Does this make sense ? - Taraweeh - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**lalffibra** · 07-22-2012, 06:18 AM

Does the below make sense? If not... why ?

Taraweeh Prayer - What happens in Makkah ? by Dr. Wasiullah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5gpRqSR-io

Below is a translation of his speech..

Question posed: Does 20 Raka'ah Taraweeh take place in Makkah ? Please respond with the reference of hadith.

Dr. Wasiullah Abbas answers in the video: The narration about Makkah is that 20 Raka'ah taraweeh takes place only in Masjid Al-Haram.. only.. But, in other Masjids of Makkah city, alhamdulillah my children (4 sons) are all Huffaaz (memorizers of Quran) and they lead the Taraaweeh prayers. So, In other masjids, 8 + 3 = 11 raka'ah taraaweeh takes place, that's it.. Also, in Riyadh 8 + 3 = 11 Raka'ah taraaweeh takes place.. In very rare cases, maybe someone prays 20, but never heard anyone doing it.. The question is, "Why was 20 raka'ah sanctioned only for (Masjid Al-Haram in) Makkah ?" You might be knowing about King Abdul Aziz ibn Saud. He decided to revive the Sunnah (of 8 raka'ah) in Masjid Al-Haram. And he sought advice from the leading Scholars (who were Hanbali) at that time. And indeed I have experienced that from amongst the Maalikis, Shafi'is, Hanafis and Hanbalis. The Hanbalis have the least ta'assub (fanatical sectarianism) towards their madhab. For example, when I was pursuing secondary education over there. One Hanbali book says, "Nayyarain" (i.e. facing towards the Sun and the Moon and passing urine/stool is not permissible). But a famous Hanbali Scholar said that, this Ruling is against the Hadith and there is no proof of it from Hadith. But, (nayyarain) is only not allowed only while facing the Qiblah. He rejected that Ruling outright. Although the Book was of from his own madhab. So what I mean to say is that, King Abdul Aziz wanted to implement 8 raka'ah taraaweeh, but the Scholars gave a fatwa with wisdom. They replied that, Masjid Al-Haram is a global location where people from all parts of world will arrive. Some people want pray 20 and some people want to pray 10. So, you can authorize two Imams, the first Imam will pray 8 + 2 = 10 and the second Imam will pray 8 + 2 = 10. Whoever wants to offer 10 raka'ah, he can do so and then he can offer 1 raka'ah Witr to leave the congregation. And whoever wants to offer 20 (raka'ah) he can do so. So this is an advise of wisdom for the Haramain (two Holy mosques) and its existence is not bad at all.. And the Imam himself, you can see on Television, I think they show it, the Imam never strictly adheres to 20 Raka'ah. They perform (10 raka'ahs) and then leave.. This happens most of the times.. But, the Sunnah way that we believe is 8 + 3 = 11, and our beloved Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) never prayed more than that. And the 20 raka'ah that is attributed to Umar (radhiallahu anhu) is not true. Because when he ordered Ubay Ibn Ka'ab (radhiallahu anhu) to lead the people in Masjid An-Nabawi, he ordered him to pray 8 raka'ah.. Sometimes, Hazret Ubay ibn Ka'ab (radh.) used to pray 36 raka'ah and this is proven from Qiyaam Ul Layl (marazi) and others. So the Ruling that can be derived is that if you are willing and if you pray 8 + 3 = 11 and leave, then inshallah, you will get the virtue of performing the Sunnah of Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihi wasallam and the virtue of following the Hadith, "Whoever prays during the nights in Ramadan with faith and seeking his reward from Allah will have his past sins forgiven.(Bukhari, Muslim)." But, if someone wants to pray more, then he should not have an aqeedah or belief 20 (raka'ah) is Sunnah. And even me, myself, I am living in Makkah since so many years, sometimes I increased (the raka'ah) and sometimes I decreased, but I never prayed 20.. And I am saying this with full conviction that I deliberately never prayed 20 (raka'ah).. Sometimes, I increased and sometimes I decreased.. And we believe that its allowed to increase the number. Lets say you pray 8 raka'ah and left, then if you go home and feel like praying more.. you can start praying more (raka'ahs), no problem with that. But, to have an aqeedah or belief that taraaweeh is not less than 20 (raka'ah), then this aqeedah is against the Sunnah of Rasoolullah sallallah alaihi wasallam..

Wa Maa Alainaa Illal Balaagh..

Also,

Dr. Wasiullah Abbas is a learned Scholar (PHD) who is giving you evidences to show what exactly is happening in Makkah (Masjid Al-Haram). He is also giving lectures in Masjid Al-Haram since several years.

He clearly asked you to see it yourself. You may also watch the Taraaweeh prayers LIVE on TV. The Imam leaves the place after offering 10 Raka'ah.

This cannot be called as Cheating because the number of Rakah's for Taraaweeh are not fixed in number. You can pray any number of Raka'ah's. 8, 10, 14, 16, 18, 20, 24, 36... anything.. no problem.. The Imams in Makkah are not forcing you to pray 20..

**chujwduperjadzi** · 07-22-2012, 07:25 AM

Does the below make sense? If not... why ?

