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Old 03-24-2011, 12:48 AM   #1
evalayCap

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Default a list of deobandi scholars who are athari/salafi in aqida
In light of my previous thread regarding this issue (shaykh riyadh and the aqida of the salaf). please can brothers/sisters help me to compile a list of deobandi scholars, both classical and contemporary, who are pure atharis in aqida i.e they make tafwid al kayfiyya of all the attributes.

1. shaykh abdul hay al lacknawi
2. allamah anwar shah al kashmiri ?
3. maulana shabir ahmed uthmani ?
4. shaykh riyadh ul haq
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Old 03-24-2011, 01:23 AM   #2
amannddo

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In light of my previous thread regarding this issue (shaykh riyadh and the aqida of the salaf). please can brothers/sisters help me to compile a list of deobandi scholars, both classical and contemporary, who are pure atharis in aqida i.e they make tafwid al kayfiyya of all the attributes.

1. shaykh abdul hay al lacknawi
2. allamah anwar shah al kashmiri ?
3. maulana shabir ahmed uthmani ?
4. shaykh riyadh ul haq
Assalamoualaikoum

Brother, I believe that you should remove the word salafi because people may confuse it with the aqida of the present days salafi.

And Allah knows best

Ayaz
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Old 03-24-2011, 01:56 AM   #3
SmuffNuSMaxqh

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What is Athari aqida? It's not something any of the Akabir subscribed too or mentioned.

Deobandi scholars are tafwidis. This is in line with the Maturidi position where tafwid is given preference over ta'wil. We don't deny making ta'wil altogether though.

Being a plain tafwidi is a bit different from the position of Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah. So if this Athari aqidah is what Ibn Taymiyyah had believed in then Deobandis cannot be considered the same.
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Old 03-24-2011, 02:58 AM   #4
Rithlilky

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This late classifying of Deobandi scholars as Athari and equaling their Aqidah to that of today's Salafis is quite confusing to me. Can someone, who's really aware of these scholar's stances, (for example brother Saad) please enlighten us about the facts?
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Old 03-24-2011, 03:38 AM   #5
rarpAcconavox

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If those statements are enough to make one a Salafi in Aqida, then most probably 95% of Deobandis, and in fact all Asharis and Maturidis who made Tafwid, are Salafis. Why not add the members of this board in there as well, as most of us don't make ta'wil? In fact, maybe we should let all the Salafis who abuse this board and its members know of this great discovery, that we are actually Salafis as well! We can even rename the board to SalafiForums!

Then again, that topic was also quoting people like as-Subki, Mulla Ali al-Qari, etc., so perhaps their definition of "Salafi" needs to be looked over.
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Old 03-24-2011, 03:53 AM   #6
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If those statements are enough to make one a Salafi in Aqida, then most probably 95% of Deobandis, and in fact all Asharis and Maturidis who made Tafwid, are Salafis. Why not add the members of this board in there as well, as most of us don't make ta'wil? In fact, maybe we should let all the Salafis who abuse this board and its members know of this great discovery, that we are actually Salafis as well! We can even rename the board to SalafiForums!

Then again, that topic was also quoting people like as-Subki, Mulla Ali al-Qari, etc., so perhaps their definition of "Salafi" needs to be looked over.
Salaam

I think the brother is referring to Tafweed of Kayf/Kayfiyyah instead of the normally understood Tafweed-ul-Ma`naa of which you are referring to.

I would be really surprised if the above listed scholars really held/hold the position of Tafweed of Kayfiyyah absolutely (instead of Tafweed-ul-Ma`naa, whilst negating Kayfiyyah) other than possibly just a difference of terms, if thats what the above scholars held anyway.

Wassalaam
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:11 AM   #7
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you may want to consult my previous post http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...a-of-the-salaf
as not all deobandi scholars do absolute tafwid. some deobandi scholars including classical scholars such as abdul hay al lacknawi and contemporary scholars such a shaykh riyadh ul haq accept the hand, descent, laughter of Allah as attributes and do tafwid of their kayfiyya (howness)
No one denies the yad being a haqeeqah. What we deny is the attributed haqeeqi meaning of the yad. When I say Yadullah is haqeeqi, that is exactly what it means. That it is real , what it is and how it is, is known to Allah. . Even the Asha'ira do not deny the haqeeqi reality of Yad, the ta'weel is along with the ihtimaal while making ithbaat of the haqeeqah as well. It the attribution of haqeeqi meaning to it, that delves into the corners of howness. (Quoting Sidi Abuhajira)
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:41 AM   #8
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Salam

according to Mufti Ebrahim Desai the position of the maturidi madhab, that is to say the favoured, popular, soundest, conservative, orthodox, opinion is that ta'weel is not made and one doesn't go further than simply beleiving what the qur'an says without interpreting in a metaphorical or linguistic fashion.

i don't why that position is being set aside for the atharis only, if that's also what the maturidis claim.
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Old 03-24-2011, 03:13 PM   #9
rarpAcconavox

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Salaam

I think the brother is referring to Tafweed of Kayf/Kayfiyyah instead of the normally understood Tafweed-ul-Ma`naa of which you are referring to.

I would be really surprised if the above listed scholars really held/hold the position of Tafweed of Kayfiyyah absolutely (instead of Tafweed-ul-Ma`naa, whilst negating Kayfiyyah) other than possibly just a difference of terms, if thats what the above scholars held anyway.

Wassalaam


I was being sarcastic, sorry if that wasn't obvious.

My point is that these scholars are most likely mufawwid (of al-Ma`na), and bringing one quote doesn't change anything, especially when the quotes could be understood to mean either tafwid of ma`na or kayfiyyah. If we are to assume that these scholars have the Salafi belief of tafwid of al-Kayfiyya based on these quotes, then they should be willing to assume that the likes of ibn Qudama, adh-Dhahabi should be considered to be mufawwids of al-ma`na based on similar quotes from them indicating so.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:09 PM   #10
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I was being sarcastic, sorry if that wasn't obvious.

My point is that these scholars are most likely mufawwid (of al-Ma`na), and bringing one quote doesn't change anything, especially when the quotes could be understood to mean either tafwid of ma`na or kayfiyyah. If we are to assume that these scholars have the Salafi belief of tafwid of al-Kayfiyya based on these quotes, then they should be willing to assume that the likes of ibn Qudama, adh-Dhahabi should be considered to be mufawwids of al-ma`na based on similar quotes from them indicating so.
Salaam

Ok i see what you were alluding to now;

by that standard "...the likes of...should be considered to be mufawwids of al-ma`na based on similar quotes from them indicating so..." since "...the quotes could be understood to mean either tafwid of ma`na or kayfiyyah."

Thanks

Wassalaam
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:14 PM   #11
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Everyone needs to read this post!
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Old 11-19-2020, 06:48 AM   #12
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