Bwaha - ha ha ha - The beginning of the END Of BUSH! [Archive]

JAG

10-28-2005, 10:55 PM

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Fitzgerald_expands_probe_believes_he_can_1028.html

Fitzgerald expands probe, believes he can get Rove on more serious charges, lawyers say

Jason Leopold

In one of the boldest moves yet in the 22-month investigation into the outing of a covert CIA agent to a handful of top reporters covering the White House, Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is extending his probe and pursuing much more serious charges against senior White House officials, specifically President Bush’s Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove, lawyers directly involved in the case told RAW STORY Friday.

While many people were left confused by news reports that said Rove wouldn't be indicted Friday, the lawyers said that Rove remains under intense scrutiny and added that Fitzgerald is betting on the fact that he can secure an indictment against Rove on charges of perjury, obstruction of justice, the misuse of classified information, and possibly other charges, as early as next week.

“This investigation is not yet over,” one of the lawyers in the case said. “You must keep in mind that people like Mr. Rove are still under investigation. Rather than securing an indictment on perjury charges against Mr. Rove Mr. Fitzgerald strongly believes he can convince the grand jury that he broke other laws.”
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The lawyers said that in the past month Fitzgerald has obtained explosive information in the case that has enabled him to pursue broader charges such as conspiracy, and civil rights violations against targets like Rove. Specifically, the lawyers said Fitzgerald is focusing on phony intelligence documents that led to the outing of Valerie Plame Wilson’s identity: the documents that claimed Iraq was attempting to purchase yellow-cake uranium from Niger.

A court filing posted on Fitzgerald’s website last week was the first such confirmation that the prosecutor has in fact decided to pursue the broader claims that intelligence the Bush administration used to build support for the Iraq war was flawed and, as a result, the reason many officials inside and outside of the White House went out of their way to out Plame, whose husband was a vocal critic of the Iraq war who was sent on a mission to Niger to investigate allegations that Iraq had attempted to buy Niger from the African country.

"On August 12 and August 20, 2004, grand jury subpoenas were issued to reporter Judith Miller and her employer, the New York Times, seeking documents and testimony related to “conversations between Miller and a specified government official occurring between on or about July 6, 2003 and on or about July 13, 2003, concerning Valerie Plame Wilson (whether referred to by name or by description) or concerning Iraqi efforts to obtain uranium.” the filing made by Fitzgerald last year states.

NATO sources told United Press International Monday that Fitzgerald's team of investigators has sought and obtained documentation on the forgeries from the Italian government.

This claim, which made its way into President Bush's State of the Union address in January, 2003, was based on falsified documents from Niger and was later withdrawn by the White House."

Fitzgerald will draw on another grand jury that is already empaneled. Federal law says that a grand jury’s term cannot be extended more than once, which is the case with the grand jury that has been hearing testimony in the case.

STORM SHADOW

10-29-2005, 02:31 PM

As of today... I guess you're wrong. Rove and President Bush are safe

bwahahahahahaha!

SS

JJ Insane1

10-29-2005, 03:56 PM

As of today... I guess you're wrong. Rove and President Bush are safe

bwahahahahahaha!

SS

Well... consider this is a " two year" investigation....

You never run down to fuck one - You WALK down and fuckem all!

There time is coming... and you know it.
(As of 2 days ago Libby was "safe" as well .... bwahahahahah )

JJ Insane1

STORM SHADOW

10-29-2005, 06:48 PM

Well... consider this is a " two year" investigation....

You never run down to fuck one - You WALK down and fuckem all!

There time is coming... and you know it.
(As of 2 days ago Libby was "safe" as well .... bwahahahahah )

JJ Insane1

Consider the matter closed. Trust me on this. This shit is nothing new. Everybody said the samething during President Reagan's, Bush's, Clinton's admin... "they are going down man!" they never did.

SS

JJ Insane1

10-29-2005, 08:21 PM

Consider the matter closed. Trust me on this. This shit is nothing new. Everybody said the samething during President Reagan's, Bush's, Clinton's admin... "they are going down man!" they never did.

SS

You might pretend to consider it closed.... but hey man, watch the news... the rest of America & government hasnt closed shit...

Also... this aint "Reagan's, Bush's, Clinton's admin" - we are in a totally different ballgame with the George Jr admin... We are not talking about a blowjob here... its WAR CRIMES..... TREASON AND MURDER.... 2000 Americans and counting ..... Oh lets not forget all the "free" DEAD Iraqi women and children whom ALL died under PROVEN FAULTS ACCUSATIONS to start the ILLEGAL war we are LOOSING.

BTW... just today - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9856550/
Man.. thats 11 (altogether) more AMERICANS in two days who died for NOTHING.
Yeah... we are winning alright. Winning what?

JJ Insane1

BigBoyJ

10-29-2005, 09:24 PM

Nobody's gonna touch Bush. You can't touch the Bush. Of course when he ISN'T impeached or charged with war crimes it's gonna be because he orchestrated a plot to escape the charges. And his political manuevering, money and power will once again make him untouchable. I tell ya, for an idiot he sure is smart...right, JJ.;)

JJ Insane1

10-29-2005, 10:30 PM

STORM SHADOW

10-30-2005, 01:53 AM

US Presidents are untouchable...sorry... that goes for all of them...dem or rep.

Next..just so you understand...even the libs know this is the most powerful admin in the history of the USA. President Bush is surrounded by Reagan's men...his dad's men.. and his men... and all the most powerful CEO/execs in the world. Trust me..he's not going down for anything.

And no...I don't believe he's a criminal. President Clinton usurped the authority of the Judicial Branch and tipped the balance of power in favor of the exec branch... not good. It should be balanced between all three branches.... any Constitutional Authority understands this too. You can say it's all about sex you want... you fell into the trap 'THEY' wanted you to be in. It's all about PSYOP... you've been PSYOPed.

SS (trained by the US Army in PSYOP)

BigBoyJ

10-30-2005, 02:17 AM

[QUOTE=BigBoyJ] And his political manuevering, money and power will once again make him untouchable. QUOTE]

ANYONE - and i mean ANYONE is "touchable".

Ask John Gotti - Ask Pablo Escobar - ask Hitler - Hmmm... they all had more money and just as much (corrupt) power as Bush... and guess what?
They all got "touched".

Its only a matter of time.... the tides are turning and not in Ol Georges favor my friend.

(at least you admitted he is a criminal and has enough money and power to avoid being "touched" for a while )

JJ Insane1

Ok, just to clarify, I was being sarcastic.:D

JJ, I still wonder at what point will you admit you were wrong. I mean, if Bush isn't impeached and charged for war crimes, at what point will you stop saying "You will all see the truth eventually". Will it be in twenty years, fifty years...ever? That's the problem with your type of thinking, you can never admit defeat. If things don't happen the way you thought they would, there's just another conspiracy theory to explain why. At least with guys like Storm and myself, if we're wrong, there's no arguing it....I'm still waiting to be proven wrong though...about ANYTHING!

BigBoyJ

10-30-2005, 03:31 AM

He is crooked and Im with JJ here....you guys
are just tricked into beleiving this glassy eyed CRAZY old guy
looking to make his way into the history books.

I hope he gets what he desrves in the end, He can trick you two
but not the Man upstairs...he will pay for what hes done IMHO
maybe not in the legal system but for the rest of his miserable old life:(

Hey, you're supposed to be impartial.:p The man upstairs must be proud of Bush if you ask me. Putting an end to partial birth abortions, outlawing gay marriage, stopping a dictator from torchering his citizens, fighting to keep God in the government. I don't know man, sounds like a pretty good Christian to me. Of course, some people had to be sacrificed for the greater good, but God knows this has to happen. Or....maybe you weren't talking about God, maybe you meant Allah. If that's who you meant by the man upstairs, then yeah, Bush is screwed.;)

STORM SHADOW

10-30-2005, 11:42 AM

Ok... I'll clear up the conspiracies.... it's all true! all of it!

President Bush is actually involved in opening more abortion clinics... in fact he has a coat hanger made of gold on his desk.

He attacked Iraq because he's trying to Christianize the country...he secretly has a Pope fetish.

He has a weather machine in the basement of the White House and is cleaning out the South, sort of like doing laundry.

He also has a weapon in the basement of the WH with 'Gaydar' technology. His ultimate plan is to turn everybody gay so that we stop breading and populating the earth. He's part of the end of the race club.

:rolleyes:

SS

JJ Insane1

10-30-2005, 04:15 PM

he secretly has a Pope fetish.

SS

Fact is, he has NOT done anything to STOP abortion - he has done NOTHING to stop guy people - he has done NOTHING to help the homeless - he has done nothing to better our children’s education system - he has done NOTHING to better the FAILING social security system - he has done NOTHING but spend OUR TAX dollars on a ILLEGAL war!

We are at a ALL TIME national deficit high because of this shit eating war based on TOTAL LIES.
That money could have been used RIGHT HERE IN THE USA to better our own fucking country!
No... instead we get to use it to kill THOUSDANDS of innocent women and children in Iraq... and while we are at it we get 2000 of out own young men and women killed in the process! For what? NOTHING more then OIL.
People can argue all day... but what i just typed are all FACTS.

Tell me straight faced that the TRILLION dollars spent on this war is WORTH it to AMERICA? Sure... it might be worth it to ISREAL - or those who line there pockets from all the big money deals that happen over there... (Halliburton - Oil sales ect) but it has in NO WAY made the USA a safer place.. and it has in NO WAY give us one single benefit!
PERIOD!

Now.. as for SS pope comment -
If you remember correctly the pope CONDEMED the war - and was TOTALLY against it. I can post the links to his speech and quotes if you don’t seem to want to believe that.

JJ Insane1

BigBoyJ

10-30-2005, 05:29 PM

Well, Bush is protestant, so who gives a shit what the pope thinks. Catholic opinions mean nothing to a protestant. Catholocism is just a combination of Roman pegan religion and Christianitity. In other words, it don't mean crap. But that's a whole different debate.

Yes, JJ. Bush DID stop partial birth abortion. HE signed the bill to make it illegal. And if he had his way, all types of abortion would be totally illegal. Even he doesn't have the power to do that though.

And yes, he did outlaw gay marriage....forever. Homos CAN NOT be legally married in America....ever.

As for the educational system, maybe if some fuckin' parents would get involved in their kids school systems and ONCE AGAIN stop expecting the government to take care of everything, then maybe schools would improve. You don't need a computer with internet access at every desk to have a good educational system. It's hard for the government to do a whole lot at schools if the parents don't do shit to take care of their kids at home. When you've got a school full of undisciplined little assholes ruining the school systems, don't blame the government.

STORM SHADOW

10-30-2005, 07:54 PM

JAG

10-30-2005, 11:21 PM

And yes, he did outlaw gay marriage....forever. Homos CAN NOT be legally married in America....ever.

Actualy he has not. There has been no constitional admendment, which is the only way he can.

Hate to break it to you guys but Bush is a Liberal! :eek: The only thing conservative about him is religion.

President Bush has presided over more government expansion any recent president. Here are a few highlights:

The education bill expands federal involvement in education. The administration originally argued that the new spending was a necessary price to get vouchers and other reforms. Yet the final bill boosted spending and was stripped of almost all reform initiatives. And there is every reason to believe that this new spending will be counter-productive, like most other federal money spent on education in the past 40 years. Children and taxpayers are the big losers.

The farm bill is best characterized as a bipartisan orgy of special interest politics. Making a mockery of the Freedom to Farm Act, the new legislation boosts farm spending to record levels. Old subsidies have been increased and new subsidies created. Perhaps worst of all, the administration no longer has the moral credibility to pressure the European Union to reform its socialized agricultural policies. Taxpayers and consumers are the big losers.

The protectionist decisions on steel and lumber imports make free traders wish Bill Clinton were still president. These restrictions on world commerce have undermined the productivity of U.S. manufacturers by boosting input prices and creating massive ill will in the international community. American products already have been targeted for reciprocal treatment. Consumers and manufacturers are the big losers.

The campaign finance law is an effort to protect the interests of incumbent politicians by limiting free speech rights during elections. The administration openly acknowledged that the legislation is unconstitutional, yet was unwilling to make a principled argument for the Bill of Rights and fair elections. Voters and the Constitution are the big losers.

New health care entitlements are akin to throwing gasoline on a fire. Medicare and Medicaid already are consuming enormous resources, and the burden of these programs will become even larger when the baby boom generation retires. Adding a new prescription drug benefit will probably boost spending by $1 trillion over 10 years. A mandate for mental health coverage will drive up medical costs, making insurance too expensive for many more families.

80 Billion Pork-Barrel Power Bill also known as 1,700-page Energy Policy Act of 2005. Filled with hundreds of pages of corporate welfare, symbolic gestures, empty promises, and pork-barrel projects. All in the name of increasing energy supplies, reducing energy prices, and curtailing oil imports, the bill does little but transfer wealth from taxpayers to well-connected energy lobbies.

JJ Insane1

10-31-2005, 02:37 AM

Actualy he has not. There has been no constitional admendment, which is the only way he can.

Hate to break it to you guys but Bush is a Liberal! :eek: The only thing conservative about him is religion.

President Bush has presided over more government expansion any recent president. Here are a few highlights:

The education bill expands federal involvement in education. The administration originally argued that the new spending was a necessary price to get vouchers and other reforms. Yet the final bill boosted spending and was stripped of almost all reform initiatives. And there is every reason to believe that this new spending will be counter-productive, like most other federal money spent on education in the past 40 years. Children and taxpayers are the big losers.

The farm bill is best characterized as a bipartisan orgy of special interest politics. Making a mockery of the Freedom to Farm Act, the new legislation boosts farm spending to record levels. Old subsidies have been increased and new subsidies created. Perhaps worst of all, the administration no longer has the moral credibility to pressure the European Union to reform its socialized agricultural policies. Taxpayers and consumers are the big losers.

The protectionist decisions on steel and lumber imports make free traders wish Bill Clinton were still president. These restrictions on world commerce have undermined the productivity of U.S. manufacturers by boosting input prices and creating massive ill will in the international community. American products already have been targeted for reciprocal treatment. Consumers and manufacturers are the big losers.

The campaign finance law is an effort to protect the interests of incumbent politicians by limiting free speech rights during elections. The administration openly acknowledged that the legislation is unconstitutional, yet was unwilling to make a principled argument for the Bill of Rights and fair elections. Voters and the Constitution are the big losers.

New health care entitlements are akin to throwing gasoline on a fire. Medicare and Medicaid already are consuming enormous resources, and the burden of these programs will become even larger when the baby boom generation retires. Adding a new prescription drug benefit will probably boost spending by $1 trillion over 10 years. A mandate for mental health coverage will drive up medical costs, making insurance too expensive for many more families.

80 Billion Pork-Barrel Power Bill also known as 1,700-page Energy Policy Act of 2005. Filled with hundreds of pages of corporate welfare, symbolic gestures, empty promises, and pork-barrel projects. All in the name of increasing energy supplies, reducing energy prices, and curtailing oil imports, the bill does little but transfer wealth from taxpayers to well-connected energy lobbies.

Very well made points... Now... come on Bushs sheep... lets debunk these facts..... this should be interesting.
JJ Insane1

STORM SHADOW

10-31-2005, 03:01 AM

Hate to break it to you....but he's not a liberal. He really is a Conservative... and just like liberals...they both expand Gov't. It's Machievellie's rule. The difference is...where they expand it.

Typically the left expands it in favor of the individual which makes them lazy and dependant on Gov't... the Conservative expands it in favor of business growing the economy forcing the individual to earn what they want. You guys are trying to con the wrong person.. I'm in the know.

SS

JJ Insane1

10-31-2005, 03:56 AM

Seems the "mood" at the white house is not so "chirpy" these days...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9865902/site/newsweek/

Hmmm... it only takes one thread to unravel and entire sweater. Looks like some people in washington are going to get a little cold this winter.

