[TeLMgNva]

unfortunately we do need the green light from the kufar since we in a kaafir state. so when we build masjids & institutes we need their go ahead. as far as nikaah goes. are you talking about the MMB. well it comes as a result of poor taqwa not the ulama but the people. with this bill the law of Allah would be enforced in a judicial system. it comes as a result of muslims not following the laws laid down by Allah & as a result others are affected & they hide behind freedom of religion.

My brother, that is red herring!

The law of Allah Ta'ala can never be enforced in a kaafir judicial system which is diametrically opposed to enforcing His Law. The foundational principles of the kaafir judicial system is designed to obliterate Allah Ta'ala from the legislature. Man is supreme in this accursed judicial system.

There are enough detailed booklets detailing the inner mechanisms of this bill which after reading make it abundantly clear that this bill is in clear contravention of Islam and the supposed benefits of it are the same as the benefits received from Alcohol. It is a new canard that Shaitaan has thrown into the field for Muslims to devour.

[zuhraliyana]

looking at whats happening in SA, im more worried about the UK as Muslims(mainly deobandis) do hold the SA model of how muslims are as a shining beacon.

[ppaelkos]

I think you want to re-study the mmb bill.
Don't fall for everything you hear from the ulama behind it. Rather study it yourself....

give an example, I sat with one of the alims & he explained some of it. & it comes from men not being just to the first wife the 2nd wife comes into the picture. men not taking responsibility of their children. people living together after talaq. & making the nikaah binding in secular justice system.

[ppaelkos]

My brother, that is red herring!

The law of Allah Ta'ala can never be enforced in a kaafir judicial system which is diametrically opposed to enforcing His Law. The foundational principles of the kaafir judicial system is designed to obliterate Allah Ta'ala from the legislature. Man is supreme in this accursed judicial system.

There are enough detailed booklets detailing the inner mechanisms of this bill which after reading make it abundantly clear that this bill is in clear contravention of Islam and the supposed benefits of it are the same as the benefits received from Alcohol. It is a new canard that Shaitaan has thrown into the field for Muslims to devour.

maybe you should read up on what all the ulama have said not just the anti MMB loby.

[Njxatsbf]

give an example, I sat with one of the alims & he explained some of it. & it comes from men not being just to the first wife the 2nd wife comes into the picture. men not taking responsibility of their children. people living together after talaq. & making the nikaah binding in secular justice system.

Alright. Where do i start? there's soo many things wrong with the mmb! (1)gender equality (2)the whole inheritance issue (3)the polygamy issue..(4)the nikaah/iddat/talaaq/maintanance story.... why don't you do some research here? its too difficult to explain all thats wrong with it.

[ppaelkos]

Alright. Where do i start? there's soo many things wrong with the mmb! (1)gender equality (2)the whole inheritance issue (3)the polygamy issue..(4)the nikaah/iddat/talaaq/maintanance story.... why don't you do some research here? its too difficult to explain all thats wrong with it.

im not about to read from the group that is totaly against the bill. rather from the group that would engage the courts on the issue.

so this is from the actual bill:

To make provision for the recognition of Muslim marriages; to specify the
requirements for a valid Muslim marriage; to regulate the registration of Muslim
marriages; to recognise the status and capacity of spouses in Muslim marriages; to
regulate the proprietary consequences of Muslim marriages; to regulate the
termination of Muslim marriages and the consequences thereof; and to provide for
matters connected therewith.

this is a step in the right direction. & that is how the bill starts.

gender equality:

3. A wife and a husband in a Muslim marriage are equal in human dignity
and both have, on the basis of equality, full status, capacity and financial independence,
including the capacity to own and acquire assets and to dispose of them, to enter into
contracts and to litigate.

is this a problem for you

like wise alot of the bill has to do with registration of nikaah & talaaq. & a man gets a R20 000 fine for not reporting his talaaq. now this fine is a good thing because i know of a few couples where talaaq has been mentioned many times & they still live as if they maried.

without a doubt there will be problems with the bill but that is why some ulama would rather engage the system instead of boycotting. because if you boycot they will just run the bill anyway.

http://www.justice.gov.za/legislatio...iages-bill.pdf

[Njxatsbf]

Okay fine. Its always good and fair to read both sides of an argument, but anyways read the mmb draft on the mjc website. It's NOT islaamic - And Thats A BIG Problem. Please don't come up with 'the lesser of the 2 evil's' story which everyone usually resorts to, coz you can't participate/promote/propagate haraam if its the lesser of the two evils. I wonder if you realise how absolutely stupid the R20 000 fine is for not reporting a talaaq. First of all there's nothing in the shariah that binds a person to this clause, so we're actually adding to the shariah here. And thats just ONE clause. There's so many others that are even worse.

