Watch this - and "Think a little"

[Big A]

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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-11-2005, 06:00 AM
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Watch this - and "Think a little"
(Please take time to watch this entire video - its worth it)

http://theunitedamerican.blogs.com/...2000A/2000.html (http://theunitedamerican.blogs.com/Movies/2000A/2000.html)

What would happen if You or I lied and caused this?

Would we be in court? With all the video of PURE lies would we have a foot to stand on in court? Would we find ourselves looking at death row?
Lets add the fact that we not only lied - and they died, but it cost us almost 1 trillion to accomplish absolutely nothing? Actually after 2000+ we are in worse shape then ever?
Honestly .... think about it.

This makes me so SAD. Those are our BRAVE men, women, children diying because of lies made for personal gain and profit.
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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-11-2005, 06:38 AM
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I remember when i saw the planes fly into the towers live and the feeling i had and still get when i see or think of it... I get the same feeling when i see this and it makes me wonder who is the goverments looking out for? Our best interest or their own ???

I want George "W" Bush to send his daughters to ride in convoys everyday for 1 year and feel and go through what they do..not sit at home and smoke weed and drink till they pass out like dear old daddy did...

It hurts me that somebody does not have a Father, Mother, daughter, son, brother or sister coming home tonight to say "I love you"

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#3 (http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showpost.php?p=137240&postcount=3) http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/report.php?p=137240) http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/buttons/ip.gif (http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/postings.php?do=getip&p=137240)
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-11-2005, 11:37 AM
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Well I'm still in the military and as I looked at that I didn't see any children we sent there. That's a slap against our Adult Volunteer Warriors to call them children. No 'Parent' sends their children to war... not in this country. Individual Warriors 'VOLUNTEER'.

To keep these type of discussions on an intelligent level...let's please leave the children out of this. I don't fall for the "it's for the children" strategy. The 'Child Card' is no better than the race or gender card.

Second. Machievellii would agree that off spring of Leaders should never be in the military because leaders would not be able to make good decisions in the interest of the Country.

This is why our system of Gov't is set up the way it is. If enough don't agree with the President he/she can be impeached or lose the next election or the party loses all together.

Third. All volunteer warriors join with a complete understanding of what could possibly happen and that they are tools of diplomacy. Now if it was Conscription Service... you may have a point.

It's all sad. War is not pretty...none of them are and there is no way to make it sterile. But I assure you.. the less likely the most powerful country is to go to war...the more likely the aggressors against our country are. It's the opinion of many that the only reason that then USSR and USA never had it out was that the USA was totally willing to accept damage on our continent to totally vaporize the USSR. This gave both sides enough time to use peaceful diplomacy to make change. We are both Western Civilizations..so we had common goals... pease was inevitable. But Islamic countries? we share very little at this time in culture, ecomomics, religion, history, etc. A clash of civilizations was inevitable. It is the opinion of many that to make peace... the mid east must become Westernized. As we all know from history, westernizing a region involves a major death toll. In 50 years we'll look back on this and thank God we made it through it. I don't care who's the President of the USA... dem or rep, male or female... one of them would eventually have to make the decision to Westernize the Mid East.

SS

P.S. No two countries ever went to war with each other that had a McD's on each other's soil. Strategy here: Westernize the Mid East..build McD's and 7-11 on every square mile...win the hearts of the women and children. The adult males there will not change...but their time will pass... we already know they are a lost cause. In 20 years.. you'll see I'm right.

Strategy #2: Get women in the Gov't, give them the same rights and protections as American women... they'll learn to say "no!" to the men. Men there will either compromise to the equality of women or turn gay..if ya know what I mean. The key to the mideast is through the women. It's the women who will raise the children to be peaceful little slurpy sippers and burger eaters.

P.P.S. If were not for women in Western Civ.. we would have already destroyed each other. The key to peace is through the women to change the hearts of terrorist wanna be's. Let's be honest here... women do show us sometimes how stupid us men can be.

P.P.S. We will also win after death too. Each terrorist that dies doesn't really get 72 Virgins... that was a joke we made. Actually our Founders meet them... 72 Virginians beating the shit out of the terrorists. It's Virginians! Not Virgins!

SS out
Last edited by STORM SHADOW : 10-11-2005 at 11:45 AM.

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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-11-2005, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STORM SHADOW
Well I'm still in the military and as I looked at that I didn't see any children we sent there. That's a slap against our Adult Volunteer Warriors to call them children. No 'Parent' sends their children to war... not in this country. Individual Warriors 'VOLUNTEER'.

To keep these type of discussions on an intelligent level...let's please leave the children out of this. I don't fall for the "it's for the children" strategy. The 'Child Card' is no better than the race or gender card.

Second. Machievellii would agree that off spring of Leaders should never be in the military because leaders would not be able to make good decisions in the interest of the Country.

This is why our system of Gov't is set up the way it is. If enough don't agree with the President he/she can be impeached or lose the next election or the party loses all together.