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

10-31-2005, 04:01 AM

Seems we are doing a GREAT job in Iraq ... ya know, that constitution thingy?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8714527/

Whada ya know... imagine loosing your rights? Yep... you can tell America is taking over... loosing your rights goes along with the territory.

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

10-31-2005, 04:04 AM

Great to know everyone is loving the NEW president and company in Iraq!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9856550/

Man they are SO appreciative over there arent they?

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

10-31-2005, 04:07 AM

After such a successful war... (Didnt Bush claim victory in his speech on the Aircraft carrier media hyped photo show over 2 or so years ago?)

Well... just today i found this ..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9818130/

Man, and i thought we won already! Jesus i think i have been duped.

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

10-31-2005, 04:10 AM

We must send more troops to Iraq for what reason? Oh... yeah it must be a chance for them to celebrate the VICTORY of the war we ....hmmm are winning?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9067227/

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

10-31-2005, 04:13 AM

We won the war remember? We toppled the statue of Saddam right? That was our "symbol" of victory... along with the aircraft carrier media show right?

Hmmm... if thats so, why do we need this 3 fucking years later?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9841169/

Oh... i understand, we are sending more troops over there because its such a NICE place to live now... after all its FREE right?

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

10-31-2005, 04:18 AM

Hmm.. we won the war. We set all those Iraqies free... we gave them a fresh new country... but....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9796021/

I dont think the "insurgency" got the memo from the white house claiming the war was already won?

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

10-31-2005, 05:09 AM

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/trickortreat.jpg

More - Booga bogga but instead of warning of terrorist "booga booga" i found that ....
The Count - The Hunchback and Frankenstein are still among us!
JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

10-31-2005, 05:17 AM

Great to know Bush still has succsessful "fundraisers" hu?

http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=4047813

Oh my - how can this be? Oh.. i know, the CIA didnt inform Bush of this happening so... its someone elses fault.
Yeah... thats it! It was Tom Noe's fault!

Suuure ;)

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

10-31-2005, 03:24 PM

Lets debate here!

I just posted 8 links to RECENT news about the BUSH admin and there war for OIL... every single link is a FACT ... and every single link is BAD for the Bush admin..

So.. i ask, where in the news can you find something RECENT that is positive towards your boy BUSH or the WAR?

(SS - please save me the "20 years from now" speech on how "great" Iraq will be... it takes "time" to build a "free" domcracy... Psssssfff)

20 years from now we will be gone with nothing accomplished and another IDIOT like Saddam will be ruling that country and guess what... the "operation Iraq freedom" will make Vietnam look like a fucking walk in the park!.

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

10-31-2005, 03:41 PM

Just today...
I can see how GREAT things are looking for those wonderful Iraqie people....

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/31/iraq.main/index.html

To bad - cause its not looking so great for those 6 Americans now is it?
Now lets take this into perspective…
That’s 6 dead… now today 6 mothers and 6 fathers get to tell 6 grandmothers and 6 grandfathers that there grandchildren just died for NOTHING.
There child will not be coming home this year for Christmas… no more thanksgivings, no more watching there OWN children grow up… just DEATH.

Bush can take great pleasure in knowing…. 12 parents and 12 grandparents lost there child for eternity over a battle for POWER and CORRUPTION and MONEY.

You know, maybe you could justify a soldiers death in a war if it was really a battle to protect there own… meaning the USA… but how can you honestly sit and think… wow my child just died while trying to “free” a 3 world country that gives 2 shits about us?
As a matter of a fact… that same country he just died in – HATES him for even being there.
If our soldiers where battling a war to protect the US from harm.. I would understand but that is not the case here. Iraq has never been a threat to the US… and as a matter of a fact with all the hate we have bread into the place…. And all the terrorist we have caused to breed there….. we are NOW more at danger then when Saddam was in power.
Fucking stupid ass Bush administration.

(Yeah I said BUSH… so please save me the “Congress decides war” bullshit … I am sure Congress does but what do you expect when they are told a shit load of LIES from a “trusted” ruthless dictator in order to get HIS war for oil)

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

10-31-2005, 03:48 PM

Just today-

Here are 40 free and happy new citizens of Iraq! All are free... some women, some children... none insurgents! The only problem... they are all DEAD!

http://p236.news.mud.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051031/ts_nm/iraq_qaim_dc_1

"At the hospital, doctor Ammar al-Marsoumi said he believed 40 civilians were killed and 20 wounded; rescuers were still trying to remove bodies from the rubble, he added.

Mohammad al-Karbouli, a local tribal leader said: "There are no insurgents in this area, they are all harmless families.""

"A local hospital doctor in the Iraqi town of Qaim said 40 people were killed and 20 wounded, many of them women and children,"

Whoooo! Let the FREEDOM bell RING!

JJ Insane1

BigBoyJ

10-31-2005, 05:53 PM

JJ Insane1

10-31-2005, 06:11 PM

JJ, wasn't it YOU who is always saying that our media is a controlled media? Why is it when you find something you like, you post links from those news networks? Why is it when they say something you DON'T like, then all of a sudden it's a government controlled network? Once again, JJ, you take credibility away from yourself when you post that stuff. Either stick with the conspiracy websites and stay away from the controlled media, or quit calling the news networks "controlled". I don't even think you believe what you write sometimes. If you did, you wouldn't be so confused as to keep contradicting yourself.

And Jag, the constitutional ammendment has been written, just not voted on yet. Maybe I did jump the gun a little;) . But, I don't doubt that it will pass. When it comes to homosexuality, most people do seem to still have enough sense to believe that gays shouldn't be married.

Yes i did say the media is CONTROLLED... and IT IS.
Sure you do still see bad news... just not REAL NEWS.
I didnt say they control the media and make the USA look like a bowl of roses... they control the REAL news from being viewed.
Sure, they do report reality... and as we all know, blood sells and reality is bloody.
What is controlled is the FACTS that surround the presidents LIES and manipulation for this war for oil.
They dare say anything "negative' toward Bush... other then the OBVIOUS.
Show me ONE USA based paper or media source that will do a story on how George dodged the war (Dan Rather tried and you see where it got him).... on how Bush used the Downing street memos to get the war started... or how Bush is straight up going back on his word... saying if Rove was part of the "cia leak" then he would personally fire him.
Why isn’t the media hovering over these stories like a flock of hungry vultures?
They KNOW BETTER. They like to eat… they like there jobs, they don’t want to go from evening news anchor man or woman to mob janitor over night.

Where are those stories? Sure if some senator stands up and says something toward Bush... they will no doubt publish it... because its the senators views and not the "stations".
They have no BALLS... they know if they directly attack the president then they loose there jobs... or even worse GO TO JAIL.

After all it was Bush who said - QUOTE - " If your not with us then your against us" .... meaning you cant have your OWN mind or opinions, you either have HIS or your a terrorist. Now.. that is a direct quote and that shows you how much FREEDOM you do not have in the “land of the free” … think his way or the highway!

BBJ - How do i contradict my self? You think i dont believe what i type? Well if i didnt believe it i wouldn’t type it but to make things more simple ..... i believe what i "choose" .. (common sense and reality) to believe ...... you believe what your TOLD to believe… faults truth and lies – and why do you believe these things? Because ‘THEY” said it’s the truth and in your world… surely “THEY” wouldn’t lie to lil ol YOU would they? After all they are the Government – isn’t that the same as God speaking?
Maybe in your world… but not in mine.

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

10-31-2005, 06:36 PM

[QUOTE=BigBoyJ] - Once again, JJ, you take credibility away from yourself when you post that stuff'"

Oh.. btw - What "credibility" am i suppose to have? I am a simple person, with my OWN views... my OWN opinions. I have NO credibility? I am not a big time government coverup artist... i am not a ABC - NBC journalist. I am simply ME.
The things i post have "credibility". The links i send you... have "credibility".
I am just a carrier of "credibility".

Where my friend is your "credibility" in what you type?
Does your credibility come from the fact that you seem to push everything the government sells you?
Just because they are the "government" and they say it... means it makes YOU credible?

Come on bro... as you can see they are allot of people NOT seeing it your way.
So.. does that mean, just because they don’t see it YOUR way they are no longer credible?

See... once again my "character or credibility" gets attacked instead of trying to defend what FACTS i just presented.... i just posted 8 or 9 links to recent negative happening that you CANT seem to follow up with a positive outcome or
explanation or "excuse' to, so the obvious and simple thing to do is attack me personally. Thats typical.

JJ Insane1

JAG

10-31-2005, 07:15 PM

Hate to break it to you....but he's not a liberal. He really is a Conservative... and just like liberals...they both expand Gov't. It's Machievellie's rule. The difference is...where they expand it.

What definition of conservative do you use? Conservatives what smaller government that has less regulation which in turn helps the private sector. Name the last republican that expaned governmaent at this rate?

Typically the left expands it in favor of the individual which makes them lazy and dependant on Gov't... the Conservative expands it in favor of business growing the economy forcing the individual to earn what they want. You guys are trying to con the wrong person.. I'm in the know.

Some of the biggest expenditures from this president fall into the " in favor of the individual which makes them lazy and dependant on Gov't"

There are many true conservatives that feel the same way as I and it is starting to effect Bush. His own base is starting to question his policies.

JJ Insane1

10-31-2005, 07:28 PM

Just today -
Our wonderful senators voted to raise the minimum wage right here in the USA! Oh boy - you mean we get a break ?:eek:

Nope - not at all..... read on...:mad:

http://www.wesh.com/helenthomas/5183628/detail.html

Quote - "All the Democrats voted for the wage boost. All the negative votes were cast by Republicans"

Quote - "During the same period since 1997, raises that the Senate has given itself bolstered senatorial pay by $28,000 a year,"

Republicans? Isnt that Bush's boys? Well i be damned... it is!

Rich get richer - poor get dicked. Its the USA way!

Come on SS - BBJ - this is just GREAT isnt it? It will be interesting to see how you defend these actions.... Hmmmm :confused:

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

10-31-2005, 09:37 PM

Hail to "George W. President"
Words by George W. Bush, 2000-03
Arranged by John McCutcheon

These are direct quotes from GWB over the past years.... Jeeezzz

Well, I was born in west Texas, pretty near California,
Far away from Dad's home in D.C.
Well, I'm talking about myself, and they're talking about myself,
All of us are talking about me.

Now, some may retort, "Personal attacks.
"Take the high horse and claim the low road.
But I am not a revengeful person;
I'll simply respond with this ode.

When I delivered the State of the Budget address,
I offered up a question or two.
How can a man still put food on his family?
Will the toll booth to the middle class become more few?

No, it's time to make the pie higher.
This idea is sure to resignate.
This is no time to be subliminable -
It's time to unificate.

You see, when there's more trade, there's more commerce,
And we'll bring this solution to an end -
Even if your business is hispanically owned,
Whether you speak French or Mexican.

We're working for a hopefuller country,
No longer balkanized.
Where humans and fish can coexist,
And each act civilized.

I think we can all agree that the past is over,
But still we're held hostile everywhere.
These days we don't know who they are,
But we certainly know that they're there.

No longer inoculated by the mistakes of the past,
With a foreign-handed foreign policy,
We'll keep good relations with Kosovoans and Grecians,
And avoid emotionality.

Now, we all know that reading is the basics of learning,
And learning . . . well, I forget the rest.
But teach a child to read and he or her
Will pass a literacy test.

So I ask you, is our children learning?
Will we tolerate failed subsidization?
Or will this be where wings take dream
And not a cufflink of federalization?

So if you're tired of the politics of polls and principles,
It's time that you joined his campaign.
See, we're looking for women who will serve this country,
And never the House will they stain.

With our basics as the faith of our faith,
Where a troop can house his family,
We'll find power to power the power of the power plants.
No, you'd best not misunderestimate me.

With every word and every breath
Our language dies a slow, sad death.
Hail to the chief, let's give him hail -
Part Yogi Berra, part Dan Quayle.

JJ Insane1

11-01-2005, 03:27 AM

Now.. i have posted plenty of fact and negative things about the BUSH admin and all are RECENT ....

Come on ... now is the time to pull some bullshit excuses out of the hat for all the posts i just slapped down.

Tell me how it wasn’t the republicans fault the minimum wage raise got shot down? I mean, they all voted against it right?

Tell me how justified those 6 (now 7) deaths that just happened are for the Americans freedom?
I mean... If the country is SO much better off and FREE then why are our troops still dropping over like flies? Hey voting that constitution thing in really helped those 7 dead soldiers today hu? Oh.. i know i know, it will - it takes time 60 or 70 years! Wow i cant wait! I bet the dead soldiers families are ecstatic in anticipation!

Tell me... how its not "there fault" they bombed a house full of civilians.... it was... a ... Uh.... intelligence fuck up... yeah that’s it! I mean, sure we just got the 325 Habula ave mixed up with 328 Habula ave - no big deal, at least they are free... dead but... yeah FREE!

Tell me how Rove is no longer in the line of fire when every single news paper in the world is reporting he is still under major investigation..... I mean, as i remember... you start with one, they start talking in order to cover there ass and then the tree crumbles... well Libby will be the first branch to break!
But.. i am sure ROVE didnt have anything to do with that CIA leak he KNEW all about! Even if he did... i am SURE Bush had... Hmmm no clue hu?
Oh... Naawwww.

Tell me Bush knew nothing about the Ohio fund raising bullshit and its all Tom Noe's fault... Oh i am sure Bush knew nothing about that! I mean it just DIRECTLY benefits.... HIM? Anyone else? Ahhh... well nope - Just him.
But, like always i am sure he was in the dark - someone else cheated for him and didnt tell him! Another intelligence fuck up hu?

Come on - tell me how the insurgency is falling apart but yet we are on track to being the worst year so far with American deaths in Iraq ... I mean, since the Insurgency is almost over thrown, then Hmmm who keeps killing our troops on a daily basis... well... even making sure to be in line of killing more this year then any other year? I guess ... its Syria doing it now? They are coming over and fighting for the insurgency so they can take a vacation?

Tell me how we are doing SO well in Iraq when we just had to send another 1500 over there... and how the 161,000 are there just for "support" of the NEW AND FREE dead Iraqis! I mean .... damn it! It must be one hell of a free place to have to send all those troops over. It seems there are more there now then DURING THE TAKEOVER - and all through the war!
Are we just sending them over there now on vacation? If the insurgency is so "weak" then... why do we need 161000 troops?

Tell you what - just do like normal and ignore all the stuff i posted and attack my "character or credibility" because you cant seem to excuse the facts that are thrown in front of you.

JJ Insane1

BigBoyJ

11-01-2005, 04:20 AM

JJ Insane1

11-01-2005, 05:06 AM

I'll try to keep it simple, JJ. YOUR credibility comes from sticking with certain sources of information and sticking to them. You can't call something government controlled and then use it to defend your arguments. THAT ruins your credibility. In other words, it makes you look a little silly. It is in this same way that you contradict yourself. You see what I mean? If you say something is all lies, then you use it to prove your "facts", then that is contradictory.

Well - either you cant read... or your just ignoring what i type.
I already told you... i have NO credibility. I am only me. The things i post DO have credibility. They are facts.
Who gives a fuck if it comes from cnn - nbc - rense.com - if its fact its fact.
I stated that ALL USA news media is CONTROLLED to the point they will NOT bring anything negative towards Bush... sure, they all show bad news because as WE ALL KNOW bad news is all the sells.
I am not contradicting anything... i find the info i need to prove a point and i prove it. Where is your "credibility? Where are the sites that boast your facts and prove what you say? I do not see you posting links that show how GREAT the war is... HOW justified the war is... how SO MANY PEOPLE ARE NOT DYING FOR NOTHNING.
So... dont talk to me about credibility. I have none... but the things i post that are FACTS do.

As for Dan Rather, the documents he used proved to be false. He lied, JJ. CBS lied. When the media DOES lie, that is the ONE INSTANCE you choose to use to defend your argument? Once again, JJ, you contradict yourself and loose credibility. And don't make up some shit that Dan Rather wasn't using false documents....he was.

