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Old 11-23-2010, 04:05 PM   #1
milfovoxapl

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Default Answer to a Barelwi regarding kissing thumbs during athan!
A certain Barelwi posted a long article in which he tried to prove that kissing the thumbs on hearing the Prophet's(saws) name during Adhaan is Mustahabb according to Ahl al Sunna. This is a point by point refutation of his misleading post on a prominent Bida'ti forum. Wa salam.
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The black font is the Barelwi.

Kissing the Thumbs on Hearing the Name of the Beloved Prophet:
When hearing the Muazzin proclaim, "Ash'hadu anna Muhammad ar Rasoolullah," it is preferred (Mustahab) to kiss the two thumbs or the shahaadat finger and place them on the eyes. There are many religious and worldly benefits associated to this, as well as numerous Ahadith documenting its practice. Doing so is even practiced by the Sahaaba, and Muslims everywhere perform it in the belief that it is Mustahab.

Comment: The actual statement should be, "It is preferred `according to the people to Bida'’ to kiss the thumbs or the shahaada finger and place them on the eyes. There are many ‘imaginary’ religious and worldly benefits associated with this, as well as numerous ‘exceedingly’ weak and ‘false’ ahadith documenting its practice. Doing so ‘is even claimed’ by some to be practiced by the Sahaba and Mubtadi'in everywhere perform it in ‘the wrong belief’ that it is Mustahab."


It is stated in the book, Salaat al-Mas'oodi:
روي عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم انه قال من سمع اسمي في الاذان ووضع ابھاميه على عينيه فانا طالبه في صفوف القيمه و قائده الى الجنه
''The Noble Messenger is reported to have said, "On the Day of Qiyaamat, I shall search for the person who used to place his thumbs on his eyes when hearing my name during the Adhaan. I shall lead him into Jannat." [Salat al-Mas'oodi, Vol 2, Chapter 20]

Comment: My dear friend who likes to give the sanad of every hadith that he quotes, where is the sanad of this hadith? For those who have never been introduced to the Islamic sciences(i.e. Barelwis) let me inform you that when "The Noble Messenger is reported to have said" is the way of narration then it means that the hadith is inauthentic.

Allama Ismail Haqqi Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho writes under the verse 58 of Surah al Maidah,
وضعف تقبيل ظفرى ابهاميه مع مسبحتيه والمسح على عينيه عند قوله محمد رسول الله لانه لم يثبت فى الحديث المرفوع لكن المحدثين اتفقوا على ان الحديث الضعيف يجوز العمل به فى الترغيب والترهيب
"Kissing the nails of the thumbs and the shahadat finger when saying "Muhanunadur-Rasoolullah SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam has been classified as weak (zaeef) because it is not proven from a marfoo' Hadith. However, Muhadditheen have agreed that to act upon a zaeef Hadith to incline people towards [good] deeds and instill fear within them is permitted." [Tafseer Rooh al-Bayaan, Vol 3, Page 282]

Comment: Tafseer Ruh al Bayaan, one of the most inauthentic and filled with weak narrations tafseer in the world. It is not proven from a hadith marfu'? It is not even proven from a da'eef hadith. It is proven from a fabricated hadith which some scholars have labelled as extremely weak. Such ahadith cannot be used for Fad'ail 'Amal.


Shaami states,
يستحب أن يقال عند سماع الأولى من الشهادة : صلى الله عليك يا رسول الله ، وعند الثانية منها : قرت عيني بك يا رسول الله ، ثم يقول : اللهم متعني بالسمع والبصر بعد وضع ظفري الإبهامين على العينين فإنه عليه السلام يكون قائدا له إلى الجنة ، كذا في كنز العباد . قهستاني ، ونحوه في الفتاوى الصوفية . وفي كتاب الفردوس من قبل ظفري إبهامه عند سماع أشهد أن محمدا رسول الله في الأذان أنا قائده ومدخله في صفوف الجنة وتمامه في حواشي البحر للرملي
"On the testimony (of Prophethood) in Adhaan, it is Mustahab to say "Sallallaahu Alaika Ya Rasoolallah SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam on the first and "Quratu Aini bika Ya RasoolAllah SubHanuhu wa Ta'ala on the second. Then, place the nails of your thumbs on your eyes and say, "Allahumma Matti'ni bis-Sam'i wal-Basr." The Holy Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam will lead the person who does this into Jannat. The same has been documented by Kanzul lbaad, Qohistaani and in Fataawa Soofia. Kitaabul-Firdaus states that the Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam has said, I shall lead into Jannat the person who kisses his thumbnails when hearing "Ash'hadu anna Muhammad ar-Rasoolullah. I will also place him amongst the ranks of the inmates of Janna'. The complete discussion on this has been given in the marginal notes on Bahr ar-Raaiq of Ramli." [Radd al Muh'tar, Baab al-Adhan, Vol. 3, Page 233]

Comment: Again books of fiqh where books of hadith have failed you? Where is the daleel?


This extract has given the reference of 5 books Kanz al-Ibaad, Fataawa Soofia, Kitaab al-Firdaus, Qohistaani and the marginal notes on Bahr ar-Raaiq. All of them have ruled this practice to be Mustahab.

Comment: The dua mentioned in Radd Al-Muhtar is mentioned from a book called "Kanzal-'Ibad" about which the great Hanafi scholar Mullah Ali Qari (RA) gives a verdict:وفي هذا الكنز أحاديث سَمْجَة موضوعة، لا يحل سماعها
"This "Kanz" contains disgusting fabricated Ahadith. It is not permissible to even hear them!"

