LOGO
Reply to Thread New Thread
Old 10-05-2012, 05:23 AM   #1
tinetttstation

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
470
Senior Member
Default Why does God allow bad things to happen?
This is a common question by the atheist. Why do innocent people suffer or die suddenly? What does the Qur'an and Hadith say? Help please!
tinetttstation is offline


Old 10-05-2012, 05:39 AM   #2
suingincentix

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
461
Senior Member
Default
You may not like it but I find this reliable......

I am not good at quoting but this article fits my understanding but again......... it is only my understanding.
http://muttaqun.com/freewill.html

Qur'an Surah al-Anbiya Ayat 23 " He cannot be questioned as to what He does, while they will be questioned. " (translation by Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan)
suingincentix is offline


Old 10-05-2012, 06:29 AM   #3
yurawerj

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
466
Senior Member
Default
There is no good answer to this. The other issue there is no good answer to is the paradox of free will and God's foreknowledge and/or predestination.
yurawerj is offline


Old 10-05-2012, 06:30 AM   #4
dwestemesse

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
478
Senior Member
Default
Anyone answering this must be VERY, VERY CAREFUL! Some great Ulama have said that speaking about God's nature, without knowledge, is a sin worse than shirk. So PLEASE, PLEASE BE CAREFUL IF YOU ARE GOING TO ANSWER THIS! I WOULD SUGGEST LEAVING IT ALONE ALTOGETHER! In fact I've probably done a bad thing in bumping it up...
dwestemesse is offline


Old 10-05-2012, 06:36 AM   #5
suingincentix

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
461
Senior Member
Default
Anyone answering this must be VERY, VERY CAREFUL! Some great Ulama have said that speaking about God's nature, without knowledge, is a sin worse than shirk. So PLEASE, PLEASE BE CAREFUL IF YOU ARE GOING TO ANSWER THIS! I WOULD SUGGEST LEAVING IT ALONE ALTOGETHER! In fact I've probably done a bad thing in bumping it up...
Main reason I specifically said not to do so and never question this.
suingincentix is offline


Old 10-05-2012, 06:36 AM   #6
yurawerj

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
466
Senior Member
Default
Anyone answering this must be VERY, VERY CAREFUL! Some great Ulama have said that speaking about God's nature, without knowledge, is a sin worse than shirk. So PLEASE, PLEASE BE CAREFUL IF YOU ARE GOING TO ANSWER THIS! I WOULD SUGGEST LEAVING IT ALONE ALTOGETHER! In fact I've probably done a bad thing in bumping it up...
I disagree. It's a perfectly legitimate question by a rational human being. This whole "don't you dare even speak about it" attitude presupposes that the person believes in God to begin with. It doesn't scare someone who doesn't believe in God, but it will give off the impression that it's just a cop-out response.
yurawerj is offline


Old 10-05-2012, 06:47 AM   #7
Rchzygnc

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
366
Senior Member
Default
This is a common question by the atheist. Why do innocent people suffer or die suddenly? What does the Qur'an and Hadith say? Help please!
How would you know that there is something good when nothing bad happens? The conceptualization of abstracts takes place in pairs. The person who has never slept all his life can never determine what waking is. The one who has never been sad all his life can not grasp the meaning of happiness and so on.Without bad , there would have been no realization of good. So first of all the atheist should be thankful to God that he permitted bad things to happen and as a result of that he realized that there is a thing known as good.

Secondly , from the Islamic perspective , all shall be fine after all and all the tears shall be wiped away. Any suffering in this world shall be looked after in the life hereafter. There is a Hadith which says that the Goat with horns , if have hit the Goat without hons , shall be questioned. The all just God shall reward those who innocently suffered in this world. But what about an atheistic perspective of this? In an atheistic world view , Hitler , who annihilated millions of humans was a product of evolution and doomed to death himself. He has gone into in-existence now and shall not be questioned for any of his crimes. The Islamic perspective is a coherent and just world view while the atheistic world view is an unjust and hopeless world view.
Rchzygnc is offline


Old 10-05-2012, 06:53 AM   #8
yurawerj

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
466
Senior Member
Default
I am going to play devil's advocate here.