Taraweeh Prayer - What happens in Makkah ? by Dr. Wasiullah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5gpRqSR-io

Below is a translation of his speech..

Question posed: Does 20 Raka'ah Taraweeh take place in Makkah ? Please respond with the reference of hadith.

Dr. Wasiullah Abbas answers in the video: The narration about Makkah is that 20 Raka'ah taraweeh takes place only in Masjid Al-Haram.. only.. But, in other Masjids of Makkah city, alhamdulillah my children (4 sons) are all Huffaaz (memorizers of Quran) and they lead the Taraaweeh prayers. So, In other masjids, 8 + 3 = 11 raka'ah taraaweeh takes place, that's it.. Also, in Riyadh 8 + 3 = 11 Raka'ah taraaweeh takes place.. In very rare cases, maybe someone prays 20, but never heard anyone doing it.. The question is, "Why was 20 raka'ah sanctioned only for (Masjid Al-Haram in) Makkah ?" You might be knowing about King Abdul Aziz ibn Saud. He decided to revive the Sunnah (of 8 raka'ah) in Masjid Al-Haram. And he sought advice from the leading Scholars (who were Hanbali) at that time. And indeed I have experienced that from amongst the Maalikis, Shafi'is, Hanafis and Hanbalis. The Hanbalis have the least ta'assub (fanatical sectarianism) towards their madhab. For example, when I was pursuing secondary education over there. One Hanbali book says, "Nayyarain" (i.e. facing towards the Sun and the Moon and passing urine/stool is not permissible). But a famous Hanbali Scholar said that, this Ruling is against the Hadith and there is no proof of it from Hadith. But, (nayyarain) is only not allowed only while facing the Qiblah. He rejected that Ruling outright. Although the Book was of from his own madhab. So what I mean to say is that, King Abdul Aziz wanted to implement 8 raka'ah taraaweeh, but the Scholars gave a fatwa with wisdom. They replied that, Masjid Al-Haram is a global location where people from all parts of world will arrive. Some people want pray 20 and some people want to pray 10. So, you can authorize two Imams, the first Imam will pray 8 + 2 = 10 and the second Imam will pray 8 + 2 = 10. Whoever wants to offer 10 raka'ah, he can do so and then he can offer 1 raka'ah Witr to leave the congregation. And whoever wants to offer 20 (raka'ah) he can do so. So this is an advise of wisdom for the Haramain (two Holy mosques) and its existence is not bad at all.. And the Imam himself, you can see on Television, I think they show it, the Imam never strictly adheres to 20 Raka'ah. They perform (10 raka'ahs) and then leave.. This happens most of the times.. But, the Sunnah way that we believe is 8 + 3 = 11, and our beloved Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) never prayed more than that. And the 20 raka'ah that is attributed to Umar (radhiallahu anhu) is not true. Because when he ordered Ubay Ibn Ka'ab (radhiallahu anhu) to lead the people in Masjid An-Nabawi, he ordered him to pray 8 raka'ah.. Sometimes, Hazret Ubay ibn Ka'ab (radh.) used to pray 36 raka'ah and this is proven from Qiyaam Ul Layl (marazi) and others. So the Ruling that can be derived is that if you are willing and if you pray 8 + 3 = 11 and leave, then inshallah, you will get the virtue of performing the Sunnah of Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihi wasallam and the virtue of following the Hadith, "Whoever prays during the nights in Ramadan with faith and seeking his reward from Allah will have his past sins forgiven.(Bukhari, Muslim)." But, if someone wants to pray more, then he should not have an aqeedah or belief 20 (raka'ah) is Sunnah. And even me, myself, I am living in Makkah since so many years, sometimes I increased (the raka'ah) and sometimes I decreased, but I never prayed 20.. And I am saying this with full conviction that I deliberately never prayed 20 (raka'ah).. Sometimes, I increased and sometimes I decreased.. And we believe that its allowed to increase the number. Lets say you pray 8 raka'ah and left, then if you go home and feel like praying more.. you can start praying more (raka'ahs), no problem with that. But, to have an aqeedah or belief that taraaweeh is not less than 20 (raka'ah), then this aqeedah is against the Sunnah of Rasoolullah sallallah alaihi wasallam..

Wa Maa Alainaa Illal Balaagh..

Also,

Dr. Wasiullah Abbas is a learned Scholar (PHD) who is giving you evidences to show what exactly is happening in Makkah (Masjid Al-Haram). He is also giving lectures in Masjid Al-Haram since several years.

He clearly asked you to see it yourself. You may also watch the Taraaweeh prayers LIVE on TV. The Imam leaves the place after offering 10 Raka'ah.

This cannot be called as Cheating because the number of Rakah's for Taraaweeh are not fixed in number. You can pray any number of Raka'ah's. 8, 10, 14, 16, 18, 20, 24, 36... anything.. no problem.. The Imams in Makkah are not forcing you to pray 20..