Shaykh Ghulam Mustafa Al-Sindhi (RA) states regarding the same "Kanzal-'Ibad":
إنه مملوء بالمسائل الواهية والأحاديث الموضوعة، لا عبرة له لا عند الفقهاء ولا عند المحدثين

It is full of weak Masail (issues) and fabricated Ahadith. Neither do the Fuqaha or the Muhaddithin attach any weight to this book!

Allamah Ibn Abideen (RA) quotes the book "Al-Fatawa Al-Sufiyya" which is classed an unreliable and issues mentioned therein are not be practised upon by Alamah Birgivi (RA), Allamah Khadimi (RA), Allamah Abdul Hai Lukhnawi (RA) and Shaykh Ghulam Mustafa Al-Sindhi (RA):
ا
لفتاوى الصوفية ليست من الكتب المعتبرة فلا يجوز العمل بما فيها إلا إذا علم موافقتها للأصول
Water can only flow in one direction.


In the book "al Maqasid al Hasanah Fil Hadisil Atwirah Alas Sunnah". Imam Sakhawi Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho states,

ذكره الديلمي في الفردوس من حديث أبي بكر الصديق أنه لما سمع قول المؤذن ( أشهد أن محمدا رسول الله ) قال هذا وقبل باطن الانملتين السبابتين ومسح عينيه فقال ( من فعل مثل ما فعل خليلي فقد حلت عليه شفاعتي ) ولا يصح


"Dailmi reports that Hadrat Abu Bakr Siddique Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho once said 'When I heard the Muazzin say Ash'hadu anna Muharnrnadar-Rasoolullah SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam, I said the same, kissed the inner-side of my Kalima finger and placed it on my eyes. When the Holy Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam noticed this, he said. My intercession becomes obligatory upon he who does the same as my beloved.' This Hadith hasn't reached the classification of Sahih." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadit 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 384]


Comment: Your translation is wrong. He is saying, "And this is not sahih". What you are suggesting is that the hadith has reach an authentic grade less than sahih, viz hasan which is absolutely wrong. This is in actuality a fabricated hadith, not even a weak one.


Quoting the book Moojibaat ar-RaHmah, Imam Sakhaawi Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho further writes.
عن الخضر عليه السلام أنه من قال حين يسمع المؤذن يقول أشهد أن محمدا رسول الله مرحبا بحبيبي وقرة عيني محمد بن عبد الله ثم يقبل ابهاميه ويجعلهما على عينيه لم يرمد أبدا
"It is reported from Hadrat Khidr Alaihis Salam , "If a person says "Marhaban bi-Habibi Quratu Aini Muhammad ibn Abdullah" when hearing the Muazzin say "Ash'hadu anna Muhammadur-Rasoolullah, then kisses his thumbs and places them on his eyes, never will they (the eyes) be sore."
[al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadith 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 384]

Comment: Who reported it from Khadir(as)? Your father? Is this your daleel? What nonsense.
Shaykh Ahmad al-Raddad cited it in his book Mu’jibaat al Rahma(wa- ‘Azaaim al maghfira) with a broken chain containing unknown narrators from al-Khadir(as). In fact, everything related on this chapter is inauthentic as attributed to the Prophet(saws). Mulla `Ali al-Qari’s
Al-Asrar al-Marfu’a fil-Akhbar al-Mawdu`at.
Read this: Allamah Muhammad Tahir Hanafi (RA) and Mullah Ali Qari (RA) give a verdict about this narration in Tazkiratul-Mauduaat (page 36) and Al-Mauduatul-Kabeer page 75):
بسند فیھ مجاھیل مع انقطاعھ ۔ ۔ ۔
Its chain contains many narrators who are Majaheel and it is also disconnected.
Imam Baihaqi (RA) states in Kitaab ul Qir'aa (page 127):
فی ھذا الاسناد قوم مجھولون ولم یکلفنا اللہ تعالی ان یاخذ دیننا عمن لا نعرفھ
And in its chain are several narrators who are Majhool and Allah(SWT) has not made us responsible to take our religion from Majhool narrators.


He further writes that Abul Abbas Ahmad said that Muhammad ibn Baabaa, narrating his personal experience, states.
أنه هبت ريح فوقعت منه حصاة في عينه فأعياه خروجها وآلمته أشد الألم وأنه لما سمع المؤذن يقول أشهد أن محمدا رسول الله قال ذلك فخرجت الحصاة من فوره
"Once, due to a heavy wind blowing, a pebble hit my eye and refused to come out. I experienced major pain because of it." When Muhammad ibn Baabaa heard the Muazzin say "Ash 'hadu anna Muhammad ar-Rasoolullah, " he said this "Quratu Aini ... 'and, immediately, the pebble fell out." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadit 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 384]

Comment: We are interested in Muhammad ibn 'Abdillah (saws) not Mr Bin_Baa_ Baa. Do you have something from Muhammad Rasulullah(saws) or not?