Documents are fake? Who says? YOUR BUSH CONTROLLED media and government. Can you post me a site that shows the fake documents?
Who in fact can control the documents and make them fake if needed? The government.

Do you know what the fact is? The fact is.. BUSH NEVER SHOWED UP IN 1972 TO FIGHT A WAR. He ran... for what ever reason... he dodged his duty.
You can not dispute this fact..he did NOT go to war when we was called upon.
"George W. Bush - AWOL from the National Guard 1972-'73"
http://www.awolbush.com/
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=371&row=1
"CBS did not "break" this Chicken-Hawk George story; it's just that Dan Rather, with Mapes' encouragement, found his journalistic soul and the cojones, finally, after 5 years delay, to report it. Did Bush get special treatment to get into the Guard? Baby Bush tested in the 25th percentile out of 100. Yet, he leaped ahead of thousands of other Vietnam evaders because the then-Speaker of the Texas legislature sent a message to General Craig Rose, head of the Guard, to let in Little George and a few other sons of well-placed politicos."
http://homepage.mac.com/mobiusmag/babpalast.html
The fact my friend... is, George dodged his duty. He is a coward that hides behind daddys power.

Minimum wage? Who gives a shit? Do you really think that raising minimum wage helps anything? All that does is make everything else more expensive to compensate for the wage increase. It doesn't solve one fuckin' thing.

Bro - u didnt just go there? Who cares about minimum wage? THE POOR PEOPLE WHO GET PAID MINIMUM WAGE. POOOOR PEOPLE CARE.
Obviously you DONT care about poor people then do you?
If you had only ONE choice and it was to work at McDonalds to support your kids... then YOU WOULD CARE AS WELL.
Your statement on this speaks allot about your character my friend.
You think its ok for senators to give there selves 28k raises but not the poor?
Jeeezzz bro.

You wanna know why Bush's approval rate is falling? It's because the media SAYS that Bush's approval rate is falling. If the media suddenly said that Bush's approval rate is skyrocketing, then Bush's approval rate would skyrocket. Who's the real sheep here, man?

Man... what a fucking cop out! Bush's approval rating drops because... HE SUCKS and people are seeing that. Its a funny thing how all the PRO BUSH crowd (you included) used to use that little statistic to prove there man was doing a great job... but when the shit hits the fan and he is proven a fucking idiot and the approval rating drops. well...... then the "approval rating" means nothing. Its.... now controlled by ... the media you say above?
I thought the media wasn’t controlled? That alone is a contradiction on your self. Ha ha - didn’t think about that did ja. :rolleyes:

Now for your Bush quotes. Now JJ, we all say stupid things at one point or another....don't make me start pulling up some of YOUR quotes

Hey bro... feel free! Pull up anything you want and "quote" me. I could care less.... you want to know why? I AM NOT THE FUCKING PRESIDENT.
If i was... you better believe you wouldn’t hear the illiterate bullshit that come flying from his mouth. He is the fucking president for GODSAKES... i am not.
Quote me... and by doing so, you are just proving another point i made... you cant explain your point (Bush is not in fact an illiterate idiot) so you attack my character.... as i said before, thats typical

JJ insane1

STORM SHADOW

11-01-2005, 02:16 PM

I don't even know where to start. I just woke up... coffee is still brewing and finally I get a day off...4 days off like I'm supposed to and I'm not answering my phone either! So JJ... call up my work and tell them to leave me alone!

Ok... ummm BigBoy is right....course... you can't say media is controlled and then use media to make your point.

ummm as for growth of Gov't... my fault... I read what I wrote and I'm wrong.... kinda. Conservatives are for less Gov't. But there are only a handfull of us. We fall under the Republican tent which is diverse on the political spectrum... and being out numbered... the Republicans (being a tent, not a point on the political spectrum), will grow Gov't. just like the tent 'Democrat' which includes everything from liberal to socialist to commie to nazi. True... Conservatives are for less Gov't...but NOT MUCH LESS... we are not Libertarians or the extreme right>>>> anarchist (no Gov't).

There has been much talk that the Republicans have moved so far left (which is still not close to center), that the Conservatives want to break away from the tent and run their own candidate. I personally don't see this ever happening as Conservative is not close enough to center to represent diverse America.

SS

Coffee time.

JJ Insane1

11-01-2005, 04:12 PM

Ok... ummm BigBoy is right....course... you can't say media is controlled and then use media to make your point.

Ok... let me RETYPE this so we are CLEAR. I said ALL US BASED MEDIA is controlled to the point that they dare speak against Bush or his policies.
I know they show the bad side of things but thats what sells... bad shit.
Not one single US based media has dug into the fact that Bush lied to start the war... none have followed up on the downing street memos... none have ran stories of how many LIES he has spewed out... but yet we ALL know these are facts.
(No... dont give me that "intelligence breakdown" bullshit... he knew there where no WMD - Downing street proves that).
Sure the CONTROLLED media will air a story ... let say about LIBBY... but its always bias towards Bushes side.
If one single journalist aired a story about how Bush doctored the downing street memos and lied us into this war... OH .. my God they would be fired if nor JAILED the next day.
If you read foreign papers and media you will see plenty of bad shit towards Bush... because they dont loose there jobs over it.
NOW..... this being said...
Why is ok for BBJ or anyone else to use the POLL statistics when Bush is winning the approval rating.... but then when he is loosing by a great - great... might i add a... GREAT margin... BBJ all of a sudden rides the "media controlled" train claiming the media controls the polls?
Is it just a controlled media when its something AGAINST Bush... or is it controlled when its FOR Bush?
I say.. its controlled... but its "known" you just dont run things that will "hurt" the presidents ego- job ect...
Sure they will tell all day long how bad the war is going... because that is OBVIOUS... sure they will speak all day of how UNJUSTIFIED the war is.. because thats obvious.... but none will tell of how many LIES Bush told to get the UNJUSTIFIED war started.. but yet that is STILL obvious.

Get my point?

As for that conservatism.... liberalism.... conservatives... bla bla bla.... i could care less... all i see is the OBVIOUS.
Bush LIED our way into an ILLEGAL and WORTHLESS war for OIL.
As you can read on my other thread "911 Truths" ... Big A posted that the MAJORITY of the WORLD sees this exactly as i type it.... Meaning... leave the USA and see how many people think we are ruthless tyrants for invading Iraq... there are MANY.

JJ Insane1

STORM SHADOW

11-01-2005, 04:29 PM

JJ Insane1

11-01-2005, 06:15 PM

Oh sure.... the world has been so against the USA...jealous more like it... I should trust their media. bahahahahahaha
They hated us and have been against us waaaaaaaaaaaaay before President Bush took office and talked smack in their media

SS

Yeah... before this illegal war we started there might have been some jealousy of the USA.. Now... nada.
Nope... what is there to be so jealous of?
The fact we have the highest number of illegal aliens in the world migrating here? The fact we are running rapid with drugs... drug dealers... child molesters.... homeless people, poor people.... roads are all to shit... people cant afford gasoline - all our health care is going down the drain... the social security is basically shot all to hell...our education system is failing terribly…. our president enacted the "patriot act" that takes most of our rights away.... the fact that if we don’t subside to what the president believes then we are labeled "domestic terrorist"... the fact that if you get a disease and have no money then you basically DIE? The fact we can walk into any clinic and have a baby sucked out just because the mother coundnt keep her legs shut? Oh – yeah they are jealous of us because… we spend 2 months chasing steroid abusing baseball players around instead of facing the real ISSUES that are PRIORITY in this country?
The fact we can spend 1 trillion dollars on an illegal war.... while allowing 2000+ of our soldiers and hundreds and thousands of INNOCENT Iraqis to die for nothing more then oil but we cant seem to fix all the problems that i mentioned above first?
Maybe they are jealous of the fact we have a lying tyrant running our country. The fact that we can invade a 3 world country.... not accomplish shit... send 161000 troops over, 3 years later.... and still be LOOSING the war? The fact that we are going to end up leaving this 3 world country sitting on there ass while a civil war develops and we walk away with all there oil?
Hmmmm... i can go on and on... but Geeeezz that’s allot of NICE things to be jealous of hu?
Ask Big A… He lives NOT in the US and he can tell you… no one is “jealous” of the USA….. laughing at us is more like it. I would guess other countries would love to watch the USA fall apart… and that’s just what they are seeing so I am guessing your confusing jealousy with comedy.

JJ INSANE1

BigBoyJ

11-01-2005, 06:31 PM

I never once said that the media is controlled, JJ. What I said is that the media controls YOU. There's a big difference there. If anything, I think that the media LOVES to find and stir up controversy. If there were anything negative to put on Bush, it would most definitely be on the news. And what are those links you posted? Do those links look biased towards the president? One more time, JJ, you're contradicting yourself.

And like I've told you before, it takes more than you saying it's a fact to make it a fact. Just because someone writes something and you agree with it, THAT does NOT make it a fact.

Really, there's no point in arguing with you. If you don't like something, you say it's Bush controlled. If you do like something, you say it's "fact", even if it came from the same source that you JUST SAID is Bush controlled. You read something on a conspiracy website and call it "absolute proof" just because you like how it sounds.

You know the reason I don't post news links and all that shit to help prove my points? It's because I honestly don't give a shit what they say. If I did, I would be just like you...picking out what I like and calling the rest "controlled".

You have to put all of the pieces together, JJ. See both sides of the story and find the truth somewhere in the middle. You're out there, JJ....WAAAAY out there. That's all right though, I still like ya.

JJ Insane1

11-01-2005, 09:23 PM

You're out there, JJ....WAAAAY out there. That's all right though, I still like ya.

Ok - Lets forget the "you think" ... "i think" bullshit about the media.

No matter where you look.... no matter what you say. No matter what source it comes from... people want ANSWERS!
No matter what you say.... People (trust me, not just me) in the USA are pissed that we are at war in Iraq for NOTHING other then oil. What is even worse is the fact that our government (Bush Admin) lied like hell to get congress to allow the war.
You know this is fact bro... dont say... polls this, polls that. Go out and walk around your local mall... ask questions, read papers... watch news. Americans where lied to. We just spent 1 trillion dollars for nothing and allowed 2000+ of our brave young men to die while "the rich get richer" from a war based on lies.
Can you honestly argue to this point? Do you have EYES and EARS?
What is the argument you put forth to me?
You want to say i get news from this site.. from that site.... bla bla bla... but its all the SAME news and its all negative.
Where can you find me ONE SINGLE article that has a positive view of the war? Show me on reason this war is justified?
You cant.

There where no ties to Al Quada! Fact!
There where NO weapons of mass destruction! Fact!
Iraq was NEVER a direct threat to the USA! Fact!
NOTHING the war was BASED on is true!
Sure after the war is going… anyone can come up with the “well… its operation free Iraq” bullshit excuse to be there…. But congress would have NEVER passed this war if we just wanted to “free Iraq”.

LIES… LIES… LIES… DEATH … DEATH …. DEATH!

How am I “way out there”.
I just stated to you FACTS…. I didn’t cause them, I didn’t make them… so how am I “way out there”?
I am way out there because I do not believe that crock of shit excuse for war that you have been brain washed into?
Well… sorry but a lie is a lie. A fact is a fact!
How am I a conspiracy theorist? How am I way out there?
Tell me… exactly HOW CAN YOU JUSTIFY THIS WAR?

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

11-01-2005, 09:35 PM

Hey bro... it seems there are allot of people "way out there" arent they?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/01/senate.iraq.ap/index.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9886959/

Quote -
""I demand on behalf of the America people that we understand why these investigations aren't being conducted,"

=================================

Man, i am sure glad you know now... that i am NOT ALONE while i am "way out there".

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

11-02-2005, 02:24 AM

Gee check this out...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/01/senate.iraq/index.html

"Deal struck to advance investigation on prewar intelligence"

My gosh... golly geee wiz we gonna get us an investigation!

Gosh there seems to be alot of them "way out there" people around now adays!

As i stated before... the snowball effect is taking place... and the Bush is going to burn!

LIES LIES AND MORE LIES - WAR - DEATH - INVESTIGATION - CHARGES - IMPEACHMENT!

Yeahhhhh thats what i am talking about.:eek:
JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

11-02-2005, 02:27 AM

You're out there, JJ....WAAAAY out there. That's all right though, I still like ya.

BTW - With the overwhelming MAJORITY of Americans DISAPPROVING of Bush and his war..... and the MINORITY of Americans who approve - i would say i am not in the one in the "way out there" group?

JJ Insane1

BigBoyJ

11-02-2005, 03:48 AM

Like I said, JJ, Americans believe what the media tells them to. I believe that America will benefit from changing Iraq. Most people don't think long term enough to see that. Sure, a couple thousand troops have died and more will die. But, if we had left Saddam in charge and nothing was done to keep him in check, how many Americans would have died once he had his arsenal strong enough to do some damage to us. I really hope that you at least realize that Saddam really did want to destroy America. That was basically his dream. Do you really believe we should have just left him alone. Why did Saddam wait so long to allow weapons ispectors in? If there was nothing to hide, why did he wait? He would not cooperate with the UN. He was killing and torchering thousands of innocent people. If the war is based on lies, that's fine with me. If getting that oil supply under the control of an American friendly government is one of the reasons for the war, that's fine with me too.

Let's see the benefits here:

1. We get control of the oil (in a round about way) which means our economy can continue to function. If we run out of oil in America, there is no more America.

2. We get rid of a government/dictator that has been a pain in our ass for waaaay too long.

3. We create an American friendly government (eventually) and turn that country into something that WE benefit from.

4. Iraq and Afghanistan are the first countries in the Middle East to eventually become Americanized. This helps create stability in the region, so that we can go ahead and make that whole damn place something useful to us instead of a constant headache.

5. We BOOST our own economy because China and India really needed that oil too.

6. We avoid what could've turned into a HUGE attack on American soil by letting Saddam and Bin Laden cook up something HUGE to make the Sept 11 seem small.

Now what exactly are the disadvantages?

Well, sure some troops have to die, but not nearly as many as could've died if we didn't do anything. I really don't see any disadvantages.

JJ Insane1

11-02-2005, 04:20 AM

Let's see the benefits here:

1. We get control of the oil (in a round about way) which means our economy can continue to function. If we run out of oil in America, there is no more America.

2. We get rid of a government/dictator that has been a pain in our ass for waaaay too long.

3. We create an American friendly government (eventually) and turn that country into something that WE benefit from.

4. Iraq and Afghanistan are the first countries in the Middle East to eventually become Americanized. This helps create stability in the region, so that we can go ahead and make that whole damn place something useful to us instead of a constant headache.

5. We BOOST our own economy because China and India really needed that oil too.

6. We avoid what could've turned into a HUGE attack on American soil by letting Saddam and Bin Laden cook up something HUGE to make the Sept 11 seem small.

Now what exactly are the disadvantages?

Well, sure some troops have to die, but not nearly as many as could've died if we didn't do anything. I really don't see any disadvantages.
========================================================
1. Our economy is FUCKED.... and its even WORSE fucked with the 1 trillion dollar hole Bush dug with this war. Might i remind you we where in the GREEN with the national deficit before BUSH blew it into the worst ever deficit.
Also.... Oil keeps rising, gas is getting ridiculous - so Yeah... grabbing all that oil really helps the AMERICAN public.... not.
I tell you who it DOES help... the mother fuckers getting rich off of all the oil they TOOK.

2. Getting rid of a ruthless dictator? What a typical "Bush" excuse for war.
Might i remind you... no one cared to "get rid of the ruthless dictator" until the WMD excuse didnt work... then the "ties to Al Quada" didnt pan out... also "operation Iraqi freedom" didnt fly as well... so now, we did it for the greatness of humanity! PLLLLEEAASSEE ... spare me that bullshit. The GREAT USA killed more people taking over that country then Saddam has ever PROVEN to have killed. SO.. fuck that bullshit excuse.

