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Old 08-07-2012, 07:20 AM   #15

Join Date
Oct 2005
Senior Member
bismi Llah...

Has Habib 'Umar seen such a lack of segregation? I'm not referring to the absence of barriers, but to the fact that men and women are sitting next to each other in a learning environment. I ask because this type of behaviour was troubling us, especially due to the fact that Habib's name was being used to justify this, so I asked the noble Habib. He was against the mixing of genders, and he specifically gave the learning environment as an example where no mixing of the genders should take place. In fact, al-Habib endorses the barrier, and 'complete segregation' where possible, citing the Hadith of as-Sayyidah 'A'ishah (where she says the Messenger would have prohibited women from mosque, had he seen their condition in her time. salla Llahu 'alayhi wa alihi wa sallam).

Please do think well before involving names like al-Habib 'Umar and al-Habib Ahmad Mash-hur in this. Jazakum Allahu khayran.
As Salamu Alaykum

Please think well? I happen be part of the Ba Alawi Tariqa ( i took bayya to the tariqa from Habib Umar himself in 2002 while at hajj in Madinah) and my teachers in Shafi'i fiqh were primarily graduates from Dar Al Mustafa. I am also from California and understand the Bay area very well. So you are saying that Habib Umar hasn't visited Zaytuna College and seen how they run their classes? Well he has, and has visited Taleef Collective and he praised both institutions. If he had a problem with how they are being conducted it would have been voiced and people would hear about it. Habib Umar also understands 'urf which many on this forum seem to forget thinking that the Deoband way is the only way of running things.

I'm sure you will raise similar objections to Deen Tight, the documentary about hip hop and American Muslims...yet Habib Ali al Jiffri not only approved of the documentary but also helped finance it through Tabah. The director Mustafa Davis also studied in Tarim and he was encouraged by Habib Umar to continue directing and making movies.

I know this because he is a good friend of mine and one our cities was part of Habib Umar's tour to the USA.

If you have a problem with Zaytuna college or Taleef talk to the organizers about it. Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, Shaykh Tahir Anwar, Shaykh Abdullah bin Hamid, Imam Zaid Shakir and others understand the ahkam and also understand the big picture when it comes to 'urf and other aspects. The fact they allowed such things shows that either there is clear ikhtilaf on this issue. Had it been clear cut as all of you say there would be no disagreement. Imam Zaid is a Shafii, Sh Taha Anwar a Hanafi, Shaykh Abdullah a Maliki.

I'm quite fed up with this whole accusation of American Islam being "Watering down the deen." the Deoband minhaj isnt the end all be all of what Islam is. It works in the indian subcontinent and in pakistan and other places and it originated as a response to British Colonialism and Christian missionaries. Again Islam is not culturally predatory requiring one to totally annihilate one's culture, but the truth the matter is one can retain one's culture as long as it doesnt contradict clear dictates of shariah and every culture around the world has done that. For example clothing...if your native clothes covers one's awra isnt tight, isnt from illicit material like silk or gold or what not, its mubah to wear. So wearing Western clothes is not blameworthy, especially if you were born and raised in the west. Dr. Abdul Hakim Jackson, also a Maliki and an academic says muslims confuse between non muslim and unislamic.

And one of the conditions of a mufti giving fatwa to an area is he knows the society, culture and area he is living in. That is why Zaytuna was created, to train American Muslims who understand the society that they are living in.

I have nothing more to say on this. So say whatever you are going to say. All i know is a Maliki mufti Shaykh Salek lives in the Bay Area, many ulama have visited Zaytuna College and havent raised anything. I'll stick to their scholarship over rigidity of some groups who are short-sighted and ignorant of the issues we face here in America. i also happen to know some of the students who study at Zaytuna college. If something actually haram was happening whether it be in the classes or social events they would have said something.
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