[OWV9LSxH]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

That's a Daily Mail article on the same subject.

BTW my take on this is that any measured difference in intelligence is likely due to the vastly lower human development which occurs in Africa. If you never have a chance to go to school and become educated then you don't do well on intelligence tests. Watson is a big advocate of genetic determinism though and he's one of the huge figures in the field of biology and genetics so it will be interesting to see what he has to say.

[Zdfjpbth]

Until there's proof for his claims it's racist.

[thierabess]

I'm not aware that Watson is particularly more qualified to make this claim than any reasonably intelligent and well-educated person.

[Avaboormavoro]

I remember a book called "The bell curve" that was already published a couple of years ago which more or less made the same claim
(black americans are less intelligent than white ones)
and of course also got widely criticized ofor this.

[dgdhgjjgj]

It's not racist if it is based on research and studies. If those studies are proper, that's another question, but it still isn't racist if it is based on that stuff, even if it's wrong.

Also, even if it is true, so what? Does it mean we suddenly get to be more racist? No. It's not an excuse. Some people will use it as their tool for racism, however, even if studies would show that black people are not as intelligent as whities, so what? If there is no remarkable difference, it doesn't make much of a difference anyway.

In the pursuit of truth, opinion shouldn't matter. If it's a fact, it's a fact. YOu do what you want to do with it. Would it be racist to study and state that Asians are smarter than whites, or anyone else for that matter? Or is it just that blacks wouldn't be as smart as white people. It's like the positive stereotypes, where Asians are better at math. Somehow we encourage positive stereotypes, but when it comes to negative ones, it's racism. No, I mean either both are racist or neither of them are. When based on studies, it can't be racist. Motives behind studies might be racist, but then again they might not be, even then if the study is proper, it doesn't matter what the ulterior motive was.

Why people even care about this issue? People get fired up OOOH RACISTISA CIST AIST CAN*T BE TRUE! The other side is I KNEW IT! I KNEW THEY WERE IDIOTS AND I WAS RIGHT IN ALL OF MY OPINIONS.

To me, it doesn't matter. It definitely doesn't mean I am more intelligent than some black guy. As masses, there's BOUND to be some differencies, maybe they are miniscule, and most of them can be explained by other reasons like social opportunity, education, wealth etc. So in this sense, whites should be doing pretty good anyway.

So, why don't you racists and hippies just join hands and jump off from the cliff or fight each other, the rest of us don't care if some race is seen better or worse at some things, it doesn't show anyway and doesn't mean individuals would be better or worse. ONly racists have a problem with it because they're idiots, and hippies have a problem with this because they're PC fundamentalists, ruining the rest of the world that racists left untouched in their rampage of ruining things.

[Patamuta]

Ecthy, it might be the wrong question. LIke I said, even if the studies are wrong in a way that they would represent it like you said, a western notion of what intelligence is and how you measure it, facts are still facts. I also said that the results are what should be expected, because of the social situation, wealth and education among the whities, and the fact that these are often measured with the white society standards, what those societies hold high and train for. It's like a skiing competition, where Austrian athletes would compete against sub-saharan people. Of course the Austrians would win it.

Of course it is only fair to recognize what these tests measure and what they don't measure. It's still not racist. It might be, at the most, a meaningless result.

That's what I said as well, I don't think the result really matters. THere's no remarkable differencies, I mean if they were, we'd notice it pretty much in our everyday life.

AND if someone can measure the physical capacity and it turns out to be a fact, it still doesn't mean it's racist. I'm not so much asking questions as I'm just stating that people are getting their panties on a twist once again. EVEN if the physical capacity was measured and it was clear that whities have better capacity than blacks, there would still be the same people crying it's racist and not true, even if it was scientifically valid and shown and proven.

This is because they have no regard for science. Just like religious fundamentalists. The PC fundamentalists in my mind are about or just as bad as racists.

[shihoodiacarf]

I see what he is saying in terms of evolution, you can't have geographically seperated populations and expect then to develope along the same lines. However, I would say the time frame we are talking about in evolutionary terms is not long enough to make any real difference.

In any case so what? Its not like we give all 12 year olds an IQ test and divided into Alphas/Betas/Deltas/Gammas, we treat everyone the same as far as civil interaction. We don't deal with people as races anymore (for the most part), but as individuals.

[blogwado]

Originally posted by Pekka
It's not racist if it is based on research and studies. Scientific Racism

[Abarricoss]

I'll support you Pekka.

[Nashhlkq]

Disclaimer: I am not a scientist or researcher. My comments are from a layman's perspective.

