[Dogxzysl]

An old bible was found in Falasteen and it confirms the Quran story as true.

[jstizzle]

seeing you posting youtube links for the first time

Summary of the talk ?

[syncFisee]

Summary of the talk ?

More evidence that the bible has been tampered, Jesus(as) is a man not God, warnings of early christian scholars not to listen to the new movement and to follow tradition etc etc.

[Rounteetepe]

BârakAllahu fîkum, nice.

We should have a christian information thread regrouping good texts and thought-provoking videos like this one.

[2puO4Rhf]

Judas, in our terms, would probably be called a narrow minded Deobandi..

There was a documentary called 'Banned from the Bible'. Although many of the stuff in their probably isn't true, however something are quite interesting. The explanation of the council of Nicea pretty much shows that it was just a 'please everyone' decision with no real substance.

[syncFisee]

Christians are best examples of muslims who did bidah so much that they ceased to be muslims anymore.

[Slonopotam845]

As-Salamu ´Alaykum,

The Didache is believed to have been written anytime before 250 A.D. Most Bible scholars will date it to somewhere around 75 - 125 A.D
It is not an "Old Bible", rather a tract of teachings believed to have been written down by Nabi ´Isa's (´alayhi al-salam) Disciples, or their Followers. While it was not accepted in the Canon, it was counted as writings of the Apostolic Fathers, and while held in high esteem, held a secondary position. Yes, the books of Apostolic Fathers came to hold less and less weight in the Church. While I believe going back to these type of writings is of importance, and that it will give us a clearer and broader picture of early Christendom, I still believe that most Muslims will be disappointed in their findings. I say this after conducting Biblical researches for several years, including examining manuscripts with some of my aquaintences. Either way, the Didache is definitely one of the most interesting non-canonical readings, and it would definitely have potential to be included in the Canon.

wa'Llahu a'lam

[syncFisee]

As-Salamu ´Alaykum,

The Didache is believed to have been written anytime before 250 A.D. Most Bible scholars will date it to somewhere around 75 - 125 A.D
It is not an "Old Bible", rather a tract of teachings believed to have been written down by Nabi ´Isa's (´alayhi al-salam) Disciples, or their Followers. While it was not accepted in the Canon, it was counted as writings of the Apostolic Fathers, and while held in high esteem, held a secondary position. Yes, the books of Apostolic Fathers came to hold less and less weight in the Church. While I believe going back to these type of writings is of importance, and that it will give us a clearer and broader picture of early Christendom, I still believe that most Muslims will be disappointed in their findings. I say this after conducting Biblical researches for several years, including examining manuscripts with some of my aquaintences. Either way, the Didache is definitely one of the most interesting non-canonical readings, and it would definitely have potential to be included in the Canon.

wa'Llahu a'lam

Akhi, is there anything to suggest how the the Injil became corrupted initially. Was it corrupted as soon as the ascension of Isa(as)? Was the original Injil written?

We all know it happened, but is there anything to suggest the period of time?

[Turbo-ip]

I watched this video a long time back, it is very interesting.

I was wondering how some of the true Christians survived even though being in extreme minority, for example the story of Rasulullah when he was young and met a monk who told him he was the Messenger of Allah, and the uncle of Khadijah , Waraqah Ibn Nawfal(?) and Salman al-Farsi who met some of the christian monks, how did this (true) sect of the followers of 'Isa 'Alayhi al-Salaam survive 600 years?

Subhan-Allah when you just think about it, it is extraordinaty how Allah kept some upon the Haqq.

[Slonopotam845]

My beloved brother amr123,

The subject matter is highly complex, and I have yet failed to find any conclusive evidence as to what and how it happenes. As for its relation to this thread, in short, Ignatius and Polycarp seem to have used the Didache, though it's not established. While they were both students of John the Apostle, yet Polycarps student Irenaeus affirmed the Gospel of John to be authentic. It has almost certaintly undergone some editing afterwards. And according to near concensus of modern Biblical scholars, the Gospel of John is the last Gospel to have been written. So it presents itself rather problematic. Allah knows best what and how it came about..

wassalam

[Adfcvkdg]

As-Salamu ´Alaykum,

The Didache is believed to have been written anytime before 250 A.D. Most Bible scholars will date it to somewhere around 75 - 125 A.D
It is not an "Old Bible", rather a tract of teachings believed to have been written down by Nabi ´Isa's (´alayhi al-salam) Disciples, or their Followers. While it was not accepted in the Canon, it was counted as writings of the Apostolic Fathers, and while held in high esteem, held a secondary position. Yes, the books of Apostolic Fathers came to hold less and less weight in the Church. While I believe going back to these type of writings is of importance, and that it will give us a clearer and broader picture of early Christendom, I still believe that most Muslims will be disappointed in their findings. I say this after conducting Biblical researches for several years, including examining manuscripts with some of my aquaintences. Either way, the Didache is definitely one of the most interesting non-canonical readings, and it would definitely have potential to be included in the Canon.

wa'Llahu a'lam

Please let me have a link to the original. What language is it in?

Wassalam

[amberamuletuk]

My beloved brother amr123,

The subject matter is highly complex, and I have yet failed to find any conclusive evidence as to what and how it happenes. As for its relation to this thread, in short, Ignatius and Polycarp seem to have used the Didache, though it's not established. While they were both students of John the Apostle, yet Polycarps student Irenaeus affirmed the Gospel of John to be authentic. It has almost certaintly undergone some editing afterwards. And according to near concensus of modern Biblical scholars, the Gospel of John is the last Gospel to have been written. So it presents itself rather problematic. Allah knows best what and how it came about..

wassalam

Pease,
Would you agree that until the time of Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) the Injeel and Torah were not corrupted. The reason I'm saying this is all the quran verses that ordered the prophet and the Moslems to believe in the njeel and Torah and Quran...