Allama Shams Muhammad ibn Saalih Madani Alaihis Salam reports Imam Amjad to have said.
من صلى على النبي إذا سمع ذكره في الاذان وجمع أصبعيه المسبحة والابهام وقبلهما ومسح بهما عينيه لم يرمد أبدا
"If the person who hears the name of the Noble Messenger SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam in the Adhaan joins his Kalima finger and his thumbs," "Kisses and places them on his eyes, never will they be sore." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadit 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 384]
Imam Amjad Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho who was an accomplished scholar in Egypt, further states,
بعض شيوخ العراق أو العجم أنه يقول عندما يمسح عينيه صلى لله عليك يا سيدي يا رسول الله يا حبيب قلبي ويا نور بصري ويا قرة عيني وقال لي كل منهما منذ فعله لم ترمد عيني

"Some non-Arab and Iraqi Mashaaikh have said that by this practice, the eyes will never be sore." "From the time I have brought this into practice even my eyes have not ached." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadit 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 384]
Ibn Saalih Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho states,
وأنا ولله الحمد والشكر منذ سمعته منهما استعملته فلم ترمد عيني وأرجو أن عافيتهما تدوم وأني أسلم من العمى إن شاء لله
"From the time I heard this benefit. I brought this action into practice. Since then, my eyes haven't become sore and it is my hope that, Insha-Allah, they will never be and I will be saved from being blind." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadit 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 385]
Imam Hasan Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho states, من قال حين يسمع المؤذن يقول أشهد أن محمدا رسول الله مرحبا بحبيبي وقرة عيني محمد بن عبد الله ويقبل إبهاميه ويجعلهما على عينيه لم يعم ولم يرمد
''The eyes of he who says 'Marhaban bi-Habibi wa Quratu Aini Muhammad ibn Abdullah' when hearing the Muazzin say "Ash'hadu anna Muhammad ar-Rasoolullah and kisses and places his thumbs on them will never pain nor will he become blind." [al Maqasid al Hasanah, Hadit 1021, Dar al Kutb Ilmiyah (Berut - Lebenon), Page 385] In short, the book alMaqaasid al Hasanah confirms this practice by many Imams of the deen.

Comment: These are all stories. The book confirms this practice by some 'ulama of the Khalaf and that too as a nuskha not a sunnah and not a single one of the Salaf. So the decisions are worthless from a Shari'i point of view.

Sharah Niqaaya states,
واعلم انه يستحب أن يقال عند سماع الأولى من الشهادة : صلى الله عليك يا رسول الله ، وعند الثانية منها : قرت عيني بك يا رسول الله ، وضع ظفري الإبهامين على العينين فإنه عليه السلام يكون قائدا له إلى الجنة ، كذا في كنز العباد
"It should be known that it is preferable (Mustahab) to say "Quratu Aini bika Ya Rasoolallah and place the thumbs on the eyes when hearing the first part of the second shahaadat. The Holy Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam wilt lead the person who does so into Jannat. Kanz al-Ibaad says likewise." [Jami' ar-Rumooz, Fasl al Adhan, Maktaba Islamiya (Iran), Vol 1, Page 125]
Maulana Jamaal ibn Abdullah ibn Umar Makki Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho states in his Fataawa,
تقبيل الابھامين ووضعھما على العينين عند ذكر اسمه عليه السلام في الاذان جائز بل مستحب صرح به مشائخنا
"Taqbeelul-Ibhaamain (kissing and placing the thumbs on the eyes when hearing the blessed name of Rasoolullah SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam in Adhaan) not just permissible, but Mustahab. Our Mashaaikh have elucidated this.” [Fatawa Jamal Ibn Abdullah Ibn Umar Makki]
Allama Muhammad Taahir Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho classifying this Hadith as Ghair-Sahih, also states,
وروي تجربة عن كثيرين "There are many reports of this benefit being experienced." [Khatima Majma' BiHar al-Anwaar, Vol 3, Page 511]
There are many other quotations besides these that can also be presented.

Comment: The stories of story tellers are indeed endless but we are interested in the Qur'an and Sunna. Do you have anything to do with them?

For the sake of conciseness. we make do with only these. Hadrat Sadr al-Afadhil, Maulana Sayyed Muhammad Naeemuddin Muraadabaai states that a very ancient copy of the Injeel (New Testament) has been discovered. It is known as the Gospel of Barnabas and has been translated into almost every language. The majority of its rulings and laws resemble Islamic commands.

Comment: The Gospel of Barnabas is a forgery and is as fabricated as the Juz' al Mafqud of 'Abd al Razzaq.

It's written inside that when Hadrat Adam Alaihis Salam wished to see the Noor of the Beloved Mustapha SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam (Rooh al-Quds). The Noor was made bright on the nails of his thumbs. Hadrat Adam Alaihis Salam then kissed and placed them on his eyes out of love and appreciation.

Comment: Sounds like a TV serial in India. So nowadays you take your dala'il from the New Testament?

