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Old 07-11-2012, 09:13 PM   #21
tactWeiccaf

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OK I am a noob.

You're basically letting cabbage spoil in water for two weeks at room temperature. This is safe?
Lacto-fermentation is one of the healthiest, safest, and oldest food preparation/preservation methods on the planet. It's been used by pretty much all cultures if you look back far enough. What happened was the pasteurization revolution, which has benefits for longterm food preservation with canning. The problem was people thought this was the absolute solution, and it wasn't. It just makes your food dead. Personally I think there is a conspiracy with the TPTB to keep everything pasteurized since you get so much health benefits from fermented foods. It's literally a food that's a medicine in itself.

This extends to the whole raw milk versus pasteurized milk debate. People get lactose intolerance from drinking pasteurized milk. What people don't know is there's live enzymes in raw milk that are meant to break down lactose, but they are killed off in the pasteurization process. This means that you only get lactose intolerance from pasteurized milk, not raw milk. In fact if you drink raw milk for a while, the lactose breaking down enzymes will train your body to break them down on your own. So if you drink raw milk, you can drink pasteurized milk to no health issues. TPTB actually want to feed you poison when common sense and all the real scientific research consistently proves them wrong. Sorry for my raw milk tangent, but I think it's part of this issue as well.
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:26 PM   #22
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And absolutely no threat of botulism or anything?

(Sorry, too lazy to research, but too interested to stop asking questions)
Botulism comes from dented cans typically. It's been mostly eradicated since most cans these days are designed in a way to minimize the possibility of this. A rule of thumb with botulism is to throw out any cans that are dented since you are at some risk of getting botulism (it's small though.)

Keep in mind you're growing probiotic bacteria with this process, so any bad bacteria will be eaten up by the good ones if you do it properly. Personally I think it's one of the safest food preparation methods I've worked with, and I come from the culinary industry and I'm classically trained (preparing and serving raw seafood is probably the scariest for me.) These food fermentation processes are common in the East, but considered conspiracy theory in the West. The FDA apparently knows more than thousands of years of tradition.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:06 PM   #23
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I am seeing lots of probiotics in my neighborhood CVS. They are not cheap, but take a primary shelving spot. Looks like people are waking up to it.


Have to be careful which cabbages you buy, lots of nitrates in some.
Probiotics is probably the one thing you shouldn't go cheap on!!! From the research I have done and the experience I have had you should get one with many strains and take atleast 80-100 billion units a day. When I do it the way I should I feel so much better. It is obvious on the days I do take them that I feel great compared to the days I don't. Not that I feel bad, just not as good.

Thanks everyone for all the great info in here!
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:17 PM   #24
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Helen and I have found that there is one probiotic advocate which states there are brands that promise 80-100billion beasties a day, but that is only what is claimed to be in them at the point of manufacture.

And the same probiotic advocate states that those enormous numbers are not what actually arrives at the consumer's home when the purchase is completed.

This particular probiotic advocate states there is only one probiotic supplement which guarantees 7,250 billion beasties when it actually arrives in the consumer's hands.

The 7.25B beasties (guaranteed) ones (14 varieties) sport a price tag of $13 dollars per jar of 90 in veggie caps.

The 50B beasties (non-guaranteed) ones (same 13 of 14 varieties tallied above) sport a price tag of $23-39 depending upon vendor purchased from.

I've personally seen them in the health food stores in the 100B beasties PLUS for $60 for 100B ON UP!!!

Yes, both brands mentioned above must be refrigerated until consumed.

Hope this information helps someone.


beefsteak
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:39 PM   #25
Snocioncilm

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Helen and I have found that there is one probiotic advocate which states there are brands that promise 80-100billion beasties a day, but that is only what is claimed to be in them at the point of manufacture.

And the same probiotic advocate states that those enormous numbers are not what actually arrives at the consumer's home when the purchase is completed.

This particular probiotic advocate states there is only one probiotic supplement which guarantees 7,250 billion beasties when it actually arrives in the consumer's hands.

The 7.25B beasties (guaranteed) ones (14 varieties) sport a price tag of $13 dollars per jar of 90 in veggie caps.

The 50B beasties (non-guaranteed) ones (same 13 of 14 varieties tallied above) sport a price tag of $23-39 depending upon vendor purchased from.

I've personally seen them in the health food stores in the 100B beasties PLUS for $60 for 100B ON UP!!!

Yes, both brands mentioned above must be refrigerated until consumed.

Hope this information helps someone.


beefsteak
Do you have a link? Maybe I'm missing something but I'm not sure what brand you are talking about.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:10 AM   #26
PheliarearY

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Osiris,

I didn't know if it is okay to post branded products on here. Helen and I are consumers only, and have no financial interest one way or the other.

PM Sent.


beefsteak
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:12 AM   #27
glasscollector

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Awoke--have you ever heard of kefir? This is another good source of probiotics. It is fermented milk. You get a culture of Kefir, and put it in a gallon of milk, and let it ferment for a few days at room temperature. When it's just right, you strain out the culture and put it in the fridge and start drinking it. No bad bacteria forms. And it takes like watery greek yogurt. This is an excellent source of probiotics.


Hatha
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:23 AM   #28
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I ordered some kimchi from Granny Choe; it will be arriving today.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:43 AM   #29
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I haven't heard of Kefir, Hatha. Thanks for the info. Interesting.


