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JAG
12-18-2005, 08:12 PM
More proof the government is abusing its power to spy on Americans! The NSA has nothing on the Pentagon!

Pentagon accused of spying on Americans
Officials will say they will review program that collects data on opponents of the war.

By Tom Regan | csmonitor.com
NBC News reported earlier this week that it had obtained a secret US Department of Defense document that shows the department is now monitoring "peaceful anti-war and counter-military recruitment groups." Today, The Washington Post reports that Pentagon officials say they will review the program, since NBC's document shows that information has been collected on "peace protesters and others whose activities posed no threat and should not have been kept on file." Pentagon officials say the information collection was aimed at countering terrorism.

"On the surface, it looks like things in the database that were determined not to be viable threats were never deleted but should have been," [a senior defense department official] said. "You can also make the argument that these things should never have been put in the database in the first place until they were confirmed as threats."

The program is known as "Talon," and is supposed to compile unconfirmed reports of threats to defense facilities. The Post reports that the program is "part of a broader effort by the Pentagon to gather counterterrorism intelligence within the United States," and has raised concerns for civil libertarians and members of Congress recently. Any information that is not considered threatening is supposed to be removed from the Talon database within 90 days.

The Palm Beach Post reports on The Truth Project of Lake Worth, Florida, one of the groups considered a threat according to the Talon database. The group consists of about 20 people, including five Quakers and a 79-year old grandmother. Their original meeting, held in 2004 at the local Quaker meeting house, was one of 1,500 "suspicious" incidents in the database.

"When we saw (the database), our eyes fell out of our heads," said [Evelyn Grachow,], of West Palm Beach. "We really couldn't believe what we were seeing, because all we do is give information to the young people in high schools who have been harassed by recruiters. There is never talk of our doing violence."

Lisa Stewart, a Quaker who attended the Truth Project meeting, said the Quakers investigated the group before allowing them to use the meetinghouse. She said she shares the group's concern that a draft might be instituted during the Iraq war and wanted to find ways to deter students from enlisting. "I just wanted to make sure this group was on the up and up and they weren't a bunch of hotheads," said Stewart, 68, a member of The Truth Project. "They were very much in keeping with (Quaker) principles."

NBC military analyst Bill Arkin says all Americans should be concerned by the Pentagon's actions.

“It means that they’re actually collecting information about who’s at those protests, the descriptions of vehicles at those protests,” says Arkin. “On the domestic level, this is unprecedented,” he says. “I think it's the beginning of enormous problems and enormous mischief for the military.”

Columnist Arianna Huffington, writing in the Los Angeles Times, notes that it's not just the Pentagon that's been watching antiwar demonstrations, as "documents recently obtained under the Freedom of Information Act show that the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force has been recording the names and license plate numbers of peaceful antiwar protesters." ............

(follow link for rest of story)
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1215/dailyUpdate.html

rugbythug
12-18-2005, 08:39 PM
Is this suprising? It was done during the 60's too.

Although I don't understand why it would be illegal as long as the information was gathered legally. Our country is becoming a state of databases. Grocery stores, Gas Stations, Credit Cards, Google- Why would you expect less from the Gov't. I keep my head down as much as possible. I buy guns through other people- 2nd hand. I never used discount cards if possible I have zero balances on all but one card. And I have never made a purchase on it.

JAG
12-18-2005, 09:15 PM
Is this suprising? It was done during the 60's too.

Yes considering congressional hearings in the 1970s subsequently led to strict limits on the kinds of information that the military can collect about activities and people inside the United States. it is now illegal!

The regulations require that any information that is "not validated as threatening" must be removed. It is illegal to store this type of info in a database on US citizens and the pentagon (which stopped short of officially acknowledging fault) implied some information had been mishandled.

Our government now regards protesting (once deamed a right) as threats against national security.

tattoojr
12-20-2005, 02:47 AM
Is any of this suprizing,it all stems from the Patroit Act and Homeland Security act. It was only a matter of time before the Government found a way to spy on taxpayers and then tell us its for our best interest. Theres a saying that they will use stating "that if you've nothing to hide then they will find nothing" the thing that bothers me more than them keeping files is their ability to arrest someone and withhold their due process forever, claiming a potional enemy of the state. This government does little or nothing about the flood of illegals coming thru all our borders but can spend the resources on keeping tabs on some Quakers that don't like the war, Whats next? J.R.

STORM SHADOW
12-21-2005, 06:30 AM
Is any of this suprizing,it all stems from the Patroit Act and Homeland Security act. It was only a matter of time before the Government found a way to spy on taxpayers and then tell us its for our best interest. Theres a saying that they will use stating "that if you've nothing to hide then they will find nothing" the thing that bothers me more than them keeping files is their ability to arrest someone and withhold their due process forever, claiming a potional enemy of the state. This government does little or nothing about the flood of illegals coming thru all our borders but can spend the resources on keeping tabs on some Quakers that don't like the war, Whats next? J.R.

Wrong wrong wrong... read Rugby's last post which I was going to post and he beat me to it... this was going on long before the patriot act..in fact..this goes back as far as WWI.

SS

JAG
12-21-2005, 03:00 PM
this was going on long before the patriot act..in fact..this goes back as far as WWI.

Thats is why laws were passed and put in place to STOP it!
FISA courts were set up for this very reason!

tattoojr
12-22-2005, 12:48 AM
The 2 Acts I posted were when the spying became legal, i'll agree that this has been going on , but in the past when it was exposed the were repercussions. Now its above board and for the greater good , there might be some poh pahs about who and where but its still legal. Before you could not lose your civil liberties and be held indefinitly without formal charges, now that is happening . Next we will be told to give up our guns. J.R.

rugbythug
12-22-2005, 01:16 AM
Define you? Enemies captured in battle? Is that you?

Lets not get it twisted. My great Uncle was in the first ever special forces. They made a movie about his unit. "The Devils Brigade". In WWI they captured german soldiers and the prisons were full. They marched them to a canal and shot them in the Head. Under orders.

This type of stuff has happened since the beginning of time. The only difference today is the amount of media we have availible.

STORM SHADOW
12-22-2005, 02:22 AM
Define you? Enemies captured in battle? Is that you?

Lets not get it twisted. My great Uncle was in the first ever special forces. They made a movie about his unit. "The Devils Brigade". In WWI they captured german soldiers and the prisons were full. They marched them to a canal and shot them in the Head. Under orders.

This type of stuff has happened since the beginning of time. The only difference today is the amount of media we have availible.

This I totally believe. I also believe we illegally murdered thousands of German citizens and soldiers in WWII

SS

Shit happens all the time

tattoojr
12-23-2005, 12:02 AM
The U I am speaking about is any US citizen inside the USA, the miliatry has been doing these thing since the begining of warfare so I'm not surprized at any of that.