Who is Allah ??? [Archive] - DiscussWorldIssues

sahar mohammed

03-05-2007, 12:10 AM

Some of the biggest misconceptions that many non-Muslims have about Islam have to do with the word "Allah". For various reasons, many people have come to believe that Muslims worship a different God than Christians and Jews. This is totally false, since "Allah" is simply the Arabic word for "God"- and there is only One God. Let there be no doubt - Muslims worship the God of Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus - peace be upon them all. However, it is certainly true that Jews, Christians and Muslims all have different concepts of Almighty God. For example, Muslims - like Jews - reject the Christian beliefs of the Trinity and the Divine Incarnation. This, however, doesn't mean that each of these three religions worships a different God - because, as we have already said, there is only One True God.

First of all, it is important to note that "Allah" is the same word that Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews use for God. If you pick up an Arabic Bible, you will see the word "Allah" being used where "God" is used in English. This is because "Allah" is the only word in the Arabic language equivalent to the English word "God" with a capital "G". Additionally, the word "Allah" cannot be made plural or given gender (i.e. masculine or feminine), which goes hand-in-hand with the Islamic concept of God. Because of this, and also because the Qur'an was revealed in the Arabic language

,some Muslims use the word "Allah" for "God", even when they are speaking other languages. This is not unique to the word "Allah", since many Muslims tend to use Arabic words when discussing Islamic issues, regardless of the language which they speak. This is because the universal teachings of Islam - even though they have been translated in every major language - have been preserved in the Arabic language.

It is interesting to note that the Aramaic word "El", which is the word for God in the language that Jesus spoke, is certainly more similar in sound to the word "Allah" than the English word "God". This also holds true for the various Hebrew words for God, which are "El" and "Elah", and the plural form "Elohim". The reason for these similarities is that Aramaic, Hebrew and Arabic are all Semitic languages with common origins. It should also be noted that in translating the Bible into English, the Hebrew word "El" is translated variously as "God","god" ; and "angel"! This imprecise language allows different translators, based on their preconceived notions, to translate the word to fit their own views. The Arabic word "Allah" presents no such difficulty or ambiguity, since it is only used for Almighty God alone. Additionally, in English, the only difference between "god", meaning a false god, and "God", meaning the One True God, is the capital "G". In the Arabic alphabet, since it does not have capital letters, the word for God (i.e. Allah) is formed by adding the equivalent to the English word "the"(Al-) to the Arabic word for "god/God"(ilah). So the Arabic word "Allah" literally it means "The God"- the "Al-" in Arabic basically serving the same function as the capital "G" in English. Due to the above mentioned facts, a more accurate translation of the word "Allah" into English might be "The One -and-Only God" or "The One True God".

SO saying that I worship Allah is exactly the same as saying I worship God,the one true God, God of all prophets (Abraham, moses, jesus , Muhammed )peace be upon all of them

peace,
salaam

Big A

03-09-2007, 03:08 AM

sahar mohammed

03-09-2007, 10:39 PM

Good post.

Thank you (Big A)

peace
salaam

Conan21

03-12-2007, 04:50 AM

sahar mohammed

03-12-2007, 08:40 PM

who do Muslims think is the Creator of the Universe. I know you say God but thats a generic term.

Do you mean Yaweh or Jehovah?

Why does God refer to himself in the plural from in the book of Genesis?

who are false gods?

Did Yaweh (God of the Jews/christians/muslims) create Man?

Good questions Mr conan, let me explain
like I said in my post (it is certainly true that Jews, Christians and Muslims all have different concepts of Almighty God. For example, Muslims - like Jews - reject the Christian beliefs of the Trinity and the Divine Incarnation. This, however, doesn't mean that each of these three religions worships a different God - because, as we have already said, there is only One True God.)

Allah (God) is the only God who sent all the prophets , do you believe in God of Noah, Abraham , Moses , Jesus ?? if you do then we are talking about the same God , but the different concepts that came in each religion after that wasn't from God but from what man write with his hand pretending it's from God and that what lead to different conceptions of the one God
and what I mean here is the corruption that happened in the holy book after it was sent by God

2:79 Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

So , God sent prophet Muhammed as the last prophet to all mankind to guide them to the right way that they were derived away from it ,
the same God that sent prophet Muhammed the same God that sent Moses , Jesus , Noah ,Abraham (peace be upon all of them )

I believe in Jesus and his message . the difference is that the christians look to God and Jesus as father and his son , I look to God and Jesus as God and his prophet .. but we are talking about the same God who sent the bible and the Quran ..the same source that Jewish , christianity and Islam came from . they all came from one source , and from one God ,

29:46 say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."

but like I said the corruptions that happened in the holy books that was sent before the Quran lead people to have wrong conceptions about God , they made him 2 and 3 .the father , the son , the holy spirit , but he is one in Islam and both the son and holy spirits are not Gods but there is only one God

4:171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

Even in the bible Jesus spoke about the God that sent him saying

(John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.)

whom you have sent , this is the God that I believe in , Who sent Jesus Christ and all the prophets
and also

(John 20:17 Jesus said,"Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them,'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'")

my God and your God ..there is only one God the almighty

peace,
salaam

Conan21

03-12-2007, 09:28 PM

good explanation on the beliefs of each religion. Of the 3, I think Muslim seems the most legitimate when you put it how you do.

However, What I was talking about is how are you sure that who you read about in the Bible is really God?

The most ancient and most detailed records of the book of Genesis and also all of the stories of the Old testament are from ancient Sumeria. The records are written in cuneiform script on stone tablets. there are 22,000 in all and these are on display in a British Musem.

I think this is something you should look into in reguards to who you might think "GOD" is in these historical documents.

Here is a just a handful of passages from our Modern bible that should arouse your suspicion.

And the Lord said, "Behold, the man is become as one of US, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever" (Genesis 3:22)

Come Let US go down, and there confound their language.. (Genesis 11:7)

and God said: Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness (Genesis:1:26)

Behold the man is become as one of US (Genesis 3:22)

And the Kind said to her, be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw Gods ascending out of the earth (I Samuel 28:13)

Why is God referring to himself as US,OUR,WE....something to think about and possibly look into.

What do Muslims believe about Jesus resurrecting? I would imagine that if you believe the Bible then how could a man claim to be the son of God and then come to life again after being dead for 3 days? That sure sounds like some devine intervention to me? Or do Muslims and Jews believe that part of the story is a lie? If I was a Christian, I sure would have a problem with JEWS since they are the ones who put Jesus to death because they didn't like what he had to say and then even after he rises from the dead they still reject him. Total slap in the face if you believe this story to be true.

Personally, I believe the entire New Testament is exagerated/fabricated stories and false truths that relate to other things.

sahar mohammed

03-13-2007, 02:35 PM

Mr conan

I as a muslim must believe in the bible that it was sent by God but which bible? . the bible that exist those days ?? No . but I believe in the bible that was really sent by God to Jesus christ , however , this bible don't exist any more since people modified many things in it , and lots of verses have been changed , the bible become the word of man not the word of God .
christians people start saying that Jesus is the son of man , the son of God , God him self . but he was only a prophet ,like all prophets that came before him that was sent by the only God
the bible that exist now contain many false stories and many errors .