How would you know that there is something good when nothing bad happens? The conceptualization of abstracts takes place in pairs. The person who has never slept all his life can never determine what waking is. The one who has never been sad all his life can not grasp the meaning of happiness and so on.Without bad , there would have been no realization of good. So first of all the atheist should be thankful to God that he permitted bad things to happen and as a result of that he realized that there is a thing known as good. The counter-argument is, ok, we allow that it is not possible to appreciate good without bad, or suffering without pleasure. But does there have to be quite so much suffering? It's one thing to suffer from a stubbed toe, or even a broken arm, so that you can appreciate being healthy and sound, but is it necessary to suffer from Lou Gehrig's? Then there is the fact that the people who experience extreme suffering are not the same ones who experience extreme pleasure (in this life, at least).
yurawerj is offline


Old 10-05-2012, 06:58 AM   #9
Rchzygnc

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
366
Senior Member
Default
I am going to play devil's advocate here.



The counter-argument is, ok, we allow that it is not possible to appreciate good without bad, or suffering without pleasure. But does there have to be quite so much suffering? It's one thing to suffer from a stubbed toe, or even a broken arm, so that you can appreciate being healthy and sound, but is it necessary to suffer from Lou Gehrig's? Then there is the fact that the people who experience extreme suffering are not the same ones who experience extreme pleasure (in this life, at least).
1. If the argument has shifted from "why suffering" to "why this much suffering" , one can easily say that this much and that much suffering are subjective claims. There is no objective amount of suffering that would be enough to arouse a sense of respect for good with in a human so that we could compare that extent of suffering with that.

2. Islam never promises that all the sufferings shall be paid back equally in this life time so the demand for it is trivial.
Rchzygnc is offline


Old 10-05-2012, 07:11 AM   #10
yurawerj

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
466
Senior Member
Default
1. If the argument has shifted from "why suffering" to "why this much suffering" , one can easily say that this much and that much suffering are subjective claims. There is no objective amount of suffering that would be enough to arouse a sense of respect for good with in a human so that we could compare that extent of suffering with that.

2. Islam never promises that all the sufferings shall be paid back equally in this life time so the demand for it is trivial.
Assuming the original argument has to do with suffering and pleasure in this life, 1. and 2. cannot be used in tandem. If the purpose of suffering in this life is to make people appreciate pleasure in this life, then the person who experiences suffering in this life must also experience pleasure in this life. If a person experiences extreme suffering (e.g. someone born and raised in a North Korean labor camp), but no goodness, then his suffering will have been to no end.

If the argument is that people undergo suffering so that they can appreciate pleasure in the next life, then we need to examine the cases of people who suffer in this life but still go to hell. We also need to reconcile this with the ahadith that the people of paradise will not even remember their suffering in this life, nor will the people of hellfire remember their pleasure in this life. If that scenario is true, then apparently it isn't necessary to know pain to appreciate pleasure or vice versa. So then what is the purpose of it?
yurawerj is offline


Old 10-05-2012, 07:20 AM   #11
yurawerj

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
466
Senior Member
Default
By the way, the answers from Quran and ahadith are:

1. God does whatever He wants; who are you to question it?
2. God afflicts people with harm in order to test their devotion to Him.
3. God afflicts people in order to compensate them for it in the next life.

Of course, the atheist will have problems with all of those responses.
yurawerj is offline


Old 10-05-2012, 08:25 AM   #12
TimoDass

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
641
Senior Member
Default




Nouman Ali khan:

Why Allah is doing this to me, why bad things happning to me? Part:1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ4N3...eature=related
Why Allah is doing this to me, why bad things happning to me? Part:2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG_nf...feature=relmfu
Believing in God- Why do bad things happen? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4tW_...feature=fvwrel
TimoDass is offline


Old 10-05-2012, 08:36 AM   #13
Eeaquzyh

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
428
Senior Member
Default
I have little knowledge of Deen to be honest. But in respect to this question I would point out two things:

1) Mankind has been appointed as vicegerent on this earth and has free will. So to me that suggests that mankind is responsible for the actions which cause pain or suffering to others, and will be called to account in the hereafter.