Third. All volunteer warriors join with a complete understanding of what could possibly happen and that they are tools of diplomacy. Now if it was Conscription Service... you may have a point.

It's all sad. War is not pretty...none of them are and there is no way to make it sterile. But I assure you.. the less likely the most powerful country is to go to war...the more likely the aggressors against our country are. It's the opinion of many that the only reason that then USSR and USA never had it out was that the USA was totally willing to accept damage on our continent to totally vaporize the USSR. This gave both sides enough time to use peaceful diplomacy to make change. We are both Western Civilizations..so we had common goals... pease was inevitable. But Islamic countries? we share very little at this time in culture, ecomomics, religion, history, etc. A clash of civilizations was inevitable. It is the opinion of many that to make peace... the mid east must become Westernized. As we all know from history, westernizing a region involves a major death toll. In 50 years we'll look back on this and thank God we made it through it. I don't care who's the President of the USA... dem or rep, male or female... one of them would eventually have to make the decision to Westernize the Mid East.

SS

P.S. No two countries ever went to war with each other that had a McD's on each other's soil. Strategy here: Westernize the Mid East..build McD's and 7-11 on every square mile...win the hearts of the women and children. The adult males there will not change...but their time will pass... we already know they are a lost cause. In 20 years.. you'll see I'm right.

Strategy #2: Get women in the Gov't, give them the same rights and protections as American women... they'll learn to say "no!" to the men. Men there will either compromise to the equality of women or turn gay..if ya know what I mean. The key to the mideast is through the women. It's the women who will raise the children to be peaceful little slurpy sippers and burger eaters.

P.P.S. If were not for women in Western Civ.. we would have already destroyed each other. The key to peace is through the women to change the hearts of terrorist wanna be's. Let's be honest here... women do show us sometimes how stupid us men can be.

P.P.S. We will also win after death too. Each terrorist that dies doesn't really get 72 Virgins... that was a joke we made. Actually our Founders meet them... 72 Virginians beating the shit out of the terrorists. It's Virginians! Not Virgins!

SS out





Nice one SS and thanks



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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-11-2005, 12:05 PM
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Crowler you're very welcome my friend.

SS

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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-11-2005, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STORM SHADOW
Well I'm still in the military and as I looked at that I didn't see any children we sent there. That's a slap against our Adult Volunteer Warriors to call them children. No 'Parent' sends their children to war... not in this country. Individual Warriors 'VOLUNTEER'.

To keep these type of discussions on an intelligent level...let's please leave the children out of this. I don't fall for the "it's for the children" strategy. The 'Child Card' is no better than the race or gender card.

Second. Machievellii would agree that off spring of Leaders should never be in the military because leaders would not be able to make good decisions in the interest of the Country.

This is why our system of Gov't is set up the way it is. If enough don't agree with the President he/she can be impeached or lose the next election or the party loses all together.

Third. All volunteer warriors join with a complete understanding of what could possibly happen and that they are tools of diplomacy. Now if it was Conscription Service... you may have a point.

It's all sad. War is not pretty...none of them are and there is no way to make it sterile. But I assure you.. the less likely the most powerful country is to go to war...the more likely the aggressors against our country are. It's the opinion of many that the only reason that then USSR and USA never had it out was that the USA was totally willing to accept damage on our continent to totally vaporize the USSR. This gave both sides enough time to use peaceful diplomacy to make change. We are both Western Civilizations..so we had common goals... pease was inevitable. But Islamic countries? we share very little at this time in culture, ecomomics, religion, history, etc. A clash of civilizations was inevitable. It is the opinion of many that to make peace... the mid east must become Westernized. As we all know from history, westernizing a region involves a major death toll. In 50 years we'll look back on this and thank God we made it through it. I don't care who's the President of the USA... dem or rep, male or female... one of them would eventually have to make the decision to Westernize the Mid East.

SS

P.S. No two countries ever went to war with each other that had a McD's on each other's soil. Strategy here: Westernize the Mid East..build McD's and 7-11 on every square mile...win the hearts of the women and children. The adult males there will not change...but their time will pass... we already know they are a lost cause. In 20 years.. you'll see I'm right.

Strategy #2: Get women in the Gov't, give them the same rights and protections as American women... they'll learn to say "no!" to the men. Men there will either compromise to the equality of women or turn gay..if ya know what I mean. The key to the mideast is through the women. It's the women who will raise the children to be peaceful little slurpy sippers and burger eaters.

P.P.S. If were not for women in Western Civ.. we would have already destroyed each other. The key to peace is through the women to change the hearts of terrorist wanna be's. Let's be honest here... women do show us sometimes how stupid us men can be.

P.P.S. We will also win after death too. Each terrorist that dies doesn't really get 72 Virgins... that was a joke we made. Actually our Founders meet them... 72 Virginians beating the shit out of the terrorists. It's Virginians! Not Virgins!