4:82 Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.

The part when you said
Why is God referring to himself as US,OUR,WE . well that exist also in the Quran and there is nothing wrong with that .when a great king start talking about himself he use the word (we) ( we decided , we wish , we ordered ) so the word (we) is used because of the greatness of the speaker .

About your question
What do Muslims believe about Jesus resurrecting ..the story that exist in the bible contain many lies and many false informations.
muslim believe that Jesus is the son of Mary . not God nor the son of God

10:68 They say: "(Allah) hath begotten a son!" - Glory be to Him! He is self- sufficient! His are all things in the heavens and on earth! No warrant have ye for this! say ye about Allah what ye know not?

Muslims believe that he was never crucified. he wasn't buried nor he raised from death ,that only what man write with his own hands in the bible
but God saved his prophet from being crucified and raised him from earth .
the one who crucified wasn't Jesus

4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

3:55 Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

but like I said the corruptions that happened in the holy books that was sent before the Quran lead people to have wrong conceptions about Jesus christ .and people derived from the straight way .

So , God sent prophet Muhammed as the last prophet to all mankind to guide them to the right way that they were derived away from it ,
the same God that sent prophet Muhammed the same God that sent Moses , Jesus , Noah ,Abraham (peace be upon all of them )

Conan21

03-13-2007, 10:25 PM

Some of those passages do not look familiar to me. I am assuming that they are from the the Quran.

To me it seems strange that you think it is perfectly normal for God to refer to himself as we,us,and our. I have never heard of a King referring to himself in the plural form. I think you are believing what you want to believe.

The point I was trying to make is this:

These Sumerian tablets of creation are the most ancient records of the old testament. The oldest known to man. They were merely historical records. Not holy books or should I say Mind control Books. They were not modified to consile the truth or gain power over people. If you consider yourself a truth seeker and a holy man you need to look into this and then re-evaluate religion all together. To me, Yaweh, Jahova, Allah was a tyrant and god of war.

Who is the bible referring to when they speak of the Elohim? Nephelim? Sons of God who bread with the daughters of Man? Giants that walked the earth, and other passags that talk about 'gods'?

Have you ever studied Paganism? Do you know the hidden astrological story behind the Jesus story that they present to us and what we are leading up to in the very very near future?

All that Religion has been used for is Mind control and to create controversy. Something that is supposed to teach goodness has brought more death and destruction to man than any other thing that has ever existed. Jews vs Muslims, crusades, witch hunts, Jihads. all nonsense.

If there is real GOD out there I would ask him to please save us from religion

sahar mohammed

03-14-2007, 01:00 AM

Mr conan

the verses or passegs that I wrote is from the Quran , the only true words of God ,

This use of the plural is for amplification, and is called a “plural of majesty” or a “plural of emphasis,” and is used for intensification
you know , I saw an arabic movie before where a king was talking to his guard and told him ( we decided to promote you ) , you see ,( it was a historical movie ) , many kings in the past used (we ) all the time when they want to announce some thing to their people , it's used to show the greatness of the speaker , it's strange that you never heard about it before

You keep asking me about the bible and some stories that exist in it , I don't believe in the verses that exist today in the bible so how do you want me to defend it ??, it was modified , the original versions of the bible are missing , In another word ,lost . I only believe that God sent the bible but it was courrupted and changed .it's now no more than a book of man since man fabricated many stories in it that God never ordered them to write . like what you mentioned (Sons of God who bread with the daughters of Man ) , yes , that is nonsense and one of the false stories that exist ..

so God sent the Quran as the last holy book to all mankind to guide them to the only true God ,

15:9 We have, without doubt, sent down the Message( Quran) ; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

You called me truth seeker , but I've already found the truth , I found it in Islam . I found it in believing in the only true God . who sent all the prophets
,
I am a Muslim and there is nothing wrong with being a Muslim, . It just teaches us to believe in Allah as the God. Christians are probably believe in the same God, because I think you believe in the God Who created the universe. That's the One we believe in, the One Who created universe--the only difference being you call Him God and we call Him Allah. The Jews call Him Jehovah. If you could understand Hebrew, you would probably call Him Jehovah too. If you could understand Arabic, you would probably call Him Allah...."

Muslims believe that God is One, indivisible, and they believe in all the prophets of the Christians and Jews including Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Job, Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, Elias, Jonah, John the Baptist, and Jesus (peace be upon them).

Muslims also recognize another prophet named Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family), who is a direct descendant of Abraham through his first born son, Ishmael. His prophethood is prophesied in the Bible in several places,

you asked me about Paganism and I know exactly what is Paganism . and it's what exist in the bible .the trinity .I don't believe in the trinity and that God is 3 in one and has 3 shapes and 3 names . that is Paganism
But Islam told us to worshipe the only God , Who created the whole universe , who sent Jesus as a prophet not as his son . who sent Muhammed after Jesus as the last prophet to mankind .

when you said you want to ask God to save you from religion is because you can't feel the greatness of following God's religion , Gods words . have you ever prayed to God to show you the right way ?? to show you the truth ?
if you didn't then you must do it . you won't lose any thing but will gain a lot than what you can imagine

Conan21

03-14-2007, 02:09 AM

So basically you are putting all of your faith into one book called the Quran and neglecting all other historical records, some of which are 6,000 years old which are written in the most ancient text know to man inscribed in stone? They are all counterfeit correct?

The Mayan have the most accurate calendar ever created. It is astronomical precision which they claim was given to them by the gods and derived from the tree of life. So you’re saying that these people were lying about this but were so smart that they were able to predict universal cycles thousands of years into the future with no telescopes or advanced technology?

This is what I mean by Religion is used for violence. Muslim and Jews fight over an ancient story in the bible involving Isaac and Ishmael. People strap bombs on themselves in the name of ALLAH. Jews/Muslims fight to this day yet neglect God's word of thou' shall not kill and love thy neighbor. Why not just it go? This is how I say Religion destroys the world.

I'm not sure you understand paganism. Its hard to summarize but allot of it involves the worship or at least the acknowledgement of natural things. The Jesus story is a story of astrology and we are currently in the last days of Passover.

I do not believe in the god that the Muslims, Catholics, or Jews worship. In my Opinion the creator of the universe, assuming there is one, has not visited this planet.

sahar mohammed

03-14-2007, 02:32 AM

conan
I'm not a bible scholar but I searched , compared and read about different religions .. In all what I have read and found out lead me to be absolute sure that there is no holy book other than the Quran ( the only true word of God) .
I'm not an archaeologist , but what I've found by searching and reading between other religions made me sure that the only true way to follow is the way of Islam .
( religion basics and teachings ).

