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Old 10-18-2005, 08:00 AM   #1
Lt_Apple

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Among the 12 Alwars, Periyazhwar, Andal, Kulasekarazhwar, Thiruppanazhwar, Thirumazhisaiazhwar, Poigaiazhwar, Bhoothathazhwar, Peyazhwar, Nammazhwar and Thirumangaiazhwar have done mangalasasanam in Thirumala.

Poigaialwar - 10 paasurams.
Boothathalwar - 9 Paasurams.
Peialwar - 19 Paasurams.
Perialwar - 7 Paasurams.
Andal - 16 Paasurams.
Thruppaan alwar - 2 Paasurams.
Kulasekaralwar - 11 Paasurams.
Thirumazhisaialwar - 14 Paasurams.
Nammalwar - 52 Paasurams.
Thirumangaialwar - 62 Paasurams.
Total - 202 Paasurams.

The timing of the first three Alwars is during late 5th and early 6th centuries A.D. So was this a Murugan shrine before that? Silapathikaram makes a reference to Thirumala and is timed even earlier than 5 AD. Was it "converted" even before that then?

Friend Badri,

Wonderful historical timeline. Yes we need to take into account these also. But I would like to put these points also (Please note that I am not saying that this is the proof and to completely believe in it.) It is just a historic peice of information and we need to decide and research a lot before coming to a conclusion.

We have read many historics facts being distorted for their own benefits. What I heard is the same from Tirumala/Tirupathi historic facts being distorted to suit them so that nobody questions them later. In this way, the controversy will die down.

Infact, we have historics like Ramayan and Mahabharath where we get a gist of the information but not the totality of the same.

With this, I don't want to claim that Tirumala/Tirupathi Balaji indeed is a Murugan Temple. But there are some valid questions arising as to how many Balaji temples are found on the hills. People point out that only Tirumala/Tirupathi Balaji temple is the only one where Balaji resides on the HILL.

But Murugan is synonymous with HILL.
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Old 01-04-2006, 08:00 AM   #2
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கண்ணனோ கந்தனோ.. அவர் நமக்கு கண்கண்ட தெய்வம். அது போதாதா ?
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Old 01-23-2006, 08:00 AM   #3
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why stop there?
some also claim that it was a Murugan temple.

riches attract attention like sugar attracts flies.
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Old 03-12-2007, 04:19 AM   #4
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Default Was Tirupati Balaji a Jain/Buddhist temple?
Some Buddhist scholars claim that Tirupati Balaji was originally a Buddhist temple. On the other hand, some Jain scholars claim that it was a Jain temple.

Can anybody throw a light on this issue?

-Mahavir
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Old 03-12-2007, 09:13 PM   #5
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why stop there?
some also claim that it was a Murugan temple.

riches attract attention like sugar attracts flies.
Kripananda Variar , while narrating Kanda puranam ( in casette ) has also clearly mentioned once that it was originally a Muragan temple only !
Hope you believe in Kripananda Variar . Such a learned / renowned person will not utter something silly .
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Old 03-13-2007, 08:26 AM   #6
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why stop there?
some also claim that it was a Murugan temple.

riches attract attention like sugar attracts flies.
Rightly said NOV!
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Old 03-14-2007, 08:25 AM   #7
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Nakeeran,
What was ur thought on discussions abt the Taj Mahal being a Shiva Temple?

If I remember correctly, it was something like..."Let the Satus Quo remain...there's no need to research this stuff" or something....Then why r u suddenly arguing abt this? Same Logic Right?
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Old 03-27-2007, 01:51 AM   #8
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Friends,

Tholkappiyam Payiram(CE100-200) refers Tirupathi as border to Tamilnadu, as Vada Venkatam.

Silapathikaram 240-300CE, refers clearly Srirangam as Kidantha kolam and Tirupathi as Nindra kolam for Perumal

I Do not remember any other worthy reference for any other wat.
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Old 04-13-2007, 09:09 PM   #9
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Friends,

Venkatam- as Tholkappiyama Payiam uses normally means Place where God Venkatesa lives.

Uppuma
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Old 04-17-2007, 01:11 AM   #10
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Some Buddhist scholars claim that Tirupati Balaji was originally a Buddhist temple. On the other hand, some Jain scholars claim that it was a Jain temple.

Can anybody throw a light on this issue?

-Mahavir
Wonderful post.

Well, it is believed that the Tirupathi Balaji temple is a Murugan temple. I don't want to kick any row by this. It is no Buddhist or Jain temple.

The Moolavar has the Vel but is covered by the Silver/Gold plates and the Naamam is put. Actually if you see the face of the Moolavar, it has a child like face and it correlates to Murugan. This is the first point. Secondly, note that Murugan temples are always found on the hill. The Tirupathi Balaji temple doesn't have any Abhishegam shown to the devotees just because the idol has a VEL and is Murugan. They do the Abhishegam and cover off the idol's vel with silver/gold plates and put a naamam to the idol to show that it is indeed Balaji.

