[TorryJens]

Dear Friends/Respected Members,

At a time when the Congress government wants to raise the quota for Other Backward Classes to 49.5 per cent in private and public sectors, nobody talks about the plight of the upper castes. The public image of the Brahmins, for instance, is that of an affluent, pampered class. But is it so today?

Doctors in arms

There are 50 Sulabh Shauchalayas (public toilets) in Delhi [ Images ]; all of them are cleaned and looked after by Brahmins (this very welcome public institution was started by a Brahmin). A far cry from the elitist image that Brahmins have!
There are five to six Brahmins manning each Shauchalaya. They came to Delhi eight to ten years back looking for a source of income, as they were a minority in most of their villages, where Dalits are in majority (60 per cent to 65 per cent). In most villages in UP and Bihar, Dalits have a union which helps them secure jobs in villages.

At Ground Zero of the quota protests

Did you know that you also stumble upon a number of Brahmins working as coolies at Delhi's railway stations? One of them, Kripa Shankar Sharma, says while his daughter is doing her Bachelors in Science he is not sure if she will secure a job.

"Dalits often have five to six kids, but they are confident of placing them easily and well," he says. As a result, the Dalit population is increasing in villages. He adds: "Dalits are provided with housing, even their pigs have spaces; whereas there is no provision for gaushalas (cowsheds) for the cows of the Brahmins."

The middle class deserves what it is getting

You also find Brahmin rickshaw pullers in Delhi. 50 per cent of Patel Nagar's rickshaw pullers are Brahmins who like their brethren have moved to the city looking for jobs for lack of employment opportunities and poor education in their villages.

Even after toiling the whole day, Vijay Pratap and Sidharth Tiwari, two Brahmin rickshaw pullers, say they are hardly able to make ends meet. These men make about Rs 100 to Rs 150 on an average every day from which they pay a daily rent of Rs 25 for their rickshaws and Rs 500 to Rs 600 towards the rent of their rooms which is shared by 3 to 4 people or their families.
Did you also know that most rickshaw pullers in Banaras are Brahmins?
Do our institutes connect with the real India?

This reverse discrimination is also found in bureaucracy and politics. Most of the intellectual Brahmin Tamil class has emigrated outside Tamil Nadu. Only 5 seats out of 600 in the combined UP and Bihar assembly are held by Brahmins -- the rest are in the hands of the Yadavs.

400,000 Brahmins of the Kashmir [ Images ] valley, the once respected Kashmiri Pandits, now live as refugees in their own country, sometimes in refugee camps in Jammu and Delhi in appalling conditions. But who gives a damn about them? Their vote bank is negligible.

And this is not limited to the North alone. 75 per cent of domestic help and cooks in Andhra Pradesh are Brahmins. A study of the Brahmin community in a district in Andhra Pradesh (Brahmins of India [ Images ] by J Radhakrishna, published by Chugh Publications) reveals that today all purohits live below the poverty line.

Eighty per cent of those surveyed stated that their poverty and traditional style of dress and hair (tuft) had made them the butt of ridicule. Financial constraints coupled with the existing system of reservations for the 'backward classes' prevented them from providing secular education to their children.

Who are the real Dalits of India?

In fact, according to this study there has been an overall decline in the number of Brahmin students. With the average income of Brahmins being less than that of non-Brahmins, a high percentage of Brahmin students drop out at the intermediate level. In the 5 to 18 year age group, 44 per cent Brahmin students stopped education at the primary level and 36 per cent at the pre-matriculation level.

The study also found that 55 per cent of all Brahmins lived below the poverty line -- below a per capita income of Rs 650 a month. Since 45 per cent of the total population of India is officially stated to be below the poverty line it follows that the percentage of destitute Brahmins is 10 per cent higher than the all-India figure.

There is no reason to believe that the condition of Brahmins in other parts of the country is different. In this connection it would be revealing to quote the per capita income of various communities as stated by the Karnataka [ Images ] finance minister in the state assembly: Christians Rs 1,562, Vokkaligas Rs 914, Muslims Rs 794, Scheduled castes Rs 680, Scheduled Tribes Rs 577 and Brahmins Rs 537.

Appalling poverty compels many Brahmins to migrate to towns leading to spatial dispersal and consequent decline in their local influence and institutions. Brahmins initially turned to government jobs and modern occupations such as law and medicine. But preferential policies for the non-Brahmins have forced Brahmins to retreat in these spheres as well.

Caste shouldn't overwrite merit

According to the Andhra Pradesh study, the largest percentage of Brahmins today are employed as domestic servants. The unemployment rate among them is as high as 75 per cent. Seventy percent of Brahmins are still relying on their hereditary vocation. There are hundreds of families that are surviving on just Rs 500 per month as priests in various temples (Department of Endowments statistics).