By the way you talked about The Mayan , let me give you better example, the pharaohs , they reached things that we still till today arguing about , and they lived more than 7000 years ago, and knew many things that we still learning those days .. but they worshipped what ? Gods , male and female, sacred animals, humans with heads of animals and fully human.. where those Gods now???

so what I want to say is that to discover a great discovery is something and to worship the true God is something else ..you can be a rocket scientist but this how ever doesn't mean that your religion beliefs is true . and the best prove for that is the pharaohs , the ancient Egyptians , they were rocket scientists ( you sure know about the Egyptian civilization ) but most of them followed the wrong way , they used to worships animals and stones . can you imagine conan?

you said ( In my Opinion the creator of the universe, assuming there is one, has not visited this planet.)

This is exactly what I believe in as a Muslim

p.s .. sorry for my English , you have to excuse me since English is not my first language

Big A

03-14-2007, 08:55 AM

sahar mohammed

03-14-2007, 03:54 PM

Just a quick clarification for both of you from reading your posts:

Conan is not religious. He believes that all religions (muslim, christian, jew, hindu, etc, etc) are brain washing tools to control the masses. I happen to agree with that. So he is looking at the different religions with an impartial look.

And Sahar is a girl. A very smart one at that too ;)

Hello (big A)

Thank you so much for the clarification
I noticed that he's not religious when he said (If there is real GOD out there I would ask him to please save us from religion )

.And thank you for the other clarification .

Conan21

03-15-2007, 02:45 AM

I guess the point I was trying to make was that since the Sumerian tablets were extremely old there really is no way that these had been modified by religious groups. They talk about how man came to be etc. and it wasn't by GOD.

actually the Egyptians had alot of different beliefs. Some seperated by time frame others by class of citizenship. I actually think they were smarter about religion than we are today. A popular religion back then was SUN God worship. Some used the Story of Horus to make it elaborate. Its no different than the Jesus story. Jesus and Horus both represent the same thing.

Technically you are wrong when you say Muslims,Christians and Jews worship the same God. Because Christians whether they know it or not are worshipping the SUN that is in the sky that comes up every morning.

On the issue of Religion and God.

Do you think any of us really need a holy book or prophet to teach us how to be a good person? Is it really necessary?

In your opinion, is religion more about worshipping a diety? or loving yourself, your family and neighbor and doing good things?

sahar mohammed

03-15-2007, 11:07 AM

Hi conan
about the Sumerian tablets . there was misunderstanding that happed with me . I got confused , I didn't know if you were talking about the Sumerian tablets (the historical ) or the Sumerian bible .
ok . now I can see where all the misunderstanding came from . I guess I have to modify one of my previous posts to make things clear

About the Egyptians . I must say that you can't compare between the story of Jesus ( the true story ) and Horus
but you can compare between the story of Jesus that exist in the bible today and Horus (then you will see the common belief)

Christians don't worship sun God ( I think ) but they worship other Gods beside the only God, in a way that they even don't understand .they start worship Jesus , the holy spirit beside the only God . If you asked a christian about how can God be born from Mary and did all the stuff that young babys do till he grow up and then got arrested and tortured then died , how can God humiliate himself in this way ?
I asked a christian about that once and he said , you just have to believe so you would be saved
I just have to believe or I just have to close my mind and don't think ??

In islam . God is one ,and no other Gods beside the only true God , He didn't come to earth in any human body (glory be to him from all that nonsense)
but instead he sent prophets to man kind ,and sent to us the Quran as the last holy book to be sent to humans to follow

you asked me Do you think any of us really need a holy book or prophet to teach us how to be a good person? Is it really necessary?

Conan , why do you think every country in the whole world have laws ?
really why ? is it necessary ?
so the people (the citizens ) must follow ?? why ?

I think you agree with me when I say ,to guide them to know whats acceptable and whats not in the country ,and this laws is their identity of belonging to this country

and what would happen If some one broke the laws ?
he will be punished for that

Do you think that your country's law is more important than your God's law ?

The holy book is the laws of God for his creatures to know him and to know what's acceptable and what's not , to follow the straight way is by following the law of God . to feel the value of your life is by following the law of God , to feel the importance of existence is by following the law of God , to win in life and after life is by following the law of God
It's like you'r identity of belonging to God , your creator. and there is nothing can make you more proud than worshipping God and following his prophet's teachings

Without his laws we will lose our humanity . ... what is the difference between us and animals in your opinion ??
. Animals don't need laws because they live by their nature (their nature laws) , but unlike animals we need laws because beside the nature that exist in us , God gave us what he didn't gave to animals ,the mind,

.. the mind to think , to decide, to chose . and because we have that mind we must have laws that will show us how we can use our mind the right way . Animals don't need laws to depend on because they don't have the mind and intelligent that we have so they can only live with their nature

did you know now why we need the laws of God ??
because we need God but he doesn't need us , he's the one who gave us life and he's the one who gave us meaning and value to our life and our existence..there are no laws worthy to be followed other than his

IF you felt the connection between you and your creator that he's beside you , sees you , knows what's in your heart more than you do , and he's always with you to guide you and to show you the true way in life ,then you will feel the happiness , the power, the secure in your heart ,mind and soul that will last forever

13:28 "Those who believe, and whose hearts find satisfaction in the remembrance of Allah. for without doubt in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find satisfaction.

God never leave his creatures but some people leave their creator , and it's shame to live your life and die without knowing why you were alive for the first place

Conan21

03-15-2007, 06:38 PM

If you look at statistics......

There is no correlation between someone who follows religion being a more moral person than someone who does not follow religion or is an atheist. Actually, on the contrary, a lot of studies show the opposite.

Here is one example, The Swedish population has a very high percentage of people who do not believe in GOD yet are more civilized and have more money than most countries when you take into consideration how small they are.

If the Qumran is best holy book, why are so many Muslims so violent? I can see being upset about things and having disputes but by killing others isn't that breaking one of God's number 1 rules?

Why do they treat their women so poorly?

If you look at the disputes going on today in the world, how many of them in some way shape or form are being done for religious reasons?

You pose a good question in regards to Christianity but I think you as well have blind faith if you refuse to look at other historical records, books, and artifacts.

In regards to the Jesus story, they most certainly do worship the sun. As you stated the story they present to us is entirely false yet that is the story that Christians have been taught to believe and base their entire faith upon and it is nothing more than an elaborate story about cycles of the universe. We are currently living out the transition period to one of those cycles right now.

sahar mohammed

03-15-2007, 10:05 PM

conan when it comes to statistics . I think you're totally wrong in that
religion do affect people in every thing in their life .
If we took America for example . America separated religion from social life , and what's called freedom of religion I call it freedom from religion
and what was the results ?

