[QQQQQ-Trek]

I wanna create some movies and I'm looking into getting a camera. The problem with most cameras is that they perform like **** in darker areas and that it always looks frigging amateur. Next to that most of the time it's hard to get the data on the PC to edit it. Which camera would be good to make short movies and makes it easy to edit the movies on the PC?

[Keeriewof]

I wanna create some movies and I'm looking into getting a camera. The problem with most cameras is that they perform like **** in darker areas and that it always looks frigging amateur. Next to that most of the time it's hard to get the data on the PC to edit it. Which camera would be good to make short movies and makes it easy to edit the movies on the PC?

The low light thing is more of a high end vs. low end camera. You need to look at some nice semi-pro Sony or Canon ones, something with a good lens. The amateur problem is not the camera, it's the photographer. Most the things people do with cameras are NOT seen in TV/movies. Zooms are rarely used in movies yet are used a lot with amateur filming, most the time the framing is totally off and it's centered more at head level when it should be a lower angle with the head nearing the top 1/3 of the frame, etc. Movement also looks amateur and that came be solved with lots of practice and maybe a homemade steady cam. I suspect people also try to make too long of a shot which involves moving the camera from one person to another or following a person after they turn to walk somewhere rather then grabbing another angle on that person.

The problem with getting them onto your computer is probably more software/windows. I hate to sound like a Mac fan boy but I think iMovie or Final Cut probably would pick up any modern (last 3 or 4 year old) camera right as you connected it to your Mac and let you start importing right away. Maybe look for some Adobe or Avid / Media 100 programs.

[DfrtYhyu]

Most cameras you are going to buy are going to have problems in low light. It's a video problem, not necessarily a camera problem. Most dark scenes in movies are shot on very well lit sound stage sets, and then color graded to be darker in post.

You are also going to need a good fluid head tripod. Most scenes are shot with fancy weighted steady cam rigs or cranes and dollies to minimize shake. And then post work is applied to minimize the shake even further.

Blocking a shot is going to make it look more professional than what type of camera you use.

I use a Panasonic DVX-100b, which shoots at 24p SD resolution. I love it. It's about $3,500.

I use the latest iMovie and do not recommend it. I also do not recommend sinking huge amounts of dough into Final Cut if you have never used it. It's very good, but it's very expensive and while it does a lot, it is not really necessary for most indie/amatuer productions.

I am highly evangelistic to Sony's Vegas products. I love them. They are so fast, and so easy to use, it really doesn't get much better for indie studios like mine to produce quality stuff so easily. It's also much cheaper than buying a Mac+Final Cut Studio 2.

However, if you feel you need Final Cut Studio 2 because of whatever reason, I won't stop you. But it's kind of like using the Space Shuttle to drive to the grocery store for what most people need.

[Erunsenef]

For SD, you want a Panasonic 3CCD mini-dv camcorder. For HD, you want the Canon HV20.

If you have money to burn and want a more professional camcorder, I would recommend the Canon XH A1 though.

iMovie is great if you are a beginner, but of course requires a Mac. You could also try Avid's free editing package (PC and Mac), but probably a bit too complicated for beginners.

[QQQQQ-Trek]

some good advice thx

A friend of mine and I gonna do some short movies, but I do want to be future proof. For that I was thinking of an HD camera, but the professional ones are too expensive. I just hope the sound is still ok and the angles are sufficient. Also I hope that the amount of time you can shoot in HD is decent enough.

[DfrtYhyu]

some good advice thx

A friend of mine and I gonna do some short movies, but I do want to be future proof. For that I was thinking of an HD camera, but the professional ones are too expensive. I just hope the sound is still ok and the angles are sufficient. Also I hope that the amount of time you can shoot in HD is decent enough.

HD Camcorders are not even close to future proof. It's higher resolution, but not as nice of a camera.

The HD recording formats change almost once per year. Software hasn't quite caught up with all of the HDV, HDAVC and other recording formats quite yet. So, don't look at HD as being future proof or an advantage necessarily. A lot of HD Camcorders record right onto a hard disk, which can be a plus or a minus. In my opinion, it's a minus. I like having tapes as backup and getting things off the camera.

As you mentioned, sound is another consideration. With cheaper cameras, you will hear constant buzzing from the tape motor on the camera. You want to make sure your camera can at least take an external mic input, even if it's one of those cheap $100 hot shoe mics. I have one for my Digital 8 and it makes a world of difference.

