LOGO
General Discussion Undecided where to post - do it here.

Reply to Thread New Thread
Old 08-31-2012, 01:45 PM   #1
12Jasoumemoobia

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
366
Senior Member
Default Texas Students required to wear RFID Name Tags in two San Antonio Schools
NISD Student Locater

In the name of safety?! Discuss
12Jasoumemoobia is offline


Old 08-31-2012, 04:39 PM   #2
Enliseell

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
441
Senior Member
Default
Sounds like an Infowars news story, but this ones gone mainstream so people believe it. It's an invasion of privacy and also if it was me, i'd feel degraded. Turning a school into a prison is not good. Also pretty sure the tag will be transmitting after school hours as well.
Enliseell is offline


Old 08-31-2012, 07:49 PM   #3
FelixQY

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
601
Senior Member
Default
I personally don't have a problem with the system. As long as it is used the way they say it's supposed to be used.

Of course there are going to be a bunch of people wearing tin hats who are going to over-blow the situation into something it's not.
FelixQY is offline


Old 08-31-2012, 09:09 PM   #4
BadbarmrapBef

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
514
Senior Member
Default
Let's see what the forefather's think about this one:

Jefferson:
"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."

Franklin:
"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."

Paine:
"It is important that we should never lose sight of this distinction. We must not confuse the peoples with their governments..."
BadbarmrapBef is offline


Old 08-31-2012, 09:18 PM   #5
CtEkM8Vq

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
531
Senior Member
Default
They're high school and middle school students. They don't have any rights anyways, they're barely even people.
CtEkM8Vq is offline


Old 08-31-2012, 09:59 PM   #6
giftplas

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
390
Senior Member
Default
I think it's a good idea, but it has flaws.

This allows the school to know where all students are at all times. That's assuming they don't take it off. If someone is going to leave the building they'll just leave their tag in a classroom, go do their thing, then come back for it.

Some people might argue that they can use it for things like bullying. Someone claims they were bullied, data shows those two students did meet up together at whatever time, and they'll consider that proof of the meeting if the bully tries to say they haven't seen that person all day.

I also see it being used for pranks. Steal someone's tag, go meet up with an accomplice, return the tag, then have that person accuse whoever's tag the prankster is wearing of theft. I'm sure other similar pranks will happen. And I'm also fairly sure that the victim won't be believed by the school because "the computer says..."

As for privacy I see no issue. They're at school. At work I have an RFID personal ID tag to get into the building that must be worn visibly at all times. As long as they don't attempt to monitor people outside of the building it's fine. They have a right to take reasonable measures to ensure the safety of the students when they're in the building. When it isn't fine is tracking at home, like that one instance of school loaned laptops where the school spied on a student.
giftplas is offline


Old 08-31-2012, 10:07 PM   #7
Aafimoq

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
420
Senior Member
Default
Let's see what the forefather's think about this one:

Jefferson:
"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."
http://www.monticello.org/site/jeffe...ment-quotation

Please do NOT put words in the mouth of my favorite founding father. Thanks.

Paine:
"It is important that we should never lose sight of this distinction. We must not confuse the peoples with their governments..." Paine was referring to English government and the ancien regime in France. In a democracy, the people are the government. This anti-government bullcrap is a modern invention.
Aafimoq is offline


Old 08-31-2012, 10:12 PM   #8
teentodiefows

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
558
Senior Member
Default
I think it's a good idea, but it has flaws.

This allows the school to know where all students are at all times. That's assuming they don't take it off. If someone is going to leave the building they'll just leave their tag in a classroom, go do their thing, then come back for it.

Some people might argue that they can use it for things like bullying. Someone claims they were bullied, data shows those two students did meet up together at whatever time, and they'll consider that proof of the meeting if the bully tries to say they haven't seen that person all day.

I also see it being used for pranks. Steal someone's tag, go meet up with an accomplice, return the tag, then have that person accuse whoever's tag the prankster is wearing of theft. I'm sure other similar pranks will happen. And I'm also fairly sure that the victim won't be believed by the school because "the computer says..."

As for privacy I see no issue. They're at school. At work I have an RFID personal ID tag to get into the building that must be worn visibly at all times. As long as they don't attempt to monitor people outside of the building it's fine. They have a right to take reasonable measures to ensure the safety of the students when they're in the building. When it isn't fine is tracking at home, like that one instance of school loaned laptops where the school spied on a student.
There is a difference between your RFID tag and the tags they are planning on implementing here. Your's is a card access control system. It works in place of giving people physical keys. The system the school is planning on implementing would track the students whereabouts at all times.