Kerby Anderson speaks about it ( he is the president of Probe Ministries International ) . He said

(In America, the crime clock continues to click: one murder every 22 minutes, one rape every 5 minutes, one robbery every 49 seconds, and one burglary every 10 seconds. And the cost of crime continues to mount: $78 billion for the criminal justice system, $64 billion for private protection, $202 billion in loss of life and work, $120 billion in crimes against business, $60 billion in stolen goods and fraud, $40 billion from drug abuse, and $110 billion from drunk driving. When you add up all the costs, crime costs Americans a stunning $675 billion each year.)
he also said
(The Crime Rate Is Increasing

The recent string of heinous crimes does not represent a sudden wave of crime in America. Violent crime actually has been steadily increasing since the 1960s (though violent crime rates did dip for a time during the early 1980s). But in addition to the steady increase of crime has been the changing nature of these )

Probe Ministries is a non-profit corporation whose mission is to reclaim the primacy of Christian thought and values in Western culture through media, education, and literature. .

you see they want religion back in their lifes . millions of problems appeared because of the absence of religion's teachings and values

about the example that you said (The Swedish population ) well , there is difference between what you said at first and the example you gave
you were talking about morals and gave me an example about the country's progress .
But any way . that example has nothing to do with being religious . because God is fair with every one of his creatures whether they were religious or not , when some one work hard , sure he will be rewarded and will gain the fruit of his work

4:40 Allah is never unjust in the least degree

God is fair with all his creatures

the difference between some one believes and work hard and some one who don't believe and still work hard that the first one won in life and won in the other life . his rewards will be continued even after his death and for sure God's reward for the believers is million times better than all this life . but the other one his rewards ends when his life ends .

here's a conversation I've read before between a believer and non believer

the believer said. you deny that there is another life after death but I believe in that right ?
the non believer : yes , right
the believer : so one of us must be right and the other one is wrong
the non believer: yes
the believer : If you were right and we died and found that their is nothing after life then I will not lose any thing and you will gain nothing .right
the non believer : right
the believer : but if I were right then I will win a great winning and you will lose a great lost , right?
the non believer : yes , I will
the believer : so I , with my faith will win any way , and you will win nothing any way (whether their was life after death or not ) , but instead in both cases you will lose a huge lost and no chance of winning any thing .. right
the non believer : yes , right
the believer :so the best thing for you is to leave the way that would lead to nothing , no winning at all but instead it will lead you to a huge lost in every way ,and start believing in the true way . the way of your creator ,who did not create you for nothing . but he create every one and every thing for a reason
that was the conversation conan . don't you think that the believer man is right ? why following a way with a dead end ? .sure what they mentioned in the conversation was only one of the reasons of why we should believe ..
I don't think I need to tell you what was the result at the end of the conversation

3:191 Men who celebrate the praises of Allah, standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and contemplate the (wonders of) creation in the heavens and the earth, (With the thought): "Our Lord! not for naught Hast Thou created (all) this! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire.

you asked me about If the Quran is best holy book, why are so many Muslims so violent?
they are not conan . but those who are is because religion of God is perfect but people are not perfect , not even close to perfection ,
if you were at a school taking an exam , and all your friends who took the same exam succeeded but you failed , should you blame the subject of the exam or should you blame yourself for not studying and preparing for the exam while other people did

It's the same story with religious people . the majority of the muslims follow the true words of God and live with it but what can you do for those who refused to live by the orders of God .should you blame them or blame their religion ?
in every religion you will find the extremists . religion is totally innocent from them and not responsible for their actions , but they are responsible for their action , and they have to handle it in front of God and in front of law
but the majority follow the orders of God and his prophet .

I've read before an artical from an American who came to visit Egypt ( and you know it's an islamic country) . I loved his words and I saved it in my computer .. I didn't know that one day I would need to use his words

He said exactly

(That brings me to today, and to a real test to see how safe Americans are in Cairo. I began by visiting the Citadel, which is no problem at all. There is lots of security there. I was mainly interested in photographing the Mosque of Muhammad Ali, and getting some shots from the ramparts that overlook the city. However, my real goal for the day was wondering down the common market that stretches from the Khan el-Khalili almost all the way to the Citadel. I know the occasional tourist sometimes finds his or her way into the maze of small streets in old Islamic Cairo, but today it seems that I was the only foreigner about. At least I saw no others.
People frequently ask me about safety in Egypt, and I believe Egypt is very safe. Certainly, there are always bad people somewhere, whether in the streets of New York, London, Paris or where ever one might travel, including Egypt. It is the way of the world
I have always found Egyptians to be honest, peaceful and hospitable souls. They are a kind, civilized people who, after all, invented civilization. Nothing seems to have changed. As I walked through this rather poor neighborhood, I was not really surprised by how welcome I felt. Here, shop owners are not at all aggressive, but they smile, and the children come to offer you their greetings. At one point, tired and exhausted, I found an empty chair beside a shop that sold building supplies, and was welcomed by the owner to sit and rest a while, even though neither of us could understand the other’s language.
they really are moderates religiously..I made no secret that I was an American, and by the way, it was just me on this walk. I took no Egyptian friends along. People would ask my nationality, being he curious people that they are, and I would always come straight out and tell them American. Nevertheless, there was never, ever a hostile stare or an unfriendly glance. On the contrary, the experience warmed me as only common Egyptian folk can. They are such a lovely people, full of life, beautiful and wonderfully hospitable )
ok ..as you see the majority are moderates religiously. most of the fights that you see is all because of politicals gains not religious gains . terrorism has no religion

you said (I think you as well have blind faith if you refuse to look at other historical records, books, and artifacts ) ,
and who says that I don't ???!!!!! what makes you think that ??
I've already said before that I 've read , searched and compared till I found the truth stands clear , I assume that I wasn't talking to myself when I said that , was I ?!

ok, I said too many things in the post . sorry if it was long , but there were things that I couldn't just not write because of it's importance to the subject . think about what I've said in this post ( especially the conversation I mentioned ) I want to know your opinion

Conan21

03-17-2007, 12:48 AM

I live in America and I can tell you the vast majority of people believe in Catholicism so it’s not like all these people committing crimes are atheists.

Just for the record. I do not think religion is necessarily bad. I just don't like organized religion. I think true religion would combine true history, science, astronomy/astrology, Philosophy, spirituality, quantum physiques, and an exchange of ideas about things that are unknown. I definitely think that there should be something for people to learn goodness from but it should also exist for enlightenment and expansion of the mind. Modern religions just want to cram things down your throat and tell you how it is and that’s that.

I'm sure not all Muslims are bad. But I never see Christians killing people in the name of Christ and having Jihads in modern day. I'm just saying there have been allot of negative groups and people that have used Islam as their selling point. I know you say it’s the persons fault not Islam but do you see my point in that people use this religion stuff to get personal agendas accomplished? And for the record, YES, the same can be said about other religions too.

Think of how much we as a people have grown technologically over the last thousand years. Leaps and Bounds. Now think of how much we have grown spiritually and our knowledge of ourselves and our place in the universe. We have not grown at all and for good reason. Powers that be don't want us to. What mysteries do you think Secret Societies hold? Being that all of the most powerful people in the world belong to them in some shape or form, should at least raise some eye brows. Do you think it’s all just about secret handshakes?