Besides the Ulama of the Hanafi Mad'hab, Ulama from the Shafee and Maaliki Mad'habs have also ruled the kissing of the thumbs (Taqbeel al-Ibhaamain) to be Mustahab. A famous Shafa'ee book of Fiqh, I'aanatut-Taalibeen 'Alaa Hali alfaazi Fat'hil-Mu'een, states,
ثم يقبل ابھاميه و يجعلھما على عينيه لم يعم ولم يرمد ابدا
"Then kiss and place your thumbs on your eyes. By doing so, never will you become blind nor will your eyes be sore,' [I'aanatut-Taalibeen, Page 247, Egyptian Edition]
Another famous book of the Maaliki Mad'hab, Kifaayat at-Taalib ar Rabbani Ii Risaalati Ibn Abi Zaid Qeerwaani Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho, after saying much about this practice, states,
عينيه لم يعم ولم يرمد ابدا "Never will the eyes of the person who does so pain, nor will he become blind." [Kifaayat at-Taalib ar Rabbani, Vol 1, Page 169, Egyptian Edition]
Shaikh Ali Saeed Adawi Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho writes in his commentary of this extract,
لم يبين موضع التقبيل من ابھامين الا انه نقل عن الشيخ العالم المفسر نور الدين الخراساني قال بعضهم لقيته وقت الاذان فلما سمع الموذن يقول اشھد ان محمدا رسول الله قبل ابھامي نفسه و مسح بالظفرين اجفان عينيه من الماق الي ناحيه الصدع ثم فعل ذلك عند كل تشھد مرة فسالته عن ذلك ففقال كنت افعله ثم تركته فمرضت عيناي فرئيته صلى الله عليه وسلم مناما فقال لما تركت مسح عينيك عند الاذان ان اردت ان تبرء عيناك فعد في المسح فاستيقظت و مسحت فبرئت ولم يعاود في مرضھا الي الان
"The writer didn't mention when the thumbs should be kissed. However, it is reported that some people met Allama Mufassir Nooruddin Khorasaani Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho at the time of Adhaan. When he heard the Muazzin say "Ash'hadu anna Muhammad ar-Rasoolullah he kissed and placed his thumbs on the eyelashes and comer of his eyes, right until the temples. He did this on every shahaadat. When the people asked him about this practice of his, he replied, "I used to kiss my thumbs but stopped after a while. My eyes later became sore. I then saw the Holy Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam in a dream and he said to me, "Why did you stop kissing your thumbs and placing them on the eyes during the Adhaan? If you want your eyes to stop paining, resume this practice." Thus, from then on, I continued this action and gained comfort. The pain didn't return from the time I recommenced this." [Nahjul-Istamia, Page 177]


Comment: One fake hadith and one dream. That is the extent of your daleel in this long, tedious, nonsensical post.

Important Note: Direct narrations and Ahadith have been presented regarding this practice in Adhaan. Takbeer (lqaamat) is in the likeness of Adhaan, and it has even been called Adhaan in the Ahadith. Therefore, kissing and placing the thumbs during the Takbeer is also beneficial and a means of blessings but during Salah or a Khutba or whilst listening to the Qur’an it should not be done!

Comment: Direct FORGED narrations and MAWDU`ahadith have been presented for this practice in Adhaan. Take the same for Iqaama. Ek pe Ek free.


Not performing it during salah is evident and the impermissibility during listening to the khutba or the Qur’an is because one should have utmost attention at these times and refrain from any unnecessary movements. When the verse Maa kaana muhammadun abaa ahadim mir rijalikum is recited, so many people kiss their thumbs, it is as if birds have gathered to sing and they do it to such an extent that people from afar cannot even hear some words of the holy Qur’an. Even if there is no harm to place the thumbs on the lips and then place them on the eyes at this time; there is no ruling to make a sound during the kiss of reverence – like when one kisses the black stone, the ka’aba, the Qur’an or the hands and feet of the pious. There is no rule to make the noises like a flock of birds.
Conclusion:This entire discussion establishes that kissing and placing the thumbs during the Adhaan, etc. is Mustahab. It is found as the Sunnat of' Hadrat Adam Alaihis Salam, Abu Bakr Siddique Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho and Imam Hasan Radi ALLAHu Ta'ala Anho.

Comment: Very true. It is proven from false ahadith.

Even Imams of the Shafa'ee and Maaliki Mad'habs have ruled it to be Mustahab. In every era, Muslim deemed this practice to have this very ruling, along with the following benefits,

Comment: So the world of Bida' is not populated by you Barelwis alone! Lovely.


The eyes of a person who does this are saved from being sore.

1. Insha-Allah, he will never become blind.


2. It is an excellent cure to remove something problematic to the eyes. These benefits have been experienced several times.

Comment: What is the use of seeing with the eyes when the heart is blind? By the way are you writing a book on medicine or an article on fiqh?

3. The Prophet SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam will intercede for the one who practices this.

4. Sayyiduna Rasoolullah SallAllaho Alaihi wa Sallam will also search for the person who used to perform it and lead him into Jannah.

As long as no explicit proof of its prohibition is found, It cannot be stopped. Muslims deeming something preferable (Mustahab) is sufficient proof for it being so. However, for certification of Karaahat (i.e. to deem something Makrooh), a specific proof is needed! So, Calling this practice Haraam is sheer ignorance and an act of prejudice and strait-mindedness of a person afflicted with the blindness of Faith (Eiman). May Allah protect us from falling to this depth of depravity and deviation from the right path... Aameen!!

Comment: Yes. Very right. Doing things according the the Sharia' and asking for evidence is sheer ignorance and an act of prejudice. Letting every Bida' grow like grass under your feet is actually Sunna. Mashallah. Kya baat hai.

والله سبحانه وتعالى اعلم ورسوله اعلم بالصواب
Almighty Allah SubHanuhu wa Ta'ala and His Beloved Rasool Sallallaho Alaihi wa Aalihi wa Sallam knows the best!

Comment: Allah knows Best.