You can't bind a person to something in the name of islaam, while it has NOTHING to do with islaam.....

[TeLMgNva]

@Brother SASLAMS - Islamically even if one clause is faasid in the bill the whole document is faasid. There are so many clear cut haraam clauses in this bill that to call it Islamic is an insult.

Are you happy that a Muslim could face a penalty (possibly even a jail sentence) for marrying his daughter under the age of 18. This is just one example.

People who wish to abuse the system will abuse the system no matter the Law. Only a court that has full Islamic authority that operates independently of a Kufr Constitution can judge according to the Shariah. This is such a plain matter that I am perplexed as to how people can still support this Bill. The Courts of South Africa are subservient to the Constitution which is considered supreme. Any Islamic Law (of which there are many) which goes against the Constitution is summarily rejected and rubbished. The Law of Allah Ta'ala is made to prostrate to a kufr Constitution. Is this what the MMB proponents wish? If Allah Ta'ala's Law is to be upheld as Supreme and is not made submissive to the constitution then there is no problem as long as the contents of the bill are Islamic.

The Haqq is clear and the Baatil clear. This is clearly baatil.

My brother, I apologise if I have sounded harsh to you. I do not mean to cause hurt.

[tipokot]

Alright. Where do i start? there's soo many things wrong with the mmb! (1)gender equality (2)the whole inheritance issue (3)the polygamy issue..(4)the nikaah/iddat/talaaq/maintanance story.... why don't you do some research here? its too difficult to explain all thats wrong with it.

ASA

Lol sis...u do realise your username is mmb786...or is that just coincidence?

Ws

[Njxatsbf]

ASA

Lol sis...u do realise your username is mmb786...or is that just coincidence?

Ws

I do. lolz! And can you believe it..... mmb saying mmb is haraam/wrong/daft/dumb/silly/crazy/unislaamic/baseless and STILL people dont want to listen. Sighhhhhh!!!

Really no hope for this ummah

[ppaelkos]

@Brother SASLAMS - Islamically even if one clause is faasid in the bill the whole document is faasid. There are so many clear cut haraam clauses in this bill that to call it Islamic is an insult.

Are you happy that a Muslim could face a penalty (possibly even a jail sentence) for marrying his daughter under the age of 18. This is just one example.

People who wish to abuse the system will abuse the system no matter the Law. Only a court that has full Islamic authority that operates independently of a Kufr Constitution can judge according to the Shariah. This is such a plain matter that I am perplexed as to how people can still support this Bill. The Courts of South Africa are subservient to the Constitution which is considered supreme. Any Islamic Law (of which there are many) which goes against the Constitution is summarily rejected and rubbished. The Law of Allah Ta'ala is made to prostrate to a kufr Constitution. Is this what the MMB proponents wish? If Allah Ta'ala's Law is to be upheld as Supreme and is not made submissive to the constitution then there is no problem as long as the contents of the bill are Islamic.

The Haqq is clear and the Baatil clear. This is clearly baatil.

My brother, I apologise if I have sounded harsh to you. I do not mean to cause hurt.

its fine dont worry, i dont remember you being harsh.

yes there would be parts of the bill which are faasid as you mentioned & I mentioned also but therefor the ulama of the one camp wished to discuss the bill with the courts to correct these issues. but regardless if the bill has these faasid points or not we as muslims in a non islamic state will be forced by law to abide by it or leave the country. so isnt it better to engage the government on this.

the bill does not say that he will be jailed for marrying his daughter off. what is states is that if a minor were to get married the wali would have to give concent. if you must know there a schools in the country where girls & boys who wish to be girlfriend & boyfriend get married in school. their parents dont know & one of the students act as an imaam & the boys just gets a few friends & they the witnesses. the day the students feel that the relationship isnt working out they break up & its a talaaq & its all over.

we also have to understand that very big authorities not against the bill but wish to engage the gouvernment.