I'm with the father on this one, and if I had a child and a school decided to implement this I would tell my kid not to wear it, and I would also file a complaint against the school.

Also, as far as using it as attendance? So you have a group of friends who are in classes together. Your friends pass the card to each person next in line who has a class with you. The record then shows that you attended ALL of your classes. Teachers will still be required to take attendance because of this. No work is saved, the system can be fooled.

This is nothing more than a revenue stream and a invasion of privacy, the system has too many flaws to justify the expense of using it.
teentodiefows is offline


Old 08-31-2012, 10:12 PM   #9
PilotJargon

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
344
Senior Member
Default
Let's see what the forefather's think about this one:

Jefferson:
"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."


Paine:
"It is important that we should never lose sight of this distinction. We must not confuse the peoples with their governments..."
Makes them sound like Ayn Rand.
PilotJargon is offline


Old 08-31-2012, 10:26 PM   #10
tarmpriopay

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
728
Senior Member
Default
http://www.monticello.org/site/jeffe...ment-quotation

Please do NOT put words in the mouth of my favorite founding father. Thanks.
Interesting. My apologies! That was one of my favorite "Jefferson" quotes.

Makes them sound like Ayn Rand.
Can you draw me a picture explaining that one?
tarmpriopay is offline


Old 08-31-2012, 10:53 PM   #11
emuffette

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
491
Senior Member
Default
“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.”
“Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.”
“He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.”
[Citations Needed]
emuffette is offline


Old 08-31-2012, 11:21 PM   #12
asharbiq

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
558
Senior Member
Default
[Citations Needed]
  1. Not sure about the first, but it is ubiquitously credited to him, T-Shirts, bumpers stickers, etc. I know that that does not make it fact, but that is my source.
  2. The second is from Common Sense
  3. The third is from Dissertation On First Principles Of Government
asharbiq is offline


Old 08-31-2012, 11:23 PM   #13
SHpuntik

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
608
Senior Member
Default
Can you draw me a picture explaining that one?
Allow me to retract that, I really threw it out there.
SHpuntik is offline


Old 08-31-2012, 11:24 PM   #14
PrettyFifa12

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
444
Senior Member
Default
Allow me to retract that, I really threw it out there.
Granted.
PrettyFifa12 is offline


Old 08-31-2012, 11:32 PM   #15
autoloanexpert

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
526
Senior Member
Default
The system the school is planning on implementing would track the students whereabouts at all times.
All RFID devices can be used for that purpose.

This is nothing more than a revenue stream and a invasion of privacy, the system has too many flaws to justify the expense of using it. While I disagree with you on other points and I think it could potentially be good the flaws make it pointless and a waste of money. Trouble makers will find ways around it or ways to make it work in their favor. Geeky trouble makers will start cloning IDs.


While I'm a very strong proponent of privacy I believe that when you enter someone else's business, etc. they have a right to make reasonable demands. In the case of students they're responsible for what happens to them. Until we absolve them of that responsibility they have a right, and a duty, to take security precautions.
autoloanexpert is offline


Old 09-01-2012, 12:09 AM   #16
Finkevannon

Join Date
Nov 2005
Posts
461
Senior Member
Default
Double post.
Finkevannon is offline


Old 09-01-2012, 12:11 AM   #17
AncewwewBus

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
468
Senior Member
Default
  1. Not sure about the first, but it is ubiquitously credited to him, T-Shirts, bumpers stickers, etc. I know that that does not make it fact, but that is my source.
  2. The second is from Common Sense
  3. The third is from Dissertation On First Principles Of Government
1. So basically, it's made-up right-wing bullshit.

2. Again, he's speaking about a very narrow kind of government: monarchies. In case you missed that point, here's Paine's views on government expanded later in the same chapter:

I draw my idea of the form of government from a principle in nature which no art can overturn, viz. that the more simple any thing is, the less liable it is to be disordered, and the easier repaired when disordered; and with this maxim in view I offer a few remarks on the so much boasted constitution of England. That it was noble for the dark and slavish times in which it was erected, is granted. When the world was overrun with tyranny the least remove therefrom was a glorious rescue. But that it is imperfect, subject to convulsions, and incapable of producing what it seems to promise is easily demonstrated.


