[BadbarmrapBef]

Personal? Good grief, grow a harder skin will you!

I call it how I see it too – and I see it quite differently most of the time.

I am pretty sure the ABs will win Saturday – and they are a great side to watch. Should I ignore their flaws though? I don’t think they are perfect – and I don’t think man for man they are all the best players in the world (some certainly are – but not all).

You are plain wrong about Moody – when on form he is top drawer. I’ll be fair and say you have been seeing him played out of position (he is a blindside – and a damn good one) at a time he has been plagued by injuries and suspensions so he is not at the top of his game. You are right about Corry – not sure if it is fitness but something is holding him back. I’d be amazed if both men don’t raise it for Saturday. I didn’t rate Sanderson at Quins – he is a better player now he skippers Worcester but it is fair to say he is only there because the men in front of him are all crocked.

I do love your countryman Zinzan though – he is very impressive in the way he does no research for his BBC column:

They are putting a lot of emphasis on Andrew Sheridan as a big man to turn things around, but if had been that good he would have forced his way into the Lions team in the summer Well that is true – he might have. Were it not for the fact he got injured (fractured fibula) before the tests. God bless you Zinny. Great player, 40 watt bulb up top.

I will tell you this though Andydog – I am worried about your views of the English club game so would like you to answer a question for me. Lets look at the top four clubs in the Premiership shall we – Sale, Wasps, Leicester and Gloucester.

I’m just curious friend but where are the tri-nations specialists in the packs of any of those sides? I can name several Frenchmen and an Argentinian – but I am struggling to name any tri-nations SH players. The closest I can get is the retired Craig Dowd who helps coach the Wasps forwards – but they are an English unit with a French hooker (Ibanez)

When I look at the other end of the table I see a lot of sides with some very high profile tri-nations forwards - Sarcens, Newcastle, Irish, Bath. And a lot of tri-nations coaches coaching them.

Still – why let the facts stop a point you wanted to make regardless eh?

I don’t want to drag anyone else into the debate but if anyone has any views on whether Woodcock, Mealamu, Collins and So'oialo are firstly automatically better than their English counterparts and secondly the best players in their positions in the world please do chip in. I would say they are all fair player at best - with Mealamu perhaps having the potential to be really good.

[Blaxastij]

So you did. I must be paranoid about the SH part. Sorry. It does undermine my point somewhat when I misread your post.

I found two players under my mistaken reading anyway - Taione at Sale and Jake Boer at Gloucester.

Plus of course Tigers did have Josh Kronfeld for nearly three seasons. Fantastic player to watch - we were spolit with him and Backy on the books together.

So yes you are quite right - Wasps have a French Hooker. Tigers an Argentinian-Italian prop (normally benched), a Welshman and two Irishmen (the four seldom play at the same time). Sale have at least one Frenchman and Gloucester a Frenchman and an Italian IIRC.

Although I thought most English clubs were pretty well placed in the HC to be honest? And I can't find the poor results you cited against Celts in that competition with the exception of Wasps suprising loss to Edingburgh and Leeds getting hammered by Blues (but Leeds are in real relegation trouble anyway).

Sheridans Sale have blown away both Munster and Dragons, Bath beat Leinster in Dublin and the other English top flight sides have not faced Welsh sides yet in the HC.

There have been a few losses in the Anglo-Welsh cup but that is really a tertiary competition for Development sides and not really a useful indicator of much.

[Kragh]

I like the new thread title and its nicely appropriate other than the current run of form against NH, NZ are some of the best(that get away with it) illegal stealers of the ball on the floor in the world

It will be a fierce game on saturday up front - Havak should love it but i have a feeling it will be the backs that make the winning difference, AB's to win by 7points or more is what i'm thinking.

[BariGrootrego]

A winning strategy = tie their hands behind their backs? Might only win by that 7 points then?

A German pope eh? Who would ever have thought it.

I have a feeling the margin will be more than 7 in all honesty but I really don't expect to be completely blown away up front (over rated pack and all). It's not June, no big cats are involved and it's not NZ - even if the ABs remain an absolutely awesome prospect.

We might well be blown away - but that will be down to the terrific continuity game they play and their backs cutting us apart thanks to it.

If we can emulate the Boks in the pack and with setting our loosies down Carters throat we might even compete a little. We have got to take it to them at the contact areas.

The other games are intriguing for me - I think it's a job saver for Eddie. And I also suspect another SH win in Cardiff. Wales really need this SH scalp or they should stop talking about themselves as serious RWC contenders?

[slarceSelia]

It's not the welsh camp talking their chances up the most - it's the fans. But search hard enough and you will find player quotes too.

I think you can probably guess the name of the player who has talked Wales up for the RWC the most?

He looks orange, doesn't play much rugby anymore, slags his team mates off in books and dates a pop tart.

Good luck against the Boks - I really mean that. I want a confident Wales arriving at twickers in early February.

[Joircarm]

saw that... who cares

[traiffhetl]

Originally posted by Havak
Good luck against the Boks - I really mean that. I want a confident Wales arriving at twickers in early February. Mmmm. Refresh my memory here but what exactly was the attitude of the Welsh the last time the two teams met?