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Old 11-23-2010, 04:42 PM   #2
Dndjzirw

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I dont know but this something that one Malaysian sheikh also wrote. I think it was akiti or something like that his name was. & as stated in the berelwis article- he said its mustahab as we can take fadhail from weak ahadith. he mentioned that it was a practice of Abu Bakr RA too. iv seen many arab shafi's do it too
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Old 11-23-2010, 05:13 PM   #3
Helloheshess

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he said its mustahab as we can take fadhail from weak ahadith.
not when it introduces an action(kissing the thumb and wiping the eyes.) to get certain virtue.
he mentioned that it was a practice of Abu Bakr RA too
http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...c46c656be7d376

some ulama(like mufti taqi saab and mufti ibn adam) mentioned its okay to do so without thinking it being mustahab if it comes out of love of prophet(sw). I dont know how such HIGH love comes during in adhan ONLY, where he must self busy with answering azan and doing dua accordign to hadith, instead kissing and wiping the eyes, but they dont do so always after the azaan when prophet(sw) names in being mentioned!

that time the high love runs away from the window!
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Old 11-23-2010, 05:19 PM   #4
milfovoxapl

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I dont know but this something that one Malaysian sheikh also wrote. I think it was akiti or something like that his name was. & as stated in the berelwis article- he said its mustahab as we can take fadhail from weak ahadith. he mentioned that it was a practice of Abu Bakr RA too. iv seen many arab shafi's do it too
The name of that scholar is Muhammad 'Afifi al-Akiti. He is in Oxford and is originally from Malaysia.
His answer on this issue is on the website of a person called Gibril Haddad.
Regarding the matter of taking fada'il from weak hadith remember that it is conditional upon the hadith not being too weak. And this hadith comes in the collections of mawdu' traditions, not just weak. It cannot be used as proof for Al Siddiq's practice either because of its severe weakness.
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Old 11-23-2010, 05:27 PM   #5
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The name of that scholar is Muhammad 'Afifi al-Akiti. He is in Oxford and is originally from Malaysia.
His answer on this issue is on the website of a person called Gibril Haddad.
Regarding the matter of taking fada'il from weak hadith remember that it is conditional upon the hadith not being too weak. And this hadith comes in the collections of mawdu' traditions, not just weak. It cannot be used as proof for Al Siddiq's practice either because of its severe weakness.
could you post his article. i dont think i got it from Haddads site.
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Old 11-23-2010, 05:50 PM   #6
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mentioend in 5th post:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ng-your-thumbs

and the challange of our mufti Husain saab stands that who believes that the hadith is just weak and not fabricated, should come with the chain and show him.
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Old 11-23-2010, 08:36 PM   #7
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Home » Shaykh Muhammad Afifi al-Akiti : Kissing the Thumbs, etc. during Adhan? Shaykh Muhammad Afifi al-Akiti : Kissing the Thumbs, etc. during Adhan?
I hope that you are well and in good health with the grace of Allah Ta’allah. I spoke to you in the Mosque yesterday after your kutba, my name is [xyz].

I would like to know whether kissing the thumbs and putting them on your eyes on hearing the Prophet Muhammad (blessing and peace of Allah be upon him and his family) in the azan has any basis according to Shafi mazhab? I have read that it is not aloud, but i have read that there is a Hadith about Hazrat Abu Bakr (may Allah be please with him) doing this action and the Prophet (blessing and peace of Allah be upon him and his family) saying follow my companions sunnah. According to the literature this Ahadith is not authentic (weak), can you enlight me on this subject. I follow Hanafi mazhab but I want to hear your answer on this subject coz your neutral because your a Shafi teacher I want to know what the ruling is in Shafi mazhab.

Allah Hafiz

Ma sha’ Allah, Rabbi zidni ‘ilman!

In fiqh, the discussion of taqbil al-unbulatayn wa mash al-’aynayn is usually found at the end of Bab Adhan. Certain gestures performed during the adhan, and specifically the ‘amal of kissing the thumbs and wiping the eye, are something known to Shafi’is, and there can be no objection whatsoever by our jurists (and any jurists for that matter) to those wishing to perform this ‘amal: as far as we are concerned, it is classified under the category of the Fada’il al-A’mal [I'anat, 1:243; al-Jurdani, Fath al-'Allam, 2:140-1].

Among its legal bases ['ilal] is that it is a Sunna of the first Khalifa of the Messenger of Allah (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him!) [i.e., an Athar of the first Khalifa], and it is also based on a number of Hadiths, of which the most well known is the Hadith of Abu Bakr (may Allah be well pleased with him!):

lammA sami’a qawla l-mu’adhdhini ashhadu anna MuHammadan rasUluLlAhi qAla hAdhA wa qabbila bATina l-unmulatayni l-sabbAbatayni wa masaHa ‘aynayhi fa-qAla SallaLlAhu ‘alayhi wa sallama man fa’ala mithla khalIlI faqad Hallat ‘alayhi shafA’atI [Whenever he [Abu Bakr] heard the Mu’addhin say: “I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah”, he would repeat this [phrase as it is the Mandub of Adhan] and would kiss the tip of the index fingers [or thumbs] and wipe his eyes. The Prophet (may Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him!) said: whosoever does what my friend [i.e., Abu Bakr] did, my intercession will come down upon him] (Related by al-Daylami, with variants).