As far as your conversation with the non believer that really does not relate to me as I DO believe in an after life or some other form of existence once we die on earth. I just don't look at the bible or modern religions the same way others do knowing things that I know.

Also, I apologize if I offended you with saying that you have blind faith. I think you misunderstood me a little bit. I meant you need to do more than study all of modern day organized religion. Studying ancient Religion, Ancient History, Religions/Mythologies of the indians, celtic people, germanic tribes, Paganism, as well and learn what you can about secrets that Secret Fraternities hold and you can begin to piece things together.

kawasaki1

03-17-2007, 05:17 AM

here's a conversation I've read before between a believer and non believer

the believer said. you deny that there is another life after death but I believe in that right ?
the non believer : yes , right
the believer : so one of us must be right and the other one is wrong
the non believer: yes
the believer : If you were right and we died and found that their is nothing after life then I will not lose any thing and you will gain nothing .right
the non believer : right
the believer : but if I were right then I will win a great winning and you will lose a great lost , right?
the non believer : yes , I will
the believer : so I , with my faith will win any way , and you will win nothing any way (whether their was life after death or not ) , but instead in both cases you will lose a huge lost and no chance of winning any thing .. right
the non believer : yes , right
the believer :so the best thing for you is to leave the way that would lead to nothing , no winning at all but instead it will lead you to a huge lost in every way ,and start believing in the true way . the way of your creator ,who did not create you for nothing . but he create every one and every thing for a reason

This is a very good point that makes excellent sense!! In the end, it is better to live life as the believer, then to be the non-believer and pay the ultimate price!!! My personal beliefs...I'm not sure, I would like to believe, BUT, sometimes it seems as though Conan is totally correct with people being breeded into cattle to be controlled?! Who truly knows for sure?!

sahar mohammed

03-17-2007, 07:49 AM

This is a very good point that makes excellent sense!! In the end, it is better to live life as the believer, then to be the non-believer and pay the ultimate price!!! My personal beliefs...I'm not sure, I would like to believe, BUT, sometimes it seems as though Conan is totally correct with people being breeded into cattle to be controlled?! Who truly knows for sure?!

Hello kawasaki1
Once you believe kawasaki1 you will feel the absolute freedom and secure that you can't feel by doing any thing else . no body and nothing in the world will control you .. But to follow the way of God that will end you to a huge winning in this life and after life is what really worth to live for
And like I said to conan before
to believe It's like your identity of belonging to God , your creator. and there is nothing can make you more proud than worshipping God alone and following his prophet's teachings
you will feel the happiness , the power, the secure in your heart ,mind and soul that will last forever . sure that feeling worth to believe for
and with the great reward that you gonna get by believing and following the orders of God worth much more than life itself
If I promised you that nothing and no one in the world will control you by believing in God because simply you'r not gonna follow people's word but you're gonna follow you God's word.God alone and no one beside him ,would you then believe ?

sahar mohammed

03-17-2007, 12:14 PM

Hello conan

you said that the majority of people believe in Catholicism, Yes the majority follow nonsense, not the true religion of God that he sent , My point exactly

And religion enlightenment and expansion the mind, but which religion ? . all religions ? No ,certainly not . but the true religion of God not the man made religion
. that the religion you will find the power and the freedom by following it

you said you never see Christians killing people in the name of Christ. well I've seen them before . don't you remember when the black and the white issue where on it's top in America and the white people used to kill black people in the name of Christ saying that it's the orders of bible even some white men used the bible teachings to justify their horrible actions to the black people , some of these groups symbol was the cross .. these actions were terrorists actions for sure , I just wanted to give you one example that terrorists are every where .

ok . but I think the main subject here has to do with jihad

First let me tell you that the word jihad in Arabic means struggle
and it comes in different ways , or you can say levels

there is a jihad with the devil , that means to protect yourself from him and his bad way
there is a jihad with the self , which means to follow the true way and protect yourself from making sins and mistakes so you won't derived to the wrong way ,
there is a jihad with money , to spend your money on what's satisfy your God
there is also the jihad which refers to war and simply it means defending the self , the jihad in Islam is to defend yourself , your family , your country , your beliefs , your nation for the sake of Allah from those who fight you ,
the meaning of Jihad is obvious in this verse that says :

2:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

Those who fight you , it's a defend of the self from those who fight us ,
you don't start a fight but if some one attacked you then you have the right to defend your self
it's hard when some one attacks you and your family to just sit down and say please continue but instead you have the right to defend your self from those who fight you , that's is jihad
and that is something that every one in the whole world can understand
and even when you are defending your self from those who attacked you ,you don't have the right to do what ever it takes to defend your self but in Islam there are limits that you're not allowed to cross

when we see all those wars in the world today , you see that the right side and the bad side mixed , it become hard to know who is the war hero and who is the war criminal, and there is alot of mysteries protocol behind the wars that we see today and lots of political benefits behind it so if you gonna judge just by what you see in TV then your judgment is not right , not even close .

ok , you also said that you believe in another life after death . and that's is great but not enough , not enough at all to have the great winning after life

It takes more than that , If you believe in the only true God who created the universe (the same thing I believe ) then why don't you complete the journey of believing and following the truth ??

the way to paradise starts with believing in God but it doesn't end with the same point .....you took the first step then you should be ready for the second step , the third step , the forth step ........ and all the steps that comes after believing till you reach the true way of God that worth much more than life itself

you believe in God but you don't believe in his words ,his prophets that he sent to guide us ,his holy book , .......
If you believe in God then do you think that this God created you without sending any guiding to show you the true way ??
sure he send guidance to his creatures and didn't let them

And by the way , there is no need to apologize at all , but I think you made a good point with what you said and that's exactly what I did . I did read and searched , I'm not telling you that I know every thing . no , but I've searched enough to know where is the truth and I found the truth stands so clear ....and still want to know a lot more ,

you asked me to Study ancient Religion, Ancient History, Religions/Mythologies of the indians, celtic people, germanic tribes, Paganism
but I can not know every thing conan .If some one told you that he knew every thing , then be sure that he's the most ignorant person in the whole world because there is no end of knowledge , so I can only take what is enough for me ,,and with all the search between religions I became more positive of the truth
I know people who needed so many years till they found the truth and I also know others who took only one minute to realize the truth , it's the guidance of God that he's alone can decide it's time ..and it's way

Conan21

03-17-2007, 07:07 PM

Yep

You are right about the KKK using Christianity. Just one more example of what is done in the name of religion I guess.

Just because I believe in an after life why do I have to believe in GOD? I would like to think that there is one but it is speculation atleast to me. If you look at quantum Physiques everything is made of energy and your body carries allot of energy. Energy can not be created or destroyed and when it leaves your body it just goes else where. Energy is infinite Consciousness. So I do think it is possible for life to exist after the physical form.

The reason I do not believe in modern religions isn't b/c I think the stories are necessarily false. I just think they are seen in the wrong light. I think someone or some thing created man, talked to Moses, destroyed Saddam and Gomorrah, etc but I don't think it was God.

