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Old 12-08-2005, 08:00 AM   #1
Big A

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never did cuisine..
orunalum samekella
never was happy..
orunalum santhosa padhezha..
never did atrology..
orunalum saathiram parkezha.
never used savons..
orunalum savookkaram paavikkezha
never used the word religion
orunalum sameyam varkai paavikkezha

What to think now about the letter 'sa' in Tamil..
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Old 03-19-2006, 08:00 AM   #2
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when i read the word SANGAM ... i remember my first year thamizh class ... we had a hot discussion, with somebody quoting that SANGAM itself is not a Thamizh word !

The reason he gave was like in the word SANGAM -> the first letter "sa" as per thamizh dictionary does not exist ! the sa existing is actually cha -> as we are using it dually !

Is this true about SANGAM ?
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Old 04-08-2006, 07:00 AM   #3
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Please see my reply to kannann in the other thread

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=6806








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Old 05-10-2006, 10:57 PM   #4
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Default SANGAM LITERATURE & TAMIL
Friends,

India has been the Theological Source for the World and Both Vedas and Tamil Tradtion are equally Unique.

Tamil Sangam Literature which can be dated from 200BCE to 2oo CE, and TholKappiyam around 50-100CE, has extensivlely refers to Vedas.

Brothers,
During part of discussion I had quoted them and also the Opinion of Scholars such as Pavanar; but as pages go and New friends come they are not able to follow and I begin this thread.

To me both are Great and complimented each other.

Tholkappiyar after Composing sung it in Presence of "Athankottu Asan" who was a Scholar in Four Vedas. " Nan Marai Murriya "

Tholkappiyar which on marriiages refers to Vedic Tradition, and Love Marriage as equivalent to Vedic Kandarva Marriage.

I shall give releavant verses and confirm in my next posts.
DevaPriya.
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Old 05-11-2006, 01:30 AM   #5
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when i read the word SANGAM ... i remember my first year thamizh class ... we had a hot discussion, with somebody quoting that SANGAM itself is not a Thamizh word !

The reason he gave was like in the word SANGAM -> the first letter "sa" as per thamizh dictionary does not exist ! the sa existing is actually cha -> as we are using it dually !

Is this true about SANGAM ?
Ok BG let it be "Changam Literature" what is wrong.....

DevaPriya, I will be happy if you can quote various good stories, which can give/teach some moral ethics to the readers instead of arguing whether it is Vedic or Non-Vedic......
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Old 05-11-2006, 01:35 AM   #6
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when i read the word SANGAM ... i remember my first year thamizh class ... we had a hot discussion, with somebody quoting that SANGAM itself is not a Thamizh word !

The reason he gave was like in the word SANGAM -> the first letter "sa" as per thamizh dictionary does not exist ! the sa existing is actually cha -> as we are using it dually !

Is this true about SANGAM ?
yea BG is rite! the word sangam is not tamil, according to tholkappiyam atleast. Bcoz in tholkappiam it is said that "cha" or "sa" (watever u call, it doesn matter) are not supposed to be the first alphabhets of any proper tamil word. So scholars still wonder wether sangam era existed at all.
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Old 05-11-2006, 04:07 AM   #7
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க த ந ப ம எனும் ஆவைந்து எழுத்தும்
எல்லா உயிரொடும் செல்லுமார் முதலே.
சகரக் கிளவியும் அவற்று ஓரற்றே
அவைஒள எனும் ஒன்றலங் கடையே.

சரி சமழ்ப்புச் சட்டி சருகு சவடி
சளிசகடு சட்டை சவளி - சவிசரடு
சத்து சதங்கை சழக்காதி ஈரிடத்தும்
வந்தனவாற் சம்முதலும் வை

நன்றி: http://valavu.blogspot.com/2006/03/3.html


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Old 05-11-2006, 06:13 AM   #8
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I have read the first para b4, but havent seen the second one. Is that from tholkappiyam too? I will have to search for that book first .
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Old 05-11-2006, 07:38 AM   #9
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I have read the first para b4, but havent seen the second one. Is that from tholkappiyam too? I will have to search for that book first .
Never did I say the second one was from tholkappiam.