[Siliespiriulk]

And a quick comment for LDiCesare:

I'm really enjoying Civ 4 - it has grabbed hold of me in a way that Civ 3 never did. I can't put my finger on exactly why except to say this - the 'fun' is back with it.

[MrsGoo]

Very bad news about McCaw.

I know Masoe is no mug - but he is no McCaw either.

I guess you also have to feel for Wales? Not only do they have an injury crisis so serious that Dafyd James is recalled on the wing after a three year absence but they also have to cope with Stuart Dickinson as referee. Poor sods.

[uneniaPhenits]

I listened to the Wallabies -v- Ireland match. It sounded like the less incompetent team on the day won. Cripes, Ireland must be travelling badly.

[Andrew1978]

And an interesting reversal of the situation in NZ a couple of years ago. Then, in a close game, the ABs couldn't beat England who were suffering card-itis. Then again, in those days, England had a leader.

Leicester did, too.

[Sandra_18X]

It was a secret ballot. Well, secret until, straight afterwards, the ARU announced they'd voted for Japan. Bet that thrilled the Kiwis.

[AlexanderPalamayr]

Its funny how you can just loose your game isn't it?
I dont believe all Havaks disparaging remarks about the welsh team that won the six nations. Although i think he has a point in particular about the england game.

Still for me the eye opener was the victory in Paris. I dont think it was an especialy weak French side, or even a poor french performance - they seemed in control at half time.

It was the what happend after that made me see the welsh team of that six nations for what it really was, a team that had found self belief and an enjoyment in its rugby. To come from behind and beat France in Paris isnt easy, even if the french team isnt playing that well. To do it when they were seeming to be ok was special and maybe worthy to win the six nations by itself?

Anyway now wales are rubbish again and it will be a long hard winter to rebuild to that level(if it is at all possible). The whole face of rugby has been changing in Wales over tha last few years, which isn't going to help.

I only pray that come the clash with England in feb - a small miracle will have happend

And congrats for NZ getting the World Cup - it should be something special, with the team they have etc

[NodePark]

Originally posted by child of Thor
Its funny how you can just loose your game isn't it?
I dont believe all Havaks disparaging remarks about the welsh team that won the six nations. Although i think he has a point in particular about the england game.

Still for me the eye opener was the victory in Paris. I dont think it was an especialy weak French side, or even a poor french performance - they seemed in control at half time.

It was the what happend after that made me see the welsh team of that six nations for what it really was, a team that had found self belief and an enjoyment in its rugby. To come from behind and beat France in Paris isnt easy, even if the french team isnt playing that well. To do it when they were seeming to be ok was special and maybe worthy to win the six nations by itself? I watched the 6 Nations from Oz. If you want an objective opinion, I thought they well and truly deserved to win the 6 Nations. The win against the French pretty much justified it. That was the stand out. But I think the tournament needs to be taken in isolation. England were crap for most of the event, and Wales fell over the line against them. Nor were the Irish or the Scots strong. But you can only beat the oppo on the day. The French, in the first half, were very good. I thought Wales struggled, as do most teams when the French are very good. The second half was fascinating. Did the French go off the boil? Or did Wales lift? Both, I thought. I don't know whether the former allowed the latter, but just as the first half was played on French terms, the second half developed on Wales' terms. It was a terrific effort from a confident team with pretty much a full complement of players. A team on a roll.

Now? The confidence roll has been interrupted, the opposition is stronger, and, crucially, key players are missing, making it, I think, impossible to judge where the team is. Get the players back and wait and see.

[ReggieRed]

Originally posted by Andydog




It's Wellington that gets all the wind. You weren't in Dunedin when we were!

[wallyfindme]

That's what I said.

[kanchouska]

Originally posted by Havak
edit......

Wales will raise their game for twickers as they always do – and the returning players will help. I am not sure it will be enough. Unlike yourself I hope it will not be enough. ah the wonderfull mesh that is the uk and its various peoples
just for fun i hope a miricile happens + the orange one comes back and has a virtuoso performance against you - like scot gibbs at his best did

Originally posted by Havak
I am, however, getting thoroughly ****** off that Tigers keep losing whilst haemorrhaging players to England, Ireland and Samoa (Tuilagi brothers) over these international weekends. We have London-Irish on Friday night at home and once again they haven’t lost a single player to internationals. They really should call themselves London-Boks anyway! I agree - its a crazy situation, and its started to creep into the welsh game these laset few seasons after all the drastic domestic restructuring that has been going on. Its been crazy in wales - we've had international players left without a club(mervin davies for a while!), or having to play in the lower leagues(Colin Jarvis). Ok its good to shake up the very clanncentric and ametuer nature of the old order of welsh clubs.....maybe. But all this stuff as with Englands club vs country tug-o-war is not helping anybody at the momment.

I think that its something that definately harms the NH teams compared to the SH teams, hopefuly it will sort itslef out before too long.......before we loose more games against the SH sides

[Narus63]

Originally posted by Havak

The decision took a real slating on the BBCs Rugby Special – did anyone else catch that? No, but it turns out that England also voted for Japan. Australia voting for Japan has well and truly p*ssed off the Kiwis. There's talk of all sorts of revenge.

