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Old 09-07-2007, 06:27 PM   #1
Abebpabeniemo

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Default Esal-e-Sawab
Doing Esal-e-Sawab? Is this established 4rm Hadiths???
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:38 PM   #2
PrettyFifa12

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Q: Is there a narration, which documents that Rasulullah Sallallaahu Alayhi wasallam ever performed an Ibadat like reciting Qur'an, and asking Allah to forward the reward to any of his deceased relatives?

A: Isaal-e-Sawaab (to perform a virtuous act and grant the reward to any person, alive or deceased) is permissible and in fact (Mustahabb) meritorious.

There are basically 2 forms of Isaal-e-Sawaab:

1. The conveying of the reward of charitable deeds.
2. The conveying of the reward of physical deeds that do not entail wealth, e.g. Salaat, fasting, Dhikr, recitation of the holy Qur'an, Tawaaf of the Ka'abah, etc.

The first form is unanimously acceptable by the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah. The second form is correct according to the Hanafi and Hanbali Madhab and several Shaafi'ee and Maaliki scholars as well.

As for the reward of Du'aa (which is separate from the above), there is also unanimity of the scholars in its reward reaching and benefiting the deceased. (refer al-Azkaar of Imaam Nawawi)

Hafiz ibnul Qayyim (RA) states that if one accepts the charitable form of Isaal-e-Sawaab and refutes the physical form, it would be said to him: 'What is the proof to show that the recitation of the holy Qur'aan does not reach the deceased?'

And Allamah Qurtubi states, 'Just as the reward of charitable deeds benefit the deceased, similarly, the recitation of the holy Qur'aan, Du'aa and Isghtifaar also do the same, because all of these are regarded as Sadaqah (charity) in Shari'ah.' (al-Tazkirah pg.71)

He, thereafter, mentioned 2 narrations recorded in Sahih Muslim which prove that even Salaat and Dhikr of Allah (Tasbeeh, Takbeer and Tahleel) were all classified as Sadaqah by Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). Hence, there remains no dispute in whether the reward of Qur'aanic recital benefits and deceased or not.

Besides the above, we will now for academic reasons, mention some proofs that substantiate both forms of Isaal-e-Sawaab.

1. 1. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) slaughtered sheep during his farewell Hajj and made intention for himself and all those (alive, deceased and to come) who bring faith on his prophethood. (Sahih Bukhari)
2. Imaam Bukhari has reported on the authority of Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Abbaas (Radhiallaahu Anhu) that Sayyiduna Sa'ad ibn Ubaadah (Radhiallaahu Anhu) was away when his mother passed away. When he returned, he asked Rasulullah, 'Will it be of any benefit if I give charity on her behalf?' Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) replied in the affirmative. (Sahih Bukhari Hadith2762)

Hafiz ibn Hajar al-Asqalaani (RA) states in his monumental commentary of Sahih Bukhari entitled, 'Fath al-Bari', 'This Hadith proves the permissibility of charity on behalf of the deceased and that the reward will reach him.' (Fath al-Baari vol.5 pg.477 Hadith2761)
3. Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Abbaas (Radhiallaahu Anhu) reports a man once asked Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), 'O Prophet of Allah! My father has passed away and he did not perform Hajj, can I perform Hajj on his behalf?' Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) enquired of him, 'If your father had any debt, would you have paid it.?' The man replied, 'Yes.' Upon this, Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, 'In that case, the Deen of Allah has more right.' (Sunan Nasaaie Hadith26331)
4. A separate incident of a similar nature has been recorded by Imaam Bukhari in his Sahih (Hadith6698). Hafiz ibn Qayyim (RA), the famous student of Hafiz ibn Taymiyah (RA), after quoting the above Ahaadith, states: 'These quotations all concur with the fact that when the living carry out any deed on behalf of the deceased, the reward will reach him (benefit him).' (Kitaab Ruh pg.161)
5. Sayyiduna al-Lajlaaj (Radhiallaahu Anhu), a companion of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), had bequested his son that after he leaves this world, he should recite the beginning and end of Surah al-Baqarah at the head side of his grave. Sayyiduna al-Lajlaaj (Radhiallaahu Anhu) then mentioned that he heard this from Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). (al-Mu'jamul Kabeer of Imaam Tabrani; Hafiz Haythami has regarded the narrators of this tradition as reliable - refer Majmauz-zawaaid vol.3 pg.44)
6. Such has also been recorded to be the practice of Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Umar (Radhiallaahu Anhu). (Sunan al-Kubra of Imaam Bayhaqi vol.4 pg.56). This narration has been classified as Hasan (sound) by Imaam Nawawiy and Hafiz ibn Hajar (RA). (al-Azkaar pg.212 Hadith493; al-Futuhaat al-Rabbaaniyya vol.3 pg.194)
7. Allaamah al-Qurtubi [ra] states that, 'Some of our Ulama have based the permissibility of Isaal-e-Sawaab of the recitation of the Qur'aan on the Hadith of Sahih Bukhari (Hadith216, 1361) and Sahih Muslim wherein there is mention of Rasulullah [Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] placing fresh branches on 2 graves and He [Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] said, 'Perhaps their punishment will be lightened through it as long as the branches do not dry up.' (The Ulama explain the reason for this to be the Tasbeeh that those fresh branches will recite).