I didn't mean to extensively study all of those things. I guess I was trying to say that if you look at ancient religions and mythologies they all talk about sky gods and different cultures from different parts of the globe all have a strikingly similar story. And when you combine this with the Sumerian Tablets of Creation (original Old Testament stories) and also take a look at some of the artifacts, monuments, and science of the ancient world it is very hard to deny what is presented before you.

One thing I am pretty sure about is this; If Islam worships the creator of the universe, then they are most certainly worshipping a different God than the Christians and Jews.

sahar mohammed

03-18-2007, 02:48 AM

you know Conan , you believe in an after life but you don't believe in the one who created it? the one who created life and the after life ?
Is it logic to believe in god's creation and leave the creator ?

IF you are in control on your life then , I'll say to you that you don't have to believe , but in any time you can die , you can't be sure you are going to live till tomorrow , no till the next minute ..you can't be sure ...in any time

something might happen to you , you may enjoy a good health but you could get sick in any time and your health will be gone ,you may have a strong body but in no time you could have an accident ,
you may live in a beautiful house but with one earthquake it will be down to earth in seconds , you may have lots of money but may you have more debts than your money , or you may not but in any time all those money can be gone for many reasons , you may gonna spend it on medicines ,
I can just go on and on with examples

you see conan , you have no control at all on your life , all your life can be damaged in one second if he wants and nothing on earth you can do to stop that from happing . If you looked to what I've write , if you looked to your life ,you will sure see that you have no control on it at all but there is someone else that control it , some one that decided when you were born , how you're gonna live. and when you're gonna die
sure the one who is controlling your life , the one who gave you all the blessings and for sure he can take all those blessings away in any time , the one who gave you the mind to chose with it the way you want in life . would you still chose the way that denying God .

humans are so helpless conan , they can not control any thing in this universe. even your own body you can't control it .
so if we_humans _ are that helpless then shouldn't we return to our God the powerful to help us , as we need him so much

In all the disasters that happened on earth . ..lets think , if there was an earthquake or a volcano or a storm . you find all the people saying , Oh my God , Oh God help us .save us God , even those who don't believe you will find them praying to God at this horrible moment when they feel they are so helpless to do any thing .every one at this moment starts to pray to God to save them and help them , in this moment they can see clearly that they have control on nothing , so they return to the only one who have control on every thing to help them . they may lived their whole life away from God , but they remembered him when they needed him , even those who don't believe , and if just they knew that they need him all the time not only when a natural disaster happen . any thing can happen in any time , And we need God in our life all the time

If you were in a Job conan , why do you have to listen to your boss at work ?? why do you have to obay his orders ?
think for a moment here ,,,..
He has a higher level than you in work , he's the one that will judge your work
he's the one who controls your work , and sure he can fire you in any time ,
you see, you obey him because your work is in his hand to control , and sure you need you job and the money you get from it. but this boss can't do nothing by him self , because your work is in the hand of God alone . not only your work but your whole live , your fate,, your destiny , every thing in God's hand alone

So tell me please , is this helpless boss that can't do any thing by himself without God who gave him the strength and the health to work . is this helpless boss like all the helpless humans we are worth to be followed more than God The Powerful ??? This helpless person desearve to be followed more than your God ? with all the power that you may think of this boss he's nothing , he can't control any thing

Who worth to be followed ? the one who rules you at work or the one that rules you , your work , your life , your money , your health .,and rules all the huge universe and every thing in it ??

If you felt the need for something then it's a prove that this thing exist ,, if you felt the need for the water , then this is a prove that water exist , if you felt the hunger , then it's a prove that food exist , and if you felt the weakness man you are then it's a prove that the powerful one exist . you can see his power in every thing in the universe , you can see his power even inside you , The energy that you have he's the one who gave it to you and he's the one that can take it again any time he wants

When we are in that level of weakness , can't control our life . can't control ourselves ,helpless creatures that worth nothing in this huge universe , why then the arrogance to submit to the one who owns every thing , who control every thing , who rules every thing , who know every thing ,

we all need God , without him we are nothing at all ..even those who deny God , there is a moment come in their life when they are so hopeless and then they start saying ( God , if you're their then I ask you to help me . plese ,help me , I need you )
why they remembered him now ?? really why ? the feeling of hopeless , the helpless human they are made them know that because whether they want to confess it or not but they need God more than they think . they needed the powerful one in this moment because they lost hope in depending on any thing or any one else ,so they asked help from the one that they know inside their hearts that he can help them if he wants . The one who can do any thing and every thing

There are millions of things I can say about believing in God , but I think to discuss one point then the other will be much better than writing all the information one time , as you know , the mind has a limited ability of understanding that he can't cross . but even this limited mind can understand that we are so helpless without our creator
ok , I also wanted to talk to you about the ancient religions that you mentioned , I guess I can't do that now since I've write many things in this post , and like I said , I don't like to put all the information one time because you can't pay attention to the whole book that I want to write , and I don't want to write many information that gonna makes you have to read only some parts and leave the rest of the post because it's long , but I want you to read every point I write , so I will talk about the ancient religions in another time but what I can say in short words about it is that ,since God created man , he send the guidance with him to show him the right way , and Islam is not a religion that only exist 1400 years ago , but it's the religion of all the prophets of God since Adam (the first human ) till the last prophet of God ,prophet Muhammed peace be upon him . God's religion for us is one and he send many prophets to the mankind all over the ancient history to guide them . And for sure he is fair with every one of his creatures

Conan21

03-18-2007, 04:35 AM

In my opinion, I am GOD, as is everything else that exists. Energy is made of everything and everything is connected. I do not perceive GOD as some guy that looks just like me (after all we are created in our creators image) who floats around in Outer Space just hanging out in some secret place past the milky way called heaven.

Just as you have said before the Jesus story is not truth but he probably was someone special. So what was his message do you think? I watched a movie called Stigmata before and it was about lost scriptures of Jesus. Whether these scriptures really say this or not I'm not sure but it really rings home to me.

"The Kingdom of God is inside you..and all around you..not in a building made of wood and stone...lift a rock and you shall find me..split a piece of wood and i am there.." This sure goes Hand in hand with what quantum physics is saying today.

Let me ask you this Sahar, Lets say I went and visited some distant planet and there were a bunch primative beings on there and I went and showed them things and proclaimed myself a God would that really mean that I was "The GOD who created the Universe?"

You seem to be flying around the point I'm trying to make here. Believing in GOD is one thing. Thats Great if you do. I'm just saying that he didn't create Adam and Eve, he didn't talk to Moses, He didn't Nuke Saddam and Gomorrah,etc.

sahar mohammed

03-18-2007, 07:55 PM

you can't explain millions of things that exist in the universe by your energy theory . this theory is so superficial and empty in it's meaning ..Just another prove that we without God worth nothing

And we aren't created in our creators image
God is not some guy that looks like you , that is pure nonsense , but he tells us in the Quran that nothing and no one like him .