SS out




Well done SS. I think a lot of us share your views, but it means so much more coming from someone in active service to our country. Thanks for taking the time to write this.
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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-11-2005, 01:26 PM
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Just to clear the air...most know this. I'm in Inactive Reserve because of the shattered fibula. 20 years of prep gone in one night. I don't know why the Special Forces Unit Reserve never kicked me out on medical...but they didn't. They put my in IRR I guess in hopes I would heal good enough to run and ruck again. They protected me alot in that unit..more than I deserved 'cause I was always in trouble. Only 2 months out of going to the SFAS (special forces assessment and selection), I got in the accident. Everybody could see this coming a mile away. Always on edge, twitchy, throw caution to the wind. yup..I'm stupid.

Hell this is funny. I was told to go get my DVD unit at home..everybody wanted to watch Tears of the Sun that night. So I get in my truck and a captain knocks on the passenger door and wanted in. I let the Captain in and asked "you coming with? what for?" he said "I was ordered to keep you from stopping at any bars, tattoo parlors, or piercing studios".

SS

My only option now is....if I can run again (I'll never make it as Green Beret.. my leg could never take that beating anymore), I may be able to get back as SF Intel or something... I won't do MP's... too big of a target and too many heads/hands to watch. gawwwd even if they allowed me to be an SF cook I'd be happy.

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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-11-2005, 01:31 PM
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Well...

Lets see... at ONE point everyone that was on that video was someone’s CHILD ie... children.
Also.... not everyone "volunteers" to go fight illegal wars. Wars based on lies.
Allot of poor and less fortunate Americans volunteer to join the military for one reason only.... promise of a college education.
Most not thinking they would be sent to fight for a ruthless liar over nothing more then OIL.

So... yes, it is very sad that these fine PEOPLE/SOLDIERS had to die because of a liar.

BTW... Iraqis are people also - they love, live, eat, sleep, and care just like Americans.... so that being said.... YES there have been allot of INNOCENT MEN - WOMEN AND CHILDREN killed in this war.... far more then the 2000 that volunteered.
Does anyone remember any Iraqis "volunteering" to call up and ask us to come bomb the shit out of them ? Hmmm i cant?

But hey.... we can all thank Bush for that - he didnt mind "volunteering" your brave solders and YOUR tax dollars to "Kill the world" ... Oh shit, i meant "FREE the world" !!
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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-11-2005, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STORM SHADOW
Just to clear the air...most know this. I'm in Inactive Reserve because of the shattered fibula. 20 years of prep gone in one night. I don't know why the Special Forces Unit Reserve never kicked me out on medical...but they didn't. They put my in IRR I guess in hopes I would heal good enough to run and ruck again. They protected me alot in that unit..more than I deserved 'cause I was always in trouble. Only 2 months out of going to the SFAS (special forces assessment and selection), I got in the accident. Everybody could see this coming a mile away. Always on edge, twitchy, throw caution to the wind. yup..I'm stupid.

Hell this is funny. I was told to go get my DVD unit at home..everybody wanted to watch Tears of the Sun that night. So I get in my truck and a captain knocks on the passenger door and wanted in. I let the Captain in and asked "you coming with? what for?" he said "I was ordered to keep you from stopping at any bars, tattoo parlors, or piercing studios".

SS

My only option now is....if I can run again (I'll never make it as Green Beret.. my leg could never take that beating anymore), I may be able to get back as SF Intel or something... I won't do MP's... too big of a target and too many heads/hands to watch. gawwwd even if they allowed me to be an SF cook I'd be happy.



Just to make this clear.... i am not ANTI AMERICAN... i am ANTI BUSH!
I back our military 100% and i have nothing but pure respect for SS and anyone else who puts there ass on the line for this country.
I just know its not YOUR fault you have to obey a fucking drunken idiot.
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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-11-2005, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ INSANE1
Well...

Lets see... at ONE point everyone that was on that video was someone’s CHILD ie... children.
Also.... not everyone "volunteers" to go fight illegal wars. Wars based on lies.
Allot of poor and less fortunate Americans volunteer to join the military for one reason only.... promise of a college education.
Most not thinking they would be sent to fight for a ruthless liar over nothing more then OIL.

So... yes, it is very sad that these fine PEOPLE/SOLDIERS had to die because of a liar.

BTW... Iraqis are people also - they love, live, eat, sleep, and care just like Americans.... so that being said.... YES there have been allot of INNOCENT MEN - WOMEN AND CHILDREN killed in this war.... far more then the 2000 that volunteered.
Does anyone remember any Iraqis "volunteering" to call up and ask us to come bomb the shit out of them ? Hmmm i cant?

But hey.... we can all thank Bush for that - he didnt mind "volunteering" your brave solders and YOUR tax dollars to "Kill the world" ... Oh shit, i meant "FREE the world" !!
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None of those are anybody's child... they their parents son's and daughters.. not children by any legal means.

If any soldier volunteers to the military just for the education without any thought to the fact they may die is a moron.. I don't feel sorry for them.

I don't remember Germany asking us to bomb them into oblivion either (Iraqis got off easy compared).