Allaamah al-Qurtubi further states, 'If the Tasbeeh of trees can benefit the deceased, then why not the recitation of the Qur'aan by a believer in Allah?' (Al-Tazkirah pg.70)

Hafiz ibn Hajar (RA) has mentioned in a reply to a query of whether the reward of recitation of the Qur'aan reaches the deceased, that; it is Mustahabb (meritorious) for one to do this form of (Isaal-e-Sawaab) abundantly. (refer Tawdehul Bayaan li wusooli thawaabil Qur'aan of Shaykh Abdullah Siddique al-Ghumariy pg.2) Besides these there are numerous other narrations of this nature.

It thus becomes abundantly clear through the abovementioned Ahaadith that Isaal-e-Sawaab is totally permissible in all it's forms and is in fact a very virtuous deed. This is the view of the overwhelming majority of the classical scholars (Muhadditheen and Fuqahaa) of Islam. (refer Kitaab al-Rooh of ibn Qayyim pg.153; Fathul Baari vol.5 pg.477 Hadith2761; Sharhus-Sudoor of Allamah Suyuti pgs.402, 403 Dar ibn Kathir; al-Hidaaya vol.1 pg.296-297; Fathul Qadeer vol.3 pg.65-66; Shaami vol.2 pg.243 - HM Saeed)

If after understanding the above, one still denies the validity of the physical form of Isaal-e-Sawab, then the following method can in no circumstance be refuted. And that is that after one carries out a physical form of worship (i.e. Salat, fasting, recitation of the holy Qur'aan, etc.), he should make a Du'aa to Almighty Allah that Allah, firstly, accepts this noble deed and he should thereafter ask Allah to grant the reward to so and so person. In this way, if Allah accepts the Du'aa, the reward will automatically be conveyed to that specific person alive or deceased.

This method has been prescribed by great scholars like Imaam Nawawi and Hafiz ibn Hajar so as to remove all differences of opinion. We have already mentioned that there is no doubt in the deceased benefiting from the Du'aas of the living. In a narration of Sahih Muslim, Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) has mentioned that one the three things that will benefit the deceased is the Du'aa of his pious children. (Sahih Muslim pg.4199)

Lastly, we would like to mention that this Mas-alah (issue) is not something connect to beliefs, instead it is a Faraaidh (secondary) issue which entails a difference of opinion as well. (Fatawa ibnus salaah vol.1 pg.149). Hence, no one can claim that either part is guilty of perpetrating an act of Bid'ah (innovation), bearing in mind that the majority of the scholars accept all forms of Isaal-e-Sawaab. (refer Kitaab al-Ruh)

The incident of Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal has been recorded by Imaam Abu Bakr al-Khallaal in his Kitaabul Jaami as well as in his booklet entitled, 'Amr bil Ma'roof Wa Nahy anil Munkar, and according to this, Imaam Ahmad had approved of the recitation of the beginning and end of Surah al-Baqarah (refer Atharul Hadith of al-Muhaddith Shaykh Muhammad Awwaamah pgs.162-163)

As for your specific query of the validity of reciting the Qur'aan from the homes, it will suffice to say that there is no difference - in this instance - between recital in the graveyard and in the homes, just as there is no difference in making Du'aa for the deceased in the graveyard or from the home. And allow us to ask the question, what is the proof for the act of reciting from home and dedicating its reward to the deceased being void and incorrect?

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best
Moulana Muhammad ibn Moulana Haroon Abassommar
FACULTY OF SPECIALTY IN HADITH
CHECKED AND APPROVED: Mufti Ebrahim Desai
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:15 AM   #3
indianstory

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I always loved the answer above on the subject matter bc I was real confused being around certain individuals about the merit of it as well.
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Old 09-14-2007, 06:52 PM   #4
Abebpabeniemo

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Q: Is there a narration, which documents that Rasulullah Sallallaahu Alayhi wasallam ever performed an Ibadat like reciting Qur'an, and asking Allah to forward the reward to any of his deceased relatives?

[/B]
JazakAllah akhi for the answer...
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Old 07-14-2011, 06:30 PM   #5
samanthalueus

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Q: Is there a narration, which documents that Rasulullah Sallallaahu Alayhi wasallam ever performed an Ibadat like reciting Qur'an, and asking Allah to forward the reward to any of his deceased relatives?

