[VastDrura]

. But, even here, eventually you will have to get up to use the bathroom and then probably loose the recliner for sure. Maybe you know a way around this?

Yes, of course I do, but it is not within the scope of this forum to expound upon. Not that anything written by me is... ^;^

Paul

[Cheeniandab]

Why would you? One based on the below and two because all they will try to do is "re-educate" you into their faith.

Exactly. What I'm getting at overall is for one thing there is a risk for an Orthodox going to any church ourside the Orthodox Church especially when they would try at some point to convert you.

Let me give an example. When I was still part of the Roman Church looking East and I was involved with their Eastern Church I was warned to keep from the Orthodox for they would try to convert. Then again, I was looking towards Orthodoxy anyway.

[machpamb]

While these considerations are fine, they are not totally in line with the topic that we're discussing here. We aren't trying to figure out whether an Orthodox layman should attend a non-Orthodox church, nor are we trying to figure out whether an Orthodox bishop or spiritual father should-- under specific circumstances-- advise a person to attend a non-Orthodox church. Rather, we're trying to figure out the degree of obedience that an Orthodox layman owes his bishop or spiritual father. Assume as a matter of fact that a spiritual father has advised one of his spiritual children to attend a non-Orthodox church for some specific pastoral reason; should the spiritual child obey or not?

[BuyNetHosting]

Actually,the original question that started this thread was:

"My question is, is it permitted for an Orthodox Christian to attend a church of another denomination, perhaps the Catholic church, on occasion?"

It has, admittedly, morphed in other directions, with some novel misperceptions about obedience and oikonomia.

[soipguibbom]

On the issue of obedience within the monastic life:

"Indeed, all the Fathers of monasticism tell us that there are only two reasons which permit, or even oblige, the monk to criticize or leave his Elder, after having placed himself under obedience: first, if the Elder should fall into heresy and remain unrepentant; and second, if he deliberately provides occassions for temptation or encourages his monks to serious sins of moral turpitude. These two exceptions are even noted in the Holy Canons of the Orthodox Church, which are extremely severe to the monk who abandons his monastery."

(Themes in Orthodox Patristic Psychology, page 156-157, originally published in Obedience, published by Holy Cross Press.)

[Jambjanatan]

Another point is, say for instance there are no Orthodox Churches around and the only church around for the Orthodox individual is a charismatic or other non-liturgical denomination.

Could we see Orthodox that are isolated going to just any church....say one that considers Orthodoxy as heretical?

Could I? Well, theoretically, yes - but I am unable to envision a realistic scenario which would call for that. The further from Orthodoxy you get, the greater the "cost" side grows in the spiritual cost-benefit analysis. Once you get "out there" far enough, I can no longer envision a personality type which could derive some benefit from that type of non-Orthodox service yet not be able to benefit more from just staying home and doing personal prayers and/or reader services.

[Poreponko]

The Church is the bride of Christ. Trying to legitimize attendence at non-Orthodox services through oikonomia is like saying, through oikonomia, one can be given a blessing to commit adultery if you are separated from your living spouse for an extended period of time.

Well, no. Our sacramental union with Christ is though the Eucharist, so your analogy would properly apply to taking communion in a non-Orthodox church. Which, as far as I can tell, no-one here is advocating under any circumstances.

[vNQmO2BF]

Well, no. Our sacramental union with Christ is though the Eucharist, so your analogy would properly apply to taking communion in a non-Orthodox church. Which, as far as I can tell, no-one here is advocating under any circumstances.

"The fact of the matter is that prayer with those who are not Orthodox is no different from sacramental Communion with those who are not Orthodox, or recognition of those outside of Orthodoxy as being one with the Church despite their separation from us in ecclesiastical fact and in matters of faith and worship. These things are all contradictory to Orthodoxy for they all deny the unity of the Church, suggesting that the Trinity is divided."

http://newmartyr.org.uk/files/prayerheterodox.pdf

[55TRATTERENRY]

So I shouldn't pray over my food with my heterodox family? I agree about not taking their sacraments, but if people want to pray to God, I am not going to turn my back on them becuase I am "better" than they are. Look towards the Publican and Pharisee.

[encumeterz]

Rather, we're trying to figure out the degree of obedience that an Orthodox layman owes his bishop or spiritual father. Assume as a matter of fact that a spiritual father has advised one of his spiritual children to attend a non-Orthodox church for some specific pastoral reason; should the spiritual child obey or not?

100% unless he violates the Laws of God. I have been working especially hard at this since we have our new priest. When he says jump, I don't ask how high. I ask when can I come down?