Priests are under tremendous difficulty today, sometimes even forced to beg for alms for survival. There are innumerable instances in which Brahmin priests who spent a lifetime studying Vedas are being ridiculed and disrespected.

At Tamil Nadu's Ranganathaswamy Temple, a priest's monthly salary is Rs 900 (Census Department studies) and a daily allowance of one measure of rice. The government staff at the same temple receive Rs 8,500 plus per month. But these facts have not modified the priests' reputation as 'haves' and as 'exploiters.' The destitution of Hindu priests has moved none, not even the parties known for Hindu sympathy.

The tragedy of modern India is that the combined votes of Dalits/OBC and Muslims are enough for any government to be elected. The Congress quickly cashed in on it after Independence, but probably no other government than Sonia Gandhi's [ Images ] has gone so far in shamelessly dividing Indian society for garnering votes.

From the Indian Express: 'These measures will not achieve social justice'
The Indian government gives Rs 1,000 crores (Rs 10 billion) for salaries of imams in mosques and Rs 200 crores (Rs 2 billion) as Haj subsidies. But no such help is available to Brahmins and upper castes. As a result, not only the Brahmins, but also some of the other upper castes in the lower middle class are suffering in silence today, seeing the minorities slowly taking control of their majority.

How reservations fracture Hindu society

Anti-Brahminism originated in, and still prospers in anti-Hindu circles. It is particularly welcome among Marxists, missionaries, Muslims, separatists and Christian-backed Dalit movements of different hues. When they attack Brahmins, their target is unmistakably Hinduism.

So the question has to be asked: are the Brahmins (and other upper castes) of yesterday becoming the Dalits of today?

A.V.V.V.RAJAGOPAL-COIMBATORE-TAMILNADU

[Paul Bunyan]

Greetings.

It is nice to provide source.

'Are brahmins the dalits of today/' ..... Are Brahmins the Dalits of today?

Cheers!

[doctorzlo]

Greetings. My comment about the above article - it took a French person to ask the question. Why brahmins are not uniting to ask the question? Something to think about.

[NeroASERCH]

I don't know about the rest of the article, but this part is absolutely not true.

75 per cent of domestic help and cooks in Andhra Pradesh are Brahmins.

I have seen a lot of domestic help in AP and elsewhere and none of them are Brahmins. Cooks perhaps, but not regular help doing the "menial tasks". I have seen one Brahmin lady who charges more than Rs 500 per day + auto fare. In fact many of the cooks in B households are actually NBs women. That's the only kind that is available.

[doctorzlo]

The solution lies not in fighting for or seeking favours, but in creating opportunities so there is no dearth of jobs. If there is value and demand for any service or product, the market decides the price, else you are at the mercy of the provider.
This community should get to be more entrepreneuring and risk taking

[Slonopotam845]

I am out of Tamil Nadu for the last 58/60 years. when I was attending Sri Seshadri Swamigal function in Oonjalur, one NB compained to me that we TBs left Tamil Nadu and enjoying life outisde TN. I told him that it was NBs forced TBs to go out of the State and it was blessing in disguise for TBs. let me explain my own experience in TN. when I was around 16/17 years I was walking with my grand father who was sporting 'kudumi'. In one place, there were 4/5 NBs sitting and chitchatting; suddenly, on seeing my grandfather, one enquired the other perosn as to how much length will be of my grandfather's 'kudumi'. one said it will be 3 inches and another said, 4 inches. the third person demanded to measure it. so, all those NBs rushed to my grandfather and started holding his 'kudumi'. when my grandfather resisted, he was pushed and he fell on the ground. being young, I gave a slap to some of those persons but we both were beated badly. we somehow reached our home. At that time, I decided to leave TN; I did. I am happy, earned handsomly, enjoyed life. suc is the condiion of brahmins. yes I am living in Delhi and know the condition of Brahmins from UP, Bihar, Orissa etc. I have seen brahmim chowkidhars, rikshaw-pullers, rly. porters. why, late TTK once famously announed that he was happy one brahmin in a cherry(Harijan basti) in Madras. so, less said it is better;otherwise, we the brahmins get depressed. get along and we have to face it

[LottiFurmann]

Dear All

Please read my post "caste-based census" - posted on 01/052102

Guruvethunai
Yay Yem from Chennai [mind it!]