It is also believed that during the AP - TN state partition, AP were demanding for Chennai but Rajaji told that TN needs Chennai and gave Tirupathi to AP.

There are also various controversial stories (strong ones) going around but am not posting it here because some may not like it.

Whatever it is, ALL GODS ARE ONE. We are and should be happy by having a glimpse of the ALMIGHTY.

But again, I am worried about some controversial news coming now and then in and around Tirumala and Tirupathi.
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Old 04-17-2007, 01:21 AM   #11
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Leo Simha

The archakas ( temple priests ) who perform day to day pooja are from Tamilnadu only till date !

See, its just few hours from Thiruthani , another abode of Lord Karthikeya. Renigunta is just the 3rd or 4th station of AP after it crosses Puthoor .

Damn sure. It belonged to Madras Rajdani once but went to AP once the state was formed.
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Old 04-17-2007, 01:34 AM   #12
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Leo Simha

The archakas ( temple priests ) who perform day to day pooja are from Tamilnadu only till date !

See, its just few hours from Thiruthani , another abode of Lord Karthikeya. Renigunta is just the 3rd or 4th station of AP after it crosses Puthoor .

Damn sure. It belonged to Madras Rajdani once but went to AP once the state was formed.
yes friend Nakeeran, The archakas/temple priests are from Srirangam (Trichy) and are called Bhattars. There are also news related to Srirangam Ranganathaswamy idol (Utsavar - made of Gold) taken to Tirupathi during the then invasion of one Mughal Emperor down south. Then the rest is history. The Tirumala Murugan temple became history by turning into Tirumala Balaji temple.
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Old 04-17-2007, 02:40 PM   #13
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Among the 12 Alwars, Periyazhwar, Andal, Kulasekarazhwar, Thiruppanazhwar, Thirumazhisaiazhwar, Poigaiazhwar, Bhoothathazhwar, Peyazhwar, Nammazhwar and Thirumangaiazhwar have done mangalasasanam in Thirumala.

Poigaialwar - 10 paasurams.
Boothathalwar - 9 Paasurams.
Peialwar - 19 Paasurams.
Perialwar - 7 Paasurams.
Andal - 16 Paasurams.
Thruppaan alwar - 2 Paasurams.
Kulasekaralwar - 11 Paasurams.
Thirumazhisaialwar - 14 Paasurams.
Nammalwar - 52 Paasurams.
Thirumangaialwar - 62 Paasurams.
Total - 202 Paasurams.

The timing of the first three Alwars is during late 5th and early 6th centuries A.D. So was this a Murugan shrine before that? Silapathikaram makes a reference to Thirumala and is timed even earlier than 5 AD. Was it "converted" even before that then?

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Old 04-19-2007, 05:34 PM   #14
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But there are some valid questions arising as to how many Balaji temples are found on the hills. People point out that only Tirumala/Tirupathi Balaji temple is the only one where Balaji resides on the HILL.
When you say Balaji, I assume you mean Vishnu/Perumal/Thirumal.

There are quite a few temples of Perumal that are situated on a hill.

Kanchipuram is one such. The lord is called Hastigirinathan or the lord of the elephant hill.

Thiruneermalai is another example.

All Narasimha shrines, including Ahobhilam and Thirukadigai (Sholingar), are atop hills

Thirumeyyam Satyagirinathan is again on the hill.

Badrikashramam (Badrinath) is on the mountains

Saligramam is on the mountains

I guess what I am saying is that examples abound of Perumal kovils being atop hills. While Murugan maybe synonymous with hills, that alone doesn't make for enough evidence.
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Old 04-19-2007, 07:02 PM   #15
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I guess what I am saying is that examples abound of Perumal kovils being atop hills. While Murugan maybe synonymous with hills, that alone doesn't make for enough evidence.
Friend Badri,

yes...these are some of the doubts which arise....but if you take the Balaji/Vishnu temples listed by you, those are related to the Avatars...

again Balaji temple at Tirumala is related to an avatar of MahaVishnu, Srinivasa Perumal....again the historians have distorted the facts which we don't know what to believe or not to believe...
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Old 04-20-2007, 02:53 AM   #16
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yes...these are some of the doubts which arise....but if you take the Balaji/Vishnu temples listed by you, those are related to the Avatars...

again Balaji temple at Tirumala is related to an avatar of MahaVishnu, Srinivasa Perumal....again the historians have distorted the facts which we don't know what to believe or not to believe...
I am not sure if you read all the examples Badri ayya gave! Thiruneermalai is a temple to Mahavishnu. So is Thirumeyyam. And Badrinath. And Saligramam (Muktinath).