3. Bwahahahah... AMERICAN FRIENDLY? You actually had the nerve to type that? OH... hell yeah they LOVE us over there! Thats why they KILL US EVERYDAY! Owwww man i feel the love! Thank them for all those nice road side bombs they set up for our lovely troops! What an honor.
Man... get a clue. They are NOT friendly with us and wont be. We took over there shit! They are killing there own American puppet government leaders ALREADY!

4. So... everyone must become "Americanized" in order to live on earth now? What happen to OTHER cultures? Thats kinda like Hitler isn’t it? Everyone must live like the USA or suffer the oven!
Fuck man... not EVERYONE wants to be Americanized.... If you remember, we ATTACKED them... BOTH countries and FORCED them to become Americanized... so its not like they called up asking for it right?

5. China and Inda are buying our stolen Iraq oil now? Hmmm .. let me run down the street and take my neighbors food so i can sell it to the other people who want it... no, really i will be justified because "we can Americanize" them... Man - reality is not hitting you my friend.

6. Ok... here we go again. Saddam (is proven now) had NO FUCKING way to attack the USA... he never tried. Not once. He never even threatened us.
He had NO ties to Bin Laden... (proven fact) and after the war started, we find out they are actually ENIMIES.
So...no Saddam was never a fucking threat unless you call throwing rocks at us a threat. Bin ladden? Well... he is still free right? He was blamed for 9/11 not Saddam correct? Hmmm... Let me get this right... the guy who does the act gets to live... but the guy who has the oil gets to go down?
Its not hard for the average person to see.... we had NOTHING to gain in Afghanistan... so Iraq was our object - and all for oil.
Ask anyone who is not brain washed like the MINORITY of the country who believe that shit.

Disadvantaged -Well... Jesus where do i start? First - if George had asked congress to go to war with Iraq just because "Saddam is a ruthless tyrant" then they would have laughed him out of the white house. So he had to "cook" up a reason and sell it... which he did.
Now... we have lost 1 trillion dollars of OUR tax paying money that could have been used to... guess what? Help the people RIGHT HERE IN THE USA! Not some 3rd world country that has alot of oil.
After 3 years... we are STILL LOOSING the war. We have NO exit strategy... we lost 2000+ (way more but thats all we hear about... like Vietnam) solders, over 100k a year have been permanently maimed (fact)... the entire rest of the NON American asskissing world looks at the USA as big fucking bullies.... thousands and thousands of INNOCENT - women and children in Iraq are DEAD and.. did they ask for that? No.
Did they call up George and say... he man, we need you to bomb the SHIT out of our country and take our oil so we can be like America!
I can sit here all night typing all the disadvantages but i would pretty much bet your common since can sell that one for me.

Now.. i have a question for you?
If Saddam was the ruthless leader and needed to be taken care of... if Saddam was the problem... Then why didnt we send our "elite" forces in and just kill the mother fucker? Your telling me this fuck head can post his self on TV every night and we cant get our GREAT nations elite forces in there to just kill his ass?
What was the point of the "shock and awe" hyped up crock of shit?
What was the point of killing everyone in site when we attacked?
What was the point of leveling the entire country... then using our TAX PAYER money to build it back?
What was the point of allowing all those innocent people to die when we could have just taken Saddam out and it would have been over?

Here is a hint for your HONEST answer - OIL
Get the picture?

No... you never will. Even when Bush is ousted and sitting on his ass being charged with the crimes he committed... you will be one of those die hard Bush heads.... "he was set up by the democrats" bla bla bla.
I know why... you live in Texas right? Your a good ol Texas boy like George. Yall are both cowboys. You cowboys stick together no matter what right?

Geezzz bro - you can not use any of those excuses to justify that war because without the LIES that where told to make the war it would have never have taken place.

JJ insane1

BigBoyJ

11-02-2005, 05:01 AM

JJ Insane1

11-02-2005, 03:18 PM

Once again, you're not seeing long term. Sure, right now things seem bad. In the long run though, everything will be much better and it will all be well worth it. All we can do is wait and watch, JJ. Just try not to be so focused on what is happening today. Learn to see the bigger picture. It's an investment.

Bro
You can watch all you want. If we left that country there would be the worst civil war there in the history of the world. We CANT leave now.
So... this will drag on for another 4 or 5 years and we will mount more deaths of our solders.... and after a while we will have accomplished nothing.
Another Saddam will take over as soon as we exit that place.
They DO NOT want to be AMERICANIZED .... and you cant FORCE an entire country to do as you say... so
I guess we will see - and i bet everything i own in this world - it aint gonna be pretty - its NOT going to be your "americanized" country that you speak of.

Its 3rd world and will stay that way... the only difference is we will take there oil from them for the rest of eternity.
JJ

BigBoyJ

11-02-2005, 04:53 PM

Well, we'll definitely be there longer than 4 or 5 years. And even if all we get out of it is the oil, then it will still be worth it. I don't think you realize how important that oil is. If we run out of oil WE will be the third world country.

STORM SHADOW

11-02-2005, 04:56 PM

JJ Insane1

11-02-2005, 05:56 PM

JJ I don't agree with one thing you've said. I guess BigBoy and I agree to disagree with you.

How do you know they don't want to be Americanized? why are so many moving to America from the middle east? Don't lump all the arabs into one group, that's like saying "black people this and that, whitey this and that, latino this and that" none of it being true. Give Arabs a break. The only ones causing us problems are the male generation that want the old ways. This will pass.

I don't see another Saddam taking over ever...not ever. In a short time..people will be way to used to this system we've helped them with. The Gov't will be way to powerful and bureaucratic for sudden change. Think about it...why doesn't our Gov't swing fast left or right...it's a buracracy. Set up that way on purpose to buffer fast swings in legislation etc. It also protects it from sudden swings in public opinion. Gov't is meant to be slow slow slow in a free society.

SS

Do you honestly believe "Insurgents" are terrorist? If you do... then that is why you do not see my point.
Insurgents are NOT terrorist... they are the MEN of Iraq who had everything taken away from them by American bombs and troops... they are the people who’s land we just invaded.... families we just killed.
You know what, if i was sitting here and a bomb landed on my house and killed my entire family... i would join what ever force it took to get the fuck holes who did it.
Insurgents are only fighting back for what we are trying to take... and winning i might add.
Hmmmm.. let me ask you this... where was all the insurgents before the war?
You never heard the term "insurgent" before ... but you do now.
Hmmm... seems to me they started accumulating right after the "shock and awe" hyped up bullshit.
You cant stop an enemy that is willing to die at all cost for his beliefs... but when you back that same enemy with the fact that everything they lived for is now GONE all in the name of "freedom" then you have a killer with a double edged sword that is willing to die for any amount of payback.
THAT IS UNSTOPABLE.
The USA will never win this bullshit war. It cant. You cant kill what you can see and they have no clue who is who. Hell 7 of our OWN marines where killed by insurgents dressed up as Iraqi police for Gods sake.
How do you fight that? You dont. You just lop around for 5 or 8 years... let more solders die for no reason... then leave and accomplish nothing.
We bombed Afghanistan... and within 2 months we replaced there president (leader) with one of Georges good ol buddies from Enron (OIL COMPANY).
Yes... the President of Afghanistan is a former ENRON executive and that is a fact! Now... within 2 months or less of him being sworn in, he signs a big ol deal with ....Hmmmm... The USA ... and Enron to allow a PIPELINE to be built through Afghanistan.... THESE ARE ALL FACTS! Now, with a new pipeline in place, we needed a country that was OIL RICH to pump it from... Ie... IRAQ!
The vise president of Afghanistan is also a Enron executive. FACT.
30 days blowing up Afghanistan... only 11000 troops sent there and where is Osama? FREE!
161000 troops in Iraq... and where is Osama? FREE!
Who was suppose to be the culprit of the 9/11 bullshit? Osama!
Where is he again? FREE!
IRAQ had NOTHING to do with 9/11.... nothing! Yet we spent all this time, all this money ousting someone who was NO threat to us at all (admitted by Rice and Powell before sept11) ... but the man who is responsible is still... what??? FREE!
Man... get a clue.
1 + 1 is 2.... just put it all together and watch it add up.
Its pretty simple.

JJ Insane1

STORM SHADOW

11-02-2005, 06:09 PM

JJ Insane1

11-02-2005, 07:48 PM

We will win. And the term 'Insurgent' came from a KNOWN fact that people for the Islamic cause against Satan are coming from other countries to do battle for their 72 virgins. Yes... people are stupid enough to give up their life to have 72 virgins. Sex sex sex. Wonderful religion...based on popping the cherry of a bunch of virgins. I'm not wrong on this...we did alot of stupid shit in our history based on religion. The leaders whom are impressing on the young minds of these males are having a good laugh I'm sure... but serious about their resolve to continue the fight. There's an old saying in the circus "there's a sucker born every minute"

As for installing a puppet in Afgan for our oil futures... well duhhhh lol You just don't get it! I don't have a problem with it! It's 'Modern Neo Imperialism'. Damn President Bush is a genius! The reason all other countries failed at this is because they didn't just take over...they wanted to possess the land! They wanted to be the Gov't. It's better to give the people the 'Perception' that they still possess the land and control the resources. I swear... President Bush must have been Ceasar of Rome! He's doing just what I would have done.

There's another old saying "don't blame the player...blame the game"

SS

It's chess....and so far President Bush rules the board.

Hmmmm.... lets see. If we had oil... but here very poor and ... lets say China decided one day they wanted what we had and enacted "operation America freedom" and came over and killed your entire family while you slept at night... dropping bombs on your house, your churches, hospitals ect... taking away everything you know and love all because they wanted our oil... would you agree with it then?
Would you sit and type that you agree that China needed to come take your life away while stealing your oil?
I dont know about you but that "macho" Bush is a bad ass shit doesn’t work so well with me.
If Bush was on the ground.. with a gun and grenades fighting for the OIL he is stealing then it would be another story.
He has nothing to loose.. he is already rich, he has health care (best in the world) and has a secure future.... all he is after is POWER... to be FEARED by the rest of the world.
Sooner or later he is going to piss off the wrong country and in the dead of the night, our shit is going to get blown off the map.
Please... save me the "USA is the most powerful military in the world" bullshit.... most powerful - not hardly. Most gullible... yeah.
China could kick our ass right now if they wanted to.... they have the same technology (if not better) and 3 times as many troops.
I totally disagree.... i do not think its right in ANY way to take a country over for personal gain (MONEY)... or for property (OIL) - bla bla bla....
You wouldn’t want it done to you would you?

I could care less what an insurgent believes he will get when he dies... i just know they are regular people who have lost everything and chose to fight back.... thats all. Its pretty simple.

Another question – We just took over Iraq for there oil right? I think we both agree on that at this point? Now… I “might” could justify this a “little” if we had .89 cent gas right now… but 3 years after taking all there oil… we have DOUBLE the prices we had…. Why?

Oh… about Bush and the chess game… Ha ha ha… lets see how good his game is when the investigation into his illegal war wraps up… I hate the player and I hate the game.

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

11-02-2005, 08:00 PM

Storm... just out of curiosity, how old are you? If you dont want to answer.. thats cool. I find you to be a very intelligent person, and i just wanted to ground that fact around an age?

Also... i want to make one point clear. I am not a "Anti American". I 100% back our military and those (like you) who fight for our nation and its freedom.
You guys have balls and i feel safe knowing we have the great people we do serving this country. The problem i have is with the people in charge of putting your lives in danger.
I am not "anti government". I am 100% straight up Anti Bush and adminitration!

No - i do not need to hear the "congress" makes all the decisions excuse again. Congress was LIED to.... otherwise there would be NO WAR.
Bush was the MAIN culprit behind the lies... NOT FAULTY intelligence.
Can you expect me to believe they can read your id number from the dash of your car while its moving... but they cant make the difference between some weather balloons and a nuclear missile?
Come on man... i know we are better then that.
The downing street memos PROVE Bush was "bending the truth" (Lied) in order to get his war passed through congress.
69% of America can see this... why cant you?

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

11-02-2005, 09:37 PM

I just found MORE people who are "way our there" like me! :eek:
Well... i will be damned! The MAJORITY speaks... and the MINORITY should listen......

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/02/feedback.president/index.html

(CNN) -- Just a year after President Bush won a second term in a tight election, his administration faces plummeting approval ratings and troubles including rising energy prices, an indictment at the White House and waning support for the war in Iraq.

CNN.com asked readers to pose as advisers to the president and offer suggestions for ways the administration could get back on track. Here is a sampling of those responses, sent in by e-mail. Some of them have been edited for length and clarity.

I believe Harry Truman could provide the best advice, with the simple words "The Buck Stops Here." If this administration would take responsibility for its wrongdoings, rather than placing the blame elsewhere or, worse still, forging ahead regardless of the wisdom of the decision, it would go a long way towards restoring the integrity of our government.
Drew Hunt, Normal, Illinois

Hi. I am currently serving as a U.S. soldier in South Korea. I will not bash the army or the president. But what I will suggest is to bring some of the many soldiers home from Iraq. Everyday we spend over there, more and more soldiers are dying. This is not a popular war anymore like it was after 9/11. Bush could probably save face for his presidency by showing humility to the U.S. soldiers in both Iraq and Korea and let them come home (even if they just come home for long R&R tours instead of the measly two weeks) and be with their families.
An anonymous soldier, Pyongtek, South Korea

Bush should start listening to the American people by bringing our troops home, removing Rumsfeld, appointing moderate justices, and finding Osama. As a citizen who voted for Bush in 2004, I realize it was a huge mistake.
Brent Finnell, Greenville, North Carolina

Lose the "stay the course no matter what" philosophy, and the "either you're with us or against us" mindset. It's cost them Colin Powell, and other quality people, including 2000 plus American soldiers. The Bush gang has isolated itself from the rest of the country, and a lot of the world by being a sealed unit. No matter how good you look at the beginning, eventually you have to change that suit -- it's starting to stink!
Dennis Quinn, Wonalancet, New Hampshire

The key things that I think President Bush could do: stop trying to fight the fires of the moment (i.e. the Rove/Libby deal and so forth) and actually do something versus reacting. Unfortunately, he missed a prime time with the Supreme Court nominee. I feel it should have been a person with more technology and privacy experience.
Scott Goad, Bloomfield, Indiana

Admit that you and your senior Pentagon staff made mistakes. Replace the senior Pentagon staff and develop a realistic plan to bring some of the troops home.
Lee King, Salt Lake City, Utah

Mr. Bush's (dis)approval ratings are well deserved, but if he wants to raise them he could try to show that he really cares about the middle class, and especially the poor people of this country. So far tax cuts for the wealthy, and his clear preference for corporations over people do not leave much hope for the remainder of his term.
Richard Painter, Sun Lakes, Arizona

Do something that is genuinely beneficial to the American people. Like capture Osama bin Laden, or bring the troops home from Iraq, or protect whistle blowers who report corporate crime that is in collusion with government actions of extortion.
Joshua Shakopee, Minnesota

I do not think there is a lot he can do to regain the rating he once had. I think pulling our service people out of Iraq would help but we have gotten ourselves so deep already that pulling out now would only put our country at greater risk of terroristic attacks or worse. And pulling out of Iraq now could likely lead to Saddam regaining control in Iraq.
Martha Prater, Rusk, Texas

Push legislation to regulate oil companies as public utilities -- just like electric, natural gas, and telephone companies. This would require that companies obtain regulatory approval before raising gas prices.
Andy Park, Largo, Florida

The president could do numerous things beginning with changing policies that contribute to animosities and/or hostilities directed toward our country. Stop agitating the peoples of the world by getting in bed with and supporting corrupt so-called tyrant leaders. Alternative fuels and a call for the legalization of medical marijuana and the farming of hemp for industrial uses. Wage a war on government corruption at all levels of government and ease off on at least some of the oppression against the people. Bring the troops home immediately and stop meddling in foreign affairs while this country has so much corruption of its own that it isn't even dealing with. Clean up your own back yard firstly and lead by example. Doing the right thing when you have the power to do so isn't really that hard but one firstly has to want to do the right thing.
Richard Mark Jones, Purvis, Mississippi

