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Old 10-10-2006, 07:33 PM   #1
Nafheense

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Default War elephants.
The mice brigades.
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Old 10-10-2006, 07:40 PM   #2
xgnuwdd

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http://www.asimovs.com/_issue_0202/e...tsneptune.html
by the way is an amusing story
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Old 10-10-2006, 07:54 PM   #3
LarryG1978

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Originally posted by Spec
Were they that useful? I went to have a looksy on Wiki, but it seems that even though they were intimidating, they never really won a war. Am I right? And how did they kill them or scare them. On wiki they say alexander and the romans had found a way to deal with them...what was it? Flaming pigs?

Spec. The Romans

A reportedly effective anti-elephant weapon was the pig. Pliny the Elder reported that "elephants are scared by the smallest squeal of a pig" (VIII, 1.27). A siege of Megara was reportedly broken when the Megarians poured oil on a herd of pigs, set them alight, and drove them towards the enemy's massed war elephants. The elephants bolted in terror from the flaming squealing pigs.
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Old 10-10-2006, 08:05 PM   #4
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I'd think the transportation aspect of a War Elephant would be the most compeling reason to use them. Especially in a jungle where they would be able to plow through the brush, instead of having to clear as you go.
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Old 10-10-2006, 08:26 PM   #5
VUzgOhgv

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Elephants were never that useful except as a psychological warfare tactics (but they were often good at that).

Alexander the great had two-man teams with one big strong guy with a sledgehammer and one with a huge shield. The guy with the sledgehammer would wack the elephant's toes...
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Old 10-10-2006, 08:44 PM   #6
Ingeborga

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Originally posted by BeBro
The wiki thing mentions Caesar equipping some troops with axes to injure the elephant's legs and that troops were trained to let them pass so that they couldn't do much damage. One method used IIRC by Roman at Zama was also to make lots of noises with their war trumpets to confuse the elephants and possibly to drive them back against their own forces.

Back in school my history teacher told me that those elephants were often "stimulated" with drug-like stuff to be more agressive in battle, but that also became sometimes a problem when they went out of control and attacked their own troops. He also said as a last resort in such a case the rider then would drive a wedge through the elephant's head to kill him when he was uncontrollable (never checked that, but sounded ok back then). Hm,
AFAIk at Zama the roman tactic was the thing you mentioned in your first sentence,
i.e. the romans had their cohorts spaced out so that the troops could step aside when the Elephants started their charge
and then just attack them from the sides where the Elephants could do no harm.
(AFAIK the main use of Elephants was in charge; as most armies consisted of large ranks of cohorts which normally weren´t very maneuverable Elephants charging the enemy lines could wkread havoc on the enemy troops [which, as you mentioned, also had an psychological impact, but it was very difficulty to alter the direction of the elephants when their charge had begun)
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Old 10-10-2006, 09:18 PM   #7
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Should I declare my interest?
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Old 10-10-2006, 11:16 PM   #8
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Getting a squad of war elephants or two is a must when playing "Rome Total War". A balanced and well used combination of elephants, some heavy infantry, a bunch of archers and some heavy artillery can defeat much bigger armies than your own.

(Now where is my 1+?)
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Old 10-11-2006, 12:02 AM   #9
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I've won many civ2 wars with elephants
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Old 10-11-2006, 08:25 AM   #10
NanoKakadze

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horses were terrified of elephants
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:26 AM   #11
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Transport sounds dubious to me, an elephant would need a wider path then a horse and elephants being large are proportionaly weaker (for the same enginering reasons that an ant can lift 100's of times its own weight). Add in the huge quantities of food and I'm fairly shure they are a big impediment to an army.

Shock value was ofcorse huge, from what I've heard the elephants were driven forward to trample and disrupt the enemy infantry formation, then your own infantry could mop up the disorganized troops. Romans countered this by simply opening up lanes in their formations. The elephant could not be controled to the point of making int trample men when their was a path of lesser resistance avalible to it. So they go right down the lane and cant be turned around. Romans did this in the battle of Zama (sp?) ware Hanibal was decisivly defeated by scipio Africanas.

If I had been Hanibal and for forsight of the roman tactics my counter would be to group the elephants in pairs and connect them with a heavy Iron chain about as long as the roman units were wide. As the elphants advance the chain sweeps along about a foot off the ground knocking, tripping up and otherwise disorganizing their ranks. Oh and the chain has sharpened blades and barbed wire like spikes on it as well.
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:35 AM   #12
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Well if its just dipped in oil then its would probaly burn off too fast and run out before contact with the enemy. Rather I would equip some of the Elephants with thouse little forts on their backs filled will Maltoph coctails and guys pitching them off the sides into the middle of the roman formations.
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Old 10-11-2006, 11:22 AM   #13
BoarmomorurrY

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or the civ4 forum.

Makes me think war elephants are rated too high in games such as civ3 and civ4. But if you make them weaker, there is no reason to build them.
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Old 10-11-2006, 01:47 PM   #14
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I like the way that War Elephants in civ 4 require the ivory resource. Do you regenerate them from a tusk?
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Old 10-11-2006, 02:23 PM   #15
ServiceColas

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Originally posted by Japher
I'd think the transportation aspect of a War Elephant would be the most compeling reason to use them. Especially in a jungle where they would be able to plow through the brush, instead of having to clear as you go. Sure you're not thinking of Oliphaunts?
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Old 10-11-2006, 03:59 PM   #16
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While looking for evidence as to whether elephants actually carried cannon in battle during the medieval era (a discussion on TW.org), I ran across a number of online historical works that suggested that elephants were extremely effective in war. Camels were also effective as an anti cav force (there was a quote by some Pharoah or other to 12 camels turning the tide of battle).

According to the Roman historians, pigs were used to counter elephants. It was believed, though, that it was the pigs squealing that unsettled the elephants, setting the pigs aflame merely caused more squealing.
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Old 10-11-2006, 05:25 PM   #17
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They also covered them with armour (including the trunk), mounted various catapults, ballistae, and (possibly) small cannon on their backs, and employed greek fire (its unclear whether this was in conjunction with the catapults etc or simply thrown). The roman accounts mention elephants being used to knock down wooden palisades around settlements.
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Old 10-11-2006, 06:12 PM   #18
juidizHusw

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Here is a better pic.



Spec.
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Old 10-11-2006, 06:43 PM   #19
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Originally posted by Spec
Here is a better pic.
Nope, very bad contrast and brightness.
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