[ppaelkos]

Okay fine. Its always good and fair to read both sides of an argument, but anyways read the mmb draft on the mjc website. It's NOT islaamic - And Thats A BIG Problem. Please don't come up with 'the lesser of the 2 evil's' story which everyone usually resorts to, coz you can't participate/promote/propagate haraam if its the lesser of the two evils. I wonder if you realise how absolutely stupid the R20 000 fine is for not reporting a talaaq. First of all there's nothing in the shariah that binds a person to this clause, so we're actually adding to the shariah here. And thats just ONE clause. There's so many others that are even worse.

You can't bind a person to something in the name of islaam, while it has NOTHING to do with islaam.....

yes the fine is stupid but so are speeding fines. where in the sharia does it state that you have to pay R500 for going 25km over the speed limit or not wearing a seatbelt, but you do it right, you pay the fine.
& to report a talaaq is necessary or a women will be refused marriage if it cant be proven that her husband has divorced her.

so lets say the bill is passed, what will you do. I think we have a year left for the bill to take effect. are you going to leave the country or are you going or are you going to pay the fines that would come your way.

maybe you dont know what it feels like when you have a child & your wife (islamicly) has to sign a form geving permission for your child to take your name because the home affairs office does not recognise that you married. when you fill in the birth certificate as a muslim you actualy signing on there that the parents were not married.

[topbonusescod]

Can we go back to the OP and discuss MMB on a new thread.

[ppaelkos]

Can we go back to the OP and discuss MMB on a new thread.

its when you spoke about muslims always needing the green light from the kuffar. so i said that we do need the green light since we in a non muslim state.

[opdirorg]

Sometimes when i listen to radio Islam i get a sick feeling in my stomach. The moulana's give such beautiful naseeha on Unity, Disconnection from Dunya, Husnu Dhan and all the other good things we should bring in our lives.

However i cant help but think that they say one thing and do another. The same ulama will gladly accept the invitation to attend the Launch of Al Jamaa (political party) in Joburg, MTN Radio awards, Opening of Nizaamiya mosque and any other such invitation that comes their way.

The most recent abhorrent act is the naat parody fiasco. Each week a beautiful naat is taken and a parody is put together based on useless lahwu. In fact they are taking pure words and making a mockery of it. Why play naats in the first place...oh but i forgot,, Radio Islam is for Indians only (I shouldnt have typed that, its a racist statement to make and i am not a racist. I repent from this negligence)!!!

[Njxatsbf]

Yeah its only for indians and shaytaans. The sad part is that presenters are very knowledgeable and clearly understand right from wrong. You can hear it from their speech. But then they do the opposite of what they preach. I once heard a program where the presenter was talking about hijaab and how even the voice of a female is awrah etc. the program was beautiful but five minutes later the apa was on air speaking in her best voice!
Look at the ramadhaan programs/competitions. In the holy month of ramadhaan radio islaam was encouraging teenage girls and boys to call in on air and debate, in order to win a lousy R60 000! then the ulama will speak about how every second of ramadhaan is precious and must be used for ibaadah. Its terribly confusing.

[ppaelkos]

Yeah its only for indians and shaytaans. The sad part is that presenters are very knowledgeable and clearly understand right from wrong. You can hear it from their speech. But then they do the opposite of what they preach. I once heard a program where the presenter was talking about hijaab and how even the voice of a female is awrah etc. the program was beautiful but five minutes later the apa was on air speaking in her best voice!
Look at the ramadhaan programs/competitions. In the holy month of ramadhaan radio islaam was encouraging teenage girls and boys to call in on air and debate, in order to win a lousy R60 000! then the ulama will speak about how every second of ramadhaan is precious and must be used for ibaadah. Its terribly confusing.

i heard some of those debates. i cant belive that they would had a group against a haraam & group for a haraam & then let them have it off on air. sometimes the topics were not ment to be of this nature but in order to win the debate the speakers would mention things that would make it seem as if they suport haraam.

I hate how radio islam only has about an hour a week for shafi fiqh & even so time is waisted because every minutes the molana presenting the show has to remind the listeners that this is the shafi fiqh program. then nearly every night they have a hanafi fiqh program for two or more hours & not once do they mention that this is the hanafi program. many shafis phone in at the time & are gevin hanafi fatawah.

there is a very strong indian identity on the station & they dont give a chance for any islamic identity other than this exept for the zulu program, which is also at many times an indian program in zulu, since the african muslims were not & at times prevented from developing an african zulu identity. they should actualy change the name of the station to an urdu name so its made clear.