[Paul Bunyan]

I am a Tamil brahmin living outside TN for the last 40 years. Therefore, I do not know the current situation there. Is not there a Tamil Brahmins Association? Why have they not started any scheme to help poor brahmins? There are a substantial number of brahmins who are quite well off now specially due to IT jobs and they can make handsome contributions. But the problem is that a brahmin may spend even upto one lac rupees for an upanayanam ceremony but will not contribute even five thousand thousand for brahmin cause.

[brraverishhh]

Sri. Subbu, Greetings.

but will not contribute even five thousand thousand for brahmin cause. Kindly tell me, please... what is 'brahmin cause?' If the cause appeals to me, I will contribute.

Cheers!

[Drugmachine]

The solution lies not in fighting for or seeking favours, but in creating opportunities so there is no dearth of jobs. If there is value and demand for any service or product, the market decides the price, else you are at the mercy of the provider.
This community should get to be more entrepreneuring and risk taking

Sri. Ozone, Greetings.

I don't think brahmin community is fighting for or seeking favours. In fact, I don't think the youngsters even care for such things. It is the stigma they are fighting against. It is unreasonale branding they are unhappy about.

Cheers!

[Lt_Apple]

Sri. Ozone, Greetings.

I don't think brahmin community is fighting for or seeking favours. In fact, I don't think the youngsters even care for such things. It is the stigma they are fighting against. It is unreasonale branding they are unhappy about.

Cheers!

Dear Sri Raghy,
Greetings.
I see. I somehow concluded that the OP was about asking the community to fight back.
What is the stigma about? How is it affecting us today? Less jobs in the Govt? Who cares. With so much corruption and scams no good minded TB would want to be associated with it anyway.

[Raj_Copi_Jin]

After the 1990's Tamil Brahmins in TN stopped searching for Government jobs...Good that they have gone to the Private sector..

But I know lots of educated Brahmins earning a pittance in the Private sector...Issue is in Private sector(not everyone is an Infosys or Wipro or Tata/Birla) are giving salaries at par with the Government sector at best or lower...Also after some years of employment in Private sector, especially for non professionals, they are given VRS or discharged from service with no pension or any other means of support..The private sector does not care about the responsibilities of the elderly (marriage of daughter/higher education for children etc)...

Following are some suggestions to overcome the crisis

1.Try to learn 2-3 skills and keep yourself abreast of the latest in that area so that you can continue working (atleast part time)despite being overthrown in current job.

2. There are tremendous opportunities in the field of education..There is still a huge shortfall of teachers..You can move to teaching even after working for several years in non teaching line

3. Try to work on your passionate areas during free time especially week ends...This might provide you succor when you need the most. It can be learning additional language -can be Hindi or even French or German or even Chinese...

4. If your spouse is having a steady job & income you can take the risk of entrepreurship...Do not hesitate to take the plunge..Instead of depending on a owner, you can be the owner and decide the destiny of 10 persons by providing jobs (directly or indirectly)

5. In the 60's & 70's every Tamil Brahmin used to learn Typewriting & Shorthand because there there were plenty of clerical jobs for which these skills were mandatory..Now these are replaced by Computer skills...Learn a few computer languages & these would help you

Hope we use the above for the uplift of our TB's ...

[softy54534]

Dear Sri Raghy,
Greetings.
I see. I somehow concluded that the OP was about asking the community to fight back.
What is the stigma about? How is it affecting us today? Less jobs in the Govt? Who cares. With so much corruption and scams no good minded TB would want to be associated with it anyway.

Dear Sri. Ozone, Greetings.

My message in post #10 has got nothing to do with the OP. I expressed only my views in my message.

You have quoted my message in post #10. I am very clear when I said the brahmin community is not fighting to seek favours. Reservation system to obrtain Govt jobs is seeking favour; I did not think the fight is about that. Since you seem to have missed that,I am mentioning that again.

I mentioned about stigma and branding.

If not all of us, most of Tamil Brahmins have gone through this situation .. one or several NB 'friends' talk ill of the brahmin community in the presence of just one or maximum two Tamil brahmins; the talk starts out of blue, quite unprovoked; when the tamil brahmin guys become embaressed enough, these NB guys say " don't mistake us; we are not talking about you in particular but only about the tamil brahmin community in general!'... most often than not, those tamil brahmin guys don't even know how to put up a fight and meekly take the abuse. Such abuses are doled out only due to birth as Tamil brahmin. That is the stigma I am talking about. I am asking the members to think about this situation; I am sure almost everyone has gone through this. Hypothetically, if everyone gets exempted, who are the target for such mud slinging? If that question gets analysed, the answer would be the caste name 'Tamil Brahmins'. That is the stigma I am talking about.