The president needs to remember who elected him, we the poor and middle class people.. Not Big Oil,Haliburton or any of the other big business CEO's he has been courting or paying homage too. If he gets rid of us, who will support the country then?
Sandra Crater, Milford, Illinois

In light of recent news that U.S. oil companies have set record quarterly profits the President could take a very public position and invite the CEO's of U.S. oil companies to the White House. He could use this opportunity to remind them that they have had enormous success over the years because of the blessings of the remarkable nation they are a part of. Then for the good of the country he could ask them to return the favor and help the country out by reducing gasoline prices.
Chris Denney, Oshkosh, Wisconsin

If President Bush wants to take back his presidency he should pay more attention to the wants and needs of the American people, rather than to warring factions within the Republican party. He should also take responsibility for the failings of his administration, namely Scooter Libby's implicated involvement with the Plame CIA leak and the Department of Homeland Security's inability to deal with natural disasters on American soil. He needs to remember that government is "for the people, by the people" and do his best to serve all of us.
Molly Wright, Berne, New York

I think Bush can save his office by focusing on improving domestic issues, such as the poor (Katrina), and bring our armed forces back home, address global issues that face our children such as global warming, support other energy sources for transportation, stop the growing gap dividing the rich and poor.
Teresa, Burbank, California

Mr. Bush should reach out to ALL Americans, not just his base. He displays a shocking willingness to shock the body politic by playing to the radical right. He should make good on his campaign mantra and be a uniter not a divider. If he won't give ground he will be ground into meaninglessness as we the people step over him to do what's right for the majority.
T.K. Hodgson, West Hollywood, California

Stop spending like a drunken sailor and close the borders and kick out a few million illegals. That will shake loose some jobs and raise wages because of less cheap workers Who can work for 12 to 13 bucks and have a nice car or a house.
Andrew M. Herold, Beltsville, Maryland

First, President Bush could help his approval ratings by getting off the evangelical tract! Yes, we are a Christian-founded country but all Christians are not evangelical! All others have freedom to choose their religion, or none, and he should be inclusive of all.
Cheri Windsor, Colorado

Give full true backing (no lip service) to the people that voted twice to put a man in office to gain back our country. No euthanasia, no abortion, no persecution of Christians, no judicial tyranny, no homosexual privileges, no attacks on the institution of marriage, no attacks on the family, etc.
Pedro A. Delgado, Miami, Florida
I don't think that Bush can get back on track. He is SO FAR off the mainstream track, that I think he has fallen over! He is completely out of touch with America and has no regard for the consequences of his wasteful agenda and corrupt business dealings. I just hope America can emerge in 2008 without being totally destroyed.
Jennifer, Georgetown, Delaware

BigBoyJ

11-03-2005, 06:44 AM

JJ, that last post was kind of goofy. Do you really think a few letters justify YOUR opinions? You know, if you talk to the MAJORITY of U.S. troops, they agree with what we're doing in Iraq. Now if the people who are in direct risk of losing their lives think we're doing the right thing, how can YOU say we aren't? Here in San Antonio there are several military bases. You know, I haven't met a soldier yet who thinks we should just run away from Iraq and that there's no chance of winning.

Like Storm pretty much said, JJ, the insurgents are just the last of the desperate Muslim extremists. Those dipshits think they're fighting the devil. You'd be upset too if you were suddenly losing control of the women you'd been used to owning. You make it sound like America went in there and made it a goal to wipe out children and women. That ain't the case, man. Actually, it's been pretty amazing how few civilian casualties there have been when you consider that THIS IS A WAR!!

Now your analogy about China doesn't really work. America is not Iraq and China is not America. None of the situations are the same. And if China DID invade America, China would be GONE. Sure America would probably be gone too...as for much of the rest of the world. One things for sure though, it ain't like China would just take us over.

I say, if Bush did lie to congress about the war...so what? He did what needed to be done with congress, so he could do what needed to be done in Iraq. I fuckin' hate it when a president plays puppet to congress. Good for Bush for doing what he thought was right. Still though, I do believe that there were weapons in Iraq, Saddam just got rid of them in time.

And JJ, you should stop having such sympathy for the poor troops. Do you think they don't know what they were signing up for? If you join the military, you should expect to have to fight. If a person joins the military and is totally under the impression that it's just a good way to get money for college, then that person is a dipshit. It's the MILITARY, man. Of course you should expect to fight.

STORM SHADOW

11-03-2005, 03:33 PM

I'm 44 yrs old and thank you JJ.

Congress gets the same intel the President does...sorry. They voted for the war in OUR interest...that's what we voted them in for.

Military personel join the military KNOWING the President is the CINC and the soldier cannot pick and choose his/her conflicts and decide which conflict is worth fighting for and what not. Soldiers are a pawn used at the luxury of the CINC.

Since the dawn of Western Civilization... leaders have sent young men to die for many reasons. Love, jealousy, greed, land grab, expansion, religion, etc the list is endless ... the death and destruction is endless. It's not going to stop either. As long as two leaders feel they can't get along, there will be war.

China will not invade America...we both have too much to lose...stale mate.

Try to remember that most of the countries against America over this have their OWN MOTIVES. There is always a motive and it's finding it before one believes a nation is so damn pure. Many of these countries were making a fortune off of selling weapons to Iraq, many getting oil cheap, some for religion, some because they are dictators just like Saddam and don't want America coming after them. And MOST ...because we are allies with Israel!!!!!!!!!! I shit you not...dont' believe most of these assholes overseas because they are always against America no matter what because our allie happens to be a Jewish Nation...whom all were against the US in helping Israel become a nation in the first place. If you ever go to the UN site and look at voting records...you'll find that Israel is actually the most hated Nation... USA coming in second for protecting them...sending them more money than we send any other nation, sending them weapons, intel, etc.

For President Bush to keep Israel out of this war is a miracle. Same goes for President Bush 40 whom kept Israel out of Desert Storm when Saddam was sending scuds at Israel. You don't give these two Presidents enough credit. It could have turned into WWIII had Israel decided to RIGHTFULLY retaliate.

What did we hear out of Iran recently? Israel should be wiped off the map? This is the biggest reason we are so hated and this was long before President Bush 42 took office. We were Satan for a long time. Remember...President Bush 42 was NOT in office the first time these terrorists tried to destroy the World Trade Center.

Recently on tv there is renewed investigations in McViegh and the blowing up of the Alfred P Muerra Federal Building. That Islamic Terrorists may have been involved after all.
I've always believed something else was going because...and this comes from the Inventor of the AMFO Bomb... he is the world's expert in explosives... General Pardon. He says his AMFO bomb that blew up in front of the building did NOT bring that building down. He took pictures and labeled each pillar that had a C4 exposive connected to it.
He says his AMFO bomb is what is called a low velocity explosive... C4 being a high velocity explosive. He says his bomb went off first and a split second the C4 went off on the pillars. Boulder Colorado registered two explosions. Low velocity explosions travel slow through the earth... high velocity fast. Though his bomb went off first... it hit boulder AFTER the second explosion.

Now.. understand an AMFO bomb was used in the first terrorist attack on the World Trade Center by Islamic terrorist... Interesting...they used an AMFO bomb. It was in a van parked right next to a pillar. Blew the floor above and below out..but even though right next to a pillar...only cracked it.
Understand what's going on here?
McVeigh's AMFO bomb was in front of the building..not next to a pillar.
Next... AMFO bombs just make a big boom General Pardon says.
General Pardon goes on further...in his photos that he labeled where the C4 was... the concrete is pulverized several feet in both directions and the rebar is sheered clean. He states that only C4 does that. Sheered clean...remember that.

SS

Anyway... President Bush was not in office and the country was just as hated the first time the World Trade Center was attacked.

JJ Insane1

11-03-2005, 06:25 PM

If a person joins the military and is totally under the impression that it's just a good way to get money for college, then that person is a dipshit. It's the MILITARY, man. Of course you should expect to fight.

Wrong - MOST people join the military because they cant afford college or general life. MOST are told they will be going to some great school after there term is served. MOST are young black, urban kids that can only get out of the getto by joining the military.
MOST could "expect" they might have to face a war... but NOT A WAR FOR OIL.
For freedom? Yeah... Because we where attacked?.... Yeah .. but kill and die in a war for OIL? Nope... not hardly.
Also... i have not seen ONE new interview of a solder (recently) that AGREES with WHY they are there... and i havent seen ONE single solder NOT proclaim they should already be back in the USA.
Sure - back when everyone fell for the "USA is kickin ass" campaign back when they sold the war as a big terrorist fight propaganda - kick Al Quadas ass... bla bla - red white and blue country singin bullshit they thought they were there for the right reasons... but now they know they are just pawns in a war over oil.
I know plenty who have been there... who are there and not ONE of them agrees with being there... or the reason they are there.

Now - once again i pose this question to SS or BBJ....

How can you justify the fact we are letting Bin Ladden walk around free?
How can you justify spending 1 trillion dollars on the ADMITTED NON THREAT - no WMD - no ties to Al Quada - enemy of Saddam - yet let the person "claimed" responsible for 9/11 run free as hell? If this WAR is all about “terrorist & terrorism” then why are they allowing the MOST wanted terrorist on the planet walk around UNTOUCHED or UNSEEN?

Osama (Free) – Nothing to gain
Saddam (Captured) – OIL & MONEY!
Get the picture?

Explain that to me? How can you justify that?

JJ Insane1

BigBoyJ

11-03-2005, 08:35 PM

Well, it's not like we are just not looking for Bin Laden. We just can't find him. It's a big world, man. A tall skinny guy like Bin Laden can fit into a lot of holes.

And again, if the war IS ONLY for oil...fine. Somebody's gotta have it, it might as well be us.

JJ Insane1

11-03-2005, 09:10 PM

And again, if the war IS ONLY for oil...fine. Somebody's gotta have it, it might as well be us.

First,
That 6ft 3 inch mother fucker is walking around FREE because we havent even looked for him.
Bro.. we have (supposedly) the best intelligence, and spying network in the world... do you expect me to believe they cant find Bin Ladden?
They sure pulled Saddam out of a dirt hole in the middle of NOWHERE and it didn’t take them NO time to find him (Coincidently just as people started doubting the war)
OSAMA IS ON KIDNEY DIALISIS for God sakes! He HAS to have constant medical attention ... honestly bro... that is ridiculous to assume they cant find him.
They just have no use for him... so fuckem. No oil - no need.

Second - "it might as well be us"?
Man.. i bet you where the big kid that took all the other kids lunch money in school hu?:p
It was not OURS to take. If someone should own it, it should be the people who founded the land.. have lived there and owned it to start with.
You cant go around in life with the philosophy of.... "fuckem, if i want it i will take it".
What if someone did that to us? What is someone wanted your car – rolled up, jacked your ass and took it… just because “somebodys gotta have it”.

That is called - Duuhh.. STEALING.

Later u big bully.
JJ Insane1

STORM SHADOW

11-03-2005, 10:33 PM

Well since I am still in the military reserves and most EVERYBODY I know has been in both campaigns (afgan/iraq), you're wrong...sorry.

I still believe MOST join the military because they are warriors. If anybody joins for ANY OTHER REASON.... tuff shit! Warriors in an ALL VOLUNTEER military cannot pick and choose the battles they believe in. If that's how they feel...they should be mercinaries.

You can call it a fight for oil all you want. But oil is a strategic interest and we will fight for it. Oil runs the world. Oil supports a large military. No oil, no large military. When you're the world's police, that's the way it is. All these countries talking shit will sooner or later beg the USA to save their stupid sorry asses.

SS

JJ Insane1

11-04-2005, 03:36 AM

You can call it a fight for oil all you want. But oil is a strategic interest and we will fight for it. Oil runs the world. Oil supports a large military. No oil, no large military. When you're the world's police, that's the way it is. All these countries talking shit will sooner or later beg the USA to save their stupid sorry asses.

SS

I didnt ask what i could call it... i know its a war for oil.
I asked you how you can justify Osama Bin Ladden running FREE ... Yet we spent 1 trillion dollars catching an idiot that was PROVEN even before the war (Rise and Powell gave statements to prove this before 9/11) to have been NO THREAT to the USA?
How can you justify YOUR military not catching Bin Ladden?

You cant!
The only thing you can HONESTLY say is.... Osama being caught had no personal or governmental gains... Saddam DID - OIL!

End of story.

Btw- i have seen allot of Veterans over the last 3 years (my dad goes to the VA hospital monthy and i take him every time - Vietnam, purple heart.. bla bla) and i have not met one single vet of THIS war that agrees we should be there.
Also.... i have seen alllllllooooot of guys i WOULDNT ever call "warriors".
Most where poor white and blacks with hopes of a "secure" future from joining the military ie... college, jobs bla bla bla.
Nothing i seen was "warrior" material. Trust me, i have allot of time while waiting on my pops so i talk to these guys.... most are MAIMED for life and ALL are UNDER SUPPORTED by the military with there wounds.

Back to my question you never answered - Justify Saddam over Osama?
1 trillion catching someone who was NOT A THREAT AT ALL.... vs spending a month of "looking" for the guy who is suppose to be the most WANTED person on earth?
Hmmm... .Luck for Bin Ladden - he had no access to "Big Oil".

Oh - Who the hell appointed US as the "world police'? Hmmm... can we possibly get "world taxes" from the countries we "POLICE" rather then use OUR taxes to change there diapers for them?

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

11-04-2005, 03:57 AM

Just today -

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9912352/

"ROME - Italian secret services warned the United States months before it invaded Iraq that a dossier about a purported Saddam Hussein effort to buy uranium in Africa was fake, a lawmaker said Thursday after a briefing by the nation’s intelligence chief. "

Ha ha ha... wasnt Italy one of those "coalition of the willing" Ol George cooked up?

Oh... i cant wait for the shit to hit the fan on this one:D

JJ Insane1

BigBoyJ

11-04-2005, 05:22 AM

I tell ya, JJ. If it came down to me taking lunch money from other people, or not being able to eat, you're damn right I'd be taking their lunch money. It's the same with the oil.

As for Bin Laden, we are still looking. Maybe he's not a top priority since he's dying anyway...if he's not already dead.

Italy? Nobody cares what Italy says.

STORM SHADOW

11-04-2005, 05:27 AM

Oh fuck...we could go back and forth on this... I know this person and I know this person. JJ it doesn't mean shit to me. Believe what you want. Maybe the warriors I surround myself with are more disciplined. This 'Conflict' is tough...but not near as tough had they been S. E. Asian...so I don't want to hear any bitching.

We are in for many more conflicts...so just sit back and watch... who really gives a fuck if YOU believe in it? The war machine turned on... it's not going to turn off anymore...those days are bye bye.

As for finding Bin Laden..there are literally thousands of people on the Gov't hit list that can't be found. Doesn't bother me. It took many years for Rome to find Hannibal and in the end...he took his own life because he knew he'd be on the run the rest of his life. Bin Laden has no home no country no family. We took everything he loved away from him. He is an empty man. We killed off everything he was and ever will be, he's a shell of a man now. As far as I'm concerned...he's dead.

Speaking of Hannibal..he terrorized Rome. Rome would have given anything in the world to have his head. But Rome knew he was on the run...hiding in Turkey...it would be hard to find him... Rome sent assassins. Rome in the end got more than what they originally wanted... Rome conquered Spain and North Africa and burned Carthage to the fucking ground! Just for the hell of it! It closed alot of wounds of the mother's whom lost their son's protecting Rome from Hannibal.

Historically, I don't give a rat's ass about what anybody lost in the countries we attacked. I'm still pissed! I want the whole world to know...fucking with America or it's allies is a deadly game to play...and we will burn your fucking cities to the ground if we have too.