A: Isaal-e-Sawaab (to perform a virtuous act and grant the reward to any person, alive or deceased) is permissible and in fact (Mustahabb) meritorious.

There are basically 2 forms of Isaal-e-Sawaab:

1. The conveying of the reward of charitable deeds.
2. The conveying of the reward of physical deeds that do not entail wealth, e.g. Salaat, fasting, Dhikr, recitation of the holy Qur'an, Tawaaf of the Ka'abah, etc.

The first form is unanimously acceptable by the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah. The second form is correct according to the Hanafi and Hanbali Madhab and several Shaafi'ee and Maaliki scholars as well.

As for the reward of Du'aa (which is separate from the above), there is also unanimity of the scholars in its reward reaching and benefiting the deceased. (refer al-Azkaar of Imaam Nawawi)

Hafiz ibnul Qayyim (RA) states that if one accepts the charitable form of Isaal-e-Sawaab and refutes the physical form, it would be said to him: 'What is the proof to show that the recitation of the holy Qur'aan does not reach the deceased?'

And Allamah Qurtubi states, 'Just as the reward of charitable deeds benefit the deceased, similarly, the recitation of the holy Qur'aan, Du'aa and Isghtifaar also do the same, because all of these are regarded as Sadaqah (charity) in Shari'ah.' (al-Tazkirah pg.71)

He, thereafter, mentioned 2 narrations recorded in Sahih Muslim which prove that even Salaat and Dhikr of Allah (Tasbeeh, Takbeer and Tahleel) were all classified as Sadaqah by Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). Hence, there remains no dispute in whether the reward of Qur'aanic recital benefits and deceased or not.

Besides the above, we will now for academic reasons, mention some proofs that substantiate both forms of Isaal-e-Sawaab.

1. 1. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) slaughtered sheep during his farewell Hajj and made intention for himself and all those (alive, deceased and to come) who bring faith on his prophethood. (Sahih Bukhari)
2. Imaam Bukhari has reported on the authority of Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Abbaas (Radhiallaahu Anhu) that Sayyiduna Sa'ad ibn Ubaadah (Radhiallaahu Anhu) was away when his mother passed away. When he returned, he asked Rasulullah, 'Will it be of any benefit if I give charity on her behalf?' Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) replied in the affirmative. (Sahih Bukhari Hadith2762)

Hafiz ibn Hajar al-Asqalaani (RA) states in his monumental commentary of Sahih Bukhari entitled, 'Fath al-Bari', 'This Hadith proves the permissibility of charity on behalf of the deceased and that the reward will reach him.' (Fath al-Baari vol.5 pg.477 Hadith2761)
3. Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Abbaas (Radhiallaahu Anhu) reports a man once asked Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), 'O Prophet of Allah! My father has passed away and he did not perform Hajj, can I perform Hajj on his behalf?' Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) enquired of him, 'If your father had any debt, would you have paid it.?' The man replied, 'Yes.' Upon this, Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, 'In that case, the Deen of Allah has more right.' (Sunan Nasaaie Hadith26331)
4. A separate incident of a similar nature has been recorded by Imaam Bukhari in his Sahih (Hadith6698). Hafiz ibn Qayyim (RA), the famous student of Hafiz ibn Taymiyah (RA), after quoting the above Ahaadith, states: 'These quotations all concur with the fact that when the living carry out any deed on behalf of the deceased, the reward will reach him (benefit him).' (Kitaab Ruh pg.161)
5. Sayyiduna al-Lajlaaj (Radhiallaahu Anhu), a companion of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), had bequested his son that after he leaves this world, he should recite the beginning and end of Surah al-Baqarah at the head side of his grave. Sayyiduna al-Lajlaaj (Radhiallaahu Anhu) then mentioned that he heard this from Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). (al-Mu'jamul Kabeer of Imaam Tabrani; Hafiz Haythami has regarded the narrators of this tradition as reliable - refer Majmauz-zawaaid vol.3 pg.44)
6. Such has also been recorded to be the practice of Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Umar (Radhiallaahu Anhu). (Sunan al-Kubra of Imaam Bayhaqi vol.4 pg.56). This narration has been classified as Hasan (sound) by Imaam Nawawiy and Hafiz ibn Hajar (RA). (al-Azkaar pg.212 Hadith493; al-Futuhaat al-Rabbaaniyya vol.3 pg.194)
7. Allaamah al-Qurtubi [ra] states that, 'Some of our Ulama have based the permissibility of Isaal-e-Sawaab of the recitation of the Qur'aan on the Hadith of Sahih Bukhari (Hadith216, 1361) and Sahih Muslim wherein there is mention of Rasulullah [Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] placing fresh branches on 2 graves and He [Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] said, 'Perhaps their punishment will be lightened through it as long as the branches do not dry up.' (The Ulama explain the reason for this to be the Tasbeeh that those fresh branches will recite).

