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Old 09-03-2012, 03:02 AM   #21
MilenaMKB

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After the behaviour at Ferrari during Schumachers era, I find this very hypocritical!!!

Belgian GP: Ferrari wants driving standards tightened after Spa start crash - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:17 AM   #22
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Except the obvious Groejan and "three at once Pastor" I can mension Senna for his tyre strategy. Its not a big deal to lose your tyres trying to save one pit stop, but when you are sliding all around the track for about 10 laps and finally decide to change them 5 laps before the end, it is pure donkeyness for me. Compare how Mercedes reacted to similar problem.

I can also give "thumbs down" (not a donkey) to Di Resta and Webber for being nowhere their teammates. And Kobayashi for overheating the brakes.
Di Resta was without KERS. A serious handicap at Spa.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:03 AM   #23
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Grosjean for his stupid manouvre. Easy choice!
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:29 AM   #24
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Gorsjean, but with a very honourable mention to Schmacher - that was all class.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:36 AM   #25
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Crazy, crazy boy but this sort of thing is going to happen when drivers don't respect others around them. There was no reason to squeeze Lewis to the wall. He would have had track position going into the first but the Swueeze is now a part of some drivers armoury. Perfected by Schumy in the first place, we are seeing more and more drivers use it and it's bloody dangerous. 3 drivers out there today could quite easily have fared badly in this crash. It's about time this sort of driving is punished hard.
Imo I don't think it was a deliberate squeeze, the way he moved over suggested to me that Romain thought he had that bit of track to himself and had no idea Lewis was alongside. Still remarkebly poor driving, but it didn't feel like a chop/squeeze on a rival to me.

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Old 09-03-2012, 09:03 AM   #26
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Imo I don't think it was a deliberate squeeze, the way he moved over suggested to me that Romain thought he had that bit of track to himself and had no idea Lewis was alongside. Still remarkebly poor driving, but it didn't feel like a chop/squeeze on a rival to me.

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Grosjean accepts ban from Italy GP after Spa crash - Yahoo! Eurosport UK

his interview say's it all

apparently he can't judge space and doesn't know how to figure out where drivers are around him at the start of the race
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Old 09-03-2012, 11:55 AM   #27
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The regulations, which allow wheels to remain uncovered and unguarded.
If the wheels had been guarded, Grosjean's car would not have been thrown into the air and we would not be having this discussion,

Grosjean should have looked in his mirrors and was thick, but he can't be held responsible for stupid and dangerous regulations.
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Old 09-03-2012, 11:58 AM   #28
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F1: Maldonado given 10-place penalty for Monza | Sports | GMA News Online | The Go-To Site for Filipinos Everywhere
Venezuelan Formula One driver Pastor Maldonado will have a 10-place penalty on the starting grid for next weekend's Italian Grand Prix after making a false start and then causing a collision on Sunday.

The Williams driver has collected more sanctions than any other driver this season and started Sunday's race at Spa with a three-place penalty for impeding Nico Hulkenberg's Force India in qualifying.
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:46 PM   #29
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Grosjean should have looked in his mirrors and was thick, but he can't be held responsible for stupid and dangerous regulations.
Agree with the first part of the sentence but even though the second is true, it was still his job to work under those regulations and not put others at risk needlessly.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:33 PM   #30
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In a way I feel sorry for Grosjean because I believe he genuinely is remorseful for what happened and simply just misjudged the space. He doesn't seem like a malicious driver to me, nor does he appear to have a persona indicative of someone like Pastor that would intentionally put you in the wall. He just simply made a mistake. I think this penalty was the right one however, because I honestly believe he will become a better driver for it and hopefully now he will avoid first lap incidents in the future. He has surprised me with his speed this year and I'm sure he will continue to improve over the coming seasons without such silly errors as yesterday.
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:26 PM   #31
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In a way I feel sorry for Grosjean because I believe he genuinely is remorseful for what happened and simply just misjudged the space. He doesn't seem like a malicious driver to me, nor does he appear to have a persona indicative of someone like Pastor that would intentionally put you in the wall. He just simply made a mistake. I think this penalty was the right one however, because I honestly believe he will become a better driver for it and hopefully now he will avoid first lap incidents in the future. He has surprised me with his speed this year and I'm sure he will continue to improve over the coming seasons without such silly errors as yesterday.
I don't think it's about becoming a better driver. He's 26, a seasoned veteran in formula-type cars and therefore he should be able to have spacial awareness at this stage of his career and yet he doesn't. It's actually quite worrying for him, since you shouldn't be on the race track if you, for some reason, are not able to judge where others are.
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:29 PM   #32
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I understand that Webber did not have Vettel's pace today, but he certainly did not benefit from crazy pit strategy. Why, I ask, when catching a Force India, then being held up,
would you pit at exactly the same time? One lap earlier or one lap later means at the very least you have a CHANCE to overtake. I have witnessed Red Bull do this time and time
again to Mark and I will never understand it.
Grosjean and a mention for Kova for Donkey.
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:19 PM   #33
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I don't think it's about becoming a better driver. He's 26, a seasoned veteran in formula-type cars and therefore he should be able to have spacial awareness at this stage of his career and yet he doesn't. It's actually quite worrying for him, since you shouldn't be on the race track if you, for some reason, are not able to judge where others are.
His spatial awareness at other times in races is just fine, he's put in some very fine moves over the first half of the season as well as being quick.