You all better thank God that I was not Emperor of the free Americas when this happened..it would have been different....
Fucking BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! Then a mop up infantry group to go in a burn the rest to the ground. All the people responsible for chopping off American and Allied heads... your bodies would be impalled in mid air for 3 fucking days for the world to see.

Dracula... you did a good job against the Muslim menace...come back and finish it.

SS

JJ Insane1

11-04-2005, 06:16 AM

As for finding Bin Laden..there are literally thousands of people on the Gov't hit list that can't be found.

"and we will burn your fucking cities to the ground if we have too."
SS

First, i am not talking about Hannibal or dracula. I am talking about THE MOST WANTED PERSON ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH! Not... just some guy from the government hit list.
He has no gain, so they do not bother... thats the truth but you just wont admit it.
By excusing him as “just another guy on the government hit list “ is a total cop out… but I understand because it’s the only excuse for the governments failures other then admitting the truth. No Osama = No oil. Saddam = Big Oil.

Second....
"fuck with the US and we will burn your cities to the ground".
How do you think that sounds bro? A lot of people do not buy into that macho macho American bullshit.
I say - Go ahead and burn the cities down - but in the end, those doing the buring will have to answer to God.
I hate that bullshit macho "we are a badass" marine, army, bla bla bla.
Your all human beings.... NOT MEANT TO BURN EACH OTHERS CITES DOWN.
Do you believe in God?
If so.... do you remember that little thing called "thou shalt not kill".
I am sure God will remember when that times comes.
Jesus man, War is so fucking stupid.
Its DEATH... and thats sad.
Whats even more sad is... its death over Oil. I am not trying to flame you or offend anyone... but killing is killing. God didnt say "thou shall kill in war".
In the end... the ultimate "judge" will decide which "macho" war machines get into heaven.

JJ Insane1

STORM SHADOW

11-04-2005, 04:00 PM

JJ...is there something wrong with you? I wouldn't bring the Bible into this as...well I'm pretty schooled on that too.

"Thou Shalt Not Kill"? hahahaha that sentence doesn't exist anywhere. Oh there are some Bibles that still say that but lately people have become sticklers for EXACT translations. The exact translation from Hebrew to Latin to English is
"Thou Shalt Not Murder" that's right... and there is a major difference between killing and murdering. Even our own laws in the USA have defined the two words.
To further prove it. God being the perfect being..blemish free.. mistake free would NEVER contradict Himself. If God (the one and only true living God, God of Abraham and Moses), ever contradicted Himself he would not be >>God<<<. God would never say "thou shalt not kill" and then violate it Himself and order the Israelis to violate it. God 'killed' millions and millions, had the Israelis 'Kill' hundreds of thousands. According to the Bible 'God had sent many nations against each other'.
Another reason God would not have contradicted Himself is because before Jesus, some of God's 'statutes' required the death of certain people for their behaviours.
Another reason. God would never make a commandment like that because one would not be able to 'Defend' themself from their enemies or other attackers. If it said "thou shalt not kill"... if a person was going to 'MURDER' a woman and in the last second a police sniper shot the attacker in the head and he died...the sniper would burn in hell. God just wouldn't make that kind of a mistake. If a woman was being raped and in the struggle she killed the raper... under your commandment... she would burn.

Trust me when I say... it really does say "thou shalt not murder"

Burning our enemies to the ground is NOT against God's law. In fact..being Christian and believing that Jesus is my Lord and Savior and the enemy is muslim... if you read the Bible...God is not politically correct to those that do not acknowledge Him as God and Jesus as the Son of God.

SS

STORM SHADOW

11-04-2005, 04:07 PM

As I wrote that... with no coffee...hmmmm
Paris... the Country friendly to Muslims is burning. tsssk tssssk tsssk

Good job Muslims. This is what happens when you let them come across your soil unchallenged. There were many in history that knew it would come to this.

SS

JJ Insane1

11-04-2005, 04:08 PM

Trust me when I say... it really does say "thou shalt not murder"
SS

In my life - God has something to do with everything... so therefore i bring it into this subject. If others choose to not let God play a role in everything they do.. then hey, its up to those people to suffer the consequences for there actions.

You dont have to talk about it if you dont want to... most are not comfortable talking about it so... dont bother.

Now "thou shalt not murder".

Hmmmm... would you consider all those INNOCENT women and children in Iraq who died from... bombs, gun fights, ect ect... while minding there own business sitting in there own homes MURDER? Maybe you call it an "accident".
Maybe you call it "Killing"?
I call it MURDER. Sure, it wasnt the same as walking up and blasting someone at the local grocery store... but they where KILLED by people who had NO justification in killing them.... so therefore that is murder.
A man at the grocery store kills for the money in the cash register.... the people of America kill the people of Iraq for oil....
Either way... its murdering to take something - so you can add on stealing as well.... another sin.

If not ... explain to me how you can justify in the eyes of God that killing all those innocent people for oil is right?
Bush is a REAL Christian alright! Go killer… gettem boy!

JJ Insane1

STORM SHADOW

11-04-2005, 04:15 PM

I'll call it killing a Godless people. We do our best to lower the casualties... shit happens in war. I'm sure when God sent nations to war against each other...they had theirs too.

So if China was going to attack the USA and destroy us and we nuked them...we murdered the Chinese people? I'm sure not all the Chinese people wanted the USA attacked yet they got vaporized.

SS

I don't mind bringing God into this. I think God has a Hand in bringing down the muslims.

JJ Insane1

11-04-2005, 04:17 PM

God is not politically correct to those that do not acknowledge Him as God and Jesus as the Son of God.

SS

This i agree on.... God is not "politically correct" with those who do not acknowledge him as there God an so forth... BUT.... punishing Muslims is his job... just because God doesnt accept them into heaven because of there beliefs still doesnt give US (Humans, Christians ect ..) the right to just go kill (murder) them off does it? Especially for OIL?

Judgment is up to God - Not man.

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

11-04-2005, 04:19 PM

JJ Insane1

11-04-2005, 04:22 PM

STORM SHADOW

11-04-2005, 04:24 PM

This i agree on.... God is not "politically correct" with those who do not acknowledge him as there God an so forth... BUT.... punishing Muslims is his job... just because God doesnt accept them into heaven because of there beliefs still doesnt give US (Humans, Christians ect ..) the right to just go kill (murder) them off does it? Especially for OIL?

Judgment is up to God - Not man.

JJ Insane1

How do you know we're not doing His job? He's sent many nations to war...they didn't even know it was God's hand that caused it. One cannot in one sentence say "God has a hand in things" then deny it in others.

SS

JJ Insane1

11-04-2005, 04:26 PM

How do you know we're not doing His job? He's sent many nations to war...they didn't even know it was God's hand that caused it. One cannot in one sentence say "God has a hand in things" then deny it in others.

SS

Well... common since will tell you -
You do not kill innocent people for material things.

America kills Iraqis for Oil.

God is not a God who hires out his children to murder for personal gain or material goods.
How is that so hard to understand?
JJ Insane1

STORM SHADOW

11-04-2005, 04:28 PM

Again you're wrong. In the Bible... God had the Israelis kill hundreds of thousands of people for a land grab..what do you call that?

SS

JJ Insane1

11-04-2005, 04:32 PM

Again you're wrong. In the Bible... God had the Israelis kill hundreds of thousands of people for a land grab..what do you call that?

SS

I have no idea what to call that... i guess God does.
Where in the Bible does it say Americans shall kill for oil? Do you honestly think God made George Bush... LIE to get a war started, then have the entire rest of the world turn against him?
If God intended for us to invade Iraq and take there oil... we would have just done that... not lie our way into it.
Do you think the Israelis had to lie there way into taking that land?
It was GODS will... Not Georges will for personal gain.

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

11-04-2005, 04:34 PM

Well... just today i read this...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9904968/

"The 10,000 protesters gathered here to protest Bush’s visit"

Who is that they are protesting? That would be the Lord of the USA correct?

Like Big A said... allot of people view this idiot the same way i do.

JJ insane1

JJ Insane1

11-04-2005, 04:39 PM

Just today...

Allot of people love this guy hu? I bet he really feels the love when he sees shit like this :eek: Ha ha ha

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9917012/

"Nearly 7 in 10 -- 68 percent -- believe the country is seriously off course"

That means that BBJ has 2 others who see Bush the way he does.
All the others are "way out there" like me :D

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

11-04-2005, 04:54 PM

Man, this dude is AWSOME... How could anyone not like Ol George! :rolleyes:

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7606.shtml

"Bush's Increasing Mental Lapses and Temper Tantrums Worry White House Aides"

"Senior aides describe Bush as increasingly “edgy” or “nervous” or “unfocused.” They say the President goes from apparent coherent thought one moment to aimless rambles about political enemies and those who are “out to get me.”"

[B]"“You don’t know if he’s going to be coherent from one moment to the next. What scares me is if he lapses into one of those fogs during a public appearance.”

"Aides say Bush, who has always had trouble focusing during times of stress, is increasingly distant during meetings, often staring off into space during discussions on the nation’s security and other issues."

Man... now thats someone i would want running my great nation hu?
I mean.... its great to know just any fucking skitzo idiot can get the job done.
JJ Insane1

STORM SHADOW

11-04-2005, 05:12 PM

I have no idea what to call that... i guess God does.
Where in the Bible does it say Americans shall kill for oil? Do you honestly think God made George Bush... LIE to get a war started, then have the entire rest of the world turn against him?
If God intended for us to invade Iraq and take there oil... we would have just done that... not lie our way into it.
Do you think the Israelis had to lie there way into taking that land?
It was GODS will... Not Georges will for personal gain.

JJ Insane1

You have inside info on God? wow

JJ Insane1

11-04-2005, 06:05 PM

You have inside info on God? wow

No? Do you? Does George?

No one does in my opinion... but i also know that we sure do love to disagree dont we :D

Your a good dude bro and a very smart man so please dont take anything i type to heart. I know i am "out there" sometimes... but as you said, thats what makes us who we are.
I am just a kind hearted country hick who sees things in a different way i guess.

JJ Insane1:)

STORM SHADOW

11-04-2005, 06:13 PM

No? Do you? Does George?

No one does in my opinion... but i also know that we sure do love to disagree dont we :D

Your a good dude bro and a very smart man so please dont take anything i type to heart. I know i am "out there" sometimes... but as you said, thats what makes us who we are.
I am just a kind hearted country hick who sees things in a different way i guess.

JJ Insane1:)

And remember I asked you not to change lol

The greatest threat to freedom is 100% agreement. I think I'm the only one that has actually coined that. If a nation is in 100% agreement... it's Fascist... to get there... all other parties have been destroyed and their people killed off. I don't want to live in a nation that is in agreement. 50/50 makes me comfortable.

SS

JJ Insane1

11-04-2005, 09:34 PM

And remember I asked you not to change lol

The greatest threat to freedom is 100% agreement. I think I'm the only one that has actually coined that. If a nation is in 100% agreement... it's Fascist... to get there... all other parties have been destroyed and their people killed off. I don't want to live in a nation that is in agreement. 50/50 makes me comfortable.

SS

Yeah i agree but... right now its 65% - 35% in my favor :D

Just kidding bro.
I really do agree. I just hate people cant see the way i see... but thats life.
Either way we have to share this world with each other... so like it or lump it.
JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

11-04-2005, 11:08 PM

Just today - Bwahahahahah... i love it! :D

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2005/11/04/GR2005110400025.html?referrer=emaillink

Oh i cant wait! Oh i cant wait! The time is coming! And... i get to say "I told you so!" Bwahahaha....:p

JJ insane1

BigBoyJ

11-05-2005, 02:28 AM

JJ, have you ever seen that show "Street Smarts"? They go around and ask the average person totally obvious questions, yet most of the time the people have no freakin' clue what the answer is. For example, can you recite the words to the "Pledge of Allegiance"? I'm sure you can, JJ, but most people have no idea what the hell the words are. Now, do you really think that the vast majority of the ignorant American public has one fuckin' clue how to handle a situation as complicated as the war in Iraq or the economy? Of course they don't. It's easy to take a poll and say you don't like how the president is doing things, the thing is NO ONE has come up with a better plan.

As for George Bush being edgy...:D ...well that's just funny. I think he may be under a little bit of stress and some edginess is somewhat understandable. Hell, I get edgy when I miss my favorite shows on tv.:p

STORM SHADOW

11-05-2005, 02:55 AM

I get edgy if I don't have some form of sex each day.

SS

STORM SHADOW

11-05-2005, 03:11 AM

Anyway..playing on what I said before... I hear too many complaints about a split nation. When I explain the safety of that at work or what not... people's eyes gloss over.
50/50 split America or close to it in either favor causes slowwwwwwwwwwww deliberate calculated legislation. I like it to move slow. It dulls knee jerking legislation that takes away rights. When the balance is tipped too far or too many Centrists.. (you know the cowards...fence sitters, luke warm, Independants), it causes 'Funnel Legislation'.. you heard it here first..I coined it. Without opposition...rights are stripped. Society moves fast right or left and gather too much momentum and it's hard to slow down when it gets a certain speed. The public get's motivated...they are happy, energized at change...and then it's too late. People didn't see what happened to them...either direction too far and then the militant wing of which ever side takes over. To the left...the militant left takes over and ceades rights to the state. To far right and there is not enough Gov't to keep the people organized..individuals have so many liberties they start abusing other's liberties.
To far to the right..then the trashing starts.. first they go after the people that don't look Americanized, then they go after recent immigrants, then the latinos, then the blacks, etc. then they go after people that don't think the same..you end up with a smaller group of America that lost it's diversity.
Too far to the left... soooo much had been ceaded to the state... the state literally controlls every aspect of our life. Neighbors turning each other into the state for not thinking correctly in the Socialist/Nazi mentality. Taken off to the 'Ranch' to be reprogrammed. There is no crime here in their Utopia as the punishment for any offense was 'Drakonian' in nature. People standing in bread lines while the Elite Class that takes care of you eats the best of your labors. Cameras in your office watching you. Your spending habits monitored. Books burned in public for non conformance. Media tightly controlled. Every sci fi nightmare comes true.

SS

The Horror
The Horr orrrrr

Big A

11-05-2005, 03:56 AM

STORM SHADOW

11-05-2005, 04:01 AM

Religion, in any of it's forms, is just brainwashing, whether is christianity, judism, muslim, hindu, etc, etc

It is just the oldest form of control, to brainwash people to control them, to make them scared with an illusion.

I agree to some extent...but not for unorganized Christianity. Christian meaning 'Christ Follower' is about it. The churches took this great historical event and organized it to control the populace as it gained so much momentum it became incredibly popular. Rulers are smart. Machievellii would have suggested such a control method.

SS

BigBoyJ

11-05-2005, 04:36 AM

Religion, in any of it's forms, is just brainwashing, whether is christianity, judism, muslim, hindu, etc, etc

It is just the oldest form of control, to brainwash people to control them, to make them scared with an illusion.

I would agree to an extent also. I do consider myself a Christian, but I don't like ANY church. I do think that religions are a way to impart a sense of obligation and impose whoever's version of morality. With REAL Christianity though, to me, it just makes too much sense to not be real. It's hard to explain, but once you know it true, you just know. It can't be proven, that's part of the plan. That's what faith is.

STORM SHADOW

11-05-2005, 05:55 AM

I must add that Christian is not a religion either... its a faith meaning Christ Follower. Christ never preached for religions, in fact He was highly against it because they became so corrupt at that time. Everything get's perverted..nothing is sacred.

SS

JJ Insane1

11-05-2005, 06:51 AM

Hell, I get edgy when I miss my favorite shows on tv.:p

There is a big difference between "Edgy" and .. INCOHEARANT... mumbling incoherently.... depression - Temperamental.
Its also a even bigger difference when its OUR president who is loosing it and wigging out.