2) We cannot think of things in the context of man's decision making process, and apply them in the same way to the glory of God's infinite wisdom. For example a natural disaster may cause suffering or displace people - but it may have the effect of causing those with wealth to give charity to the afflicted. Or it may lead to an unseen benefit for a later generation of people. Larger picture is not always visible to those without knowledge (and in comparison to the Almighty we know nothing).
Eeaquzyh is offline


Old 10-05-2012, 09:02 AM   #14
Avoireeideree

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
505
Senior Member
Default


This is very easy to answer:

- now a days we think that fulfillment of needs and necessities is a sign of success. This is not what the Prophet, peace be upon him, taught. Rather, it's the fulfillment of hukm/orders of Allaah that is a sign of success.
- as such, being in a bad condition or apparently difficult condition is not a sign of failure, neither is it a sign of punishment. The Prophets of Allaah (peace be upon them), went through many trial, tribulations, and difficulties, but they were the most beloved to Allaah ta'ala.
- we have to evaluate this life's conditions keeping in mind the existance of Akhirah... sometimes our du'as are not accepted in this world, but when we will see the reward waiting for us for our sabr/patience, we would wish none of our du'as in this world were accepted.

And Allaah knows best.

Avoireeideree is offline


Old 10-05-2012, 07:25 PM   #15
Rchzygnc

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
366
Senior Member
Default
Assuming the original argument has to do with suffering and pleasure in this life, 1. and 2. cannot be used in tandem. If the purpose of suffering in this life is to make people appreciate pleasure in this life, then the person who experiences suffering in this life must also experience pleasure in this life. If a person experiences extreme suffering (e.g. someone born and raised in a North Korean labor camp), but no goodness, then his suffering will have been to no end.

If the argument is that people undergo suffering so that they can appreciate pleasure in the next life, then we need to examine the cases of people who suffer in this life but still go to hell. We also need to reconcile this with the ahadith that the people of paradise will not even remember their suffering in this life, nor will the people of hellfire remember their pleasure in this life. If that scenario is true, then apparently it isn't necessary to know pain to appreciate pleasure or vice versa. So then what is the purpose of it?
I did not say that the sole purpose of sufferings in this world is the appreciation of good (Pleasure will not be a suitable world here) in this world. Ultimately the purpose of this life is a test and this scenario fits very well there. How can one conclude that a person must be paid back in this world (life) for his suffering if he has been made to realize what bad is in this life? I think thats a non sequitur from my prepositions.

From "people who have suffered in this world will also go to hell" i think you mean the Kuffar who have undergone suffering in this world. It will be better if the question "Why should one have to believe in God to get paid for his sufferings in hereafter?" is asked. One can easily address it through the rooting of objective moral values in God and so not believing in God is like thrashing the achievement of objective moral values and so is like contributing to the greater evil and so is a punishable crime with in itself.

"The people of hell shall not remember their pleasures and the people of paradise shall not remember their sufferings". Why does it matter? They would remember it atleast on the judgment day so that they recognize that justice has been done to them. After that , their not remembering does not disturb the concept of objective justice that will take place. Secondly , their is no life after the life of hereafter so even if a serial killer remembers his crimes and realizes his mistakes , what good is that to serve? A memory of the sufferings for those in paradise can be itself painful , Whats wrong if they are relieved of it?
Rchzygnc is offline


Old 10-06-2012, 05:21 PM   #16
UnduttRit

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
368
Senior Member
Default
Shaykh Nuh Keller on suffering:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJkV9...feature=g-vrec

http://www.shadhiliteachings.com/tar...t=article&id=2
UnduttRit is offline


Old 10-07-2012, 02:18 AM   #17
WFSdZuP3

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
428
Senior Member
Default
We should thank Allah for everything he gives us, even the 'bad' it all helps to strengthen us and bring us closer.
WFSdZuP3 is offline