But…does it? Perhaps the Kiwi lads can comment on that? Someone in the Oz media also questioned the accommodation situation. They said it's already hard enough finding accommodation in the lead up to a Wallabies - ABs Test match. The Kiwis are arguing that they coped with the visiting Lions supporters, but that's small beer - pun intended - compared to a World Cup influx. I noted someone in, I think, Auckland promising X additional hotel rooms will be available before the event. Fine, but what about the other, smaller places that will have to accommodate an influx?

I saw a few chunks of it. They did okay. My instinct tells me they are the better way to proceed. Ireland weren’t the greatest test perhaps but they certainly held their own in the scrum from what I saw. I thought things went better before Baxter came on than afterwards – he replaced Fitter about ten mins into the second half. The broadcasters seemed to think the new front row held its own. That the Irish tried to target it but to not much effect. Which is undoubtedly a reflection on the Irish forwards. Apparently the Wallabies' first scrum collapse coincided with Baxter's arrival. It also seems that Holmes has been deemed too inexperienced and Matt Dunning will replace him this week.

It was a messy game but the Aussie backs are masters of making something out of not much. Mitchell is a real find. Yes, I managed to find the short video highlights package on the BBC website. Mitchell seems to have bulked up a bit, adding strength to his game without losing any speed. I'm glad to see Chris Latham producing the goods consistently. He's worked so hard on eliminating his defensive brain fades.

The better team won on balance – we need backs with a little more about them going forwards. I listened to slabs of it in between the Wallabies match. It sounded, typically, like the centres were a problem.

[2puO4Rhf]

And if any of the ABs are feeling homesick, they can play pool matches in Fiji, Samoa or anywhere else in the North Auckland area.

[JohnMaltczevitch]

Originally posted by Havak
You did – but I’m not familiar with the current capacity of any Kiwi grounds so could you please fill me in?
Eden Park is 53 000. The House of Pain is 38,000. The Cake Tin is 34,500. Waikato Stadium (Hamilton) 25 800. Lancaster Park 36 500.

It's true that these will struggle to cope with the numbers, not to mention the hotels, but there are plans to upgrade.

I thought I'd attach the fact sheet for the naysayers:

Rugby World Cup 2011 - New Zealand

1. New Zealand’s promises to the IRB
A tournament for players
• An environment where players can perform at their very best
• Rugby facilities that are excellent and close at hand
• A Tournament based on traditional rugby values

A tournament for visiting fans
• A country that will be welcoming and safe

A tournament for fans at home
• Superb broadcasting coverage

A commercially successful tournament
• Unique partnership between rugby and the Government
• Tournament fee guaranteed
• Conservative budget
• Most commercially successful RWC ever
• Tournament clean stadia requirements met

A showcase event
• A Tournament that runs smoothly and seamlessly
• A Tournament that will be media-friendly
• Stable country and national union

A tournament for Rugby everywhere
• We are the safe option
• We are worthy guardians of Rugby’s jewel in the crown
• Global rugby legacy

2. Key Tournament Details
• 48 matches
• 11 potential venues
• Prime knockout matches at an expanded Eden Park

3. Our Guarantee – IRB Tournament Fee
• New Zealand has guaranteed the IRB Tournament Fee
• Underpinned by a partnership with New Zealand Government
• Joint funding commitment from both partners
• Robust budget

4. Broadcasting opportunity
• Utilises the world’s best rugby broadcasters - wealth of talent and experience
• Superb coverage guaranteed
• Full stadia throughout the Tournament
• Link between teams and fans at home
• Popularity of breakfast TV in Europe proven through RWC 2003 in Australia & 2005 Lions tour in New Zealand

5. Tournament Timing
• Initial proposed timing - September/October
• New Zealand offered IRB total flexibility on tournament timing
• Lions Tour proved June/July is a perfectly acceptable time to run a Tournament in New Zealand

6. Infrastructure
• Tourism is New Zealand’s largest earner of foreign exchange
• New Zealand is ranked globally as a prime tourist destination
• 7% annual growth of visitors to New Zealand
• In the last five years accommodation availability in Auckland has increased by 6,000 beds to a total of 36,000
• Even without RWC 2011 a further 10,000 beds are projected to become available over the next five years
• Full spectrum of accommodation and travel options from 5 and 6 star through to budget.
• Unparallelled visitor experiences available.

7. Clean Stadia
• Recognise this was an issue in 2003
• New Zealand has committed to meet the tournament clean stadia requirements and has done so

8. Venues
• Range of venues from large to mid-sized venues – all dedicated rugby venues.
• Recognised by players, officials, broadcasters and media as superb rugby venues during 2005 Lions Series.
• Expansion and upgrade of some venues possible – enhancement on Bid commitment.

9. Eden Park
• Bid lodged with guaranteed capacity of 53,000 for Eden Park
• New Zealand Bid includes proposal to expand to 60,000 capacity
• This will provide:
- Increased capacity – additional 7,000 seats
- Better facilities for players, officials, media and VIPs
• Commitment to consult with Eden Park Neighbours’ Association