Allaamah al-Qurtubi further states, 'If the Tasbeeh of trees can benefit the deceased, then why not the recitation of the Qur'aan by a believer in Allah?' (Al-Tazkirah pg.70)

Hafiz ibn Hajar (RA) has mentioned in a reply to a query of whether the reward of recitation of the Qur'aan reaches the deceased, that; it is Mustahabb (meritorious) for one to do this form of (Isaal-e-Sawaab) abundantly. (refer Tawdehul Bayaan li wusooli thawaabil Qur'aan of Shaykh Abdullah Siddique al-Ghumariy pg.2) Besides these there are numerous other narrations of this nature.

It thus becomes abundantly clear through the abovementioned Ahaadith that Isaal-e-Sawaab is totally permissible in all it's forms and is in fact a very virtuous deed. This is the view of the overwhelming majority of the classical scholars (Muhadditheen and Fuqahaa) of Islam. (refer Kitaab al-Rooh of ibn Qayyim pg.153; Fathul Baari vol.5 pg.477 Hadith2761; Sharhus-Sudoor of Allamah Suyuti pgs.402, 403 Dar ibn Kathir; al-Hidaaya vol.1 pg.296-297; Fathul Qadeer vol.3 pg.65-66; Shaami vol.2 pg.243 - HM Saeed)

If after understanding the above, one still denies the validity of the physical form of Isaal-e-Sawab, then the following method can in no circumstance be refuted. And that is that after one carries out a physical form of worship (i.e. Salat, fasting, recitation of the holy Qur'aan, etc.), he should make a Du'aa to Almighty Allah that Allah, firstly, accepts this noble deed and he should thereafter ask Allah to grant the reward to so and so person. In this way, if Allah accepts the Du'aa, the reward will automatically be conveyed to that specific person alive or deceased.

This method has been prescribed by great scholars like Imaam Nawawi and Hafiz ibn Hajar so as to remove all differences of opinion. We have already mentioned that there is no doubt in the deceased benefiting from the Du'aas of the living. In a narration of Sahih Muslim, Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) has mentioned that one the three things that will benefit the deceased is the Du'aa of his pious children. (Sahih Muslim pg.4199)

Lastly, we would like to mention that this Mas-alah (issue) is not something connect to beliefs, instead it is a Faraaidh (secondary) issue which entails a difference of opinion as well. (Fatawa ibnus salaah vol.1 pg.149). Hence, no one can claim that either part is guilty of perpetrating an act of Bid'ah (innovation), bearing in mind that the majority of the scholars accept all forms of Isaal-e-Sawaab. (refer Kitaab al-Ruh)

The incident of Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal has been recorded by Imaam Abu Bakr al-Khallaal in his Kitaabul Jaami as well as in his booklet entitled, 'Amr bil Ma'roof Wa Nahy anil Munkar, and according to this, Imaam Ahmad had approved of the recitation of the beginning and end of Surah al-Baqarah (refer Atharul Hadith of al-Muhaddith Shaykh Muhammad Awwaamah pgs.162-163)

As for your specific query of the validity of reciting the Qur'aan from the homes, it will suffice to say that there is no difference - in this instance - between recital in the graveyard and in the homes, just as there is no difference in making Du'aa for the deceased in the graveyard or from the home. And allow us to ask the question, what is the proof for the act of reciting from home and dedicating its reward to the deceased being void and incorrect?

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best
Moulana Muhammad ibn Moulana Haroon Abassommar
FACULTY OF SPECIALTY IN HADITH
CHECKED AND APPROVED: Mufti Ebrahim Desai
Assalamoalaikum,

I agree with all of the above methods except reciting of Quran, doing salat and fast and gifting its reward to the deceased.
I am hoping you can guide me further with regards to this as i think i did not fully understand what the ulema you have quoted had to say about these particular issues.

I have not quite mastered the art of extracting individual sentences from quotes on sunniforum so i cant pinpoint in my query where you quoted the hadith regarding the tree branches placed on the graves.

but i am quite astounded as to how placing of the branches is analogous to the Prophet (PBUH) asking us to recite the Quran over graves?i am further astounded as to how the ulema have ignored that the Prophet (PBUH) made a dua for forgiveness for those inside those graves and stated that he hoped that the punishment will cease till a certain time (equivalent to the branches' time of drying up) because of his prayer.
while i dont deny that every thing does tasbih as stated in the Qur'an, but i do not know how the ulema have drawn this parrallel to validate recital of Qur'an and sending its sawab. please enlighten me as to why they have done so and how they reached this decision.