Old 10-07-2012, 01:20 PM   #18
Loolasant

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
443
Senior Member
Default
There is no good answer to this. The other issue there is no good answer to is the paradox of free will and God's foreknowledge and/or predestination.
In Ta'aleem-ud-Deen Hazrat Aqdas Hakim-ul-Ummat Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi Sahab (RA) records that in the creation of bad things there are many secrets and not everybody can fathom them.

In view of that the best thing to do is to submit to the Will of Allah (SWT).

From above statement of Hazrat Thanwi (RA) it is clear that some people can understand the things happening around us. The trick is that all of us should not insist upon understanding everything.

Those of us who understood some of the things happening around us have told us a few things.
Like bad things happen to believers to elevate their stature. Bad things happen to disbelievers to punish them. Good things happen to disbelievers to compensate for their good deeds in this world itself.

And indeed disbelievers will find it difficult to understand these things.

Same is true about free will and determinism.

And I do not think that there is no good answer to these questions - answers are their but the point is whether we can figure them out or not. For example free will versus determinism question is very clear from last two verses of Surah Takweer.
Loolasant is offline


Old 10-07-2012, 01:57 PM   #19
Annewsded

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
485
Senior Member
Default
This question is simple to answer,

Most definitely there are many (why?) questions that cannot be answered, one of the most common being "why can I not see the angel / Jinn / shaitan" followed by the question that you have asked.

believing in Allah swt is in the soul and heart of the true Muslims, look at our cousins the Jewish / Christian and of course now our ummah. All have been tested and inflicted with various loses of the finest people, however you will find the true believer you is affected will still smile and thank Allah for whatever little they may have. May Allah give us this strength

When thoughts come up such as this, remember this is more then likely shaitans whisper. It's a slow and progressive way of taking away faith. So be strong and when you question Allah swt or ask :why: turn to the Quran and when you finish reading the Quran go to the masjid and discuss this with your brothers or sisters

I leave you with a verse from the glorious Quran

Most surely in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day, and the ships that run in the sea with that which profits men, and the water that Allah sends down from the cloud, then gives life with it to the earth after its death and spreads in it all (kinds of) animals, and the changing of the winds and the clouds made subservient between the heaven and the earth, there are signs for a people who understand.
Annewsded is offline


Old 10-07-2012, 06:47 PM   #20
yurawerj

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
466
Senior Member
Default
In Ta'aleem-ud-Deen Hazrat Aqdas Hakim-ul-Ummat Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi Sahab (RA) records that in the creation of bad things there are many secrets and not everybody can fathom them.

In view of that the best thing to do is to submit to the Will of Allah (SWT).

From above statement of Hazrat Thanwi (RA) it is clear that some people can understand the things happening around us. The trick is that all of us should not insist upon understanding everything.

Those of us who understood some of the things happening around us have told us a few things.
Like bad things happen to believers to elevate their stature. Bad things happen to disbelievers to punish them. Good things happen to disbelievers to compensate for their good deeds in this world itself.

And indeed disbelievers will find it difficult to understand these things.

Same is true about free will and determinism.

And I do not think that there is no good answer to these questions - answers are their but the point is whether we can figure them out or not. For example free will versus determinism question is very clear from last two verses of Surah Takweer.
1. If God is all powerful, then he doesn't need to use a means to achieve a goal. He doesn't need to make someone suffer to "elevate his status", but he chooses to.

2. Simply claiming that it's clear doesn't make it so. The last 2 verses of takweer only clarify one side of the issue.

If it were all so simple, we wouldn't have had people trying to answer the problem for centuries.
yurawerj is offline



Reply to Thread New Thread

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:49 AM.
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Design & Developed by Amodity.com
Copyright© Amodity