Grosjean's problem is the first lap and I suspect there's a mental approach issue here. I'm sure with this ban he'll work on whatever is causing the problem. Since he's gotten away without causing injuries he's lost out as much as anyone else IMO through his accidents since he'd have a fine points tally without them.

Maldonaldo on the other hand is an equal opportunity problem causer. He doesn't discriminate between free practice, quali, race starts, middles and ends. He'll even cause accidents outside sessions. That IMO is more serious and requires stronger action.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:50 PM   #34
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The regulations, which allow wheels to remain uncovered and unguarded.
If the wheels had been guarded, Grosjean's car would not have been thrown into the air and we would not be having this discussion,

Grosjean should have looked in his mirrors and was thick, but he can't be held responsible for stupid and dangerous regulations.
It's up to the drivers to keep away from those wheels. IMO unguarded wheels are what formula-type racing is all about. What the heck, let's ban the whole sport, the regulations are stupid anyway since the cars are able to travel at 300km/h. That's mightily dangerous.

His spatial awareness at other times in races is just fine, he's put in some very fine moves over the first half of the season as well as being quick.

Grosjean's problem is the first lap and I suspect there's a mental approach issue here. I'm sure with this ban he'll work on whatever is causing the problem. Since he's gotten away without causing injuries he's lost out as much as anyone else IMO through his accidents since he'd have a fine points tally without them.

Maldonaldo on the other hand is an equal opportunity problem causer. He doesn't discriminate between free practice, quali, race starts, middles and ends. He'll even cause accidents outside sessions. That IMO is more serious and requires stronger action.
He has less cars around him after the start so making a successful overtaking manouver on one car doesn't mean anything. When one driver has problems in more than 50% of the starts and it has nothing to do with the car (look at Kimi), then IMO the driver has a very serious problem. Things happen so fast that they must do things instinctively, there is no time to think about approach etc.
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:09 PM   #35
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After watching it several times It seems obvious to me that RG lost concentration when he jinked to the right suddenly and made contact, and it's become a theme with him this season on the starts. The Boss got in his face, and I donít think he would be out of line if he clothesline him as a punctuation mark.
Even though Alonso came the closest to being seriously clocked, Hamilton was the one that RG turned into a projectile
But the part I found worrisome was when they finally got an interview with RG he said (paraphrasing) that he didnít know what happened and needed to see a video. That deserves a ban in and of itself, and may have been a factor in the decision to ban him for a race.
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:41 PM   #36
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The regulations, which allow wheels to remain uncovered and unguarded.
If the wheels had been guarded, Grosjean's car would not have been thrown into the air and we would not be having this discussion
Grosjean should have looked in his mirrors and was thick, but he can't be held responsible for stupid and dangerous regulations.
If you want to satisfy health & safety then lets just ban motor racing altogether.

After the behaviour at Ferrari during Schumachers era, I find this very hypocritical!!!

Belgian GP: Ferrari wants driving standards tightened after Spa start crash - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com
They no longer have Schumi driving for the Scuderia and can say what they like whereas Ross Brawn continues to play the apologist card

Michael Schumacher defended by Ross Brawn after Rubens Barrichello near-miss - Telegraph

Back to Ferrari, they make a valid point. Aggressive/ruthless/inimidatory racing used to be about who had the biggest balls whereas today it's more common because safety is taken for granted?

It goes back to Nigel Roebuck often remarking how Mario Andretti's theory that roll hoops and safety cages in dirt track oval racing led to more incidents because drivers pushing the limits of racing.
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Old 09-03-2012, 11:33 PM   #37
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Fair enough Wedge. I was using the Schumy example as he was the main protagonist and not too long ago did the same to Hamilton and nearly put Massa in the wall at speed. I have consistently called for this to be stamped out and hopefully the fans and FIA will see why it's so dangerous.

However, it's so common now with a few drivers that it's got wayyyy out of hand and's not just limited to one driver.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:25 AM   #38
DeilMikina

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Lewis for Twittergate
F1: Rival Teams To Study Hamilton Telemetry - Horner
Having re-signed Mark Webber for 2012 despite rumors of approaches by Hamilton's management, Red Bull chief Christian Horner boasted that his drivers would never commit a similar "breach of confidentiality".

"From what I understand it was car data, and if it was car data then I'm sure every engineer in the pitlane is having a very close look at it," said Horner.
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:25 AM   #39
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What the heck, let's ban the whole sport, the regulations are stupid anyway since the cars are able to travel at 300km/h. That's mightily dangerous.
If you want to satisfy health & safety then lets just ban motor racing altogether.
Since I appear to be such a bad person for suggesting that something dangerous needs to be looked at, am I to take it that if Alonso had died, then you would have deemed that as an acceptable risk?

Please clarify.
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:46 AM   #40
LSg44PDu

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I wonder, had the cars been equipped like this:


Would we be even having this discussion at all?
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