JJ Insane1

STORM SHADOW

11-05-2005, 12:18 PM

There is a big difference between "Edgy" and .. INCOHEARANT... mumbling incoherently.... depression - Temperamental.
Its also a even bigger difference when its OUR president who is loosing it and wigging out.

JJ Insane1

lol you're so full of shit sometimes.

SS

JJ Insane1

11-05-2005, 05:26 PM

lol you're so full of shit sometimes.

SS

Judging by that article... i am not the one who is full of shit.
He is.

JJ Insane1

STORM SHADOW

11-05-2005, 11:31 PM

Judging by that article... i am not the one who is full of shit.
He is.

JJ Insane1

Yes you are:p

JJ Insane1

11-06-2005, 12:28 AM

Anyone seen it?

If so.. imagine operation "desert storm" X's 200! That is what you get with the Iraq "operation freedom" war.
Instead of spending 155 days in 120 degree temps... imagine spending 3 years!
Instead of not seeing action... imagine seeing your own solders get blown up on a daily basis.
Instead of being away from your wife or girlfriend for 155 days while she runs around screwing your neighbor or best friend... imagine sitting there for 3 years knowing she is out ... lonely, desperate... and getting fucked hard by someone who cares more about her then... KILLING others.
Now .. imagine why your there? To fill the RICH people pockets with money made from war and oil... while you loose everything you have including your fucking wife and LIFE!

Man... if you look at it that way... i bet those solders are really GLAD to be there like "some" seem to think.

Jeezzz

JJ insane1

JJ Insane1

11-06-2005, 12:35 AM

Yes you are:p

So - I might be ... but at least i do not mumble incoherently - have to take PROZAC to treat depression - curse out anyone who disagrees with me... drift off into a fog - talk to my self..... resort to Alcoholism to suppress my anger and fears like Ol George does :D

JJ Insane1

BigBoyJ

11-06-2005, 01:58 AM

So - I might be ... but at least i do not mumble incoherently - have to take PROZAC to treat depression - curse out anyone who disagrees with me... drift off into a fog - talk to my self..... resort to Alcoholism to suppress my anger and fears like Ol George does :D

JJ Insane1

Mumble incoherently- Well,ya kinda do.

Prozac- Maybe not, but maybe you should.

Curse out anyone who disagrees with you- No, you just attack them with conspiracy crap.

Drift off into a fog- Well, you definitely don't drift.

Talk to yourself- Only on the computer.

Alchohol to supress your anger- Your anger is insupressable.

But that's what makes ya so darn fun.

STORM SHADOW

11-06-2005, 02:54 AM

President Bush does what? OMG you're so full of shit! gawwwd do you never stop?

SS

JJ Insane1

11-06-2005, 05:00 AM

Nope - I dont, you just dismiss anything you cant prove or disagree with as "Mumble".

Mumble incoherently- Well,ya kinda do.
Well you seem to dismiss anything YOU cant prove other wise as conspiracy or "mumble" so in your eyes i guess you need to justify why you cant seem to see the truth so you consider me as a mumbler. Ok

Prozac- Maybe not, but maybe you should.

Prozac... am i depressed? No.. i see the truth so i couldnt be happier. Your in denial... so who needs the prozac?

Curse out anyone who disagrees with you- No, you just attack them with conspiracy crap.

Yeah considering everything i type that you cant PROVE otherwise is a "conspiracy" ... or if God.. i mean, YOUR GOVERNEMENT didnt type it then its surely not true right?

Talk to yourself- Only on the computer.

Judging by the PMs i get, i am not talking to my self... besides you seem to want to disagree with everything i type so... who is listening?

Alchohol to supress your anger- Your anger is insupressable.

Anger unsupressable? Well... yeah you got one right. No.. there is nothing that would supress my anger. When i am lied to, made to think a "certian way" and herded like a fucking sheep... yeah i get pretty angry.
Altough you seem to like being told what to believe and being herded like a sheep... so maybe you need the Alcohol.

JJ insane1

BigBoyJ

11-06-2005, 05:44 PM

Nope - I dont, you just dismiss anything you cant prove or disagree with as "Mumble".

No, I can't dismiss your own mind. When someone reads a fairy tale and calls it fact, how do you dismiss that? Insanity can't be dismissed.

Well you seem to dismiss anything YOU cant prove other wise as conspiracy or "mumble" so in your eyes i guess you need to justify why you cant seem to see the truth so you consider me as a mumbler. Ok

I DO see the truth. I base my opinions on science as it applies to a particular situation. You base your opinions on random sciences/theories from different situations that agree with what you like. The sum of the parts is greater than the whole in your eyes.

Prozac... am i depressed? No.. i see the truth so i couldnt be happier. Your in denial... so who needs the prozac?

How am I in denial when I use logic to explain my opinions? There's a difference in real science and just calling your opinions "facts".

Yeah considering everything i type that you cant PROVE otherwise is a "conspiracy" ... or if God.. i mean, YOUR GOVERNEMENT didnt type it then its surely not true right?

When have you seen me EVER quote ANYTHING the government said? Once again, it's about logic JJ. You should try to find that when you argue with people.

Judging by the PMs i get, i am not talking to my self... besides you seem to want to disagree with everything i type so... who is listening?

Well, it's like watching a fat lady undress. You don't want to see it, but for some damn reason you have to look.

Anger unsupressable? Well... yeah you got one right. No.. there is nothing that would supress my anger. When i am lied to, made to think a "certian way" and herded like a fucking sheep... yeah i get pretty angry.
Altough you seem to like being told what to believe and being herded like a sheep... so maybe you need the Alcohol.

You are the source of your own anger. When a person can't see both sides of a situation a severe imbalance takes place. You have become EXTREMELY unbalanced.

JJ insane1

Read between the lines here, JJ.

JJ Insane1

11-06-2005, 10:26 PM

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1106-20.htm

"The New York Times reported this week that a National Security Agency historian concluded that communications intercepted by U.S. eavesdroppers during the Gulf of Tonkin incident were altered to make it appear that North Vietnamese had attacked American warships in August 1964. "

"For now, what we know is that we're stuck with another Texan in the White House who can't find his way out of a military debacle that we charged into under false pretenses.
It's true that Iraq is no Vietnam. One reason this is so is that the current war will wind up being much more damaging to our security than Vietnam was. In spite of all the talk about the danger of falling dominoes in Southeast Asia, the communist victory in Vietnam had limited repercussions for the United States.

So... they admit they started the Vietnam war illegally? How many died in that bullshit war? Hmmmmm
You see the dots connecting?
I do.
The majority does.
JJ Insane1

STORM SHADOW

11-06-2005, 10:29 PM

Are they pink poka-dots?

SS

JJ Insane1

11-06-2005, 10:31 PM

Are they pink poka-dots?

SS

No matter the color the dots are YOUR reality - and the start of the END of YOUR president.

JJ Insane1

STORM SHADOW

11-06-2005, 10:33 PM

That's a historian..I don't care what agency he's with... it's like a Presidential Historian... they write from THEIR perspective.

You can find a thousand historians that will say that the Holocaust in Germany was fabricated too!

I'll bet you can find historians that will state that Santa was really into beastiality and Rudolph was his fav.

SS

JJ Insane1

11-06-2005, 11:03 PM

That's a historian..
SS

Ha ha ha... i see. You have more "credentials" then this guy correct?
I mean... where is your article? Who is reading your theories and facts other then the losers (me included... and losers is a joking term so dont get all pissy) on this forum?

Its nice to know, i have a friend in SS that knows more then the "Historians" and "journalist" of the world!

JJ Insane1

BigBoyJ

11-06-2005, 11:25 PM

JJ, why is it that when YOU post a source of information it HAS to be true, but when I post a MUCH MORE CREDIBLE source of information it's all bullshit? You find posts from individuals who state their opinions (which just so happen to agree with yours) and then you call it a fact. But when I post a real link to a university study which was done in another country, you call it bullshit? You can't lend any credibility to your arguments by ONLY posting things that are presented as opinion OR individual facts which mean nothing when pertaining to a situation as a whole.

Find something real, JJ. Post something with REAL scientific credibility to back up ANYTHING you say. I don't mean one individuals interpretation of a particular event. I'm talking legitimate science with credible backing, not something that a guy who took a chemistry or history class in highschool decided MUST be a fact.

STORM SHADOW

11-07-2005, 02:31 AM

Actually I was poli sci with Hist Western Civ minor. And the first lesson in History is....don't trust historians.... investigate for yourself and draw your own conclusions. All historians throughout history have their own adgendas too.
All history is scewed in the favor of the victor. Don't ever forget that.

SS

STORM SHADOW

11-07-2005, 02:34 AM

BigBoyJ

11-07-2005, 04:21 AM

JJ Insane1

11-07-2005, 06:26 AM

Oh...and ever wonder why I don't give links to my PROOF lol or to make my point... I just think it would be pointless. I'm a cynic and don't trust much info. I look at moments in history pass...corralate it with known history and my instruction in poli sci, machievellie, etc and draw my own conclusions. I don't need programming from CNN and what not.

SS
Then why not open your mind and use your GOD given common since?
If you did... you would know 2 things... Bush LIED his ass off to start a war for personal gain... and number 2 = "Someone" (Bush and company) destroyed those buildings with controlled demolition.

Bro - Come on.. do you honestly think 2 of the BEST built free standing STEEL structures ON THE PLANET would actually fall into nothing but dust after only an hour of "Semi" hot temps... temps PROVEN to not be hot enough to cause ANY steel to melt? Oh... not to mention the fact that NO STEEL STRUCTURE HAS EVER FALLEN DUE TO FIRE - EVER - IN HISTORY! 18 HOURS OF BURING... AND STILL THEY NEVER FELL!
Jesus.. that is SO far fetched. The only reason you "believe" the bullshit story the government is handing out is simple.... you think NO one could be that ruthless and murderous.... Well, think again my friend. When there is a war for BILLIONS in profit on the line... Money talks and bullshit walks.
Whats a couple thousand people to the "powers that be"?
NOTHING when there are BILLIONS of dollars to put in there pockets. Not to mention they get to use the "fear" tactics to claim "terrosit" are EVERYWHERE... Whooooo booga booga - CODE RED! Get out the duck tape! Give us your RIGHTS so we can protect you! Bwahahahaha... what a fucking crock of SHIT!
Where are all the AMERICAN terrorist attacks since the staged one on 9/11? Oh... theres so many out there! Yet - NO FUCKING ATTACKS ....
Hmmmmmmm ..... damn this is so obvious.

JJ Insane1

STORM SHADOW

11-07-2005, 04:10 PM

Oh yeah...the PRESIDENT (I don't call the President by their last name only), lied to start a war with Iraq for personal gain even though he knew before hand it could cost the Republicans control of congress and lose the White House. OMG this is soooo rich! The President had everything to lose and knew this was going to be bad building a free democratic republic. He's not stupid, he knows Nation Building is NOT popular with Americans and this (by His own words), could cost the Republican party all that they had gained.
The reason I love Him so much is... he doesn't take polls to decide what to do, what is popular...He does what HE BELIEVES IS RIGHT...which is why I trust Him.

I know how President Clinton made policy...you don't have to tell me.

SS

BigBoyJ

11-07-2005, 05:01 PM

JJ Insane1

11-07-2005, 05:57 PM

JJ, if Bush wanted to start a war, I don't think he needed to kill Americans. You know, if it wasn't for that particular belief you have, I might almost be able to give a little credibility to your other theories. It's just that one thing that makes me totally dismiss pretty much everything you say.

Then tell me bro... how could he have started his war and used the "terror" threat to sustain the entire reason for the war without a "terrorist" attack?
How could he FEAR the public into giving away all there rights without a staged terrorist attack?
Bro - you have to ADMIT ... he says we are there to to fight GLOBAL TERRORISM.... without a TERRORIST ATTACK (STAGED) then he has no one believing TERRORIST even exist... so there for NO FEAR to scare the public into "fighting the war on terror".

Where are all the TERRORIST? Where are all the attacks on AMERICAN soil since 9/11? Please.... do not even try that "we are fighting them over there so we dont fight them here" bullshit... EVERYONE knows you can fly straight into Mexico and walk across the boarders... so... they WOULD be here if they wanted to be here... but the fact is... THEY AINT HERE.
JJ Insane1

BigBoyJ

11-07-2005, 06:21 PM

Then tell me bro... how could he have started his war and used the "terror" threat to sustain the entire reason for the war without a "terrorist" attack?
How could he FEAR the public into giving away all there rights without a staged terrorist attack?
Bro - you have to ADMIT ... he says we are there to to fight GLOBAL TERRORISM.... without a TERRORIST ATTACK (STAGED) then he has no one believing TERRORIST even exist... so there for NO FEAR to scare the public into "fighting the war on terror".

Where are all the TERRORIST? Where are all the attacks on AMERICAN soil since 9/11? Please.... do not even try that "we are fighting them over there so we dont fight them here" bullshit... EVERYONE knows you can fly straight into Mexico and walk across the boarders... so... they WOULD be here if they wanted to be here... but the fact is... THEY AINT HERE.
JJ Insane1

So, are you saying Muslim terrorists don't exist? They really don't want to attack America? I don't know, man, I'm pretty sure they do. If it's so easy to attack us, like you just said, why aren't they? Unless you really do believe that the Islamic world is perfectly happy with the US.

JJ Insane1

11-07-2005, 06:59 PM

So, are you saying Muslim terrorists don't exist? They really don't want to attack America? I don't know, man, I'm pretty sure they do. If it's so easy to attack us, like you just said, why aren't they? Unless you really do believe that the Islamic world is perfectly happy with the US.

Yeah - where are they bro? Why all the BOOGA BOOGA fear fear fear ?
Your government says there here... they say they are getting ready to attack... we have that bullshit red, yellow, orange CODE thingy that sets our "fear" off every once in a while.... but..... Hmmmm ever since 9/11.... no terrorist attacks? What gives?

YOU KNOW especially where YOU LIVE how easy it is for ANYONE to walk across the mexican boarder. You KNOW if a Muslim "terrorist" wanted to walk across that boarder he could at ANY time of the day.... and he could also carry any fucking bomb with him.... i mean i have a TRUNK full of GEAR crossed on a weekly basis... i have crossed many other items other then GEAR and never had one problem doing it.
So... why the """"' FEAR''''''' and the BOOGA BOOGA but no attacks?

Here is why... they already have there EXUSE to fight terrorism... the staged 9/11 attacks.... but in order to keep the SHEEP of America in there fear stricken, stick behind the government control they must maintain a 'TERRORIST" threat is "Gooooing to occurrrr" Booga booga!
BYE BYE Constitutional rights! Hello PATRIOT ACT!

JJ Insane1

BigBoyJ

11-07-2005, 09:21 PM

Yeah - where are they bro? Why all the BOOGA BOOGA fear fear fear ?
Your government says there here... they say they are getting ready to attack... we have that bullshit red, yellow, orange CODE thingy that sets our "fear" off every once in a while.... but..... Hmmmm ever since 9/11.... no terrorist attacks? What gives?

YOU KNOW especially where YOU LIVE how easy it is for ANYONE to walk across the mexican boarder. You KNOW if a Muslim "terrorist" wanted to walk across that boarder he could at ANY time of the day.... and he could also carry any fucking bomb with him.... i mean i have a TRUNK full of GEAR crossed on a weekly basis... i have crossed many other items other then GEAR and never had one problem doing it.
So... why the """"' FEAR''''''' and the BOOGA BOOGA but no attacks?

Here is why... they already have there EXUSE to fight terrorism... the staged 9/11 attacks.... but in order to keep the SHEEP of America in there fear stricken, stick behind the government control they must maintain a 'TERRORIST" threat is "Gooooing to occurrrr" Booga booga!
BYE BYE Constitutional rights! Hello PATRIOT ACT!

JJ Insane1

So who was it that did all the other terrorist attacks prior to 911? As for Mexico's border, well yeah it's a joke. Getting to Mexico from the Middle East isn't real easy these days though. We know where those fuckers are going these days.