I really don't give a rat's ass what the Mid East wants.

and yes...oil is a strategic interest and the most powerful nations will go to war over it. No oil..no military presence..no military...no freedom. Major militaries like ours run on oil. Because China is catching up to us...they are now a major military oil consumer therefore the price at the pump goes up (most didn't know that. The bigger China's power gets the more oil it will consume..the higher the prices WE pay at the pump will go up). Rule the oil and you rule the world. If you don't rule the oil... learn to speak a new language and be prepared for a new form of Gov't...one in which you can't speak your mind. Don't think for one second that the USA, China, or Russia wouldn't waste an entire country over oil for their security. We can play PC all we want and pat ourselves on the back at how civilized we are..but broken down to the least common denominator... we ...all countries.. are or can be totally brutal and ruthless.

Lastly... I'm an Imperialist... so none of this bothers me.

SS

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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-11-2005, 02:49 PM
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Almost forgot... Bush hasn't drank in many many years. Second.. he can't be an idiot as his SAT scores were higher than Gore's. Don't say his daddy payed for his scores either...because Gore is rich too.

And if he did drink... I don't really care...so do I and 30 million other Americans. So his daughters party...whaaaaaaa I'd think there was something wrong with them if they didn't. Thank God they aren't snobs... I love a great partier.

Don't even get me started on John Kerry.. damn he pissed the vets off, another reason the military votes overwhelmingly Republican.

Lastly... I don't think you're unAmerican JJ. UnAmerican would be like a guy at work from the Mideast whom said "we derserved 9/11"..it's a wonder he still has a job. Keep it up JJ... I'm fine with the opposing view.

SS

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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-11-2005, 03:28 PM
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reply
I just saw my old training partner in that film.
Last edited by Tman2002 : 10-12-2005 at 04:58 PM.

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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-11-2005, 10:09 PM
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Good morning friends:
I just woke up... it's 5am.. sipping my coffee and reflecting on this conversation yesterday. It's sad that such things split America... but historically America has always been split. It's sad when even ONE American dies for any cause. There is absolutely no way...no way on earth to make a family understand any cause as being just. All a family understands is "my son/daughter is dead". A cause doesn't mean anything to a family when a loved one is lost. This all looks really bad... but I assure you.. it does not rise to the level of inhumanity as past conflicts. Civil War, WWI/II, Korea, Nam. This war could have been in Korea and be sure the death toll on both sides would be immense, I'm sure Korea has it's allies too. Even though China would probably stay nuetral and act like our friends at the table to get Korea to end the conflict... it would be in China's interest to (behind our back), supply Korea with all the materials needed to continue the fight and weaken our country. You may say "well we'd just blow up N. Korea". Well that wouldn't work. Last estimates were that N. Korea could swarm and take S. Korea in a couple days. The DMZ in Korea is only a buffer... that's all it is.
N. Korea would eventually lose..but what makes the death toll so high is.. we can't blow up S. Korea..which is where the N. Koreans would be. So there you are at street to street fighting. Something our Country hates because of the death toll it includes. Many hundreds of thousands would die on both sides.

But as far as the mideast goes...esp Iraq... let's say for arguement..the left is correct. Let's say our President lied about the 'IMMEDIATE' threat of Iraq. Stepping into his shoes for a moment (I could never honestly imagine the weight in them), I am President. At the Oval Office I really have no intel that Iraq is an 'immediate' threat. That in all truthfullness... his weapons of mass destruction have been deminished to the point he's no true threat in the region. But here's what I do look at also.
* Saddam has been under military containment for 12 years.
* He has a history in which I can predict any move he makes under given circumstances.
* His ability to store and use WMD's has deminished greatly because of our intervention (this is a good thing).
* He really is a mad man with alot of support.
* He massacres his own people men/women/children... the mass graves are a fact.
* Given the chance he would reconstitute his WMD's to legendary levels given the chance...this is fact.
* It's one of the richest oil producing countries on earth (one of the), with amazing wealth to use at his discretion.
* This part is very important.......... fact.. the International Sanctions were breaking down...almost every country was doing business behind our back with Saddam. Russia, France, Germany, others. The President knew that once the sanctions were gone... our ability to continue military containment would come to an end as the world would force the issue.
* Saddam is a secular leader posing as a religious leader. Truth be known..he doesn't give a rat's ass about the religion...but posing as a religious leader keeps the masses in check. He can pull the religion card anytime he wants.
* He's an ego maniac that wants the world to fear him..esp his neighbors.

Now the President is left with a choice. If the military containment breaks down entirely...it would be almost impossible to restore it given that the world community is always against us. With no containment... this incredible wealthy country under the current regime could raise a military threat completely unchecked with weapons bad enough to give everybody a nightmare. It's Saddam's ego we would be worried about. So the President is given a choice.
* Fight now while he's weakest lowering the death toll on both sides
* Fight after he reconsitutes his military years later raising the death toll to possibly legendary levels.

All military countries follow a simple rule. Though they may not be the most powerful... be powerful enough that one's enemies would think twice before attacking because the loss on the attackers side would be too high.

