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Old 05-20-2012, 02:57 AM   #1
Nundduedola

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Default Is Islamic university of Medina a sunni university ?
Assalaamu alaikum,

With the courses they teach can it be categorized as Sunni ? Is their syllabus Sunni in any sense ?
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:53 AM   #2
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Assalaamu alaikum,

With the courses they teach can it be categorized as Sunni ? Is their syllabus Sunni in any sense ?
Which courses do they teach exactly that have you doubting the Sunnitism of it?
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Old 05-20-2012, 04:06 AM   #3
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Wa alaykum salaam

It is a Sunni university.

A good friend of mine is a student there if you have any questions or doubts regarding the institute then I can request him to get them clarified if necessary.
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Old 05-20-2012, 05:39 AM   #4
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Assalaamu alaikum,

With the courses they teach can it be categorized as Sunni ? Is their syllabus Sunni in any sense ?
Walaikum Salam,

Strange people I see these days.

So what do you think the University is? Shia/Rafizi or Ahmadi/Qadiani?
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Old 05-20-2012, 05:48 AM   #5
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, yes the Islamic University of Madeenah is sunni, there arent any major shia Universities in saudi, least of all in madeenah as far as I know
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:47 AM   #6
Nundduedola

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Is Sunni defined with shiasm as its opposite? By sunni I meant as a whole,I.e., ahlus sunnah wal jamaah. I still see that some prefer to let wahhabism pass the radar and be categorised as being just another Sunni madhab. I'm fine with presuming those who atleast openly ascribe themselves to hanbali madhab and teach its books, as being sunni. But is that what they are taught to be ? Does Madina University teach students to become pure hanbalis ? The best way to analyse is to see what their university produces. Is the courses they provide and graduates they produce Sunni? I'm sure there maybe plenty of wahabis who later opened up and started to tolerate the traditional Sunni community. But what matters is what the university continues to produce.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:19 AM   #7
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One of the best Idiotic + Rubbish question [Title Question] i have seen in this forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 05-20-2012, 10:26 AM   #8
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One of the best Idiotic + Rubbish question i have seen in this forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!

are you sure you have taken all your posts and threads into consideration before reaching this conclusion??
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:29 AM   #9
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Assalaamu alaikum,

With the courses they teach can it be categorized as Sunni ? Is their syllabus Sunni in any sense ?
It is a wahabi university, go there for wahabi brainwashing.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:32 AM   #10
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are you sure you have taken all your posts and threads into consideration before reaching this conclusion??
U forgot to copy & paste "Title Question" from my post. Plz make sure ur keyboard is working properly.
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Old 05-20-2012, 02:10 PM   #11
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Is Sunni defined with shiasm as its opposite? By sunni I meant as a whole,I.e., ahlus sunnah wal jamaah. I still see that some prefer to let wahhabism pass the radar and be categorised as being just another Sunni madhab.
Wahhabis since the time of Ibn Abd Al-Wahhab have BEEN Hanbalis, so I'm not too sure how it being a Wahhabi university makes it any less Sunni than any other Madhabs University.

However, if anything one can argue that they are not Wahhabi and thus not Hanbali, but I think you don't have enough knowledge of the University to come to that conclusion.


I'm fine with presuming those who atleast openly ascribe themselves to hanbali madhab and teach its books, as being sunni. But is that what they are taught to be ? Those would be the Wahhabis that you previously said are passing under the radar, why the contradictions?

Does Madina University teach students to become pure hanbalis ? The best way to analyse is to see what their university produces. Is the courses they provide and graduates they produce Sunni? Is a person outside of Ahlul Sunnah for not strictly following one of the four Madhabs, perhaps he takes from some of them , or follows a different method of fiqh while still following the scholars of Ahlul Sunnah, does this make him OUTSIDE of Ahlul Sunnah? If it does, please bring the proof. If it doesn't then you are saying it's not a Sunni Uni. based upon it's Aqeedah, which you are free to think, right?

I'm sure there maybe plenty of wahabis who later opened up and started to tolerate the traditional Sunni community. But what matters is what the university continues to produce. You're using Wahhabi in the wrong way, Wahhabis have always been Hanbalis (like I said) and Hanbalis have always been Sunnis, now whether or not Medina is truly "Wahhabi" or not depends on two things, fiqh/aqeedah. however, the fiqh taught at Medina U. is not strictly Hanbali, as far as I know they generally study بداية المجتهد ونهاية المقتصد so are they considered "Sunnis" or not?
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Old 05-20-2012, 02:11 PM   #12
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Wahhabis since the time of Ibn Abd Al-Wahhab have BEEN Hanbalis, so I'm not too sure how it being a Wahhabi university makes it any less Sunni than anything other Madhabs University.

However, if anything one can argue that they are not Wahhabi and thus not Hanbali, but I think you don't have enough knowledge of the University to come to that conclusion.




Those would be the Wahhabis that you previously said are passing under the radar, why the contradictions?