I do not think there is any sense to be made from it.
Saudi Scholars are not the hallmark of fiqh, if that is what is partly implied i.e. the custodian consulted with scholars therefore that is the correct methodology.
We do not break from the tradition and not because our scholars are ignorant but because the knowledge of this is preserved and new defined interpretations on century practices need not be opened up.....move along

**Blaxastij** · 07-22-2012, 11:45 AM

I do not think there is any sense to be made from it.
Saudi Scholars are not the hallmark of fiqh, if that is what is partly implied i.e. the custodian consulted with scholars therefore that is the correct methodology.
We do not break from the tradition and not because our scholars are ignorant but because the knowledge of this is preserved and new defined interpretations on century practices need not be opened up.....move along

Sure, but can you / someone to confirm the authenticity and factuality of the explainationand if it falls in the understanding of support of 8 Rakats of Taraweeh.

**Zdmlscid** · 07-22-2012, 11:50 AM

Tarweeh is 20 Rakat, according to Imam Abu Hanifah and the majority of 'Ulema.

http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/TaraveehPrayer.htm

**D6b2v1HA** · 07-22-2012, 12:10 PM

Tarweeh is 20 Rakat, according to Imam Abu Hanifah and the majority of 'Ulema.

http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/TaraveehPrayer.htm

jazak.. I am completely satisfied with taraweeh bieng 20, however wanted comments / response to the very explanation of the shaykh in the OP.

**ppfpooghn** · 07-22-2012, 12:24 PM

jazak.. I am completely satisfied with taraweeh bieng 20, however wanted comments / response to the very explanation of the shaykh in the OP.

Honestly, I dont see why it matters. We are Hanafi, taraweeh for us (and majority of other madhaib) is 20 rakahs. There is so much proof for this. I wouldn't waste my time worrying about what this shaykh said.

**zzbust** · 07-22-2012, 01:03 PM

Honestly, I dont see why it matters. We are Hanafi, taraweeh for us (and majority of other madhaib) is 20 rakahs. There is so much proof for this. I wouldn't waste my time worrying about what this shaykh said.

**Maphpseurse** · 07-22-2012, 02:01 PM

Assalamu alaykum

1. 1.6 percent of total muslim population lives in KSA.

2. near to 50 percent of muslim population are Ahnaf. These Ahnaf have high esteem for scholars of haramain, but when it comes to taking knowledge of deen, they look towards Imam Abu Haneefa RA only.

3. The actions of 90 percent muslim population are not on many fatawah given by ulema of KSA, like animal slaughter, moon sighting, taraweeh etc.

A must read to reply the OP.

"Taraweeh More than a Thousand Year history"

Written by Sheik Atia Mohamed Salem

The judge of the High Court in El-Madina

**Roorseprate** · 07-22-2012, 02:45 PM

Assalamu alaykum

A must read to reply the OP.

"Taraweeh More than a Thousand Year history"

Written by Sheik Atia Mohamed Salem

The judge of the High Court in El-Madina

Can you please provide me the link of this book ?

Others: The confirmation to the quotes in the OP can be answered by someone close to the "Haramain".

Note: Some Hanafi prominent scholars have claimed that the Imam/s of Harmain are Mukallid of Imam Ahmed bin Hamble r.e.h.

Hence a response to the OP stands important; failing which the claim that they(Imam/s of Harmain are Mukallid) of the Hanafi scholars will also fail (Watch the latest video posted by Hanafifiqh Youtube Channel regarding Maulana Sudais.).

**CealialactBek** · 07-22-2012, 03:36 PM

Assalamu alaykum

Assalamu alaykum
Can members from SF kindly translate this arabic book on taraweeh:

التراويح أكثر من ألف عام

by

الشيخ عطية محمد سالم

download from here

http://www.almeshkat.net/books/open....t=52&book=3817

**SerycegeBunny** · 07-22-2012, 05:49 PM

There are several flaws and inconsistencies with what was mentioned by Sh. Wasiullah Abbas.

First is his understanding of Ta'assub, He is oblivious to the meaning. Doing Taqleed to a School and respecting differing opinions is not Ta'assub and strictly holding on to the opinions of your School doesn't make one a Ta'assub, even if it is a Scholar holding onto the opinion of a more learned Scholar.

al-Lajnah al-Da'imah (Which was run by Hanbali Scholars and headed by Sh. Bin Baaz)

وإن كان لا يعرف الدليل أو لا يستطيع أن يستنبط الحكم منه؛ قلد من يثق به من أئمة الفقه فيأخذ بما عرفه من أقواله دون أن يغمط غيره حقه أو ينتقصه، وإلا كان متعصبًا

"...if a Muslim does not know the proofs or how to deduce rulings from them, it is permissible for them to follow the example of a trustworthy Imam (initiator of a School of Jurisprudence). They can apply their famous views without refusing to recognize those of other Imams or rejecting them, otherwise, this will be considered fanaticism." (Translation taken from the site itself)

Dr. Wasiullah Abbas answers in the video: The narration about Makkah is that 20 Raka'ah taraweeh takes place only in Masjid Al-Haram.. only.. But, in other Masjids of Makkah city, alhamdulillah my children (4 sons) are all Huffaaz (memorizers of Quran) and they lead the Taraaweeh prayers. So, In other masjids, 8 + 3 = 11 raka'ah taraaweeh takes place, that's it.. Also, in Riyadh 8 + 3 = 11 Raka'ah taraaweeh takes place.. In very rare cases, maybe someone prays 20, but never heard anyone doing it His four Huffaz sons go all over Makkah to lead Taraweeh? in the Masaajid? does that mean they see every single happenings? anyway lets not look at what 21st Century people are doing geographically rather the 1st Century (Hijri) were doing, as they are our role models.

