[Yarmark]

Face meet egg, egg meet face

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._afghan27.html

Sunday, August 27, 2006 - Page updated at 12:00 AM

U.S. general: Pakistan, Taliban not conspiring
By FISNIK ABRASHI

The Associated Press

KABUL, Afghanistan — A coalition airstrike in southern Afghanistan killed a Taliban commander and 15 other militants, the U.S. military said Saturday. A top American general, meanwhile, said insurgents are still using neighboring Pakistan as a base for infiltration.

Two French soldiers were killed and two others were wounded in the volatile east on Friday, while at least 13 other insurgents were killed in clashes with police and NATO in the south, the U.S. military said.

On Saturday, Canadian troops in the south mistakenly killed a policeman and wounded six other people, including two civilians, according to NATO.

Afghanistan is experiencing its worst bout of violence since the 2001 ouster of the Taliban regime for hosting al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden. More than 1,600 people, mostly militants, have died in the past four months, according to an Associated Press tally of violent incidents reported by U.S., NATO and Afghan officials.

Gen. John Abizaid, commander of the U.S. Central Command, said militants are using Pakistan as a base to infiltrate into Afghanistan, but he said the Pakistani government is not conspiring with them.

"I think that Pakistan has done an awful lot in going after al-Qaida and it's important that they don't let the Taliban groups be organized in the Pakistani side of the border," he said in Bagram, where the main U.S. military base in Afghanistan is located.

Abizaid said he does not believe accusations of collusion between Pakistan's government and the resurgent Taliban rebels or other extremists.

"You do not order your soldiers in the field against an enemy in order to play some sort of a game with neighboring countries," he said.

Afghanistan repeatedly has criticized Pakistan for not doing enough to prevent Taliban militants and other rebels from crossing the border.

Pakistan says it does all it can to tackle insurgents and has deployed 80,000 troops along the frontier.

[valensds]

Lies, Pakistan is an ally!

[Prarnenoexpog]

Hm. So, to recap, we've kicked AQ out of a nation ruled by a chaotic, relatively weak regime that could be knocked over by some local warlords and a bit of US support. After which, we got preoccupied with other issues and didn't bother to put any effort into maintaining a relationship with one of our allies in kicking them out, which was summarily invaded by the ousted regime and AQ. As a result, the two groups are now being hosted by a more powerful state armed with nuclear weapons which is full of people who would not look kindly on any US attempt to strike inside their territory.

Mission Accomplished!

Bush

[Ecurrexchangess]

But yeah, right. Whatever the Hell this guy is talking about. Dumbass.

According to House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-IL), the congressional move enables the president to declare war, "to the extent that war can realistically be declared on, like, maybe three or four Egyptian guys, an Algerian, and this other guy who kind of looks Lebanese but could be Syrian. Or whoever else it might have been. Because it might not have been them."

[JesikaFclq]

Probably because it's from the Onion.

[sterofthemasteool]

You expect things to be simple in Pakistan?

"ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) _ Pakistan's top army spokesman on Wednesday vehemently denied saying in a news report that Osama bin Laden would not be taken into custody if he agreed to live peacefully in Pakistan. "This is absolutely fabricated, absurd. I never said this," Maj Gen Shaukat Sultan told The Associated Press, referring to an ABC News broadcast aired hours earlier.

The ABC report cited Sultan as saying in a telephone interview that al-Qaida chief bin Laden "would not be taken into custody" if found, "as long as one is being like a peaceful citizen." Sultan's recorded comments were included in the report, but it was not immediately clear whether he understood that bin Laden was the specific subject of discussion at that point in the interview. Sultan told the AP by phone that "what they are saying on Osama is absolutely fabricated." "Pakistan is committed to its policy on the war on terror, and Osama, caught anywhere in Pakistan, would be brought to justice," he said.

Asked for a response, Jeffrey Schneider, senior vice president of ABC News, told the AP by phone, "We simply played his comments as we recorded them." The ABC report also featured former White House counterterrorism official Richard Clarke saying a peace accord, signed Tuesday by Pakistan's government and pro-Taliban militants in the country, meant that "the Taliban and al-Qaida leadership have effectively carved out a sanctuary inside Pakistan." "I reject this comment," Sultan said Wednesday. Clarke is a news consultant with ABC.

In Washington, Pakistan's Ambassador Mahmud Ali Durrani issued a statement late Tuesday night saying Sultan "has been grossly misquoted in a section of U.S. media today." "Pakistan is on the hunt for Osama Bin Laden and his associates. If he is in Pakistan, today or any time later, he will be taken into custody and brought to justice.""

[venediene]

I'm probably naive, but I don't see Pakistan harboring Bin Laden or anyone else of his breed. At least I hope not.

[Roorseprate]

Originally posted by Arrian
Pakistan is a friggin' mess. Assuming nobody's been misquoted here... isn't this just an admission of reality?

-Arrian Its reality that theyve never had control over Waziristan, and to get control would require either a larger military force, letting US or Nato troops in, or both, and that they dont really have the resources for the former, and they dont have the domestic political support for the latter. So yeah, it IS a friggin mess.