Is a person outside of Ahlul Sunnah for not strictly following one of the four Madhabs, perhaps he takes from some of them , or follows a different method of fiqh while still following the scholars of Ahlul Sunnah, does this make him OUTSIDE of Ahlul Sunnah? If it does, please bring the proof. If it doesn't then you are saying it's not a Sunni Uni. based upon it's Aqeedah, which you are free to think, right?



You're using Wahhabi in the wrong way, Wahhabis have always been Hanbalis (like I said) and Hanbalis have always been Sunnis, now whether or not Medina is truly "Wahhabi" or not depends on two things, fiqh/aqeedah. however, the fiqh taught at Medina U. is not strictly Hanbali, as far as I know they generally study بداية المجتهد ونهاية المقتصد so are they considered "Sunnis" or not?
It is 'less sunni' because they teach wahabi aqida.
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:13 PM   #13
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It is 'less sunni' because they teach wahabi aqida.
Okay, but that's not what is understood from the original posters comments, his gripe was not about Aqeedah but about Fiqh. Which is clear from him saying:

I'm fine with presuming those who atleast openly ascribe themselves to hanbali madhab and teach its books, as being sunni. But is that what they are taught to be ? Does Madina University teach students to become pure hanbalis ? If he meant Aqeedah he should clarify himself more, regardless the Wahhabi Creed is the Hanbali (Ibn Qudaama, Ibn Rajab, Safaarini) creed especially in it's Usool, if you mean they are not Hanbali in some branches of Furoo' I guarentee I can find some Hanbalis before ibn Abdul Wahhab who said the same thing he did concerning Tawassul, Visiting the graves, etc etc.
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Old 05-20-2012, 05:45 PM   #14
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Wahhabis since the time of Ibn Abd Al-Wahhab have BEEN Hanbalis, so I'm not too sure how it being a Wahhabi university makes it any less Sunni than any other Madhabs University.
What is taught can make it non-sunni. Yea good and fine that IAW atleast claimed to follow the hanbali madhab in principle. Whether in action he did is another question beyond the scope of this topic.


Is a person outside of Ahlul Sunnah for not strictly following one of the four Madhabs, perhaps he takes from some of them , or follows a different method of fiqh while still following the scholars of Ahlul Sunnah, does this make him OUTSIDE of Ahlul Sunnah? If it does, please bring the proof. If it doesn't then you are saying it's not a Sunni Uni. based upon it's Aqeedah, which you are free to think, right? That would be a 5th innovated madhab and batil by standards of all madhab, since his mixed rituals would be batil according to the rules of the other 4 madhabs. I.e this 5th madhab would not satisfy the conditions of any of the sunni madhabs in totality and his rituals end up being batil or fasiq. This also correspondes to the hadith that makes invalid the worship performed by innovators.

You're using Wahhabi in the wrong way, Wahhabis have always been Hanbalis (like I said) and Hanbalis have always been Sunnis, now whether or not Medina is truly "Wahhabi" or not depends on two things, fiqh/aqeedah. however, the fiqh taught at Medina U. is not strictly Hanbali, as far as I know they generally study بداية المجتهد ونهاية المقتصد so are they considered "Sunnis" or not? Yea sure. Salafi la madhabism had nothing to do with wahhabism. They never established any relationship. All these modernist/reformist groups including the protestant wahabism were not united in finding the basis of their innovation from Ibn Taymiyya. Keep living with the new hanbali morph hoping no one sees the true colors. At the end of the day, my question is very specific to tthe Medina university and whether it can be classified as a Sunni university. So lets leave all that and focus on what this university teaches and what graduates it produces.

What do you mean general study? Your just hiding the non - Sunni character of the university. If they dont teach a madhab then they shouldnt as per Sunni islam have the right to give a fiqh opinion. These graduates instead as we see are the ones busy spreading to different parts of the muslim world as self declared mujtahids starting fitna against every madhab and trying impose their innovated 5th madhab upon the Muslims.
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Old 05-20-2012, 05:58 PM   #15
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Asalaam
Well most of what they follow is the same as the branched out hanbali position from ibn Taymiyyah with some differences from hanbali position that they get from shafis and malikis just because they don't go shouting and screaming saying we blindly follow a madhab does not mean they are not sunni.

In Aqeedah they are athari, though some may appear harsh to non-Athari though the same was with many great scholars from the athari aqeedah and hanbali madhab. I have also heard correct me if Im wrong that in hanbali madhab it is emphasised more to refute falsehood which is why they may appear more vocal
.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:02 PM   #16
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Yea sure. Salafi la madhabism had nothing to do with wahhabism. They never established any relationship. I didn't say they had nothing to do with each other, however what they have to do with eachother is Aqeedah not fiqh, so if you're making a fiqh argument say so, and if you're making an Aqeedah argument say so. At the same time, the Hanbali scholars of Saudi always respected other scholars even if they didn't follow a Madhab (Al-Albani for example). While at the same time the definition of taqleed according to the Hanaabilah is not the same as the other Madhabs, the Maqsad has always and forever will be to follow the truth (Quran and Sunnah) that is why you have hundreds of Hanaabilah who differ with eachother concerning the correct opinion on 1000's of opinions.