You might be knowing about King Abdul Aziz ibn Saud. He decided to revive the Sunnah (of 8 raka'ah) in Masjid Al-Haram. And he sought advice from the leading Scholars (who were Hanbali) at that time. Sounds like a Madkhali, but anyway, what is his proof that the King wanted to implement 8 Rak'aats? just saying it is not a proof.

One Hanbali book says, "Nayyarain" (i.e. facing towards the Sun and the Moon and passing urine/stool is not permissible). But a famous Hanbali Scholar said that, this Ruling is against the Hadith and there is no proof of it from Hadith. But, (nayyarain) is only not allowed only while facing the Qiblah. He rejected that Ruling outright. Although the Book was of from his own madhab. It is very sad that the Ahlul Hadith have had an effect on some of the Hanbali 'Ulama in Saudi, though i do see that there are still who are trying to revive the Hanbali Fiqh.

They replied that, Masjid Al-Haram is a global location where people from all parts of world will arrive. Some people want pray 20 and some people want to pray 10 Rather it is a Majority and Minute!

So, you can authorize two Imams, the first Imam will pray 8 + 2 = 10 and the second Imam will pray 8 + 2 = 10. The problem is he is twisting words, what proof does he have from these 'Ulama said this? why is he saying 8+2, why not 2+2+2+2+2? the problem is he wants to make it sound like 11 Rak'aat, So by having two Imams leading doing Taraweeh means they are reading 8 Rak'aat each? then my local Masjid has three Huffaz for Taraweeh, does that mean the first that prays the 6 Rak'aat thinks Tarweeh is 6 Rak'aat? swapping Imams for Taraweeh is not a new phenomena, rather it is very ancient practice going back to the Aslaaf.

And the Imam himself, you can see on Television, I think they show it, the Imam never strictly adheres to 20 Raka'ah. They perform (10 raka'ahs) and then leave. Well if they are appointed to perform ten, how on earth can they do more or less? the first Hafiz at my Masjid performs six, does that mean anything?

Secondly, "leave" where? the congregation? the bilaad? the Masjid? they could go "leave" and join the Saffs and performs the rest, possibility?

Lastly the Haram pray a separate 3 Rak'aat Witr, which demolishes their argument, so all in all it is 23 Rak'aat, Allah' Rasool

blessed the Bilaad of the Haramayn, do they think that their fatwa of 8 Rak'aat will get any acceptance (for Taraweeh) in the sight of Allah?

But, if someone wants to pray more, then he should not have an aqeedah or belief 20 (raka'ah) is Sunnah Mad-khali at it's high.

Infact it could be mentioned the other way round, if you had not the Shi'i type of hatred for 'Umar

establishing 20 Rak'aats, then what is wrong with praying 20 Rak'aat, 8 to fulfill Rasulullah

(if for argument sake we agree) and the rest to keep the Sunnah of the Khulafa Rashideen? if your intentions were pure (Insha-Allah it is) you could have killed two bird with one stone, two rewards! But obviously Ahlul Hawaa are nothing more than confused dot com.

To illustrate their "wisdom" they would go to the Masjid and if it is few minutes before Jama'ah they will stand and not sit, (to avoid not praying 2 Rak'aat Sunnah of entering Masjid), because the hadith mentions "when of one you enters masjid he should not sit until he prays two Rak'aats." Subhan-Allah so the opposite from this hadith they deduce is "but stand to avoid the two Rak'aat". Hilarious.

I wonder when these people are going to wake up.

**RildFiemodo** · 07-23-2012, 12:43 AM

There is a good discussion about the taraweeh issue in Mufti Abdur-Rahman ibn Yusuf's book, "Fiqh al-Imam". You can read it here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/100016085/...hman-ibn-Yusuf

**Auzuigcx** · 07-23-2012, 03:29 AM

Regardless..I consider myself as salafi/Sunni/ahlehadith..etc..etc..as long as haramain mosques...Makkah/madinah is reading 20 rakath taraweeh..I will go for it and insh..20 rakath taraweeh will continue till the day of judgement...

**wJswn5l3** · 07-23-2012, 03:54 AM

If the Imam follow 8+2, how can one justify the Qayam-ul-Layl which they offer in the last Ashra'? Also, if the Imam follow 8+2 then the muqtadi in the first saff (whom I assume are themselves qualified scholars), they are there for the whole 20 Rakahs, why don't they change as well?

**Yfclciak** · 07-23-2012, 03:55 AM

If the Imam follow 8+2, how can one justify the Qayam-ul-Layl which they offer in the last Ashra'? Also, if the Imam follow 8+2 then the muqtadi in the first saff (whom I assume are themselves qualified scholars), they are there for the whole 20 Rakahs, why don't they change as well?

good points!

