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Old 07-09-2012, 07:26 PM   #1
User-Luser

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Default Fred and Nina Gutierrez update
http://nesaranews.blogspot.com/2012/...-of-fraud.html
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:50 AM   #2
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At this time I don't know what to say at this time.
At this time it LOOKS like a LOT of mud to me.
I AM not saying I like Fred or Nina.
They did give some good info that I did know of at the time I was there.
So do go to setoffdebt.com and see the 7.5.12 and see what THEY have to say..
As I said it looks to be a lot of mud.
My son DID set off 9000$ to the irs so it looks to work!! But time WILL tell will it not??
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:02 AM   #3
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At this time I don't know what to say at this time.
At this time it LOOKS like a LOT of mud to me.
I AM not saying I like Fred or Nina.
They did give some good info that I did know of at the time I was there.
So do go to setoffdebt.com and see the 7.5.12 and see what THEY have to say..
As I said it looks to be a lot of mud.
My son DID set off 9000$ to the irs so it looks to work!! But time WILL tell will it not??
I remember you posting about this and a test of the process. I was thinking of this just the other day. Ok so it will be interesting to see if the set off sticks.

I think with these two people, their process of creating the document has some potential to cause problems. Specifically the use of a cancelled check book, check as a remittance or sight draft. I think that could lead to issues with respect of fraud. And yes this process of EFT they promoted is not their own process. Simply a new label for what is fundamentally the same process as set off. Set off is perfectly legal and used in business all of the time. Set off is usually documented in law/code/statute dealing with bills of exchange. It's just a matter of having some thing to set off against.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:04 AM   #4
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somebody posting from a website that is named nesara anything says disinfo so loud I can't hear anything else.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:06 AM   #5
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Fred's own brother John has set up a website denouncing Fred's activities. www.eftscam.com

An email from Jack and Margy Flynn -

Hi, All,

Important F.Y.I.

This email came to us from John Gutierrez, the eldest son of the family into which Fred Gutierrez was born. John has been in contact with us for a few weeks, now, about what Fred & Nina Gutierrez, along with Kelby Smith, are doing with their seminars and their "setoffdebt.com" website.

Once John learned the extent of the fraud which these three "ministers" are perpetrating in seminars throughout the country, inducing attendees to give "donations" to get "free" help to get rid of their debts, John told us he was horrified, alarmed, outraged and very concerned that his family name is being ruined. He is very upset that Fred and Nina are using "God and family" to deceive people.

John said he is fully intent on stopping Fred, Nina and Kelby from doing this and is seeking complaints in the form of affidavits from anyone who has been deceived by them and their phony "process". To this end, John has just created a website to counter their scam, which you can access by the link included below. He also arranged a conference call on talkshoe with Tad Patterson which took place this past Tuesday night. You can hear the recorded call by going to the talkshoe site.

If you or anyone you know has been victimized by Fred, Nina and Kelby, please check out the website, which has audio and written accounts of real people's bad experiences with them, as well as information which rebuts the false claims made by Fred and shows Kelby Smith to be a longtime scam artist. The link to John's website is below, as well as a link to talkshoe.




Please send this email far and wide, and encourage everyone who may have been duped by these conscienceless people to contact John and to make complaints to the authorities.









Best regards,





Margy and Jack










-----

John's Newly Created Website


www.eftscam.com







http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web...d=46256&cmd=tc


Phone Number:
(724) 444-7444
Call ID: 46256
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:08 AM   #6
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somebody posting from a website that is named nesara anything says disinfo so loud I can't hear anything else.
So, what are your thoughts on the Flynns?

And did you examine the info at the link in the OP?
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:16 AM   #7
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My son DID set off 9000$ to the irs so it looks to work!! But time WILL tell will it not?? The Individuals Representing Satan like any leviathan is slow to start moving, but once it moves is virtually impossible to stop. Yes, time WILL tell. Good luck with that.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:20 AM   #8
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So, what are your thoughts on the Flynns?


And did you examine the info at the link in the OP?
Don't know anything about the flynns and didn't look at much besides the comments, which also didn't speak very highly of the info presented.

Time will tell, it did sound too good to be true, but we know we create money with our signature on a note. What's the difference when we set off debt by signing a check against a dead checkbook account? It sounds like the same thing to me.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:31 AM   #9
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What's the difference when we set off debt by signing a check against a dead checkbook account? The only thing I've ever heard about using a check from a closed account is that it will get one in deep shit. I'd love to hear at least three first hand accounts where this has worked and there've been no repercussions a couple of years downrange.

I have no issue with the notion that we create (what passes for) money with our signature.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:51 AM   #10
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The only thing I do know is our whole system is replete with one lie stacked on top of another lie. Everywhere you look nothing but lies, banking, courts, politics, government.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:54 AM   #11
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The only thing I do know is our whole system is replete with one lie stacked on top of another lie. Everywhere you look nothing but lies, banking, courts, politics, government.
And for good reason, all those areas you mentioned are saturated with card carrying professional liars aka BAR members. Therefore one must be very deliberate when dealing with these snakes.
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:35 AM   #12
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And for good reason, all those areas you mentioned are saturated with card carrying professional liars aka BAR members. Therefore one must be very deliberate when dealing with these snakes.
What you post is FACT!
Look up blacks on close bank accounts!
Then talk to me. Tell then FU!
If you know know not you will be F**ked over.
Facts are Facts...
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:11 AM   #13
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Facts are Facts...
Just what are facts?

fact (n.)
1530s, "action," especially "evil deed," from L. factum If you are questioned "concerning the facts" you are expected to describe "evil deeds". Say anything and you will admit to knowledge of a fact. As an alternaive

Ignorance of fact, is the want of knowledge as to the fact in question....Ignorance of the laws of a foreign government, or of another state; is ignorance of a fact.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:42 PM   #14
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Does anyone here comprehend what these two people are teaching?

From what I grasp:

1. They call an EFT (Electronic Funds Transfer) a form of a check altered/modified into a Payment Order with caveats printed on it.

For example they tell you to title the check form "Payment Order."

2. This modified check form must come from a closed personal checking account.

3. The way this modified check form, which is converted into a payment order, is supposed to work is to entice the creditor to deposit it into the banking system. One of the particular modifications is to put on the back of the form, "not for deposit", "for discharge of debt," and "without recourse."

4. Once the creditor accepts the "payment order" by introducing it into the payment system, it is assumed that they have discharged the debt.

5. Once the remitting bank rejects the "payment order" and it comes back to the creditor they basically have no "recourse" because of their actions.

6. Any action for fraud would be a criminal action, and subject to due process rights. This is where the creditors will get bogged down trying to clean up this mess.

7. Basically a chess game where the debtors use the system the creditors created against them from the basic fraud the monetary system stands on.

I am sure a lot of stupid greedy bastards will be getting into this as flys to sh_t, and end up doing time in prison.
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Old 09-01-2017, 08:54 AM   #15
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Old 09-01-2017, 08:54 AM   #16
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Old 09-15-2017, 02:03 AM   #17
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Old 01-04-2018, 09:38 AM   #19
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Old 01-04-2018, 09:39 AM   #20
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