[irrehoobe]

Pease,
Would you agree that until the time of Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) the Injeel and Torah were not corrupted. The reason I'm saying this is all the quran verses that ordered the prophet and the Moslems to believe in the njeel and Torah and Quran...

Peace

The Quran orders us to believe in the Torah and Injeel that WAS REVEALED to Musa and Isa (i.e. the original Books), not the corrupt literature that the Jews and Christians believe to be the Word of God

From what I can tell, there was never an effort to preserve the Injeel (through memorisation) and some of Isa disciples would have written what he spoke down, and such documents were perhaps used as base documents for the Gospels (which weren't written by the disciples, even originally).

[Phassetus]

I just happened upon this same video the other day. It's hard to make any sense of the New Testament, since some of it contradicts other parts of it, and some of it contradicts the OT. It's been changed and edited by different cultures in different languages, but what one does come away with, is that Jesus (pbuh) did not ask people to pray to him, but instead to God (Allah, swt). Granted, the Leper in John 9:38, is noted to have "worshipped" Jesus (pbuh) after he was healed, but it's not like Jesus (pbuh) turned around and said "yes, please continue to do that, all of you". Jesus (pbuh) tells everyone he is the "Son of Man" (perhaps an appropriate title for a prophet), which goes back to the OT. Most of what we think we "know" about Jesus (pbuh) was written by Paul, before the Gospels were even written, although they refer to an earlier (closer to his life) time. They are of course, placed in a different order in the Bible.

The whole Blood-vow, eating of the flesh, all that...it is from elements of Pagan rights, and was incorporated into Christianity, and because of hundreds of innovations, across a wide swath of cultures, in different languages, we know have more than 20,000 denominations world-wide of the so-called "Body of Christ", or "Catholic (meaning universal) Church". Which is clearly not true. The Christian church is a tree, with thousands of limbs, and disorganized branches, of which the "followers" are like leaves that will fall away, away from the root. Too many versions of "truth", too many innovations, changes, edits and personal interjections. It doesn't work.

One Book (Holy Qur'an), one final messenger (pbuh), one language (Arabic), never changing, recited for practice and memorization, prayed in the same manner, across the globe for 1400 years.

Why does anyone remain Christian?

[stastony]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDrOb...eature=related

I thought I were against animate pictures & videos as per the fatwa of Mufti Ibrahim Desai. When did you change your position?

[2puO4Rhf]

^


Maybe he only listened and didn't watch? That's what I did. However the music was a pain.

[stastony]

^


Maybe he only listened and didn't watch? That's what I did. However the music was a pain.

How did you avoid music?

[Adfcvkdg]

I just happened upon this same video the other day. It's hard to make any sense of the New Testament, since some of it contradicts other parts of it, and some of it contradicts the OT. It's been changed and edited by different cultures in different languages, but what one does come away with, is that Jesus (pbuh) did not ask people to pray to him, but instead to God (Allah, swt). Granted, the Leper in John 9:38, is noted to have "worshipped" Jesus (pbuh) after he was healed, but it's not like Jesus (pbuh) turned around and said "yes, please continue to do that, all of you". Jesus (pbuh) tells everyone he is the "Son of Man" (perhaps an appropriate title for a prophet), which goes back to the OT. Most of what we think we "know" about Jesus (pbuh) was written by Paul, before the Gospels were even written, although they refer to an earlier (closer to his life) time. They are of course, placed in a different order in the Bible.

The whole Blood-vow, eating of the flesh, all that...it is from elements of Pagan rights, and was incorporated into Christianity, and because of hundreds of innovations, across a wide swath of cultures, in different languages, we know have more than 20,000 denominations world-wide of the so-called "Body of Christ", or "Catholic (meaning universal) Church". Which is clearly not true. The Christian church is a tree, with thousands of limbs, and disorganized branches, of which the "followers" are like leaves that will fall away, away from the root. Too many versions of "truth", too many innovations, changes, edits and personal interjections. It doesn't work.

One Book (Holy Qur'an), one final messenger (pbuh), one language (Arabic), never changing, recited for practice and memorization, prayed in the same manner, across the globe for 1400 years.

Why does anyone remain Christian?

Assalamu'alaikum
Dear Friends

What we need to take into consideration is the theological formulation which took place in the history of the Church, not dissimilar to what took place in Islam, and how the theological postions were able to explain the nature of the uncanonised text. After ijma(?) they made certain decisions and there we contesting positions.
What we as Muslims are interested in is the original texts in their original languages. The Aramaic, Syriac, Hebrew and Ugaritic texts are important to study in order to see what has been lost in translation when the reader was faced with a Greek or Latin translation and redaction. Textual criticism is at all not unfimiliar to Muslim scholars who now need to apply their expertise in another direction.

Wassalam and request for duas.
Ashraf Dockrat

[Dogxzysl]

I thought I were against animate pictures & videos as per the fatwa of Mufti Ibrahim Desai. When did you change your position?

Well I didn't see the video, nor did I hear the audio. A friend gave it to me saying that it is a great video for christians to see.

[jstizzle]

So you have chosen for others what you have not chosen for yourself ... Hmmmm ^^