Next one is branding. As of today the high caste NB Hindus are practicising discrimination against lower caste persons. At the same time, such persons are getting favours awarded by the government. These discriminating NBs, while enjoying favours, blame tamil brahmins as discriminating caste! That is the branding I am talking about.

Listen guys, if the percentage of tamil brahmins in Tamil Nadu is 2.5 %, then the population would like 1,500,000. In India the brahmin population would be like 30 million plus! Can't this large population get united to get something done in their favour?

Think about it guys. What is the strength of 1,500,000 persons? What would be strength of 30 million people ( that's about 140% of Australian population).

Cheers!

[radikal]

Sri. Subbu, Greetings.



Kindly tell me, please... what is 'brahmin cause?' If the cause appeals to me, I will contribute.

Cheers!

What I mean is that there are a number of organisations helping indegent brahmins to meet their medical, educational and marriage expenses etc. For example, a few months back I got an email for contribution for the marriage of a poor girl in Walajapet. The gentleman who took up the job was located in Bangalore. He could succeed in his endeavour. I also made a small contribution. There are some setups like Kerala Brahmana Sangam, Aalaya Kainkarya Satsangam etc who are helping poor and deserving brahmins. If you are in Chennai you can contact Aalaya Kainkarya Satsangam on phone no. 23715585. There is a lady called Smt Mahalakshmi (9840053289) in Chennai who is involved in reconstruction of delapidated temples. I have quoted only genuine people/organisation with whom I have dealt with.

Needless to mention that there are a number of vadapathshalas crying for help.

[Big A]

Listen guys, if the percentage of tamil brahmins in Tamil Nadu is 2.5 %, then the population would like 1,500,000. In India the brahmin population would be like 30 million plus! Can't this large population get united to get something done in their favour?

Think about it guys. What is the strength of 1,500,000 persons? What would be strength of 30 million people ( that's about 140% of Australian population).

Cheers!

sh.raghy, a small request. dont club TB's with rest of Brahmins of india.. TB's are unique, and come what the situation and analogy needed, pls dont club rest of B's.. and this site is also unique with domain Tamil Brahmins Forum - Brahmins World

its time to take care of tb's first!

[Paul Bunyan]

sh.raghy, a small request. dont club TB's with rest of Brahmins of india.. TB's are unique, and come what the situation and analogy needed, pls dont club rest of B's.. and this site is also unique with domain Tamil Brahmins Forum - Brahmins World

its time to take care of tb's first!

Sri. Shiv, Greetings.

I quite agree Tamil brahmin community is unique just like other brahmin communities and just like non-brahmin communities for that matter.

Even if there is unity amoung just the Tamil Brahmin communities ( I mention here purposely in plural), still they can muster over 1 million strong voices ( leaving the very elderly and very young aside). But they have to unite under one banner. May as well call themselves 'Tamizh Brahmins' and be prepared to help each other.

There is a great potential indeed. So what if one happen to be born in a brahmin community? One should not take that as a curse, but still take some pride in that community and work for the betterment.

Comments are welcome.

Cheers!

[Beerinkol]

What I mean is that there are a number of organisations helping indegent brahmins to meet their medical, educational and marriage expenses etc. For example, a few months back I got an email for contribution for the marriage of a poor girl in Walajapet. The gentleman who took up the job was located in Bangalore. He could succeed in his endeavour. I also made a small contribution. There are some setups like Kerala Brahmana Sangam, Aalaya Kainkarya Satsangam etc who are helping poor and deserving brahmins. If you are in Chennai you can contact Aalaya Kainkarya Satsangam on phone no. 23715585. There is a lady called Smt Mahalakshmi (9840053289) in Chennai who is involved in reconstruction of delapidated temples. I have quoted only genuine people/organisation with whom I have dealt with.

Needless to mention that there are a number of vadapathshalas crying for help.

Sri. Subbu, Greetings.

I really like that part where a poor girl was helped with her wedding. I agree that is a 'brahmin cause', helping a person in that community.

As I mentioned earlier, brahmins make less than 3% of the Hindu population. That means, 97% are non-brahmins; they are also consumers for the temples. Renovating temples will not help the brahmin community. So, I am not convinced that as a 'brahmin cause'.

Once I thought I was helping a vedapasala in Hydrabad. At the end of the whole interaction and conversations, I was made to feel as if I should be lucky to be able to help that organisation. I was also made to understand in no uncertain terms that others are standing in line to donate for that vedapadasala. By the way, I was more polite in my conversations than I write in this forum. At that time I decided I will never ever make any more donations to any vedapadasalas. So, kindly excuse me from helping any vedapadasalas, please.