But its also true that OBL and Zawahiri twice tried to kill Musharraf, and the notion that hed just say yeah, OBL can be a good citizen, and thumb his nose at the US by saying so, seems beyond credible. It is NOT made easy to discuss the REAL mess when any old thing can be floated, as long as its embarrassing to US policy. If, as I suspect, this is a misquote, I think the accountability of ABC needs to be examined (it goes without saying that the admin should be held accountable for its mistakes, before anyone jumps on me about that)

[JonDopl]

"Q. ABC News: If Bin Laden or [Ayman al-] Zawahri were there, they could stay?

A. Gen Sultan: No-one of that kind can stay. If someone is there he will have to surrender, he will have to live like a good citizen, his whereabouts, exit travel would be known to the authorities.

Q. ABC News: So, he wouldn't be taken into custody? He would stay there?

A. Gen Sultan: No, as long as one is staying like a peaceful citizen, one would not be taken into custody. One has to stay like a peaceful citizen and not allowed to participate in any kind of terrorist activity. "

Obviously Gen Sultan is first saying no one like OBL can stay. He then segues that if someone, obviously meanin ordinary Taliban, NOT OBL, surrendere and will live like a good citizen he would only have to give his location to authorities. ABC asks "would HE be taken into custody" without specifying that they are talking about OBL - either the reporter missed the segue, or is ignoring it.

The general then fails to pick up that ABC missed his segue.


ABC

[drycleden]

If this all is true, I think they shouldn't be called allies even in the most out of the touch of reality-speeches.

I smell lots of rain coming in.

[Grewlybreekly]

I think LotM's interpretation is reasonable, but I can't say for sure (language barrier is indeed possible).

-Arrian

[opelonafqe]

Originally posted by Lorizael
I think you're inferring an awful lot there, LoTM. I'm not really sure that you know enough about this general's intentions and mindset to make such assumptions about what he meant. Except my reading exactly matches what the general told AP, if you read my post above.

Yup, he knows english. Its the ABC reporter who has the English problems, since in his follow up question he ignored the obvious change in referand for "he".


I live with someone who has an annoying tendency to overuse pronouns, and change referands. QOTM: "The history teacher gave POTM extra homework, shes really making me upset" "er, the history teacher is making you upset, or POTM is making you upset?" This is common problem with English speakers who are less than precise in their usage. In this case I blame the ABC reporter for the imprecise usage, and the ABC editors for not catching it.

[FBtquXT8]

Originally posted by LordShiva
Shouldn't LOTM's wife (if QOTM does indeed refer to LOTM's wife) be Lady OTM?

But I think LOTM's interpretation is spot on otherwise. You need to go back and see the thread, "Is the Lord of the Mark a king?" We got a very involved discussion of Tolkien lore, and established that Theoden, Lord of the Mark, is sometimes called King of Rohan.


http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=96296

[Cerilopasei]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


You need to go back and see the thread, "Is the Lord of the Mark a king?" We got a very involved discussion of Tolkien lore, and established that Theoden, Lord of the Mark, is sometimes called King of Rohan.


http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=96296 Doh, missed that thread during my hiatus. Good fun

-Arrian

[9V4i8xw1]

Yeah, right.

[Enfonebew]

Originally posted by Dis
if we capture him, he will be a martyr and the attacks will escalade. We should leave him be. They're car-bombing with Cadillacs now? Those bastards!

[anderriter]

Okay, CNN reports that Pakistan is furiously denying the OBL amnesty. In related news, Afghanistan is currently led by Daredevil's girlfriend's dad (L). Does that fool honestly think his opium-lord henchmen can protect him from the Kingpin?

[Shemker394]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
You need to go back and see the thread, "Is the Lord of the Mark a king?" We got a very involved discussion of Tolkien lore, and established that Theoden, Lord of the Mark, is sometimes called King of Rohan. Interesting thread. But while Theoden, LOTM, may have been a king, that doesn't make him King of the Mark. The Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire was King of Italy, but not Emperor of Italy nor King of the Holy Roman Empire.

Therefore, I would that you stop referring to our Lady of the Mark as QOTM

(I didn't read more than the first couple posts of that thread, but if you guys didn't come up with the above conclusion, you should have )

[chzvacmyye]

I'm just waiting until Pakistani nukes are smuggled into the USA - that's when the fireworks will really start . And that is an inevitability unless the USA changes its stance towards Pakistan - denying their involvement in the global terror network and convincing yourself that they are your allies is the path to disaster . A Pakistan based organisation , which was responsible for the Mumbai serial blasts , has now cells active all over Europe . It is only a matter of time - a few years at most - until they infiltrate America . And then it will be too late .


But keep deluding yourselves . You are the ones who will suffer , as we have , if you don't change . We in India have finally stopped caring .

[spapsinee]

Originally posted by aneeshm
We in India have finally stopped caring . Except when it comes to whining about your own nuclear weapons program, right?