PS: I had given the link just to avoid questions like this.




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Old 05-11-2006, 03:13 PM   #10
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sorry i didn check tht link first!
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Old 05-12-2006, 03:25 AM   #11
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க த ந ப ம எனும் ஆவைந்து எழுத்தும்
எல்லா உயிரொடும் செல்லுமார் முதலே.
சகரக் கிளவியும் அவற்று ஓரற்றே
அவைஒள எனும் ஒன்றலங் கடையே.

சரி சமழ்ப்புச் சட்டி சருகு சவடி
சளிசகடு சட்டை சவளி - சவிசரடு
சத்து சதங்கை சழக்காதி ஈரிடத்தும்
வந்தனவாற் சம்முதலும் வை

நன்றி: http://valavu.blogspot.com/2006/03/3.html


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Hi Hi Hi...I can understand the first 2 lines of the first "cheyyulk.." Can some one plz translate the l;ast two line of first stanza and Full second stanza...?
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Old 05-12-2006, 05:35 AM   #12
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the other two lines means that words cant begin with sa, sai, and sou.

the second stanza illustrates instances where words start with "cha" alphabet, and thereby implies that tamil words do start with "cha" .
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Old 05-12-2006, 07:01 AM   #13
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Sangam era had been in existance much before Mr tholkappiyar, hey sappadu, saavu, sundai never existed ? wow tamils never ate, never fighted and never died ?
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Old 05-12-2006, 11:08 AM   #14
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Sangam era had been in existance much before Mr tholkappiyar, hey sappadu, saavu, sundai never existed ? wow tamils never ate, never fighted and never died ?
Mahadevan....Look at this...

Sappaadu - uNavu
Saavu - iRappu
Sundai - hi hi hi ( forgotten, will let you know soon)

So when these words are there, Tamilains eate, fought and died,,, hi hi hi...
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Old 05-12-2006, 12:25 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by mahadevan Sangam era had been in existance much before Mr tholkappiyar, hey sappadu, saavu, sundai never existed ? wow tamils never ate, never fighted and never died ?
Mahadevan....Look at this...

Sappaadu - uNavu
Saavu - iRappu
Sundai - hi hi hi ( forgotten, will let you know soon)

So when these words are there, Tamilains eate, fought and died,,, hi hi hi... hmmm.. okay. you can probably find different words for almost all of those beginning with sa. But what is the other word for "santhi"? If this is not tamil, is the whole of tamil grammar from sanskrit?
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Old 05-13-2006, 01:51 AM   #16
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hmmm.. okay. you can probably find different words for almost all of those beginning with sa. But what is the other word for "santhi"? If this is not tamil, is the whole of tamil grammar from sanskrit?
"Santhi"....what is that? can you explain it....is it "Sandhi" which means "Union" or "Santhi" the future tense of "be" verb.
Both are Samskritham words...if what you mean is different than these above, pls tell me what is that, I hope I can still get a Tamizh word for that...Sorry, if I had misunderstood.
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Old 05-13-2006, 05:57 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by FloraiPuyal hmmm.. okay. you can probably find different words for almost all of those beginning with sa. But what is the other word for "santhi"? If this is not tamil, is the whole of tamil grammar from sanskrit?
"Santhi"....what is that? can you explain it....is it "Sandhi" which means "Union" or "Santhi" the future tense of "be" verb.
Both are Samskritham words...if what you mean is different than these above, pls tell me what is that, I hope I can still get a Tamizh word for that...Sorry, if I had misunderstood. "To meet" or "union" is the tamil meaning. Can you give me an alternate word for this. In tamil grammar, when two words are combined, a character is added as a bridge. This is called as santhi. This word is mentioned in nannool. Of course there are words borrowed from sanskrit into tamil. But not these words.