The President made the decision... attack while they are weakest and change the regime. Like it or not... sooner or later..we would be fighting Iraq. Ask yourself one question... when would YOU attack?

Personally...I believe that all Saddam's WMD went to Syria in the truck convoys. I'll bet alot is buried in the desert. Remember when we found one of his fighter jets hiden buried under tons of sand? How easy would it be to bury drums of bio/chemical out in the desert? Be impossilbe to find it.

Before anybody let's Saddam off... wait 'til the trials start. You really don't know the man until this happens.

The one thing that sucks about this thing the most is the guerrilla warfare. Damn I knew this was going to happen. We suck at it. We have to mind all the rules of Land, Sea, and Air Warefare, our own laws and acceptable behaviour etc etc etc. One should ask, "what are the insurgents fighting so hard for?" I can answer that. It's about change. It's about women...that's right...it's about women. Think about if for a sec. If you are from that region and women have no rights. If your wife or daughter was raped.. you kill the woman! Why? because she didn't fight back hard enough or entised a man to do it to her! can you believe that? They can be stoned, the man has the last word, she can't say "no". If you're a man in that region and that's the life you are acustomed to, would you want change? would you want women to have rights? Women having rights in the region would totally ruin it for men. No...they don't want change..it would be disasterous. We are used to it...but you have to understand..they are not us..in their world, in their mind...this is an attack on their god, their history, their customs, their laws, their way of life. On the same hand... they want their religion dictated to the masses... any opposing thought would be destroyed. Think about our history... we didn't like the church being part of the Gov't either... it was harsh and people that thought outside of what was dictated by the Church was dealt with by your life.

SS

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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-11-2005, 10:31 PM
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JJ... I forgot to fix one of your points. You said.."Also.... not everyone "volunteers" to go fight illegal wars. Wars based on lies"

Sorry...that doesn't work. One...no soldier volunteers for war in any country on earth... Ancient Greece known as the last democracy... is ancient for a reason.. democracies don't work.

Second.. because we are not a democracy, the President is not going to call me at a barrack and ask my opinion on wheather we should attack or not. We all raised our right hand with the understanding that we just follow orders of the President of the United States.

When soldiers start enjoying the luxury of doing whatever the hell they want...they may someday decide that Americans abuse the Constitution too much and attack our own people. We are only 200 years old... it can happen...happens all over the world. This is one of the greatest reasons that Ancient Rome fell... the military really did whatever they wanted...march on Rome at a moments notice in the 'BELIEF' they were saving Rome. Give our soldiers too much room...some day..they may believe they are saving America. All you need is a charizmatic military leader to start the ball rolling. Even the Founders understood this. Reason why the punishment for not following orders is so high. Reason why we have an understanding of what a Lawful and unlawful order is. No country...and I mean no country is immune to coup d'é·tat. It starts with a misplaced belief that the common soldier needs to save the country from misguided people... probably originating from a power hungry general or other leader.

SS

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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-12-2005, 02:49 PM
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I think it easy to monday morning quaterback this war.. I wish there would be more videos on the good that our soildiers are doing. Our soliers are doing good things everyday, but you hardly hear of any of it. Its tragic that even 1 soldier died, but unfortunatly war is sometimes a nessesary evil. I wish all our service members and there family well. videos like this are designed to make our nation weaker.
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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-12-2005, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STORM SHADOW
Well I'm still in the military and as I looked at that I didn't see any children we sent there. That's a slap against our Adult Volunteer Warriors to call them children. No 'Parent' sends their children to war... not in this country. Individual Warriors 'VOLUNTEER'.

To keep these type of discussions on an intelligent level...let's please leave the children out of this. I don't fall for the "it's for the children" strategy. The 'Child Card' is no better than the race or gender card.

Second. Machievellii would agree that off spring of Leaders should never be in the military because leaders would not be able to make good decisions in the interest of the Country.

This is why our system of Gov't is set up the way it is. If enough don't agree with the President he/she can be impeached or lose the next election or the party loses all together.

Third. All volunteer warriors join with a complete understanding of what could possibly happen and that they are tools of diplomacy. Now if it was Conscription Service... you may have a point.

It's all sad. War is not pretty...none of them are and there is no way to make it sterile. But I assure you.. the less likely the most powerful country is to go to war...the more likely the aggressors against our country are. It's the opinion of many that the only reason that then USSR and USA never had it out was that the USA was totally willing to accept damage on our continent to totally vaporize the USSR. This gave both sides enough time to use peaceful diplomacy to make change. We are both Western Civilizations..so we had common goals... pease was inevitable. But Islamic countries? we share very little at this time in culture, ecomomics, religion, history, etc. A clash of civilizations was inevitable. It is the opinion of many that to make peace... the mid east must become Westernized. As we all know from history, westernizing a region involves a major death toll. In 50 years we'll look back on this and thank God we made it through it. I don't care who's the President of the USA... dem or rep, male or female... one of them would eventually have to make the decision to Westernize the Mid East.