Absolute governments, (tho' the disgrace of human nature) have this advantage with them, they are simple; if the people suffer, they know the head from which their suffering springs; know likewise the remedy; and are not bewildered by a variety of causes and cures. But the constitution of England is so exceedingly complex, that the nation may suffer for years together without being able to discover in which part the fault lies; some will say in one and some in another, and every political physician will advise a different medicine.


I know it is difficult to get over local or long standing prejudices, yet if we will suffer ourselves to examine the component parts of the English Constitution, we shall find them to be the base remains of two ancient tyrannies, compounded with some new Republican materials.


First. — The remains of Monarchical tyranny in the person of the King.
Secondly. — The remains of Aristocratical tyranny in the persons of the Peers.

...
There is something exceedingly ridiculous in the composition of Monarchy; it first excludes a man from the means of information, yet empowers him to act in cases where the highest judgment is required. The state of a king shuts him from the World, yet the business of a king requires him to know it thoroughly; wherefore the different parts, by unnaturally opposing and destroying each other, prove the whole character to be absurd and useless.'

...


That the crown is this overbearing part in the English constitution needs not be mentioned, and that it derives its whole consequence merely from being the giver of places and pensions is self-evident; wherefore, though we have been wise enough to shut and lock a door against absolute Monarchy, we at the same time have been foolish enough to put the Crown in possession of the key.


The prejudice of Englishmen, in favour of their own government, by King, Lords and Commons, arises as much or more from national pride than reason. Individuals are undoubtedly safer in England than in some other countries: but the will of the king is as much the law of the land in Britain as in France, with this difference, that instead of proceeding directly from his mouth, it is handed to the people under the formidable shape of an act of parliament. For the fate of Charles the First hath only made kings more subtle — not more just.
Government is a necessary evil because as the population increases it requires laws to maintain order in society. In making laws, even the best laws, freedoms are curtailed. It becomes an intolerable one when the powers of state are invested in a single ruler, a tyrant or monarch. That's what he's saying in that quote. He's not saying the federal government has no business levying taxes and spending public funds on healthcare, food stamps, pensions, etc.

Paine was a socialist:

To create a national fund, out of which there shall be paid to every person, when arrived at the age of twenty-one years, the sum of fifteen pounds sterling, as a compensation in part, for the loss of his or her natural inheritance, by the introduction of the system of landed property:


And also, the sum of ten pounds per annum, during life, to every person now living, of the age of fifty years, and to all others as they shall arrive at that age.
-Agrarian Justice


3. I have no problem with this quote.
AncewwewBus is offline


Old 09-01-2012, 12:33 AM   #18
sabbixsweraco

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
486
Senior Member
Default
I personally don't have a problem with the system. As long as it is used the way they say it's supposed to be used.

Of course there are going to be a bunch of people wearing tin hats who are going to over-blow the situation into something it's not.
I realise it's not the end of the world, but you have to wonder where it will end. Is it then beginning of something more or something else? And if kids grow up under a system like this, they'l be accepting of similar control when as they grow up. Just wait and see I suppose.
sabbixsweraco is offline


Old 09-01-2012, 01:17 AM   #19
cabonuserollyo

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
508
Senior Member
Default
I realise it's not the end of the world, but you have to wonder where it will end. Is it then beginning of something more or something else? And if kids grow up under a system like this, they'l be accepting of similar control when as they grow up. Just wait and see I suppose.
Truthfully, this is not the worst thing to be put into schools. There are schools with camera systems that allow parents to log in and see their kids during school hours. Personally, I would find that system far more intrusive on privacy than some tag that tells the school if the kid is present and where the kid is within the school's property.
cabonuserollyo is offline


Old 09-01-2012, 09:16 AM   #20
AnypecekceS

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
554
Senior Member
Default
Allow me to retract that, I really threw it out there.
No. Don't back down. You had him by the balls. Will doesn't even know who Ayn Rand is.

Here's what our most respected forefather had to say on the matter:

"William Perdikakis is a lying, sorry sack of sh*t." - Thomas Jefferson, 1805, Letter to Abigail C. Durrow, Richmond, Virginia
AnypecekceS is offline



Reply to Thread New Thread

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:00 AM.
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Design & Developed by Amodity.com
Copyright© Amodity