42:11 there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things).

Jesus story that's in the bible not true , but the true Jesus was more than someone especial , he was a prophet of God , any one of us can be called some one special but how about Jesus's miracles ? How about his whole life since his miracle birth till he was raised from earth by God ? ,, can your energy theory explain miracles ?, can your theory explain things that break the laws of nature ??, , . His message was the same message of all the prophets , to lead the mankind to worship God alone and no one beside him ,

For sure God is every where , he is not living in a kingdom made of wood or stone .( glory to Allah from that ignorance ). really people didn't appreciate God the way they should have when they describe him that way ,

22:74 No just estimate have they made of Allah. for Allah is He Who is strong and able to Carry out His Will

he is the light of that whole universe

24:35 Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.

About the question that you asked me , I believe you are affected by the bible story that God can stand in front of his creatures showing them things . I know you don't believe in the bible but your example is the same story that they believe in ,, that God visited the earth and then announced that he's God and start showing them some magic tricks , can't you see that it's the same story ?, but both stories , yours and the bible story are just things from the imagination , .. God of the universe didn't come to earth in any shape and announced to his creatures that he is God and then showed them some tricks , this story can't be anything more than a comedian movie ..
.

By the way , God didn't talk to Moses face to face like you think , no one talked directly to God , not even the prophets

42:51 It is not fitting for a man that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a messenger to reveal, with Allah's permission, what Allah wills: for He is Most High, Most Wise.

sahar mohammed

03-18-2007, 08:27 PM

conan , it seems that there is a technical problem with the site , as I tried to put my reply but it didn't appear, I hope that you can see it but if you didn't then say so I can connect any of the moderators here to help me

kawasaki1

03-19-2007, 12:38 AM

I love this debate...Both of you make excellent points for both sides of the coin!!!

kawasaki1

03-19-2007, 12:39 AM

I seem to be having the same problem with posting?!

Big A

03-19-2007, 03:54 AM

Big A

03-19-2007, 03:54 AM

Big A

03-19-2007, 03:55 AM

Conan21

03-19-2007, 06:32 AM

Well as far as the energy concept goes, I'm just saying that it is the closest thing to the supernatural that I know of. You can not deny the existence of it. It is easily proven. Albert Einstein and many great minds have spoken on it. Perhaps it is it not necessarily God. If you look into occult magic,allot of it involves the manipulation of energy. Mid-evil magicians and so forth were often Scientists and very bright individuals, not crazy people who just made up spells.

Anyone who believes in Karma or The Law of Attraction acknowledges the existence and effects of this unseen energy. If you believe that positive thoughts bring goodness into your life then you believe in this whether you know it or not.

Sahar

How do you know that Jesus performed Miracles if the story we read about is not true?
I thought Muslims did not believe in the resurrection or the virgin birth?
If you believe in these things then what part of the story do you think is false?

In you opinion, Adam/Eve, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, all existed and were prophets of God. However, All records of their story (both public and those that are not highly known to the general public) are totally incorrect including ones that date back to ancient Sumer that are written in cuneiform script, which is the most ancient language known to man.

All of the records are wrong and either written for entertainment purposes? falsified for political agendas? Or transcribed by the Devil to bring people away from Allah?

The only record that is valid is that of the prophet Muhammad who went in a cave and meditated and then was given revelations by ALLAH "The Creator of the Universe and all Things"?

I'm sorry if some of those questions seem ignorant, it is not my intention. I'm just trying to get a clear picture of what you are saying here.

sahar mohammed

03-19-2007, 08:16 PM

There seems to be some databse problems. I restored your previous post though.

Thanks for the help (Big A) ..

sahar mohammed

03-19-2007, 08:20 PM

Sahar, you deleted your post by mistake. I recovered it.

I think the problem still exist . as I faced the same problem with posting my previous reply

sahar mohammed

03-19-2007, 11:43 PM

Hi conan

If we are gonna say (with your logic ) that energy is the reason why every thing exist then is that mean we are gonna exist for ever ? is this universe gonna exist for ever or one day this energy will be gone and then the end of the world will come ? I want to know your opinion

And If we are going to say that energy is responsible for the existence of universe then I want you now to think for a minute,... can this energy organize the universe in this amazing way ??? , can energy thinks , decides , plans ... ??if you looked to the universe and it's laws that were organized with it to keep the mankind alive , think here .. if you watched the earth and it's laws you will see clearly that some one planned for it to be in this way . and if we are going to say it was by nature then we are saying that nature has a mind to think and to plan with it , and this is insane to say that , and saying nature planned is arrogance from saying God is the one who decided and created

can this energy teach humans how to act , how to live , and even animals , can just energy be the reason after their instinct behavior ? and where their instinct came from any way ? who taught them how to live and act in life ?
In your opinion conan do you think animals know the right from wrong ? do they have a conscience to judge things ?

I want to know your opinion about that

About Jesus . let me explain what both Islam and Christianity believe in

Both Muslims and Christians believe in his miracle birth
these are some verses of the Quran that talked about her miracle birth

19:16 Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East
19:17 She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.
19:18 She said: "I seek refuge from thee to ((Allah)) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah."
19:19 He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
19:20 She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"
19:21 He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter (so) decreed."

Also both believe in his miracles

3:49 "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;

The difference is Christians look to him as (God, son of God , son of man ) in a way that they even don't understand
Muslims look to him as a messenger was sent by God , and he was a human like us

Christians say that he was crucified and then buried then after 3 days was raised from death ( which is strange that the God they believe in was killed then buried )

Muslims believe that he wasn't crucified and he wasn't buried but God raised him from earth to heaven , the one who was curisefied wasn't Jesus
and so God saved his messenger from death

4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

About the records, the ancient Sumer that you talked about . It's not even a prove of any thing , It's only a historical records like the egyptian records , to save their culture and civilization , not religion facts . and it was exist in the mid 4th millennium BC ...It's strange that you are taking historical proves from the people that believed that the universe consisted of a flat disk and you also want to take from them religion facts when they worshipped myth Gods, many myth Gods from their imagination .. If they were right then where are their Gods now ??
they don't sounds like people that you can built your believe on their records ,

What about the records that prove the prophets storys ?, both religion and historical records .... what the ancient Sumer has to do with proving that they were or weren't prophets of God ?

And another thing I want to ask you about since you talked about the ancient language man knew ... who taught man the language ? who taught the man how to speake ?

Conan21

03-20-2007, 01:51 AM

To me it seems that the stories of the Old Testament originate from ancient Sumerian where it describes an extra terrestrial race that came to earth and genetically engineered man. This is who the bible is referring to when they talk about God. Adam and Eve, Noah, etc. all the stories are in these texts. So technically, Jews and Christians worship an Alien. So do Muslims if you insist that it is the same God that created Man and spoke to Moses etc.

This is what these ancient tablets say. 22,000 in total.

They also have drawings and precise mappings of our solar system with detailed descriptions of each planet. Things we couldn't verify until the last 50years they knew way back then.