SS

P.S. No two countries ever went to war with each other that had a McD's on each other's soil. Strategy here: Westernize the Mid East..build McD's and 7-11 on every square mile...win the hearts of the women and children. The adult males there will not change...but their time will pass... we already know they are a lost cause. In 20 years.. you'll see I'm right.

Strategy #2: Get women in the Gov't, give them the same rights and protections as American women... they'll learn to say "no!" to the men. Men there will either compromise to the equality of women or turn gay..if ya know what I mean. The key to the mideast is through the women. It's the women who will raise the children to be peaceful little slurpy sippers and burger eaters.

P.P.S. If were not for women in Western Civ.. we would have already destroyed each other. The key to peace is through the women to change the hearts of terrorist wanna be's. Let's be honest here... women do show us sometimes how stupid us men can be.

P.P.S. We will also win after death too. Each terrorist that dies doesn't really get 72 Virgins... that was a joke we made. Actually our Founders meet them... 72 Virginians beating the shit out of the terrorists. It's Virginians! Not Virgins!

SS out


Bro nice POST...A lot of talk but you didnt say much.
You totally missed the point of the movie...WE SHOULD NOT BE THERE AT ALL!!!!
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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-12-2005, 10:05 PM
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I talk alot and don't say much? Ok...I'm outta this thread. I'm not getting into a pissing contest on PM.

SS

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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-13-2005, 01:05 AM
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I understand your frustration SS. Some peoples view of the world is so narrow, they simply are not able to understand. Your post is dead on. Thank you.

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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-13-2005, 02:11 AM
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StormShadow, some people don't understand the concept of logic or long term thinking. For people who understand these concepts, all of your posts make perfect sense. Unfortunately, a lot of people are only able to see that some of our soldiers are dieing with no understanding of why. They don't see the fact that at some point, a change MUST be made in the middle east, just like you said. When it's all over, the whole region will be much happier and better off. We SHOULD be there and we will be until they get enough fuckin' sense to live on their own.

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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-15-2005, 03:02 PM
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I agree with you 100% Storm Shadow....I am ex-military myself, Marines to be exact, and I was over there the first go-round. I am so sick of the cries over the current war. Look, democracy isnt an easy thing to acquire folks. It took us 13 years to go from English rule to the forming of our Bill of Rights. That is a long time and it took lots of fighting and lots of lives. But here we are now, the most powerful nation on this planet. I think the majority of Iraqis do want us there, and will someday come to embrace their freedom. As Winston Churchill once stated "Democracy is the worst from of government....except for all the others." Or something along those lines.
Anyway, there is my $.02.

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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-15-2005, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STORM SHADOW
I talk alot and don't say much? Ok...I'm outta this thread. I'm not getting into a pissing contest on PM.

SS




I dont blame you for leaving this thread , but if you do come back to read it id like to say thanks for some exceptional posts you have made , left or right i think we can all agree with Storm Shadows views and thoughts on a complex matter , he seemed to be able to handle himself in a calm yet powerful manner , SS thanks for speaking the truth brotha .
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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-15-2005, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rescued
I agree with you 100% Storm Shadow....I am ex-military myself, Marines to be exact, and I was over there the first go-round. I am so sick of the cries over the current war. Look, democracy isnt an easy thing to acquire folks. It took us 13 years to go from English rule to the forming of our Bill of Rights. That is a long time and it took lots of fighting and lots of lives. But here we are now, the most powerful nation on this planet. I think the majority of Iraqis do want us there, and will someday come to embrace their freedom. As Winston Churchill once stated "Democracy is the worst from of government....except for all the others." Or something along those lines.
Anyway, there is my $.02.




Another solid post as well . right from the horses mouth a marine who was there , thanks for your support over seas.
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Last edited by Vander_V : 10-15-2005 at 05:22 PM.

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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-16-2005, 12:33 AM
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Thanks alot my friends
Thank you Vander, Rescued, Bigboy, Ferd, Snarf, Crowler, and thanks also go to all the peeps that sent me PM's about this thread and all the support. And thanks goes to JJ Insane.. I'll explain why.

There is no reason for anybody to ever get ugly. There is never a reason to objectify a person... you can say somebody is being an asshole but one shouldn't call somebody an asshole...see the difference? course.. if one calls one an asshole..it's questionable.. but if everybody calls one an asshole.. well I guess that person should smell themself lol.

There is no reason to make this personal. What makes this Country better than any is the fact that in debate.. we use critical thinking to debate our ideas. We use historical reference to understand the present to effect a future. Using historical reference: Area, culture, religion, gov't, economics, resources, influences in the region, influences out of the region, etc. corralate them with the present..we should be able to predict or mold the future at will for the benefit of all.

JJ and I (though complete opposites), have been able to get along because we never attack each other's person. Neither of us simply say "you're fucked up" and that's the end of the post with nothing to explain why one thinks the other is fucked up.