Almost all of the Muhaddith consider this and other Hadiths like it to be weak [Da'if] (at its lowest level, a Marfu’ Hadith [something ascribed to the Prophet]; and it is because the Hadith is Da’if that the ‘amal is counted among the Fada’il, and not the confirmed Sunna!). Nevertheless, this is definitely not a fabricated Hadith [Mawdu'], and weak Hadiths are not and cannot be considered as false and lies. Furthermore, as Sayyid ‘Alawi al-Maliki (may Allah be pleased with him!) reported in his dedicated treatise on the rules concerning the use of weak Hadiths, the Manhal Latif, that scholars of the four law-schools [madhhab] concurred by Ijma’ [Consensus]–and that this Ijma’ was recorded from the time of the Mujtahid Imam, Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (may Allah be well pleased with him!) until now–that any Hadith which are Da’if (as long as it is not Mawdu’), can be acted upon for the Fada’il al-A’mal ['Alawi al-Maliki, Manhal, 251-253]. Literally, “Fada’il al-A’mal” means ‘extra works’; but technically it means the extra acts of devotion performed, or refrained from, beyond one’s call of duty in order to please the Lawmaker, that is, an ‘amal that can lead to it’s being classed either as recommended [i.e., Mandub/Sunna/Mustahabb] or disliked [Makruh] but never Wajib [obligatory] or Haram [prohibited]. In this mas’ala, of course, it is a recommended act (and not Makruh).

Know that he who blames others–in the name of bid’a–for carrying out an ‘amal, saying that it is based on a weak Hadith or that the ‘amal is not based on an authentic Hadith, shows a sign that he may not be a trained faqih (whether he is called a Mufti/Shaykh/Mawlana or not); and that he probably has knowledge only of the literal Arabic but not a deep understanding of what is beyond the text, which is what the jurist is expected to know. In the old days, when scholarship was taken for granted (because scholastic ‘alims were many and accessible then), even the public knew that a weak Hadith can form the basis of an ‘amal. Imam al-Nawawi (may Allah be pleased with him!), in his popular work the Adhkar, says:

“The specialists of Hadiths [i.e., Muhaddith] and the jurists [Fuqaha'] and other (scholars) have said that one is permitted, and in fact is recommended, to use weak Hadith in matters of ‘extra acts of devotion’ [Fada'il] and in ‘arousing one’s desire to do good and inspiring one’s fear from doing evil’ [Targhib wa al-Tarhib]–as long as it is not a fabricated Hadith. As for the legal rulings pertaining to what is lawful and unlawful [al-Halal wa al-Haram], buying and selling, marriage and divorce, and others like it [because all of them involve either an injunctive legal ruling [Hukm Shar'i Taklifi] (such as Haram and Wajib) or a stipulatory legal ruling [Hukm Shar'i Wad'i] (such as Shart and Mani’)] are concerned, one can only use a rigorously authenticated Hadith [Sahih] or a well authenticated Hadith [Hasan], except if a precautionary ruling [Ihtiyat] is [involved] in some matter relating to one of them. So, if a weak Hadith is found to object against some types of sales or some form of marriages, then it is recommended to avoid it (i.e., the sale or the marriage) even when it is not obligatory to do so [and even when the sale or the marriage is legally valid].” [al-Nawawi, Adhkar, 7-8]

I am not a Hanafi scholar (from whom you should really be asking your fiqhi/furu’ questions), but classical Hanafi reference texts such as those of the Muhaqqiq of your school, Ibn ‘Abidin (and in spite the fact that he knew this ‘amal is based on weak Hadiths, he nevertheless) relates the opinion that this ‘amal is permissible and even Mustahabb, that is, the act when done will entail a reward. [Ibn 'Abidin, Hashiya, 2:84-5]. In practice, apart from the Hanafis, some Shafi’i communities have inherited this ‘amal, and among the Malikis, those who are in the Sudan.

###Qa’ida### To this end, we could sum up a point of law tersely in the following maxim: al-’amalu bi-r-riDA yanfI l-Hurmata [an act that is consented to, prevents prohibition].
What I mean by this qa’ida is that once something has been accepted by some of the mustahiqq, in this case, the scholars and the public alike, no one has any right [haqq] to object to it.

So do not be swayed by what you read if Muslims have been doing this in the past and are still doing this fadila ‘amal. If there are others who blame you for carrying on with this inherited ‘amal, then know that the person, apart from wasting his precious time, knows not how to leave alone what does not concern him [tark ma la ya'nih] where his time could be better spent in improving the lot of the Muslims today or benefiting others in this world. Not only does he not know how to mind his own business, but he has no right whatsoever to censure [Ihtisab] you in the first place (and by not tolerating and by criticizing you on this, he himself is transgressing a well known rule of Bab Amr bi-l-Ma’ruf wa Nahi ‘an al-Munkar [roughly speaking, the duty of a Muslim to intervene when another is acting wrongly]: that the duty has no application in matters over which the fuqaha’ differed, thereby making himself liable for others to advise him). Furthermore, what is more embarrassing is that there is no legal basis ['illa] and cause [sabab] that warrants a Hisba for this case, or at least no jurist properly schooled will ever entertain the thought. For when others are blamed by a Muhtasib for carrying out this ‘amal, it is no different from the case of someone becoming upset at the sight of a pedestrian suddenly stopping to remove a wad of old chewing gum from his path (ponder over this!) or at the very minimum, complaining why a customer is buying only apples and not oranges.

According to Shafi’i jurists, this act is counted among the Fada’il, and there are undeniable benefits for those who wish to take from it and they are means to make one rich in the Next world; and in the same way that the one performing it cannot criticize others for neglecting it, nor can others criticize those who carry on doing it. It is a matter of personal choice (for one’s private-but-made-public bank account is no one else’s in the Next world) if one wants to take or overlook this Fadila in this world: take it or leave it, no more.