Feel Free to look any of this stuff up, the tablets are on display in a British Museum. They are no secret.

Who taught Man language? The Gods did. The annunaki, Nephilim, they have been given many names through out history. They taught man many things, mathematics, Engineering, Spirituality,Cycles of the Universe,concepts of times, laws, etc.

As far as what Muslims believe about the Jesus Story it seems that it is almost the same view point as Christians just with a few minor twists. There are 20 other guys with the same story as Jesus. Take Horus of Egypt, it is exactly the same as Jesus'

Here is what Jesus represents.

JESUS------------------Symbolic of the SUN in our Universe
Born under a Bright Star----Beginning of the AGE OF PICSES (this is the reason Christianity is represented by the Fish)
Begins his fathers work at age 12---SUN is at high noon
12 Disciples----------------12 houses of the zodiac
Begins his ministry at age 30---The sun enters into a new age at the 30th degree
Dies at the age of 33----a sun leaves a zodiacal age at the 33rd degree

Dieing on the cross and rising from the dead after 3 day---represents the winter solstice. On December 22nd the sun reaches its most southern spot on the sun dial, symbolically dies, and then on December 25 it begins moving north again and is "reborn" representing everlasting life on earth

Passover--the transition between one Zodiacal Age to the next.

In Luke 22:10 you can read Jesus says once I'm gone you will be greeted by a man bearing a water pitcher. Well that makes perfect sense because after the age of Pisces comes the Age of Aquarius and that is always represented as a man bearing a pitcher of water. This Age will begin on December 21, 2012.

Born of a Virgin------------- Ancient calendars used to begin in the constellation of Virgo which is represented by a virgin girl.
(This is also the meaning of the Sphinx in Egypt) as the monument has the Virgo head and the Lion Body. Representing the Year begins in the constellation of Virgo and ends in the Constellation of Leo (Lion).

If you look into history at all you find many individuals with the same story as Jesus with the above key points. It is all symbolic of things that happen in the heavens IE the sky/outer space.

Please research the points I addressed above. You will find them to be true.

sahar mohammed

03-20-2007, 06:39 PM

Yes Muslims worship the God of the universe that created man and spoken to Moses but not the God of the bible which is a man made God not the true God ,
Since you're talking about the sumerian bible then you must mean the 5 scripts of Moses
As you must know that the sumerian bible is the first 5 scriptures of the old testment ( which is Moses scriptures as they say )

If you looked to this scriptures that they are saying that Moses wite it ,, in these scriptures you will find it's written , ( God spoke to Moses , then Moses replied to God , the God said to Moses , then Moses said to God ....) and all the conversation is like this , if you noticed , if Moses was the one that write it then why is he saying Moses said to God ? why he didn't say I said to God ?

but he was talking like if he were talking about someone else not about himself
he didn't say I said to God , in another meaning it's like someone else was there and he is the one that wrote the conversation between Moses and God
If God was the one that wrote it then you would have found ( I said to Moses and he said to me ) and if it was Moses the one that wrote it then he would have said ( I said to God and he said to me ) so as you can see , it wasn't written by God , and it wasn't written by Moses ,

Neither God write these scriptures nor Moses

About the question I asked ( who taught the man the language )
so you agree that God is the one who taught the man the language ?? that's great ,
yes , you said many names that all refer to God and the different names because of the different languages , . if you are talking Arabic you will call him Allah , in English God , different names because of the different languages . but it's great that you know that God is the one who taught man what he know ..

And by the way what about my other questions that I asked you about .( the questions about energy _ the instinct behavior of the animals _ their conscience ) . it's really important to out subject

specially the followings questions

can this energy organize the universe in this amazing way ??? , can energy thinks , decides , plans ... ??if you looked to the universe and it's laws that were organized with it to keep the mankind alive , think here .. if you watched the earth and it's laws you will see clearly that some one planned for it to be in this way . and if we are going to say it was by nature then we are saying that nature has a mind to think and to plan with it , and this is insane to say that , and saying nature planned is arrogance from saying God is the one who decided and created

can this energy teach humans how to act , how to live , and even animals , can just energy be the reason after their instinct behavior ? and where their instinct came from any way ? who taught them how to live and act in life ?
In your opinion conan do you think animals know the right from wrong ? do they have a conscience to

About Jesus of the trinity ,It's really a comedian movie

you know there was an Indian religion that called of worshipping 3 Gods .. ( an Indian trinity )
the first is Berhama ( the original ) , the second is shonwa ( the keeper of every thing). and the third is shiwa ( the disaster's God )

There was also the ancient Egyptian trinity
Isis , Osiris , Horus ,... Isis was the wife of Osiris and mother of Horus ( the Father , the Mother , the Son ) and they worshipped them as Gods

In Babylion or the Bable ( don't you notice that the name is very close to Bible ? )
there was another trinity
They had 3 Gods called Ashtarout , sin, and shamas and this trinty was also made of the father , the mother , the son

the trinity that exist in the bible is no more than another myth trinity ,, but God of the universe is one ,,indivisible, and no one beside him .he's not in 3 persons , he's not in 3 shapes , he's one . that is the only true God

Conan21

03-20-2007, 07:08 PM

Im kind of at a loss for words here. It seems as If everything I just said you didn't read. :rolleyes:

sahar mohammed

03-21-2007, 12:49 AM

I've read every word you wrote , have you read mine ??!!!

And since you are looking for words to answer then I'd be grateful if you start looking for answers to the questions I mentioned above , It's really very important to the subject ( should I write them again ??)

And especially ( the language and the instinct behavior ) and what the energy theory has to do with it ? how can you explain them by your energy theory ??

salaam
peace

sahar mohammed

03-22-2007, 02:06 PM

Are you alright conan ?

You didn't answer my question ,.. is it a hard question or you're facing a technical problem with the site ??

Any way I hope you are fine and I hope to see an answer soon

Conan21

03-25-2007, 03:22 AM

I was trying to convey that aliens created us. And by aliens I mean guys that fly around in space ships in outer space with advanced technology. Im not stating this as my opinion. I'm saying it in reference to what ancient records say.

These aliens were knowns as Gods/God. And these Aliens are what the Old Testament is referring to when you read the word 'God'.

Muslims belief in christ is the almost the same as christians. They don't see the symbology of the story. Saying he wasn't the son of God and didn't rise from the dead are trivial differences.

I'm not about to debate the energy thing with you. It is too indepth. I do think it is capable of many of the things you asked about. Since I have a hard time worshipping aliens, this is the closest thing that I know of as far as spirituality.

Here is a brief clip from a a popular dvd that is going around called "The Secret". This clip debates the difference between GOD and Energy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CPMzXFwEeE

Conan21

03-25-2007, 03:23 AM

Big A

04-25-2007, 06:50 AM

Are you alright conan ?

You didn't answer my question ,.. is it a hard question or you're facing a technical problem with the site ??

Any way I hope you are fine and I hope to see an answer soon

All the site problems are fixed.