This is the hadith of sahih muslim that clearly states the esaal-e-sawaab that is permissible:
"When a human being dies, all of his deeds are terminated except for three types:
an ongoing sadaqah,
a knowledge (of Islaam) from which others benefit,
and a righteous child who makes du'aa for him."

I hope im not wrong in saying that any random person can ask for forgiveness from Allah (SWT) for a specific deceased, all deceased, entire muslim ummah (present,past and future) and that does not increase their good deeds but removes their sins (if the dua is accepted).
As to the other methods (besides the three mentioned in the hadith above) i will quote the ulema:

- "And that the human being can have nothing but what he has earned (good or bad)" (53:39)

Commenting on this ayah, Ibn Kathir rahimahullaah, said: "Imaam ash-Shafi'ee concluded from this ayaah that reciting the Qur'aan does not benefit the dead, because it is not from their doing and earning. For this reason, Allaah's Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam did not recommend it to his ummah, encourage them to do it, or guide them to it with a text or a hint. Nor was such a thing reported from any of the sahaabah rahimahullaah. Had this been any good, they would have preceeded us in doing it. Matters of worship must be limited to the texts, and are not liable to modifications based on analogies and opinions." (Tafseer Qur'aan il-'Adheem)

- Abu Qataadah rahimahullaah reported that Allaah's Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said: "Among the good deeds that continue to benefit a believer after death are: a knowledge that he taught and disseminated, a righteous child who lived after him, a Qur'aan book that he left as inheritance a masjid that he built, a house that he built for the two wayfarers, a stream that he ran, or a charity that he gave from his wealth during his healthy lifetime so that it would reach him (in rewards) after death." (Ibn Maajah and others. Verified hasan by al-Mundhiri and al-Albaanee). Commenting on this, al-Mundhiri rahimahullaah said: "Some scholars say that the deeds of a human being end with his death. However, since he had caused these things (which are mentioned in the above hadiths), such as the earning of a child, disseminating the knowledge among those who take it from him, compiling a book that remains after him, or establishing a sadaqah, the rewards of these things continue to reach him as long as they continue to exist." ('Awn al-Ma'bud, 8:86)

The article quoted an example of a sahabi:
Sayyiduna al-Lajlaaj (Radhiallaahu Anhu), a companion of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), had bequested his son that after he leaves this world, he should recite the beginning and end of Surah al-Baqarah at the head side of his grave

From the point i just mentioned it is clear that even if we consider this hadith to be authentic, it is clear that the hadith notes the the sahabi had bequested his son. he had caused the action. and he should get the reward in light of the sahih muslim hadith i quoted above.Allahualam. however please enlighten me as to how this case can be used as proof as to the recitation of Quran at gravesites by general people, or even their offspring not bequeathed by the deceased or reciting Quran for eesal-e-sawwab in general. also note that point number '3' quotes a case where again, the son, wanted to do hajj on behalf of his deceased father. how is possible that the case of the son is valid for case of someone who is not a son?im confused as to how this analogy is made.please enlighten me on this as well.

- al-Albaanee says in this regard: "Some scholars have treated a non-child as a child (in this matter). This analogy is invalid for various reasons:

1. It conflicts with the general Qur'aanic texts that make a person's good deeds a condition for entering Jannah. There is no doubt that a parent benefits himself by raising his child and nurturing him. Thus unlike other people, he deserves a reward for this.

2. The difference between the two cases inhibits such an analogy. As in 'Aaishah's hadith, Allaah has made a child part of his parent's earnings - but not of other people's earnings. Al-'Izz bin 'Abdus-Salaam said: "If one does an act of obedience and dedicates its reward to a living or dead person, the reward will not reach that person. And if he starts an act of worship intending it on behalf of a dead person, it would not be as intended - except for things excluded in Islaam such as sadaqah, fasting and hajj." (al-Fatawa 24:2)

3. Had this analogy been possible it would have implied that it is recommended to dedicate rewards to the dead. In such a case, the Salaf would have done this, because they surely used to have more concern than us about doing good. But they did not do it. Ibn Taymiyyah said: "It was not the practice of the Salaf, when they performed a voluntary prayer, fasting, hajj or Qur'aanic recitation, to dedicate the rewards of that to the dead Muslims. Thus, one should not abandon the way of the Salaf, because it is better and more complete." (al-Ikhtiyaaraat ul-'Ilmiyah 54. Note that Ibn Taymiyyah has another opinion contradicting this one, which was advocated by his student, Ibn al-Qayyim in ar-Ruh. That opinion conflicts with Ibn Taymiyyah's known position of rejected qiyas in matters of worship; and it was refuted in a strong and sound manner by Rasheed Rida' in Tafseer ul-Manaar 8:254-270).