Allahumma aj’alna mina’l-’amilin wa-la taj’alna mina’l-mutakallikim!

[O' Allah! Make us among those who do some work, not among those who can only talk]; Amin!

May this be of benefit.

wa sallallahu ‘ala Muhammadin wa ‘ala alihi wa sahbihi wa sallam
wa billahi t-tawfiq wa l-hidaya wa l-hamdulillah rabbi l-’alamin.

Your silent brother in Oxford,

M. Afifi al-Akiti
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Old 11-23-2010, 08:56 PM   #8
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Home » Shaykh Muhammad Afifi al-Akiti : Kissing the Thumbs, etc. during Adhan? Shaykh Muhammad Afifi al-Akiti : Kissing the Thumbs, etc. during Adhan?
I hope that you are well and in good health with the grace of Allah Ta’allah. I spoke to you in the Mosque yesterday after your kutba, my name is [xyz].

I would like to know whether kissing the thumbs and putting them on your eyes on hearing the Prophet Muhammad (blessing and peace of Allah be upon him and his family) in the azan has any basis according to Shafi mazhab? I have read that it is not aloud, but i have read that there is a Hadith about Hazrat Abu Bakr (may Allah be please with him) doing this action and the Prophet (blessing and peace of Allah be upon him and his family) saying follow my companions sunnah. According to the literature this Ahadith is not authentic (weak), can you enlight me on this subject. I follow Hanafi mazhab but I want to hear your answer on this subject coz your neutral because your a Shafi teacher I want to know what the ruling is in Shafi mazhab.

Allah Hafiz

Ma sha’ Allah, Rabbi zidni ‘ilman!

In fiqh, the discussion of taqbil al-unbulatayn wa mash al-’aynayn is usually found at the end of Bab Adhan. Certain gestures performed during the adhan, and specifically the ‘amal of kissing the thumbs and wiping the eye, are something known to Shafi’is, and there can be no objection whatsoever by our jurists (and any jurists for that matter) to those wishing to perform this ‘amal: as far as we are concerned, it is classified under the category of the Fada’il al-A’mal [I'anat, 1:243; al-Jurdani, Fath al-'Allam, 2:140-1].

Among its legal bases ['ilal] is that it is a Sunna of the first Khalifa of the Messenger of Allah (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him!) [i.e., an Athar of the first Khalifa], and it is also based on a number of Hadiths, of which the most well known is the Hadith of Abu Bakr (may Allah be well pleased with him!):

lammA sami’a qawla l-mu’adhdhini ashhadu anna MuHammadan rasUluLlAhi qAla hAdhA wa qabbila bATina l-unmulatayni l-sabbAbatayni wa masaHa ‘aynayhi fa-qAla SallaLlAhu ‘alayhi wa sallama man fa’ala mithla khalIlI faqad Hallat ‘alayhi shafA’atI [Whenever he [Abu Bakr] heard the Mu’addhin say: “I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah”, he would repeat this [phrase as it is the Mandub of Adhan] and would kiss the tip of the index fingers [or thumbs] and wipe his eyes. The Prophet (may Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him!) said: whosoever does what my friend [i.e., Abu Bakr] did, my intercession will come down upon him] (Related by al-Daylami, with variants).

Almost all of the Muhaddith consider this and other Hadiths like it to be weak [Da'if]
what an ajeeb excersice of fiqh is it that, saying the statement is weak, yet considering it as sunna of abu bakr(rd)!! and he questions other ulama ability of being faqih to call it bidah!
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:14 PM   #9
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double post
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Old 11-24-2010, 12:04 AM   #10
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I think it's better not to argue over peripheral issues like kissing the thumb and focus on what we can do to advance as an ummah.
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Old 11-24-2010, 12:30 AM   #11
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I think it's better not to argue over peripheral issues like kissing the thumb and focus on what we can do to advance as an ummah.
The net is a vast ocean of information brother. The sayings of the Ulama Haqq can be lost in the twittering of birds of every hue. Which is why it is important to put the truth here. Secondly the specialty of al Barelwiyya is to turn peripheral issues into important ones and pass fatawa on others. Anyways, we are just presenting the truth from the earlier scholars, not arguing.
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Old 11-24-2010, 12:36 AM   #12
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mentioend in 5th post:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ng-your-thumbs

and the challange of our mufti Husain saab stands that who believes that the hadith is just weak and not fabricated, should come with the chain and show him.
No one will come forward till the day of Qiyama to accept that challenge. Wasalam.
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:06 PM   #13
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what an ajeeb excersice of fiqh is it that, saying the statement is weak, yet considering it as sunna of abu bakr(rd)!! and he questions other ulama ability of being faqih to call it bidah!
its obvious that there is difference in usool with this issue. like stated it is weak not fabricated. you in tabligh jamaat. lets say we start speaking bad about fadhail a'mal based on the fact that there are many weak ahadeeth there in. but our scholars & the tabligh scholars have mentioned that for fadhail purposes they fine. Ive heard brothers going on about you read this surah so many times & do this so many times & your reward will be this. half the time they from weak hadith so what would you say about that.

just because a practice is famous amongst the Berelwis it doesnt become wrong entirely.
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:42 PM   #14
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its obvious that there is difference in usool with this issue. like stated it is weak not fabricated. you in tabligh jamaat. lets say we start speaking bad about fadhail a'mal based on the fact that there are many weak ahadeeth there in. but our scholars & the tabligh scholars have mentioned that for fadhail purposes they fine. Ive heard brothers going on about you read this surah so many times & do this so many times & your reward will be this. half the time they from weak hadith so what would you say about that.

just because a practice is famous amongst the Berelwis it doesnt become wrong entirely.