All these modernist/reformist groups including the protestant wahabism were not united in find the basis of their innovation from Ibn Taymiyya. Keep living with new morphing hoping no one sees the true colors. I don't know which innovation you're talking about, however there is no differences of opinion concerning Ibn Taymiyyah being a major player in the Hanbali Madhab, as he himself is quoted numerous times in the books of fiqh of the Madhab after his time.



What do you mean general study? Your just hiding the non - Sunni character of the university. I don't study there so I am simply saying that as far as I know they generally study that book, and again I am asking for a clear definition of what makes them not Sunni?

If they dont teach a madhab then they shouldnt as per Sunni islam have the right to give a fiqh opinion. I think this is extremism, and if it's true you have to bring the proof. Yes I agree that one should follow a Madhab, however restricting it to those four Madhab without the possibility of going to other than them from among the opinions of the scholars of other less know Madhahib or even Dhaahiris, or Ahlul hadeeth, is incorrect. However, if you have proof for your statement or an explanation of it from a scholar feel free to post it up.

These graduates instead as we see are the ones busy spreading to different parts of the muslim world as self declared mujtahids starting fitna against every madhab and trying impose their innovated 5th madhab upon the Muslims. We are talking about the school not the graduates, what the graduates do after they finish the school is a whole other question, I'm sure many "madhabist" went to the school graduated and continued on in their MAdhab. But again i ask you, how is following fiqh other than the 4 Madhabs an innovation? If you're using Innovation here in a negative sense, then all four are innovations, if you simply don't want there to be more than four because it doesn't fit into your personal desire for the ummah, your opinion is rejected. I'm sure the majority of the normal population don't care where the opinion comes from as long as they feel good about the answer, I'v had numerous people ask me at the Miqaat simple questions concerning Ihraam, they never asked me my Madhab nor did they ask me if I am from the four Madhahib, they just want to know the truth and follow it.

Restricting people to following anything other than the truth brought to them by a scholar who may or may not be following a Madhab but still has knowledge and is following the Sunni Methodology of understanding is restricting people to things that they were never restricted to doing by Allah or his messenger.

So instead of going back and forth, just bring the proof for why it's obligatory to ONLY follow one of the four madhabs and anyone who doesn't is not from Ahl Sunnah.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:22 PM   #17
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@Abu Zakariya

Your grasping at straws. Yea, 5th madhab born in 18-19th century some how automatically can be sunni just because it says its sunni. I can form a 100 different madhabs too by pic and choose upon whims method. And your sure going to recognise them all as sunni right ? Yea you surely would do. After all this 5th madhab, self labelled sunnis, are the most tolerant of all.

But as I said. Leave that aside and first focus on what the university teaches. Its better rational to do a analysis and conclusion after that. So its pointless to reply and turn the thread into just another bickering round, until we get the facts on the table.
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:00 PM   #18
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Assalaamu alaikum,

With the courses they teach can it be categorized as Sunni ? Is their syllabus Sunni in any sense ?
It depends who you ask....

1. If you ask Ashari/Maturidi/true Athari (Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamah) they will say no they are not Sunni.... Because Ahlus Sunnah in its originally usage related to creed... And majority of the Ulama believe Ibn Taymiyyah have deviated from the path of Ahlus Sunnah

2. If you ask a salafi/wahabi then they will tell you it is sunni... And that Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab and Ibn Taymiyyah represent the true Hanbali creed, thus they are sunni...

Me person I agree with the first group that the university of medinah are not Sunnis... in terms of creeds...... And Allah knows best.
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:06 PM   #19
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It depends who you ask....

1. If you ask Ashari/Maturidi/true Athari (Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamah) they will say no they are not Sunni.... Because Ahlus Sunnah in its originally usage related to creed... And majority of the Ulama believe Ibn Taymiyyah have deviated from the path of Ahlus Sunnah

2. If you ask a salafi/wahabi then they will tell you it is sunni... And that Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab and Ibn Taymiyyah represent the true Hanbali creed, thus they are sunni...

Me person I agree with the first group that the university of medinah are not Sunnis... in terms of creeds...... And Allah knows best.
Their aqeeda positions would be pretty obvious wholly based upon Ibn Taymiyya. What fiqh course they teach would be interesting. A graduate from Medina university would be qualified to be what exactly? What authority would the Medina university certificate give to the person?
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:19 PM   #20
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Their aqeeda positions would be pretty obvious wholly based upon Ibn Taymiyya. What fiqh course they teach would be interesting. A graduate from Medina university would be qualified to be what exactly? What authority would the Medina university certificate give to the person?
My understanding is the university teaching doesn't mean much in the traditional world, whether it is Medinah or Al Azhar... and this is because these universities have a western style of teaching... So if you graduated from Medinah or Al Azhar and decided to go and study at Darul Mustafa in Yemen or Syria with traditional scholars (a traditional system of teaching) you would start at the very beginning.... And I've heard this about graduates from both University of Medinah and Al Azhar University.....

A person with a bachelors from a university knows a lot of little things but doesn't know any one thing really well... And most graduates haven't completely one single text of fiqh... That is the problem....
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