As far as what's going on in Iraq, the few are fighting for the many for 'Independence' from a former 'Form' of Gov't. We went through it too and before you say it's not our fight, many nations were involved in our struggle (for and against), for whatever reason (I don't want to elaborate on this, it's not a class room and it would be a long read). Even after our Constitution was ratified, violence would be the headlines on newspapers for many years even to the Kent State riots not really that long ago.

Our struggle is not even close to being over...it will continue for years and other Countries will still be involved in our struggle as voiced in the (corrupt), UN. You may ask "what struggle?" gawwd I could write for days.. I'll just throw on off the top of my head: Police Brutality. Police are like lawyers, you hate them until you need them. A few of them ruin it for all the police. I see a 64 yr old man pummeled in New Orleans by a bunch of cops. This shit pisses me the fuck off. I have a friend that's 3rd in Command of the State Troopers in my state..his thought is "if you can't take a bunch of cops, bulldog the guy to the ground, cuff him without beating the shit out of him you shouldn't wear a badge". I don't care what the guy did, a bunch of guys can bulldog anybody to the ground and cuff him (well maybe not the guys on this board lol). What else? Black American churches burned to the ground, millions of babies aborted, children having babies and raising them, three strikes your out in CA for anything (this needs tweeked, it's wreckless legislation). Black on black crime, race on race crime, right to privacy, private property rights, Waco Texas Church Massacre, Ruby Ridge, abortion clinics blown up, animal experimtation facilities burned down, gang activity, children challenging adults, Socialism infecting America, open borders, race based poverty (hell I don't know everything, New Orleans scenario gives me something to ponder, I never saw so many poor black people.. this needs fixed, they need good jobs to buy good houses to raise their esteem to get them involved in their own destiny) etc etc etc. The violence continues and we haven't seen shit in real violence.. wait 'til the New World Order raises it's ugly head again... do you want to live under a new Constitution made by the body of other Countries? Do you want our soldiers tried in a World Court? Countries are trying to get that tied into our Treaties, treaties over-ride the Constitution by the way, so far Pres Clinton and Pres Bush said "fuck you". Hillary would say "hmmm"

Iraq now that it's FREE has to go through years of what we went through..the violence continues..it's a struggle to be FREE. Each side of the struggle will rationalize their violence.

Now let's look at the good. I'm watching Fox News right now and I see endless lines of women voters today! What did I say before? The key to some perception of freedom will be in the women.

Attack President Bush all you want. Presidential Historians will write him in as a Freedom Fighter and a genius. A genius you say? Sure.. he was able to free 50 million people in two countries setting off a call for freedom in other countries in the region (domino effect, as other people see freedom spread in Iraq they will insist on the same form of Gov't because freedom means money ). People in other countries will see economic opportunity in Iraq and will move there and prosper. Their homeland will either have to change or lose their workforce and GDP. Money in the countries that have not changed will dry up.
Back to the Genius part... the President was able to do this all while balancing the most important thing...religion. He was able to keep this from becoming a religious war...Christian vs Muslim..the Crusades Part ummm 17? Wasn't there 16 Crusades? can't remember. This could have exploded in his face and the whole region could have seen this as religious and there could have been rivers of blood. I can't believe he pulled this off..but he did. Nobody and I mean no country has been able to pull this off in the mideast.

So where are we now? After the Constitution is voted on..the people will have a vested interest in their OWN Country. It's amendable too! God I'm glad they did that..I wouldn't have voted for it either unless that was included and this was a last minute call. Now after everybody votes and realizes it's THEIR Country.. who's the enemy now? the insurgents... the Great People of Iraq (using other country's history as a reference), will turn on the insurgents... the death toll will raise for a period of time. The call for Independece of the Insurgents will be echoed through the lands because the people will be tired of the violence, they'll want schools to raise kids, churches for Xtians, Muslims, etc., nice houses, jobs, everything we enjoy. The obsticle to luxury is the insurgents, THE HUNT BEGINS.

Stay Tuned.

SS

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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-16-2005, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STORM SHADOW
Thank you Vander, Rescued, Bigboy, Ferd, Snarf, Crowler, and thanks also go to all the peeps that sent me PM's about this thread and all the support. And thanks goes to JJ Insane.. I'll explain why.

There is no reason for anybody to ever get ugly. There is never a reason to objectify a person... you can say somebody is being an asshole but one shouldn't call somebody an asshole...see the difference? course.. if one calls one an asshole..it's questionable.. but if everybody calls one an asshole.. well I guess that person should smell themself lol.

There is no reason to make this personal. What makes this Country better than any is the fact that in debate.. we use critical thinking to debate our ideas. We use historical reference to understand the present to effect a future. Using historical reference: Area, culture, religion, gov't, economics, resources, influences in the region, influences out of the region, etc. corralate them with the present..we should be able to predict or mold the future at will for the benefit of all.

JJ and I (though complete opposites), have been able to get along because we never attack each other's person. Neither of us simply say "you're fucked up" and that's the end of the post with nothing to explain why one thinks the other is fucked up.