- the article mentioned that there is an ijma on the permissibility of reciting Qur'an for esal-e-sawaab.
However "It has been demonstrated by staunch scholars, such as Ibn Hazm (in Usul ul-Ahkaam), ash-Shawkwaani (in Irshaad ul-Fuhul), and 'Abd ul-Wahhab Khallaaf (in Usul ul-Fiqh), that it is not possible to justify Ijmaa' for other than the most obvious matters in Islaam. Imaam Ahmed has indicated this in his famous refutation against those who claim Ijmaa'."
and,
"I have investigated many of the cases for which there have been claims of ijmaa' and found that there is an obvious difference of opinion concerning them. I (Sheikh al-Albaanee) even found (in some cases) that the opinion of the majority of scholars is contrary to the claimed ijmaa'!" (Ahkaam ul-Janaa'iz, 219)."

- this act also goes against the laws of shariah and the Quranic ayat (53:39). you do nothing in this world and people send you good deeds in the hereafter?please note asking for forgiveness for someone may not increase their good deeds but Allah (SWT) in sha Allah forgives their sins. Allahualam.
This is better explained here:
"The danger of holding a wrong belief in regard to this issue has been clarified and emphasized by al-Albaanee: "We do not doubt this wrong belief's evil effects upon one who adopts it. He would rely upon others for acquiring rewards and high ranks (in the hereafter), because he knows that the Muslims dedicate hundreds of good deeds everyday to all of the living and the dead Muslims, and he is one of them; that would then relieve him from having to work hard when others are striving on his behalf!... A more dangerous saying is that it is permissible to perform Hajj on behalf of others, even if there is no valid excuse preventing them from performing it by themselves. This causes many of the wealthy people to drop hajj or other obligations, giving themselves the excuse, "They will perform hajj on my behalf after my death!.. There are many other similar opinions that clearly have evil effects on the (Muslim) societies. It is imperative for the scholars who wish to reform (the societies) to reject such opinions, because they conflict with the texts, as well as the spirit of the Shari'ah.. As for the person who rejects the opinions described above, it is inconceivable that he would ever rely on other people in doing deeds and acquiring rewards. He realizes that only his own deeds can save him, and he is rewarded in accordance with what he himself earns. It is then incumbent that he strives t the utmost to leave behind him good traces which will result in good rewards for him even in the loneliness of his grave - instead of those imaginary good deeds." (Ahkaam ul-Janaa'iz, 222-223)."

The above arguments are explained further at:
http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/aqeedah/0035.htm

Please provide me any reference from an authentic source that states it is explicitly permissible to pray salaat, fast , do dhikr etc for a person who is just a loved one (not a parent) whose vow you are not fuliflling.you are a random person.

Lastly i have an honest question that i ask you to answer honestly:
what do you think is better?
- i ask Allah (SWT) to forgive all the sins of a person who is a loved one (not a parent, but someone i care for). but i ask sincerely.and i ask Allah (SWT) to grant them jannat ul firdaus by His Mercy
- i spend days and nights offering salat,fasting,reciting Qur'an, urging others to do so, doing dhikr constantly and then i ask Allah (SWT) that please give the reward of these prayers to the deceased. Lets assume all salats were perfect with devotion and care and etiquette, all fasts observed all the rules and the dhikr had ikhlaas. in short i am sure the deeds will be accepted.

in which situation do you think the deceassed will benefit more?
should i trust my deeds and their reward more than Allah's infinite Mercy?


Please note that i have not entered into pointless debate just to prove my point right. i want to learn.i however quite strongly believe that recital of Quran or any act of worship and transferring their rewards to the dead is wrong. but i am willing to change my opinion should i be provided answers to my queries. i state again im not a scholar but since you are one i am assuming you will not belittle any mistakes i may have made in writing or by picking random points just to humiliate me. i would really appreciate if you can answer me here so others can learn too in sha Allah. please forgive me if i dont take religious fatwas or beliefs on face value. i ask questions.

Jazak Allah khair.
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Old 07-15-2011, 04:46 AM   #6
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Salam aleikum

There where many questions in your post. Maybe we can discuss them one by one.

but i am quite astounded as to how placing of the branches is analogous to the Prophet (PBUH) asking us to recite the Quran over graves? I think, and Allah knows best, that the analogy is based on the following:
1 A living person is doing an action that benefits the dead
2 This action involves the establishment of dhikr

If dhikr made by a plant benefits the dead, then the reading of the Quran (the best dhikr) will also benefit the dead.
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Old 07-15-2011, 05:58 PM   #7
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Salam aleikum

There where many questions in your post. Maybe we can discuss them one by one.



