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**glazgoR@** · 11-15-2010, 10:19 PM

RCSCWC,

Puranas were written after 500 BC and majorly after 3rd century AD. No matter what the dating is, it might be a good idea to keep in mind that indians were imaginative writers.

Some speculations are:

1) The story of Bali being ousted by Vishnu in the guise of a dwarf brahmin was created during the Kadamba dynasty. Mayurasharma, a brahmin was the founder of the Kadamba dynasty. He created tall tales regarding his own origin, some examples are here: OurKarnataka.com: History of Karnataka: Kadambas of Banavasi Mayura Sharma (who took the name Mayura Varma) defeated (and exiled) the Brihad Banas.

2) Historically, the Brihad Banas were a confederation of cheiftains who elected a monarch from themselves. So they were a 'democracy' of sorts. The terms Bana and Bali appear to have applied to all of the chieftains. One ruler named Vishnuvardhana IV, defeated a particular Bali. It is speculated that this Vishnuvardhana fashioned himself as an incarnation of Krishna and created the story of Bali's ouster.

There are strange unclear links between brihad-charanam (brahacharanam) with the armies of brihad-banas. The brihadbanas supposedly considered themselves 'brahma-rayars'. It is said that Vishvanatha Nayak claimed to be descended from a bana chieftain and called himself a brahmin or a brahmakshatriya, but there is no conclusive proof for all of these yet (am in pursuit of the search though). It is also somewhat strange that the mukkanis claim to be doorkeepers of skanda and shiva shrines just as some banas.

3) Not only in Kerala, a festival for Bali used to be common in Maharastra and Karnataka too (all along the west coast). While Bali was famous in north-west and west, his son Bana seems to have been popular in north-east india. There are some very vague and unclear links between the old Banas and the Banawali seals of Haryana. The banawali seals are supposedly associated with some old 'industries'. IMO, the Banas were a very large confederation of various tribes spread across India.

4) Bali was the son of Indra and Aruni (who some claim to be Aditi)...Btw, Indra seems to have consorted anybody. Anyways, Bali was called Indrasena. Am told there is an entire list (perhaps concocted) to show that pandavas / kurus descended from Bali.

5) Since the term Bali was applied to an entire group of people, there are quite a few characters also called Bali. Hanuman was also called maha-bali. Some say hanuman was called vrisha-kapi.

6) Since Bali descended from Aruni, it is claimed that the balis and banas were supposedly adityas, not daityas. Perhaps they were defeated and demoted as daityas.

All the above are speculations. All to be taken with an ounce of salt.

Regards.

11-15-2010, 10:19 PM	#2
glazgoR@ Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 529 Senior Member	RCSCWC, Puranas were written after 500 BC and majorly after 3rd century AD. No matter what the dating is, it might be a good idea to keep in mind that indians were imaginative writers. Some speculations are: 1) The story of Bali being ousted by Vishnu in the guise of a dwarf brahmin was created during the Kadamba dynasty. Mayurasharma, a brahmin was the founder of the Kadamba dynasty. He created tall tales regarding his own origin, some examples are here: OurKarnataka.com: History of Karnataka: Kadambas of Banavasi Mayura Sharma (who took the name Mayura Varma) defeated (and exiled) the Brihad Banas. 2) Historically, the Brihad Banas were a confederation of cheiftains who elected a monarch from themselves. So they were a 'democracy' of sorts. The terms Bana and Bali appear to have applied to all of the chieftains. One ruler named Vishnuvardhana IV, defeated a particular Bali. It is speculated that this Vishnuvardhana fashioned himself as an incarnation of Krishna and created the story of Bali's ouster. There are strange unclear links between brihad-charanam (brahacharanam) with the armies of brihad-banas. The brihadbanas supposedly considered themselves 'brahma-rayars'. It is said that Vishvanatha Nayak claimed to be descended from a bana chieftain and called himself a brahmin or a brahmakshatriya, but there is no conclusive proof for all of these yet (am in pursuit of the search though). It is also somewhat strange that the mukkanis claim to be doorkeepers of skanda and shiva shrines just as some banas. 3) Not only in Kerala, a festival for Bali used to be common in Maharastra and Karnataka too (all along the west coast). While Bali was famous in north-west and west, his son Bana seems to have been popular in north-east india. There are some very vague and unclear links between the old Banas and the Banawali seals of Haryana. The banawali seals are supposedly associated with some old 'industries'. IMO, the Banas were a very large confederation of various tribes spread across India. 4) Bali was the son of Indra and Aruni (who some claim to be Aditi)...Btw, Indra seems to have consorted anybody. Anyways, Bali was called Indrasena. Am told there is an entire list (perhaps concocted) to show that pandavas / kurus descended from Bali. 5) Since the term Bali was applied to an entire group of people, there are quite a few characters also called Bali. Hanuman was also called maha-bali. Some say hanuman was called vrisha-kapi. 6) Since Bali descended from Aruni, it is claimed that the balis and banas were supposedly adityas, not daityas. Perhaps they were defeated and demoted as daityas. All the above are speculations. All to be taken with an ounce of salt. Regards.
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