As far as what's going on in Iraq, the few are fighting for the many for 'Independence' from a former 'Form' of Gov't. We went through it too and before you say it's not our fight, many nations were involved in our struggle (for and against), for whatever reason (I don't want to elaborate on this, it's not a class room and it would be a long read). Even after our Constitution was ratified, violence would be the headlines on newspapers for many years even to the Kent State riots not really that long ago.

Our struggle is not even close to being over...it will continue for years and other Countries will still be involved in our struggle as voiced in the (corrupt), UN. You may ask "what struggle?" gawwd I could write for days.. I'll just throw on off the top of my head: Police Brutality. Police are like lawyers, you hate them until you need them. A few of them ruin it for all the police. I see a 64 yr old man pummeled in New Orleans by a bunch of cops. This shit pisses me the fuck off. I have a friend that's 3rd in Command of the State Troopers in my state..his thought is "if you can't take a bunch of cops, bulldog the guy to the ground, cuff him without beating the shit out of him you shouldn't wear a badge". I don't care what the guy did, a bunch of guys can bulldog anybody to the ground and cuff him (well maybe not the guys on this board lol). What else? Black American churches burned to the ground, millions of babies aborted, children having babies and raising them, three strikes your out in CA for anything (this needs tweeked, it's wreckless legislation). Black on black crime, race on race crime, right to privacy, private property rights, Waco Texas Church Massacre, Ruby Ridge, abortion clinics blown up, animal experimtation facilities burned down, gang activity, children challenging adults, Socialism infecting America, open borders, race based poverty (hell I don't know everything, New Orleans scenario gives me something to ponder, I never saw so many poor black people.. this needs fixed, they need good jobs to buy good houses to raise their esteem to get them involved in their own destiny) etc etc etc. The violence continues and we haven't seen shit in real violence.. wait 'til the New World Order raises it's ugly head again... do you want to live under a new Constitution made by the body of other Countries? Do you want our soldiers tried in a World Court? Countries are trying to get that tied into our Treaties, treaties over-ride the Constitution by the way, so far Pres Clinton and Pres Bush said "fuck you". Hillary would say "hmmm"

Iraq now that it's FREE has to go through years of what we went through..the violence continues..it's a struggle to be FREE. Each side of the struggle will rationalize their violence.

Now let's look at the good. I'm watching Fox News right now and I see endless lines of women voters today! What did I say before? The key to some perception of freedom will be in the women.

Attack President Bush all you want. Presidential Historians will write him in as a Freedom Fighter and a genius. A genius you say? Sure.. he was able to free 50 million people in two countries setting off a call for freedom in other countries in the region (domino effect, as other people see freedom spread in Iraq they will insist on the same form of Gov't because freedom means money [big motivator]). People in other countries will see economic opportunity in Iraq and will move there and prosper. Their homeland will either have to change or lose their workforce and GDP. Money in the countries that have not changed will dry up.
Back to the Genius part... the President was able to do this all while balancing the most important thing...religion. He was able to keep this from becoming a religious war...Christian vs Muslim..the Crusades Part ummm 17? Wasn't there 16 Crusades? can't remember. This could have exploded in his face and the whole region could have seen this as religious and there could have been rivers of blood. I can't believe he pulled this off..but he did. Nobody and I mean no country has been able to pull this off in the mideast.

So where are we now? After the Constitution is voted on..the people will have a vested interest in their OWN Country. It's amendable too! God I'm glad they did that..I wouldn't have voted for it either unless that was included and this was a last minute call. Now after everybody votes and realizes it's THEIR Country.. who's the enemy now? the insurgents... the Great People of Iraq (using other country's history as a reference), will turn on the insurgents... the death toll will raise for a period of time. The call for Independece of the Insurgents will be echoed through the lands because the people will be tired of the violence, they'll want schools to raise kids, churches for Xtians, Muslims, etc., nice houses, jobs, everything we enjoy. The obsticle to luxury is the insurgents, THE HUNT BEGINS.

Stay Tuned.

SS



Great post brotha , hey if you dont mind me asking what kind of educational backround do you have im not saying its better to have a degree just kinda wondering , and how old are you? you speak very well and seem to contain alot of knowledge , for a BBing site thats rare .
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http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-16-2005, 11:40 AM
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Thank you Vander. I'd tell you about my education but nobody ever believes me except the people that were there.

SS

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[STRYFE]

I hope this type of debate goes on frequently here.

[JJ Insane1]

Thank you Big A for moving my debate over to your new board.
I wish the american (majority already has) would wake up!

Bush is not only fucking the world... he is fucking his own country.

Ohhhh... but its coming... just like Hitler - sooner or later, they all crumble.

JJ Insane1

[STORM SHADOW]

Thank you Big A for moving my debate over to your new board.
I wish the american (majority already has) would wake up!

Bush is not only fucking the world... he is fucking his own country.

Ohhhh... but its coming... just like Hitler - sooner or later, they all crumble.

JJ Insane1


pfffffffffffft!

SS