**20170425yuanyuan** · 03-02-2018, 09:59 AM

**20170425yuanyuan** · 03-02-2018, 10:00 AM

**20170425yuanyuan** · 03-02-2018, 10:45 AM

07-22-2012, 06:18 AM	#1
lalffibra Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 373 Senior Member	Does this make sense ? - Taraweeh Does the below make sense? If not... why ? Taraweeh Prayer - What happens in Makkah ? by Dr. Wasiullah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5gpRqSR-io Below is a translation of his speech.. Question posed: Does 20 Raka'ah Taraweeh take place in Makkah ? Please respond with the reference of hadith. Dr. Wasiullah Abbas answers in the video: The narration about Makkah is that 20 Raka'ah taraweeh takes place only in Masjid Al-Haram.. only.. But, in other Masjids of Makkah city, alhamdulillah my children (4 sons) are all Huffaaz (memorizers of Quran) and they lead the Taraaweeh prayers. So, In other masjids, 8 + 3 = 11 raka'ah taraaweeh takes place, that's it.. Also, in Riyadh 8 + 3 = 11 Raka'ah taraaweeh takes place.. In very rare cases, maybe someone prays 20, but never heard anyone doing it.. The question is, "Why was 20 raka'ah sanctioned only for (Masjid Al-Haram in) Makkah ?" You might be knowing about King Abdul Aziz ibn Saud. He decided to revive the Sunnah (of 8 raka'ah) in Masjid Al-Haram. And he sought advice from the leading Scholars (who were Hanbali) at that time. And indeed I have experienced that from amongst the Maalikis, Shafi'is, Hanafis and Hanbalis. The Hanbalis have the least ta'assub (fanatical sectarianism) towards their madhab. For example, when I was pursuing secondary education over there. One Hanbali book says, "Nayyarain" (i.e. facing towards the Sun and the Moon and passing urine/stool is not permissible). But a famous Hanbali Scholar said that, this Ruling is against the Hadith and there is no proof of it from Hadith. But, (nayyarain) is only not allowed only while facing the Qiblah. He rejected that Ruling outright. Although the Book was of from his own madhab. So what I mean to say is that, King Abdul Aziz wanted to implement 8 raka'ah taraaweeh, but the Scholars gave a fatwa with wisdom. They replied that, Masjid Al-Haram is a global location where people from all parts of world will arrive. Some people want pray 20 and some people want to pray 10. So, you can authorize two Imams, the first Imam will pray 8 + 2 = 10 and the second Imam will pray 8 + 2 = 10. Whoever wants to offer 10 raka'ah, he can do so and then he can offer 1 raka'ah Witr to leave the congregation. And whoever wants to offer 20 (raka'ah) he can do so. So this is an advise of wisdom for the Haramain (two Holy mosques) and its existence is not bad at all.. And the Imam himself, you can see on Television, I think they show it, the Imam never strictly adheres to 20 Raka'ah. They perform (10 raka'ahs) and then leave.. This happens most of the times.. But, the Sunnah way that we believe is 8 + 3 = 11, and our beloved Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) never prayed more than that. And the 20 raka'ah that is attributed to Umar (radhiallahu anhu) is not true. Because when he ordered Ubay Ibn Ka'ab (radhiallahu anhu) to lead the people in Masjid An-Nabawi, he ordered him to pray 8 raka'ah.. Sometimes, Hazret Ubay ibn Ka'ab (radh.) used to pray 36 raka'ah and this is proven from Qiyaam Ul Layl (marazi) and others. So the Ruling that can be derived is that if you are willing and if you pray 8 + 3 = 11 and leave, then inshallah, you will get the virtue of performing the Sunnah of Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihi wasallam and the virtue of following the Hadith, "Whoever prays during the nights in Ramadan with faith and seeking his reward from Allah will have his past sins forgiven.(Bukhari, Muslim)." But, if someone wants to pray more, then he should not have an aqeedah or belief 20 (raka'ah) is Sunnah. And even me, myself, I am living in Makkah since so many years, sometimes I increased (the raka'ah) and sometimes I decreased, but I never prayed 20.. And I am saying this with full conviction that I deliberately never prayed 20 (raka'ah).. Sometimes, I increased and sometimes I decreased.. And we believe that its allowed to increase the number. Lets say you pray 8 raka'ah and left, then if you go home and feel like praying more.. you can start praying more (raka'ahs), no problem with that. But, to have an aqeedah or belief that taraaweeh is not less than 20 (raka'ah), then this aqeedah is against the Sunnah of Rasoolullah sallallah alaihi wasallam.. Wa Maa Alainaa Illal Balaagh.. Also, Dr. Wasiullah Abbas is a learned Scholar (PHD) who is giving you evidences to show what exactly is happening in Makkah (Masjid Al-Haram). He is also giving lectures in Masjid Al-Haram since several years. He clearly asked you to see it yourself. You may also watch the Taraaweeh prayers LIVE on TV. The Imam leaves the place after offering 10 Raka'ah. This cannot be called as Cheating because the number of Rakah's for Taraaweeh are not fixed in number. You can pray any number of Raka'ah's. 8, 10, 14, 16, 18, 20, 24, 36... anything.. no problem.. The Imams in Makkah are not forcing you to pray 20.. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-22-2012, 07:25 AM	#2