It seems you didnt read the thread linked. You brought the same points as were brought in that thread.

In TJ when a weak hadeeth is used for fadhail.. and then you go ahead and do that action. Is the action substantiated with that weak hadeeth or the its mashroo'iyat through other stronger ahadeeth?

In this case the weak hadeeth is becoming the mustadal.. that is the difference.

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Old 11-24-2010, 04:06 PM   #15
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its obvious that there is difference in usool with this issue. like stated it is weak not fabricated. you in tabligh jamaat. lets say we start speaking bad about fadhail a'mal based on the fact that there are many weak ahadeeth there in. but our scholars & the tabligh scholars have mentioned that for fadhail purposes they fine. Ive heard brothers going on about you read this surah so many times & do this so many times & your reward will be this. half the time they from weak hadith so what would you say about that.

just because a practice is famous amongst the Berelwis it doesnt become wrong entirely.
From the Imams of Shafi'iyyah: Al-Allamah Sakhaawi (RA) quotes his own teacher Al-Imam Al-Hafidh Ibn Hajar Asqalani (RA) in Al-Qawl-ul-Badi' about the conditions of acting on weak Hadeeth. These conditions are absent from the action under discussion even if we were to accept that the weakness in this narration is acceptable, the three conditions are as follows:

1. أن يكون الضعف غير شديد ، فيخرج من انفرد من الكذابين والمتهمين بالكذب ومن فحش غلطه.

2. أن يكون مندرجاً تحت أصل عام، فيخرج ما يخترع بحيث لا يكون له أصل أصلاً،

3.ألا يُعْتَقَدَ ثبوته عند العمل به ، لئلا ينسبَ إلى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ما لم يقله.


1) The weakness shouldn't be strong and excluded are narrations which contain narrators who are liars, or accused of lying or who commit a major error.

2) It should fall under a common principle and narrations are excluded which contain no real basis (for actions).

3) And it should not be believed that this action is proven from Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) so that the possibility of attributing something to Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) should be avoided.
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:38 PM   #16
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so then sh Afifi was wrong. & even though his statement was wrong it took ahnaaf to tell him that he is wrong in the madhab in which he is qualified it.
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:45 PM   #17
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so then sh Afifi was wrong. & even though his statement was wrong it took ahnaaf to tell him that he is wrong in the madhab in which he is qualified it.
brother. Don't get angry unnecessarily. We are not trying to teach Shaykh 'Afifi al Akiti his madhhab. We are presenting the evidence here and leaving it for everyone to decide on his own so that tomorrow people who stare at someone who recites the durood on Nabi(saws) on hearing his name instead of kissing his thumbs will be able to understand how wrong they are and how right the person who follows the Sunna is. WS.
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:26 PM   #18
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brother. Don't get angry unnecessarily. We are not trying to teach Shaykh 'Afifi al Akiti his madhhab. We are presenting the evidence here and leaving it for everyone to decide on his own so that tomorrow people who stare at someone who recites the durood on Nabi(saws) on hearing his name instead of kissing his thumbs will be able to understand how wrong they are and how right the person who follows the Sunna is. WS.
exactly, you presenting evidence. but what if we dont have the tools to take that evidence & make a ruling ourselves. we go to people like sh Afif. once again you said that those who kiss thumbs are wrong.
so in your opininon since the sh mentioned that there various ahadeeth although weak- is there any chance that Abu Bakr RA was a thumb kisser so is he also among the wrong dowers.

im not angry by the way. if shafi's going to a deoband institute dont know their own usool then I cant see a hanafi from a deoband institute to say that sh afif is wrong. its obvious that in his view its mustahab as in his article. now since berelwis do it does it make it completely wrong. tomorrow we will hear that its biday to wear a green turban.
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:30 PM   #19
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exactly, you presenting evidence. but what if we dont have the tools to take that evidence & make a ruling ourselves. we go to people like sh Afif. once again you said that those who kiss thumbs are wrong.
so in your opininon since the sh mentioned that there various ahadeeth although weak- is there any chance that Abu Bakr RA was a thumb kisser so is he also among the wrong dowers.

im not angry by the way. if shafi's going to a deoband institute dont know their own usool then I cant see a hanafi from a deoband institute to say that sh afif is wrong. its obvious that in his view its mustahab as in his article. now since berelwis do it does it make it completely wrong. tomorrow we will hear that its biday to wear a green turban.


Bro SASLAMS, I understand that you are very close to Shaykh Taha Karaan. Could you please raise the issue with him and get his opinion instead.



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Old 11-24-2010, 06:36 PM   #20
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Bro SASLAMS, I understand that you are very close to Shaykh Taha Karaan. Could you please raise the issue with him and get his opinion instead.



i sent the question to two shafi scholars already. sh Nuh & sh Umar al Khatib (both via student studying with them). Sh Taha comes around from time to time but doesnt say anything. i wonder if he has a user name. but I can only imagine that he would say that its not something to get all hyped up about. by the way I dont even kiss my thumbs, its not something i grew up in but I tried to become punctual in it along time ago but it didnt larst. I use to do it just to get on some peoples nerves.
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