There were also other major hill-temples to Vishnu in the North. The famous Iron Pillar at Delhi, for example, was originally the Dvajasthambha for the great temple at Vishnupadagiri built by the Guptas.

Tirupathi is by no means unique as a temple to Vishnu built on a hill!
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Old 04-20-2007, 06:54 PM   #17
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Tirupathi is by no means unique as a temple to Vishnu built on a hill!
Mr. Podalangai,

In the south(long time ago), The Father of Tamizh, Lord Subramanya a.k.a Murugan was and is the devotee for many South Indians and especially his temples were to found on HILLs only.
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:04 AM   #18
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why stop there?
some also claim that it was a Murugan temple.

riches attract attention like sugar attracts flies.
i ve really heard this ............. romba varushamaa irukku Tirumala temple ....adula ippadi ellam eppadi claim panraanga ... is there any proof ?
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Old 08-04-2007, 12:50 PM   #19
doctorzlo

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.
Quite interesting... and some Funny too.!

Our Friends Mr NOV and Mr. Badri have posted well meaningfully.

Can Hill location give preferencial qualificaton for Muruha?

Not only several Vishnu temples.. but also Siva Temples too are situated on the Hills...

...for exampe the Sundaresa Temple at Kovoor, sung by Thyagaraja...

... the famous Kedarnath temple on the Himalayan mountains.

What a loose talk... One friend here means to say, that the Original Muruha deity along with his Vael, has been mischivously concealed ...

.. and that his Abhishekam is forbidden for worship.!!

Friends... all these can be verified by anybody in person.

Abhishekam on every Friday is open to one all the Hindu devotees, when you can see with your open eyes... No hide of Muruha nor his Vael.

On what basis... this resurrected claim for Muruha now?

There is one Theertham (Natural Water-tank) on the same hills... named KUMARA-DHARA.. from where lord Muruha worshipped Venkateswara and sang in praise of him.

That Sthothra has been published by TTD.

And Can it be justified to call Venkateswara as Muruha... based on the location on the Hill.?..

... as argued hereabove by some of our friends.

And some claim... that His Left hand appears as if holding a Vael. Perhaps might have been removed.!

Well. My dear friends... see in any Muruha Temple... Does Muruha holds his palm beneath his Knees?... Is it possible to hold a Vael at such a Low level?

And please notice at Thirumalai Venkateswara. Does it appear to be a closed fist... with just enough gap to hold a Vael?...

..whereas the whole palm is open... keeping ALL FINGERS STRAIGHT.. and four Fingers Horizontal...

Can this posture suit for holding anything on Hand?... even it be just a rod?

And taking it as granted... that the Left Hand is the Vael-holding hand...

...what about the other hand, Right palm directing downwards.?... what does it mean for Muruha?

Why there is Nagabaranam on His Hands?... Does Muruha wears such an Ornament... except Lord Siva?

And why there is a sculptural part of Lakshmi and Bhoomi-devi carved on his Chest?... Has Muruha any such significance.?

Sanku Chakras are parts of the Sculpture.. with no marks of Addendum.

Do all these speak of Muruha?

Dear Friends if and when you are puzzled or confused...

...you better consult with well-knowledged persons who are quite competent enough...

... to answer undisputably all the possible subsequent questions too convincing to Commonsense... and Wisdom.

I am writing in detail clarifying on such puzzling questions on Venkateswara... in one of the paragraphs..

...under my Tamil Serial article THAMIZH MARHAI THIRUVAAYMOZHI.. in our monthly Hub Magazine.

Those who are interested are welcome to read and comment.

Then what and who is this so called Balaji Venkateswara at Thirumalai Hills?

He is VENKATA-KRISHNA...named Govinda... presenting the same Darsana to us...

... as he showed to Arjuna as AIKYA-KRISHNA... during Geethopadesa...

... by One UNIFIED FORM comprising of all the Vedic Gods within one shape of Krishna..

..who showed SYMBOLICALLY to Arjuna... alongwith his Gospel... named Charama slokam...

...One Hand showing his holy feet... another Hand showing the Knee-depth of Life Ocean.. to mean...

..."Oh my dear Devotees,.. Don't worry (I am here to protect and save you from your Life-Ocean)...

...if you surrender to ME ONLY... leaving off all yours including your problems at my Feet..

.. I will reduce the huge depth of your Life-Ocean... just upto the Knee- depth...

...so that you need not struggle to swim anymore.for survival..

..but can easily WALK THROUGH... your Life Successfully by my Grace.
.
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Old 08-04-2007, 02:42 PM   #20
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கண்ணனோ கந்தனோ.. அவர் நமக்கு கண்கண்ட தெய்வம். அது போதாதா ?
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