chujwduperjadzi Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 438 Senior Member	Does the below make sense? If not... why ? Taraweeh Prayer - What happens in Makkah ? by Dr. Wasiullah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5gpRqSR-io Below is a translation of his speech.. Question posed: Does 20 Raka'ah Taraweeh take place in Makkah ? Please respond with the reference of hadith. Dr. Wasiullah Abbas answers in the video: The narration about Makkah is that 20 Raka'ah taraweeh takes place only in Masjid Al-Haram.. only.. But, in other Masjids of Makkah city, alhamdulillah my children (4 sons) are all Huffaaz (memorizers of Quran) and they lead the Taraaweeh prayers. So, In other masjids, 8 + 3 = 11 raka'ah taraaweeh takes place, that's it.. Also, in Riyadh 8 + 3 = 11 Raka'ah taraaweeh takes place.. In very rare cases, maybe someone prays 20, but never heard anyone doing it.. The question is, "Why was 20 raka'ah sanctioned only for (Masjid Al-Haram in) Makkah ?" You might be knowing about King Abdul Aziz ibn Saud. He decided to revive the Sunnah (of 8 raka'ah) in Masjid Al-Haram. And he sought advice from the leading Scholars (who were Hanbali) at that time. And indeed I have experienced that from amongst the Maalikis, Shafi'is, Hanafis and Hanbalis. The Hanbalis have the least ta'assub (fanatical sectarianism) towards their madhab. For example, when I was pursuing secondary education over there. One Hanbali book says, "Nayyarain" (i.e. facing towards the Sun and the Moon and passing urine/stool is not permissible). But a famous Hanbali Scholar said that, this Ruling is against the Hadith and there is no proof of it from Hadith. But, (nayyarain) is only not allowed only while facing the Qiblah. He rejected that Ruling outright. Although the Book was of from his own madhab. So what I mean to say is that, King Abdul Aziz wanted to implement 8 raka'ah taraaweeh, but the Scholars gave a fatwa with wisdom. They replied that, Masjid Al-Haram is a global location where people from all parts of world will arrive. Some people want pray 20 and some people want to pray 10. So, you can authorize two Imams, the first Imam will pray 8 + 2 = 10 and the second Imam will pray 8 + 2 = 10. Whoever wants to offer 10 raka'ah, he can do so and then he can offer 1 raka'ah Witr to leave the congregation. And whoever wants to offer 20 (raka'ah) he can do so. So this is an advise of wisdom for the Haramain (two Holy mosques) and its existence is not bad at all.. And the Imam himself, you can see on Television, I think they show it, the Imam never strictly adheres to 20 Raka'ah. They perform (10 raka'ahs) and then leave.. This happens most of the times.. But, the Sunnah way that we believe is 8 + 3 = 11, and our beloved Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) never prayed more than that. And the 20 raka'ah that is attributed to Umar (radhiallahu anhu) is not true. Because when he ordered Ubay Ibn Ka'ab (radhiallahu anhu) to lead the people in Masjid An-Nabawi, he ordered him to pray 8 raka'ah.. Sometimes, Hazret Ubay ibn Ka'ab (radh.) used to pray 36 raka'ah and this is proven from Qiyaam Ul Layl (marazi) and others. So the Ruling that can be derived is that if you are willing and if you pray 8 + 3 = 11 and leave, then inshallah, you will get the virtue of performing the Sunnah of Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihi wasallam and the virtue of following the Hadith, "Whoever prays during the nights in Ramadan with faith and seeking his reward from Allah will have his past sins forgiven.(Bukhari, Muslim)." But, if someone wants to pray more, then he should not have an aqeedah or belief 20 (raka'ah) is Sunnah. And even me, myself, I am living in Makkah since so many years, sometimes I increased (the raka'ah) and sometimes I decreased, but I never prayed 20.. And I am saying this with full conviction that I deliberately never prayed 20 (raka'ah).. Sometimes, I increased and sometimes I decreased.. And we believe that its allowed to increase the number. Lets say you pray 8 raka'ah and left, then if you go home and feel like praying more.. you can start praying more (raka'ahs), no problem with that. But, to have an aqeedah or belief that taraaweeh is not less than 20 (raka'ah), then this aqeedah is against the Sunnah of Rasoolullah sallallah alaihi wasallam.. Wa Maa Alainaa Illal Balaagh.. Also, Dr. Wasiullah Abbas is a learned Scholar (PHD) who is giving you evidences to show what exactly is happening in Makkah (Masjid Al-Haram). He is also giving lectures in Masjid Al-Haram since several years. He clearly asked you to see it yourself. You may also watch the Taraaweeh prayers LIVE on TV. The Imam leaves the place after offering 10 Raka'ah. This cannot be called as Cheating because the number of Rakah's for Taraaweeh are not fixed in number. You can pray any number of Raka'ah's. 8, 10, 14, 16, 18, 20, 24, 36... anything.. no problem.. The Imams in Makkah are not forcing you to pray 20.. I do not think there is any sense to be made from it. Saudi Scholars are not the hallmark of fiqh, if that is what is partly implied i.e. the custodian consulted with scholars therefore that is the correct methodology. We do not break from the tradition and not because our scholars are ignorant but because the knowledge of this is preserved and new defined interpretations on century practices need not be opened up.....move along Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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07-22-2012, 11:45 AM	#3
Blaxastij Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 507 Senior Member	I do not think there is any sense to be made from it. Saudi Scholars are not the hallmark of fiqh, if that is what is partly implied i.e. the custodian consulted with scholars therefore that is the correct methodology. We do not break from the tradition and not because our scholars are ignorant but because the knowledge of this is preserved and new defined interpretations on century practices need not be opened up.....move along Sure, but can you / someone to confirm the authenticity and factuality of the explainationand if it falls in the understanding of support of 8 Rakats of Taraweeh. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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07-22-2012, 11:50 AM	#4