JJ Insane1

11-07-2005, 09:45 PM

So who was it that did all the other terrorist attacks prior to 911? As for Mexico's border, well yeah it's a joke. Getting to Mexico from the Middle East isn't real easy these days though. We know where those fuckers are going these days.

Getting into Mexico from the middle east is not that easy? Bwa ha ha ha.. come on bro... u know better.
I have a bro i have known for 8 years - who lives in TJ and he can tell you how easy it is for ANYONE to get into Mexico.
I have a buddy in Mexico city that works for the mexican immigration (yeah they have one of those :rolleyes: ) that can tell you exactly how much of a joke there boarders are... going and coming.
So... yeah its easy for middle east - african - south american - americans to get into that country... and i know first hand how easy it is to bring shit across the boader. Gear.... drugs, cars, stolen goods... and yes BOMBS and arabs.

JJ insane1

BigBoyJ

11-07-2005, 09:50 PM

Getting into Mexico from the middle east is not that easy? Bwa ha ha ha.. come on bro... u know better.
I have a bro i have known for 8 years - who lives in TJ and he can tell you how easy it is for ANYONE to get into Mexico.
I have a buddy in Mexico city that works for the mexican immigration (yeah they have one of those :rolleyes: ) that can tell you exactly how much of a joke there boarders are... going and coming.
So... yeah its easy for middle east - african - south american - americans to get into that country... and i know first hand how easy it is to bring shit across the boader. Gear.... drugs, cars, stolen goods... and yes BOMBS and arabs.

JJ insane1

I know getting into Mexico is easy. What I'm saying is, we have a presence in the Middle East now. We know if someone is taking a flight from Iraq/Syria/whatever to Mexico.

JJ Insane1

11-08-2005, 12:12 AM

I know getting into Mexico is easy. What I'm saying is, we have a presence in the Middle East now. We know if someone is taking a flight from Iraq/Syria/whatever to Mexico.

Oh ... so your saying we have the man power and technology to follow the MILLIONS of people who fly in and out of middle east countries now?
Hmmm can you show me proof? Who does this? CIA? Homeland security? FBI?

You admited your self that our MEXICAN boarder is a joke.
They cant even track our OWN boarders... much less all the middle east travelers going to other countries..... come on bro... thats far fetched.

Oh... btw ... the government knew MOHAMMED ATTA (the "claimed" master mind of 9/11) was living in the USA.... knew he was going to attempt a terrorist attack USING AIRLINERS... (This is proven fact leaked by the CIA .. CIA director George Tenet admited ignoring it) but still did nothing to stop him... so we are expected to believe they are now watching every middle east traveler when they couldnt even watch one that was right here in our back yard?

Nope... not happenin bro
JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

11-08-2005, 04:04 AM

But.. it seems that in July of 2003 CIA Director George Tenet ADMITED the evidence was corrupt. He took the blame.... but who wouldnt with your BOSS making you?
THIS ARTICLE IS FROM 2003... but only NOW is the mainstream media covering it... Hmmmmm go figure.

http://www.liberalslant.com/wrp071403.htm

"It is clear, however, that much more went into this affair than the failure of the C.I.A. to pounce on the offending 16 words in Mr. Bush's speech. A good deal of information already points to a willful effort by the war camp in the administration to pump up an accusation that seemed shaky from the outset and that was pretty well discredited long before Mr. Bush stepped into the well of the House of Representatives last January. Doubts about the accusation were raised in March 2002 by Joseph Wilson, a former American diplomat, after he was dispatched to Niger by the C.I.A. to look into the issue. Mr. Wilson has said he is confident that his concerns were circulated not only within the agency but also at the State Department and the office of Vice President Dick Cheney. Mr. Tenet, in his statement yesterday, confirmed that the Wilson findings had been given wide distribution, although he reported that Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney and other high officials had not been directly informed about them by the C.I.A."

So... it seems the war actually WAS admitted based on lies hu?
Now.. 2 years later (after a good inside investigation) LIBBY is indicted... not Tenet. Hmmm... whos balls did Libby lick for his job? Cheney! Whos balls does Cheney lick??? Hmmmm BUSH!
The apple sure doesnt fall far from the tree.

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

11-08-2005, 04:48 AM

Hmmm... seems Rove is not off the hook ... as i said he wouldnt be!

http://www.manoramaonline.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=manorama/MmArticle/CommonFullStory&cid=1131329749872&c=MmArticle&p=1002194839100&count=10&colid=1002258272837&channel=News

Top advisor to Bush may be charged with lying
New York: US President George W. Bush's top political advisor Karl Rove is likely to be charged with lying by the special prosecutor probing the controversial CIA leak case, a development that could prompt a quick resignation of the key Bush aide, a media report said. "

JJ insane1

JJ Insane1

11-08-2005, 08:56 PM

Just today Italian news aired a special that proves the USA used "Chemical weapons in Fallujah.

http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/inchiesta/video/fallujah_ING.wmv

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10907.htm

Hmmm... wasnt Saddam invaded for doing the VERY SAME THING?

Jesus people... wake up.

JJ Insane1

rugbythug

11-14-2005, 02:29 AM

JJ Insane1

11-14-2005, 06:00 AM

You Are very Confusing JJ Your logic is twisted so bad that the ends don't meet. There is no Terror Attack there are no terrorists? What??

I am just going to pose a few questions for you. Please Answer them with answer not More Rhetorical sidesteps.

If Every Western Country thought Sadaam Had WMD's and he had used chemical weapons( which are said wmd's) In the past and never admited to disposing of any of these. How is it that Bush was able to get the true Information and know before hand he had nothing?

How big of a blow would a free and prosperous Iraq be for radical Islamists?

Before the war started how many American Casualities would have been acceptable?

Ok - "THERE ARE NO TERRORIST OR TERRORIST ATTACKS"
You name me ONE terrorist attack on USA soil since the government staged the 9/11 attacks to put "fear" into the american people in order to start there war and take away our rights? NONE ... nada, zilch.

Sure there have been attacks in other countries but THERE ALWAYS HAVE BEEN attacks over there. NONE HERE. THERE ARE NO "BOOGA BOOGA" "THE SKY IS FALLING" TERRORIST HERE. PERIOD.

About your second question = Iraq is not FREE. Iraq is free from Saddam. So Saddam is gone and .... oh wow, its a perfect place to live now hu? Free just like the USA... McDonalds and all? HELL NO ... they dont want us there.
They are killing our troops.

Before the war how many american casualities would have been acceptable?
The same as AFTER the war... NONE. If Americans where dying for OUR freedom or to protect OUR country... then dying for that is an acceptable reason... but NO SOLDER should die for RICH PEOPLES PERSONAL GAIN. OIL!

How big of a blow would a free and prosperous Iraq be for radical Islamists?
Ha ha ... free? Sure a free Iraq would be shitty for the radical Islamist but guess what... they are not free. They are being protected by OUR TROOPS... when we leave (we cant) they will be in the same boat they where in... just a different person ruling the place.
btw... even if Iraq was a free country... they would die on a daily basis because you CANT STOP radical Islamist from killing for there beliefs.
So.. they are in a no win game.... but hey, so is the USA.
Leave... we dont get to keep the OIL we are killing for.
Stay and we get to let our solders DIE for that same OIL.
Fuck that war ... fuck IRAQ, and FUCK the president.

Please Answer them with answer not More Rhetorical sidesteps.
I answer how i choose to answer... not who i am told.

JJ Insane1

STORM SHADOW

11-14-2005, 06:02 AM

9/11 staged bwahahahaha that's just fucking rich!

SS

rugbythug

11-14-2005, 02:58 PM

[/COLOR]Ok - "THERE ARE NO TERRORIST OR TERRORIST ATTACKS"
You name me ONE terrorist attack on USA soil since the government staged the 9/11 attacks to put "fear" into the american people in order to start there war and take away our rights? NONE ... nada, zilch.

This has been disproven time and again. There is no evidence that 9/11 was staged and tons that it was authentic

Sure there have been attacks in other countries but THERE ALWAYS HAVE BEEN attacks over there. NONE HERE. THERE ARE NO "BOOGA BOOGA" "THE SKY IS FALLING" TERRORIST HERE. PERIOD.
Attacks on our embassies do not count in your book?

About your second question = Iraq is not FREE. Iraq is free from Saddam. So Saddam is gone and .... oh wow, its a perfect place to live now hu? Free just like the USA... McDonalds and all? HELL NO ... they dont want us there.
They are killing our troops.

After WWII No one thought Japan could be changed to a western culture

Before the war how many american casualities would have been acceptable?
The same as AFTER the war... NONE. If Americans where dying for OUR freedom or to protect OUR country... then dying for that is an acceptable reason... but NO SOLDER should die for RICH PEOPLES PERSONAL GAIN. O

Why did the US attack Germany in WWII they never attacked us? However it was the right thing to do. This war is very similar we fight an idealogy that would destroy us. But it knows no borders.

How big of a blow would a free and prosperous Iraq be for radical Islamists?
Ha ha ... free? Sure a free Iraq would be shitty for the radical Islamist but guess what... they are not free. They are being protected by OUR TROOPS... when we leave (we cant) they will be in the same boat they where in... just a different person ruling the place.
btw... even if Iraq was a free country... they would die on a daily basis because you CANT STOP radical Islamist from killing for there beliefs.
So.. they are in a no win game.... but hey, so is the USA.
Leave... we dont get to keep the OIL we are killing for.
Stay and we get to let our solders DIE for that same OIL.
Fuck that war ... fuck IRAQ, and FUCK the president.

Please Answer them with answer not More Rhetorical sidesteps.
I answer how i choose to answer... not who i am told.

JJ Insane1
More later

JJ Insane1

11-15-2005, 12:34 AM

[/COLOR]
More later

Dude - this speaks all i have to say.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/14/bush.poll/index.html

"(CNN) -- Beset with an unpopular war and an American public increasingly less trusting, President Bush faces the lowest approval rating of his presidency, according to a national poll released Monday."

You are the minority. You are a sheep. You cant see that.
Argue all you want... your boy is going straight down the drain!
Nothing can pull him out of the hole he has dug for his own stupid ass.

Read... and weep.

JJ Insane1

JJ Insane1

11-15-2005, 12:45 AM

[/COLOR]
More later

This has been disproven time and again. There is no evidence that 9/11 was staged and tons that it was authentic
I didnt say anything about evidence of 9/11 being staged. Common since is evidence enough. I was simply stating ... there have been NO attacks on USA soil since the staged attacks! period! NONE - so where are your AlQuada cells in the US? Where are all the "terrorist" attacks? Where are the "dirty bombs"? Blaaaa your answer = THERE ARE NONE.
FEAR my friend... using FEAR they cant do anything they want. Thing is, they didnt sustain the FEAR and now people are starting to see... there is NOTHING to FEAR except more "booga booga" bullshit.

Attacks on our embassies do not count in your book?
There have ALWAYS been attacks on our US embassies my friend. ALWAYS... way BEFORE 9/11. Yet... we didnt need a "global war" on terrorism to deal with it then... and the "global war" they launched is FAILING miserably now.
You cant stop a maniac that is willing to die to kill you.... end of story.

After WWII No one thought Japan could be changed to a western culture
Listen... this is not JAPAN. This is NOT WWII. This is a war based on LIES... and its IRAQ - not Japan. Its a totally different ballgame, different circumstances, different time. There is no way you can compair this to anything except VIETNAM! The wasted war for nothing THAT WE LOST.

Why did the US attack Germany in WWII they never attacked us? However it was the right thing to do. This war is very similar we fight an idealogy that would destroy us. But it knows no borders.
Again - this is IRAQ not Germany. This is the 2000s not 40s.
But.. i will tell you this... GERMANY could have attacked us. Iraq couldnt do anything more then throw fucking rocks! They have nothing to attack us with... remember the WMD thing? Ummmmm we never found any did we?
THEY DIDNT HAVE THEM.

JJ Insane1

rugbythug

11-15-2005, 05:16 AM

How big of a blow would a free and prosperous Iraq be for radical Islamists?
Ha ha ... free? Sure a free Iraq would be shitty for the radical Islamist but guess what... they are not free. They are being protected by OUR TROOPS... when we leave (we cant) they will be in the same boat they where in... just a different person ruling the place.
btw... even if Iraq was a free country... they would die on a daily basis because you CANT STOP radical Islamist from killing for there beliefs.
So.. they are in a no win game.... but hey, so is the USA.
Leave... we dont get to keep the OIL we are killing for.
Stay and we get to let our solders DIE for that same OIL.
Fuck that war ... fuck IRAQ, and FUCK the president.

Some How Israel has survived as a country under a barrage of terror attacks. So don't tell me that a free state can not be done. Not only can it but it will. The only way we loose is if people loose there courage. This is not a war that was going to be won in 3 years. It is a war of Ideologies, not of troops, If you give people hope if there is a reason to believe that hard work will pay off. Then they have less reason to hate. Some will always hate, but they will be reduced to a mere nuasance much like the Skin Heads here. If you think about it both of these ideologies have a lot in common

This has been disproven time and again. There is no evidence that 9/11 was staged and tons that it was authentic
I didnt say anything about evidence of 9/11 being staged. Common since is evidence enough. I was simply stating ... there have been NO attacks on USA soil since the staged attacks! period! NONE - so where are your AlQuada cells in the US? Where are all the "terrorist" attacks? Where are the "dirty bombs"? Blaaaa your answer = THERE ARE NONE.
FEAR my friend... using FEAR they cant do anything they want. Thing is, they didnt sustain the FEAR and now people are starting to see... there is NOTHING to FEAR except more "booga booga" bullshit.

How long after we pull out will it be before we have another terror attack? 6 months a year? Right now the Radicals have a bigger fish to fry. If they loose in Iraq they loose big

Attacks on our embassies do not count in your book?
There have ALWAYS been attacks on our US embassies my friend. ALWAYS... way BEFORE 9/11. Yet... we didnt need a "global war" on terrorism to deal with it then... and the "global war" they launched is FAILING miserably now.
You cant stop a maniac that is willing to die to kill you.... end of story.

Your Right there were attacks on our embassies before 9/11 and we should have done something then. But we didn't we waited and the attacks got bigger and bolder. How did you defeat a bully? By giving him your lunch money and walking a different route to school or by standing your ground and showing him you were not easy pickings.

After WWII No one thought Japan could be changed to a western culture
Listen... this is not JAPAN. This is NOT WWII. This is a war based on LIES... and its IRAQ - not Japan. Its a totally different ballgame, different circumstances, different time. There is no way you can compair this to anything except VIETNAM! The wasted war for nothing THAT WE LOST.

This is your opinion In terms of history 60 years is not that long. It just feels longer because your living in it. It will take 20 years before we know if we were successfull in Iraq or not.

Why did the US attack Germany in WWII they never attacked us? However it was the right thing to do. This war is very similar we fight an idealogy that would destroy us. But it knows no borders.
Again - this is IRAQ not Germany. This is the 2000s not 40s.
But.. i will tell you this... GERMANY could have attacked us. Iraq couldnt do anything more then throw fucking rocks! They have nothing to attack us with... remember the WMD thing? Ummmmm we never found any did we?
THEY DIDNT HAVE THEM.
Cmon be intellecually honest here. War is war. If you don't think that Islamists are not trying to take over the world than you are not paying attention. They are creeping into all there neighboring countries and forcing change-Not by teaching and trying to convert but by force change or die. How many examples do you need to believe this. Russia? Sudan? Indonesia?

JJ Insane1

As to your quotes about low poll #'s well I could care less. I don't like some of the things that Bush has done- IE I hate the prescription drug plan, I dislike much of the patriot act, I think the Republicans have been terrible in there wastefull spending. However he has lowered taxes and reigned in a recission.

His Dad had the Highest poll numbers in history and lost the next election. So don't get to excited. Bush is not running again by the way- so how does low poll numbers hurt the Republican party?