I think the best cameras now are the miniDV 3CCD cameras. The Canon HV20 is probably the best HD camcorder. And regular DV might not be as cool as HDV, but, you might be able to score a refurb or second hand Canon or something pro-sumer.

You can also always rent equipment. A good option for when you don't want to get stuck owning something that's going to be outdated in a year.

I have seen some awesome work shot with terrible cameras though, so, it's all about knowing how to work with what you have.

[Erunsenef]

HD Camcorders are not even close to future proof. It's higher resolution, but not as nice of a camera.

The HD recording formats change almost once per year. Software hasn't quite caught up with all of the HDV, HDAVC and other recording formats quite yet. So, don't look at HD as being future proof or an advantage necessarily. A lot of HD Camcorders record right onto a hard disk, which can be a plus or a minus. In my opinion, it's a minus. I like having tapes as backup and getting things off the camera.

As you mentioned, sound is another consideration. With cheaper cameras, you will hear constant buzzing from the tape motor on the camera. You want to make sure your camera can at least take an external mic input, even if it's one of those cheap $100 hot shoe mics. I have one for my Digital 8 and it makes a world of difference.

I think the best cameras now are the miniDV 3CCD cameras. The Canon HV20 is probably the best HD camcorder. And regular DV might not be as cool as HDV, but, you might be able to score a refurb or second hand Canon or something pro-sumer.

You can also always rent equipment. A good option for when you don't want to get stuck owning something that's going to be outdated in a year.

I have seen some awesome work shot with terrible cameras though, so, it's all about knowing how to work with what you have.

Well the biggest difference between hard disk/optical disk based camcorders and tape based is that the video quality on hard disk/optical ones are noticeably worse than tape (because of the high level of compression used).

[corriffuniee]

For SD, you want a Panasonic 3CCD mini-dv camcorder. For HD, you want the Canon HV20.

My thoughts exactly. As for editing software, it depends where you want to go, if you want advanced colourisation/layering/sampling package you will be paying big bucks, but most of the time the features that come with most DVD authoring apps are adequate (occasionally surprisingly good).

[egexgfczc]

I know very little but if I was looking at cams these days I would look closely at the Sony HDR-SR7.

It won the Gadget shows head to head hands down, seems feature rich as well.

AVCHD editing is also available with Sony Vegas 7.0e, Ulead Video Studio 11, and Pinnacle Studio 11 all supporting the new compression.

What do the more knowledgeable guys here think of this Cam?

[Erunsenef]

I know very little but if I was looking at cams these days I would look closely at the Sony HDR-SR7.

It won the Gadget shows head to head hands down, seems feature rich as well.

AVCHD editing is also available with Sony Vegas 7.0e, Ulead Video Studio 11, and Pinnacle Studio 11 all supporting the new compression.

What do the more knowledgeable guys here think of this Cam?

As hard disk camcorders go, it's not bad, but not as good as the tape version of that camcorder or the HV20. I was supprised they didn't test any tape ones, because I remember they admitted last time they did a HD camcorder review that tape was better.

[duminyricky]

Just remember when creating the films that most cameras in the consumer range record interlaced frames, and not progressive. So they will not have a very filmic look.

If you want to acheive the filmic look your best (and cheapest) bet would be to try and de-interlace your footage in the editing process. This is a rather inexpensive way of making the films look at a least different from home movies.

Remember to check up on the CCDs of the camera, 3 being ideal. But also remember that if you get a cheap HD camera you will be worse of than getting a good SD camera in tems of future proofing. Mainly becuase the HD camera realm is still evolving.

With your low light problem, it's a combination of the camera you use and the compression format. The HDV format is an example of terrible compression, especially in low-light areas.

For SD, the format you want is DVCAM (which will record on standard DV tapes, albeit; you will get less recording time, but much better quality).

For HD, HDV is entry level so you wont be able to get much betetr on your budget, but don't expect a versatile format. DVCPRO-HD and HDCAM are very good formats for HD but are more expensive.

Avoid HDD and DVD direct cameras, as they tend to compress heavily.

Also, look for features like a manual focus and zoom rings, manual exp, 16:9 framing and perhaps variable frame rate. These little features help give you more control over your shots.

In terms of editing software, if you are using Mac, iMovie is your best bet for budget, with Finalcut of course being the next step, but probably overkill for the moment. In terms of PC, Adobe Premiere Elements is good, but you can also try the Vegas Video suite. I would avoid the Pinnacle DV studio software set, as it has many liminations. Or, even you want to spend $0 on editing software you would always use Windows Movie Maker... on part with iMovie in terms of capabilities, but way off for anything professional, or even pro-sumer.