We know gentics plays a huge role in determining the structure and abilities of our bodies. I don't have a hard time thinking our brain power might also be in that category (our heads are also physical). Indeed, genetic causes for some types of "mental illness" and abnormalities are suspected.

I do realise and understand the problems inherent in "measuring" and "evaluating" this issue with factors such as culture and education thrown into the mix. I don't think we should stop studying an issue b/c it is difficult.

Is this particular scientist a racist? I haven't a clue and don't really care. It is interesting to see the voices opposed to such inquiries and wonder what they are afraid of? Is it racist scientists or research that conflicts uncomfortably with preconcieved notions?

[delnisfernan]

Originally posted by Patroklos
I see what he is saying in terms of evolution, you can't have geographically seperated populations and expect then to develope along the same lines. However, I would say the time frame we are talking about in evolutionary terms is not long enough to make any real difference. How long do you think would be long enough?

In any case so what? Its not like we give all 12 year olds an IQ test and divided into Alphas/Betas/Deltas/Gammas, we treat everyone the same as far as civil interaction. We don't deal with people as races anymore (for the most part), but as individuals. Actually, we do deal with people as races, but who cares if group averages are different? That shouldn't matter to any individual who isn't overly racially chauvinistic...and it's not like there's any proof that the averages are the same.

[Slchtjgb]

Originally posted by Wezil
Is this particular scientist a racist? I haven't a clue and don't really care. Of course he's racist. Why wouldn't you have a clue about that?
It is interesting to see the voices opposed to such inquiries and wonder what they are afraid of? Is it racist scientists or research that conflicts uncomfortably with preconcieved notions? We are afraid of racism.

[rhybrisee]

Originally posted by Wezil
Disclaimer: I am not a scientist or researcher. My comments are from a layman's perspective.

We know gentics plays a huge role in determining the structure and abilities of our bodies. I don't have a hard time thinking our brain power might also be in that category (our heads are also physical). Indeed, genetic causes for some types of "mental illness" and abnormalities are suspected.

I do realise and understand the problems inherent in "measuring" and "evaluating" this issue with factors such as culture and education thrown into the mix. I don't think we should stop studying an issue b/c it is difficult.

Is this particular scientist a racist? I haven't a clue and don't really care. It is interesting to see the voices opposed to such inquiries and wonder what they are afraid of? Is it racist scientists or research that conflicts uncomfortably with preconcieved notions? A bit of both I'd say. There's no denying that some scientists have used questionable research to make sweeping racial conclusions, but on the other hand you have the "anti-racists" whose self-righteous hysteria rivals that of the most ardent religionist.

[nuncEtedben]

I like all people (except the Dutch of course) so I am not concerned with what they may find. I'm sure any differences would be minor and as I said, I'll treat people as they deserve to be treated regardless.

[qp0yfHOf]

Originally posted by Kidicious

Of course he's racist. Why wouldn't you have a clue about that?


We are afraid of racism. Let's stamp it out through political witch-hunts and suppression of free speech!

[UriyVlasov]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Fine, but what is the purpose of this type of research? Personally, I'm hoping the results will put an end to racial preferences.

[Kneefrenolf]

Originally posted by Caligastia


Personally, I'm hoping the results will put an end to racial preferences. Not likely. There's no scientific discovery that can do that. If you have a racial preference that has nothing to do with science, unless you want to call psychology a science.

[77rexulceme]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I said nothing about preventing this research. I'm just saying that those who choose to fund it and do it are racists. There might be some value to it if some discovery is made from it. You don't think that accusing people who research this "racists" prevents anything?

[bs44MhUW]

Originally posted by Caligastia
You don't think that accusing people who research this "racists" prevents anything? No it doesn't prevent it. There has been more than enough of this type of research done as far as I'm concerned. I don't think much has been prevented.

[AgindyMinnife]

Originally posted by Ecthy
Wrong questions, Pekka. The very western notion of "intelligence" is what's bullshit. Human cognitive abilities grow in a social environment, so it is impossible to even compare the "intelligence" of 2 people from markedly different social environments. Our perception of the IQ is mostly based on a mathematical-logical set of cognitive abilities. I'd be surprised if someone told me that a) black African societies or b) black minority groups in any white-dominated societies had the same socio-cultural background manifested in their education as whites did. So while they might respond as "less intelligent" according to the tests, it says nothing about their physical capacity (edit: to intelligence, as defined by their brain design). Alternatively, our metrics could be perfectly fine, and different social conditions have a significant effect on IQ.