Zdmlscid Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 384 Senior Member	Tarweeh is 20 Rakat, according to Imam Abu Hanifah and the majority of 'Ulema. http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/TaraveehPrayer.htm Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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07-22-2012, 12:10 PM	#5
D6b2v1HA Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 402 Senior Member	Tarweeh is 20 Rakat, according to Imam Abu Hanifah and the majority of 'Ulema. http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/TaraveehPrayer.htm jazak.. I am completely satisfied with taraweeh bieng 20, however wanted comments / response to the very explanation of the shaykh in the OP. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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07-22-2012, 12:24 PM	#6
ppfpooghn Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 443 Senior Member	jazak.. I am completely satisfied with taraweeh bieng 20, however wanted comments / response to the very explanation of the shaykh in the OP. Honestly, I dont see why it matters. We are Hanafi, taraweeh for us (and majority of other madhaib) is 20 rakahs. There is so much proof for this. I wouldn't waste my time worrying about what this shaykh said. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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07-22-2012, 01:03 PM	#7
zzbust Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 563 Senior Member	Honestly, I dont see why it matters. We are Hanafi, taraweeh for us (and majority of other madhaib) is 20 rakahs. There is so much proof for this. I wouldn't waste my time worrying about what this shaykh said. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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07-22-2012, 02:01 PM	#8
Maphpseurse Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 452 Senior Member	Assalamu alaykum 1. 1.6 percent of total muslim population lives in KSA. 2. near to 50 percent of muslim population are Ahnaf. These Ahnaf have high esteem for scholars of haramain, but when it comes to taking knowledge of deen, they look towards Imam Abu Haneefa RA only. 3. The actions of 90 percent muslim population are not on many fatawah given by ulema of KSA, like animal slaughter, moon sighting, taraweeh etc. A must read to reply the OP. "Taraweeh More than a Thousand Year history" Written by Sheik Atia Mohamed Salem The judge of the High Court in El-Madina Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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07-22-2012, 02:45 PM	#9
Roorseprate Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 659 Senior Member	Assalamu alaykum A must read to reply the OP. "Taraweeh More than a Thousand Year history" Written by Sheik Atia Mohamed Salem The judge of the High Court in El-Madina Can you please provide me the link of this book ? Others: The confirmation to the quotes in the OP can be answered by someone close to the "Haramain". Note: Some Hanafi prominent scholars have claimed that the Imam/s of Harmain are Mukallid of Imam Ahmed bin Hamble r.e.h. Hence a response to the OP stands important; failing which the claim that they(Imam/s of Harmain are Mukallid) of the Hanafi scholars will also fail (Watch the latest video posted by Hanafifiqh Youtube Channel regarding Maulana Sudais.). Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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07-22-2012, 03:36 PM	#10
CealialactBek Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 525 Senior Member	Assalamu alaykum Assalamu alaykum Can members from SF kindly translate this arabic book on taraweeh: التراويح أكثر من ألف عام by الشيخ عطية محمد سالم download from here http://www.almeshkat.net/books/open....t=52&book=3817 Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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07-22-2012, 05:49 PM	#11
SerycegeBunny Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 590 Senior Member	There are several flaws and inconsistencies with what was mentioned by Sh. Wasiullah Abbas. First is his understanding of Ta'assub, He is oblivious to the meaning. Doing Taqleed to a School and respecting differing opinions is not Ta'assub and strictly holding on to the opinions of your School doesn't make one a Ta'assub, even if it is a Scholar holding onto the opinion of a more learned Scholar. al-Lajnah al-Da'imah (Which was run by Hanbali Scholars and headed by Sh. Bin Baaz) وإن كان لا يعرف الدليل أو لا يستطيع أن يستنبط الحكم منه؛ قلد من يثق به من أئمة الفقه فيأخذ بما عرفه من أقواله دون أن يغمط غيره حقه أو ينتقصه، وإلا كان متعصبًا "...if a Muslim does not know the proofs or how to deduce rulings from them, it is permissible for them to follow the example of a trustworthy Imam (initiator of a School of Jurisprudence). They can apply their famous views without refusing to recognize those of other Imams or rejecting them, otherwise, this will be considered fanaticism." (Translation taken from the site itself) Dr. Wasiullah Abbas answers in the video: The narration about Makkah is that 20 Raka'ah taraweeh takes place only in Masjid Al-Haram.. only.. But, in other Masjids of Makkah city, alhamdulillah my children (4 sons) are all Huffaaz (memorizers of Quran) and they lead the Taraaweeh prayers. So, In other masjids, 8 + 3 = 11 raka'ah taraaweeh takes place, that's it.. Also, in Riyadh 8 + 3 = 11 Raka'ah taraaweeh takes place.. In very rare cases, maybe someone prays 20, but never heard anyone doing