PS: can anyone explain morphology of sanskrit words? It will be better if illustrated with examples.
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Old 05-13-2006, 06:33 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by srivatsan Originally Posted by FloraiPuyal hmmm.. okay. you can probably find different words for almost all of those beginning with sa. But what is the other word for "santhi"? If this is not tamil, is the whole of tamil grammar from sanskrit?
"Santhi"....what is that? can you explain it....is it "Sandhi" which means "Union" or "Santhi" the future tense of "be" verb.
Both are Samskritham words...if what you mean is different than these above, pls tell me what is that, I hope I can still get a Tamizh word for that...Sorry, if I had misunderstood. "To meet" or "union" is the tamil meaning. Can you give me an alternate word for this. In tamil grammar, when two words are combined, a character is added as a bridge. This is called as santhi. This word is mentioned in nannool. Of course there are words borrowed from sanskrit into tamil. But not these words. "Santhi" is the term used in Sanskrit grammar. The term in Tamil grammar is "punarcchi" (புணர்ச்சி), and the grammatical division dealing with these changes is called "punariyal".

You can also use "punarcchi" (and related words such as "punartal") in non-grammatical contexts, to refer to meeting or union. In ancient Tamil prosody, for example, one of the poetical divisions which dealt with one lover longing for the other and grieving over their separation was called புணராவிரக்கம் (punaravirakkam).
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Old 05-13-2006, 08:05 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by FloraiPuyal Originally Posted by srivatsan Originally Posted by FloraiPuyal hmmm.. okay. you can probably find different words for almost all of those beginning with sa. But what is the other word for "santhi"? If this is not tamil, is the whole of tamil grammar from sanskrit?
"Santhi"....what is that? can you explain it....is it "Sandhi" which means "Union" or "Santhi" the future tense of "be" verb.
Both are Samskritham words...if what you mean is different than these above, pls tell me what is that, I hope I can still get a Tamizh word for that...Sorry, if I had misunderstood. "To meet" or "union" is the tamil meaning. Can you give me an alternate word for this. In tamil grammar, when two words are combined, a character is added as a bridge. This is called as santhi. This word is mentioned in nannool. Of course there are words borrowed from sanskrit into tamil. But not these words. "Santhi" is the term used in Sanskrit grammar. The term in Tamil grammar is "punarcchi" (புணர்ச்சி), and the grammatical division dealing with these changes is called "punariyal".

You can also use "punarcchi" (and related words such as "punartal") in non-grammatical contexts, to refer to meeting or union. In ancient Tamil prosody, for example, one of the poetical divisions which dealt with one lover longing for the other and grieving over their separation was called புணராவிரக்கம் (punaravirakkam). பகுதி விகுதி இடைநிலை சாரியை
சந்தி விகாரம் ஆறினும் ஏற்பவை
முன்னிப் புணர்ப்ப முடியுமெப் பதங்களும்
- நன்னூல்

Punarchi is the process. Santhi is the term to denote the character. A root word is followed by santhi, idainilai, saariyai, vikuthi. Santhi is the very basis of word formation in tamil. If santhi is not tamil, what do you call the character that comes in between pakuthi and idainilai?
eg.,
நடந்தனன் = நட + ந் + த் + அன் + அன் (பகுதி, சந்தி, இடைநிலை, சாரியை, விகுதி)

(or do you want to claim that nannool is translated from sanskrit and tamil has no grammar on her own? )

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Old 05-13-2006, 08:20 AM   #20
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You can also use "punarcchi" (and related words such as "punartal") in non-grammatical contexts, to refer to meeting or union. In ancient Tamil prosody, for example, one of the poetical divisions which dealt with one lover longing for the other and grieving over their separation was called புணராவிரக்கம் (punaravirakkam).
I think, virakkam, is a Samskritham word again, which is "Viraham". I am sure there shd be a Thamizh word for this too...

I have veryu very very poor knowledge about Thamizh literature and grammer. Whaterver, said and argued, after seeing the available quotes from Literature, I feel this, that in ancient days, our ancestors didn't hesitate to use other language's words and they meant no superioarity or inferiority. I think, only in the middle ages, due to some mal-elements, unncessary politcs were created and in resolving this politics, we hav lost many valuable things....
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