I think, and Allah knows best, that the analogy is based on the following:
1 A living person is doing an action that benefits the dead
2 This action involves the establishment of dhikr

If dhikr made by a plant benefits the dead, then the reading of the Quran (the best dhikr) will also benefit the dead.
ok answer me this. which would better help the dead?
- dua of forgiveness by the Prophet (PBUH)
- tree branches doing tasbih
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Old 07-15-2011, 07:03 PM   #8
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ok answer me this. which would better help the dead?
- dua of forgiveness by the Prophet (PBUH)
- tree branches doing tasbih
How is this related to reading Quran for the dead?
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Old 07-16-2011, 05:18 PM   #9
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How is this related to reading Quran for the dead?
answer my question please
and yes this is what i had in my original reply that how is any of this related to tasbih if branches or recital of Qur'an?
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Old 07-16-2011, 05:37 PM   #10
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Salam aleikum
I will answer your question when you tell me how it's relevant for the issue at hand.

and yes this is what i had in my original reply that how is any of this related to tasbih if branches or recital of Qur'an? I answered that in my previous post, didn't I?
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Old 07-16-2011, 05:47 PM   #11
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Salam aleikum
I will answer your question when you tell me how it's relevant for the issue at hand.


I answered that in my previous post, didn't I?
okay. the hadith clearly states the Prophet (PBUH) made dua that the punishment of the grave becomes less for the grave dwellers for a certain time which was equivalent to drying up for branches.
He did not say i ask these branches to make tasbih for the dead by virtue of which the dead will have peace for as long as the branches do tasbih and do not dry up.
this is proof that dua should be made on graves only. this is not a proof of recital of Qur'an on graves. this is what i had found amazing that such a stretched parallel had been made
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Old 07-16-2011, 05:55 PM   #12
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Could you post the hadith. I only know about this version:
مَرَّ النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم بقبرين فقال: "إنهما ليُعَذَّبان وما يُعَذَّبان في كبير ، أما أحدهما فكان لا يستتر من البول، وأما الآخر فكان يمشي بالنميمة، فأخذ جريدة رطبة فشقها نصفين فغرز في كل قبر واحدة ، فقالوا: يا رسول الله لم فعلتَ هذا؟ قال: لعله يخفف عنهما ما لم ييبسا " .

There is no mention of du'a in it.
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Old 07-16-2011, 06:09 PM   #13
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Could you post the hadith. I only know about this version:
مَرَّ النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم بقبرين فقال: "إنهما ليُعَذَّبان وما يُعَذَّبان في كبير ، أما أحدهما فكان لا يستتر من البول، وأما الآخر فكان يمشي بالنميمة، فأخذ جريدة رطبة فشقها نصفين فغرز في كل قبر واحدة ، فقالوا: يا رسول الله لم فعلتَ هذا؟ قال: لعله يخفف عنهما ما لم ييبسا " .

There is no mention of du'a in it.
it was posted in the original post.
'Perhaps their punishment will be lightened through it as long as the branches do not dry up.'

how is this not a dua?it is true the sentence does not invoke Allah (SWT) directly by saying Allahumma or any similar phrase but you can see the intention of the Prophet clearly that the punishment be lightened because of his action of placing the branches and 'hoping' Allah (SWT) will lessen the punishment till the branches dry up. this 'hope' is dua.
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Old 07-16-2011, 06:15 PM   #14
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it was posted in the original post.
'Perhaps their punishment will be lightened through it as long as the branches do not dry up.'