Brahmin community is made up persons. If we help a person directly, we will be helping the community directly and indirectly. I consider that kind of help as a valid cause. I am more than happy to help for such causes like higher education, basic wedding expenses or such expenses. Any such request may be directed to my PM, please. I will contribute to my limit and budget for that financial year. Thank you.

Cheers!

[doctorzlo]

The write up sends out strong signals to the entire community and warns of what is in store for us if we don't wake up.Thank God as the software opens avenues of employment and the lite only are benefited.Days are not far off when our children become beggars in the days to come.
I am a retied college professor and my experience is that most of the brahmin students coming from the lower strata are not hard working and they are interested in seeing films , smoking , drinking etc.I was helping some poor Brahmin boys financially to prosecute their studies but I stopped helping them as they misused the funds for amusement purposes. To make matters worse our girls are marrying outside the community leaving us doubt whether there will be a community 0of brahmins.God alone can help us.
sundarrajan.

[MannoFr]

Sri. Subbu, Greetings.

I really like that part where a poor girl was helped with her wedding. I agree that is a 'brahmin cause', helping a person in that community.

As I mentioned earlier, brahmins make less than 3% of the Hindu population. That means, 97% are non-brahmins; they are also consumers for the temples. Renovating temples will not help the brahmin community. So, I am not convinced that as a 'brahmin cause'.

Once I thought I was helping a vedapasala in Hydrabad. At the end of the whole interaction and conversations, I was made to feel as if I should be lucky to be able to help that organisation. I was also made to understand in no uncertain terms that others are standing in line to donate for that vedapadasala. By the way, I was more polite in my conversations than I write in this forum. At that time I decided I will never ever make any more donations to any vedapadasalas. So, kindly excuse me from helping any vedapadasalas, please.

Brahmin community is made up persons. If we help a person directly, we will be helping the community directly and indirectly. I consider that kind of help as a valid cause. I am more than happy to help for such causes like higher education, basic wedding expenses or such expenses. Any such request may be directed to my PM, please. I will contribute to my limit and budget for that financial year. Thank you.

Cheers!

RaghySir:

Amazingly, your post touched a chord in me, since I also subscribe to your perspectives.

1) Yes, do not waste money donating to Vedapatasalas if their attitude is one of condescension. Besides, these patasalas are run or assisted by gurukkals who make considerable money through purohitam activities, so the patasalas can survive without our well-intentioned donations.

2) You are very right. Brahmin community is made up of persons. If we help one person or one family directly, we will be helping the community directly and indirectly. That is indeed a valid mode of help. In fact, I helped a TB lady who was so ill-treated by her drunkard-husband and cruel in-laws, she walked out on them with 2 children, one girl and a younger boy, both of school-going age.

We were looking for a cook mami, and so we put the word out, and someone brought this middle-aged lady and requested that I offer her the job. After hearing her travails, I was ready to offer her the job, and asked her what I should pay. As the lady was really down and out, she said she was ready to accept whatever I was willing to pay. The escort lady said that I could pay Rs. 500 per month. Now, that seemed to me such a ridiculously low amount that even a street-corner beggar would make more than that. So I offered to pay Rs.1000 per month. She was so flabbergasted by the amount that she broke into tears. To cut the story short, she started working for us, I also helped with paying school fees for her daughter to complete her+2 education. Subsequently, I also helped with the marriage of this daughter who is now well-settled with a son of her own.

Now comes the reality check. Let me first quote from what Shri Sundarrajan posted above:
…brahminstudents coming from the lower strata are not hard working and they areinterested in seeing films , smoking , drinking etc. I was helping some poorBrahmin boys financially to prosecute their studies but I stopped helping themas they misused the funds for amusement purposes…. To make matters worse ourgirls are marrying outside the community….
Sadly, the same thing happened with the cook’s son I was trying to help. Here the ‘amusement’ was his cultivation of the habit of visiting ‘TASMAC’ shops for ‘drinks’.

As Shri Sundarrajan posted, my observation also is that this is true of most lower-strata brahmin boys these days. Girls are much much better and behave very responsibly. On the other hand, “girls marrying outside the community” is more common in the middle and upper starta of the brahmin community.

Raghy Sir, as you so generously came forward, I will also be more than happy to help for causes like higher education, basic wedding expenses and such. But a lot of personal interviews and screening processes must precede such help. As tha saying goes, பாத்திரம் அறிந்து பிச்சை இடு

[Beerinkol]

My comments on post 18 & 19

அன்று தலை மேல் குடுமி
இன்று தலை மேல் குடி?
நம் சமூகத்தின் தலையில் இடி !!

நெஞ்சு பொறுக்குதில்லையே....