it His four Huffaz sons go all over Makkah to lead Taraweeh? in the Masaajid? does that mean they see every single happenings? anyway lets not look at what 21st Century people are doing geographically rather the 1st Century (Hijri) were doing, as they are our role models. You might be knowing about King Abdul Aziz ibn Saud. He decided to revive the Sunnah (of 8 raka'ah) in Masjid Al-Haram. And he sought advice from the leading Scholars (who were Hanbali) at that time. Sounds like a Madkhali, but anyway, what is his proof that the King wanted to implement 8 Rak'aats? just saying it is not a proof. One Hanbali book says, "Nayyarain" (i.e. facing towards the Sun and the Moon and passing urine/stool is not permissible). But a famous Hanbali Scholar said that, this Ruling is against the Hadith and there is no proof of it from Hadith. But, (nayyarain) is only not allowed only while facing the Qiblah. He rejected that Ruling outright. Although the Book was of from his own madhab. It is very sad that the Ahlul Hadith have had an effect on some of the Hanbali 'Ulama in Saudi, though i do see that there are still who are trying to revive the Hanbali Fiqh. They replied that, Masjid Al-Haram is a global location where people from all parts of world will arrive. Some people want pray 20 and some people want to pray 10 Rather it is a Majority and Minute! So, you can authorize two Imams, the first Imam will pray 8 + 2 = 10 and the second Imam will pray 8 + 2 = 10. The problem is he is twisting words, what proof does he have from these 'Ulama said this? why is he saying 8+2, why not 2+2+2+2+2? the problem is he wants to make it sound like 11 Rak'aat, So by having two Imams leading doing Taraweeh means they are reading 8 Rak'aat each? then my local Masjid has three Huffaz for Taraweeh, does that mean the first that prays the 6 Rak'aat thinks Tarweeh is 6 Rak'aat? swapping Imams for Taraweeh is not a new phenomena, rather it is very ancient practice going back to the Aslaaf. And the Imam himself, you can see on Television, I think they show it, the Imam never strictly adheres to 20 Raka'ah. They perform (10 raka'ahs) and then leave. Well if they are appointed to perform ten, how on earth can they do more or less? the first Hafiz at my Masjid performs six, does that mean anything? Secondly, "leave" where? the congregation? the bilaad? the Masjid? they could go "leave" and join the Saffs and performs the rest, possibility? Lastly the Haram pray a separate 3 Rak'aat Witr, which demolishes their argument, so all in all it is 23 Rak'aat, Allah' Rasool blessed the Bilaad of the Haramayn, do they think that their fatwa of 8 Rak'aat will get any acceptance (for Taraweeh) in the sight of Allah? But, if someone wants to pray more, then he should not have an aqeedah or belief 20 (raka'ah) is Sunnah Mad-khali at it's high. Infact it could be mentioned the other way round, if you had not the Shi'i type of hatred for 'Umar establishing 20 Rak'aats, then what is wrong with praying 20 Rak'aat, 8 to fulfill Rasulullah (if for argument sake we agree) and the rest to keep the Sunnah of the Khulafa Rashideen? if your intentions were pure (Insha-Allah it is) you could have killed two bird with one stone, two rewards! But obviously Ahlul Hawaa are nothing more than confused dot com. To illustrate their "wisdom" they would go to the Masjid and if it is few minutes before Jama'ah they will stand and not sit, (to avoid not praying 2 Rak'aat Sunnah of entering Masjid), because the hadith mentions "when of one you enters masjid he should not sit until he prays two Rak'aats." Subhan-Allah so the opposite from this hadith they deduce is "but stand to avoid the two Rak'aat". Hilarious. I wonder when these people are going to wake up. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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07-23-2012, 12:43 AM	#12
RildFiemodo Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 438 Senior Member	There is a good discussion about the taraweeh issue in Mufti Abdur-Rahman ibn Yusuf's book, "Fiqh al-Imam". You can read it here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/100016085/...hman-ibn-Yusuf Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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07-23-2012, 03:29 AM	#13
Auzuigcx Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 478 Senior Member	Regardless..I consider myself as salafi/Sunni/ahlehadith..etc..etc..as long as haramain mosques...Makkah/madinah is reading 20 rakath taraweeh..I will go for it and insh..20 rakath taraweeh will continue till the day of judgement... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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07-23-2012, 03:54 AM	#14
wJswn5l3 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 396 Senior Member	If the Imam follow 8+2, how can one justify the Qayam-ul-Layl which they offer in the last Ashra'? Also, if the Imam follow 8+2 then the muqtadi in the first saff (whom I assume are themselves qualified scholars), they are there for the whole 20 Rakahs, why don't they change as well? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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07-23-2012, 03:55 AM	#15
Yfclciak Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 490 Senior Member	If the Imam follow 8+2, how can one justify the Qayam-ul-Layl which they offer in the last Ashra'? Also, if the Imam follow 8+2 then the muqtadi in the first saff (whom I assume are themselves qualified scholars), they are there for the whole 20 Rakahs, why don't they change as well? good points! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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