how is this not a dua?it is true the sentence does not invoke Allah (SWT) directly by saying Allahumma or any similar phrase but you can see the intention of the Prophet clearly that the punishment be lightened because of his action of placing the branches and 'hoping' Allah (SWT) will lessen the punishment till the branches dry up. this 'hope' is dua.
I didn't see it sorry. Anyway, the word perhaps (ar. la'alla) doesn't indiciate that it's a du'a. Thats a possible interpretation, even though its far fetched. The obvious meaning of the hadith is that the branches will in some way lighten the punishment.
If I give money to someone and say "perhaps this might help him" im not doing du'a, I am saying that I hope that the money will help hin in some way.
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Old 07-16-2011, 06:23 PM   #15
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I didn't see it sorry. Anyway, the word perhaps (ar. la'alla) doesn't indiciate that it's a du'a. Thats a possible interpretation, even though its far fetched. The obvious meaning of the hadith is that the branches will in some way lighten the punishment.
If I give money to someone and say "perhaps this might help him" im not doing du'a, I am saying that I hope that the money will help hin in some way.
or you may give money to someone hoping Allah (SWT) will help him with this. not the money but Allah (SWT). i think you and i have a genuine difference of opinion. i see this as no basis for reciting Qur'an on graves.you seem to do. I do not want to partake in any activity over which the ulema are divided. I always choose the 'not follow' opinion rather than 'follow' on doubtful issues. however I am hoping mufti abuhajira can answer me someday
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Old 07-16-2011, 06:29 PM   #16
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or you may give money to someone hoping Allah (SWT) will help him with this. not the money but Allah (SWT). i think you and i have a genuine difference of opinion. i see this as no basis for reciting Qur'an on graves.you seem to do. I do not want to partake in any activity over which the ulema are divided. I always choose the 'not follow' opinion rather than 'follow' on doubtful issues. however I am hoping mufti abuhajira can answer me someday
That's fine with me. The only reason I wanted to discuss this was because you wrote:
Please note that i have not entered into pointless debate just to prove my point right. i want to learn.i however quite strongly believe that recital of Quran or any act of worship and transferring their rewards to the dead is wrong. but i am willing to change my opinion should i be provided answers to my queries. If you were honest when you wrote that then at least you changed your opinion about this:
okay. the hadith clearly states the Prophet (PBUH) made dua that the punishment of the grave becomes less for the grave dwellers for a certain time which was equivalent to drying up for branches.
He did not say i ask these branches to make tasbih for the dead by virtue of which the dead will have peace for as long as the branches do tasbih and do not dry up.
this is proof that dua should be made on graves only. this is not a proof of recital of Qur'an on graves. this is what i had found amazing that such a stretched parallel had been made I think that we all agree that the parallel is not stretched at all.
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Old 07-16-2011, 06:39 PM   #17
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I think that we all agree that the parallel is not stretched at all.
i think the parallel has bin way stretched. and i still believe making dua of maghfirat is way better than our meagre good deeds and the rewards we transfer to the other person. the proof that i gave from the ulema who dont believe in recital of Qur'an is based on sahih ahadith and an ayat of the Qur'an. The other party does not have that merit.
Allah's Mercy excels above everything. the same is the case for our own lives too. we do good deeds but they wont earn us jannah. it is Allah's Mercy in sha Allah that will do so.
its sad people may often get so involved in reciting Qur'an and doing good deeds to transfer to the dead they may forget to make maghfirat for that person.

I read a thread about a pious person's death in Makkah recently. the whole thread was dedicated to transferring good deeds to the deceased or to one another. i hope they all made dua of maghfirat for him too.
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Old 07-16-2011, 07:58 PM   #18
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The apparent meaning of the hadith is very clear. "your" interpretation is in need of assumptions. I hope you can admit that, at least for yourself.

There aren't any proofs against this matter. The ahadith that you mentioned doesn't forbid it. The scholars reached this conclusion based on sound qiyas. Qiyas is one source of legislation.

You keep writing about staying away from the doubtful if you are in doubt then leave it, but leave the rest of us who don't harbour any doubts alone. The scholars who allowed it are probably more God fearing than you, don't you think?
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Old 07-16-2011, 10:25 PM   #19
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The apparent meaning of the hadith is very clear. "your" interpretation is in need of assumptions. I hope you can admit that, at least for yourself.

There aren't any proofs against this matter. The ahadith that you mentioned doesn't forbid it. The scholars reached this conclusion based on sound qiyas. Qiyas is one source of legislation.

You keep writing about staying away from the doubtful if you are in doubt then leave it, but leave the rest of us who don't harbour any doubts alone. The scholars who allowed it are probably more God fearing than you, don't you think?
and what about those scholars who did not allow it?u shd read my answer again for what Imam Albani says regarding the Ijma on this one. the word scholar should not be unanimous with piety. otherwise you wouldnt have barelwis, ahlul bid'ah etc.
and i didnt write my view because i wanted to force people to change their thinking. do as you please. i wanted to learn how certain ulema have allowed it and thats that. and also to show the other side of the coin to those reading about this. someone asked 'whats the ruling regarding esal - e - sawab'...well they should know certain ulema have allowed it and certain ulema have not. and why.
regarding leaving you alone, well you can do as you please no compulsion from me. Assalaomalaikum
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Old 07-16-2011, 10:38 PM   #20
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Maybe you misunderstood what I was trying to say. Im not interested in changing your position. You asked a lot of questions and you said that you had an open mind. One of the questions was about al-Qurtubis qiyas. You said that it didn't make any sense (or something similar) You got an answer that showed that the qiyas was valid. After that you didn't want to continue the discussion. If you don't want to discuss thats fine with me, but it's a little bit strange that your honest quest for truth died out after that short discussion don't you think?

There have been a lot of people on this forum that have "none" as madhab and they claim to have an open mind and wants to discuss the evidence. As soon as the evidence doesn't point in their direction (i.e. to the salafi position) their open mind is closed. After a short while they disappear from the forum. I honestly hope you don't belong to them.
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