Botulism comes from dented cans typically. It's been mostly eradicated since most cans these days are designed in a way to minimize the possibility of this. A rule of thumb with botulism is to throw out any cans that are dented since you are at some risk of getting botulism (it's small though.)

Keep in mind you're growing probiotic bacteria with this process, so any bad bacteria will be eaten up by the good ones if you do it properly. Personally I think it's one of the safest food preparation methods I've worked with, and I come from the culinary industry and I'm classically trained (preparing and serving raw seafood is probably the scariest for me.) These food fermentation processes are common in the East, but considered conspiracy theory in the West. The FDA apparently knows more than thousands of years of tradition.
Tin cans are not the source of botulism bro. The dent in the can allows for the botulism spores to mature if they are already in there.

Because when you mash it breaks the leaves and some juice comes out, but usually not all. Additional weight gets more of a juice out and also makes the final product softer and actually crunchier, I think (you'll hear a crunch when you eat them).
So after chopping, then mashing, then pressing the cabbage, you basically throw it in a jar with the same juices you just pressed out?

Shit man, I feel like I am still missing something.



When it comes to foods, I am pretty cautious. I might try this sourkraut thing if I feel I really understand it, but the other stuff I am not sure about. I have been inculcated with the thought that everything must remain refridgerated or it will spoil and become a source of nasties that could kill you.
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Old 07-12-2012, 06:42 PM   #30
gSjQEEmq

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Awoke--have you ever heard of kefir? This is another good source of probiotics. It is fermented milk. You get a culture of Kefir, and put it in a gallon of milk, and let it ferment for a few days at room temperature.
I'm buying kefir from local ethnic food store. Excellent stuff.


So after chopping, then mashing, then pressing the cabbage, you basically throw it in a jar with the same juices you just pressed out?

Shit man, I feel like I am still missing something.
Shami Amourae already answered that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauerkraut

Yes, same juices. I use a deep, wide pot (disclaimer : I rarely do it myself now, it is easier to purchase in my local food store). As you cut cabbage, add salt to each batch that you can mash. Mash each batch. mix with carrots and cranberries (optional), add some cumin (optional). Put it in a pot, heavy object on top. It'll start fermenting, you can use Shami's method of letting air out every day or so (poke with a stick). That's it.

It may overflow with juice, so put something underneath the pot, or remove some juice daily.

After it is done, put in air tight container - glass or plastic with a lid, and store in cool place. Because I usually don't have too much of it, I store in a fridge. A cold basement will also work.
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:08 PM   #31
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Just bought a bunch of kimchi from a korean grocery store.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:51 PM   #32
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i have about 4 cases in the cellar right now . i dont make the Sauerkraut i just grow the cabbage and give it to mom she does the hard part . also there nothing better then home can tomato for veg soup and chilli
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Old 07-13-2012, 01:28 AM   #33
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I've seen home-made sour: sauerkraut, tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, water melons.


TheNocturnalEgyptian, I think I've tried kimchi, don't remember what type, there's more variety than cabbage. Let us know if you like it!
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:53 PM   #34
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Just a reminder to get on this if you haven't already. This is miracle food.

Just processed 15lbs yesterday, as this stuff disappears fast in my house.

Consider red cabbage for more phytonutrients.

I bought some raw organic sauerkraut in the store yesterday (ridiculously expensive btw), and it tasted like crap compared to the homemade version. For some reason I'm getting a really nice warm malty aftertaste in mine. Mmmm.

The 1 teaspoon of salt per pound is working out well for me. Unless you want to reweigh, (or you grow your own) keep your receipt, as the weights are printed on it.

edit: Almost forgot Shami has a thread on this as well.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthre...ighlight=lacto
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:36 AM   #35
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An addendum to this thread is to go to the Library and get [or buy like I did] Wild Fermentation by Sandor Katz. It is a wealth of information. I'll send scanned pages for anyone who is low on $$$$ if wanted....
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:52 AM   #36
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I finished my jar of kimchi. When I opened it, it burped at me as the carbonation rose to the top. I ate some on an empty stomache and felt a little drunk for 10 seconds before it passed. Goooood stuff.


I eat Korean Soontofu 1-4 times a month.

You can see the raw kimchi in the top right of the picture.

Red soup, spicy, with egg, vegetables, beef or seafood, and tofu. served with bean sprouts, kimchi, a fried fish, rice, and other various side dishes.





Because of this thread, I have started to look into probiotics more seriously. I am realizing that even with my many good habits, I was and am pretty out of balance. My first trial probiotic just came in the mail yesterday - "Garden of Life Brand Probiotic Formula"

Most restaurants will let you buy professionally made fermented products from them. Any Korean eatery will be proud to sell you a jar of kimchi, for example.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:03 AM   #37
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You can download a copy of Sally Fallon's Nourishing Traditions book here:
http://pdfcast.org/pdf/nourishing-traditions


Also, make sure you're getting the organic cabbage when you shop. It's usually a lot smaller. Personally I prefer the red cabbage over the green cabbage. It seems to hold up more, and have a more robust flavor. I eat it daily, Hell, I just had some a half hour ago. It tastes wonderful.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:27 AM   #38
inve.tment

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Here's another really good source of info:

http://www.nourishingtreasures.com/i...-fermentation/

http://www.nourishingtreasures.com/i...-final-report/

Tons of good practical info there.


Edit: Wow NE..those pics look delicious!
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Old 09-01-2017, 09:35 AM   #39
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