[Kneeniasy]

Assuming people do not consider it a fard or sunna, but realise that it is something optional, why would giyarwee be considered a bida? People can get together any time, any place to read quran, do zhikr, feed people etc and this is the essence of giyarwee and considering that people usually do not even do it on the 11th of every month (it is just the name that has stuck in the indian subcontinent "giyarwee" which means 11) then why exactly is it considered a bida by deobandis? After all, it is just a gathering of zhikr is it not?

can the la madhabis/ahlul hadith/salafis please stay out of responding to this

[Kneeniasy]

Sorry for asking this so close to ramadhan, but this has become a contentious issue in our area recently so just need some guidance on it.

[actrisski]

Bismillah
walaikum assalam
I too wanted to know the reason behind doing it as I have seen some muslims do this calling as gyaarwee's fatiha where they recite something from Quran and feed the poor and relatives and it is done once per year.

[amehoubFomo]

After all, it is just a gathering of zhikr is it not?

Brother, If it is just zikr gathering then why to name it as "gyarweeh" ? It can also be done without naming

People usually do Gyarwih in the name of Pious people.

[Master_B]

sorry for being a salafi who answered the question. brother there is nothing wrong with gathering together ANYTIME to read qur'an, feed the poor or any other acts of khair, please do this as much as possible, especially in ramadhaan. Im sure noone would object to this.

Allah says:

Help you one another in Al*Birr and At*Taqwa (virtue, righteousness and piety); but do not help one another in sin and transgression. And fear Allâh. Verily, Allâh is Severe in punishment. (Al-Ma'idah 5:2)

so if you want to come together ANY time to do good deeds, then this in itself is praiseworthy.

Im sure the opposition would rotate around two things:

1 specifying one day of the month and giving it a name, as this is part of islam we should do it all the time and calling it coming together for the sake of Allah

2 if there is any unsaviory activities that actually take place at the gatherings.


If your saying that they dont specify a day then the name is not a big issue to be honest so guess it comes down to whether any of the activities are disaproved of. id avise against giving it a name just to avoid confusion or fitnah, just say we're meeting to do x,y,z inshAllah

[Kneeniasy]

Brother, If it is just zikr gathering then why to name it as "gyarweeh" ? It can also be done without naming

People usually do Gyarwih in the name of Pious people.

I do not understand, please elaborate.

sorry for being a salafi who answered the question. brother there is nothing wrong with gathering together ANYTIME to read qur'an, feed the poor or any other acts of khair, please do this as much as possible, especially in ramadhaan. Im sure noone would object to this. you are absolutely correct, but that does not answer my question as deobandis do object to gyarweeh and I want to know why exactly.

[Master_B]

I do not understand, please elaborate.



you are absolutely correct, but that does not answer my question as deobandis do object to gyarweeh and I want to know why exactly.

ok i edited my post to include the only possible reasons I could see

[piramirra]

As-Salaamu 'alaykum

Shaykh Sarfraz Khan Safdar states:

"It is not necessary that a thing which is evil from its inception only be termed a bid’ah. In fact, to add conditions, to change the form or stipulate a specific time for any important act of obedience and Ibaadat which the Shariah has left general, is also regarded as a bid’ah in Shar`i terminology. This is detested in Islamic Shariah."

Allamah Abu Is`haq Shaatbi: “If the Shariah has encouraged a certain act, like Thikrullaah, and then a
certain segment of the Ummah decides to specify this Thikrullaah to be made in congregation and recited in unison, or they stipulate a special and specific time for its execution, then this encouragement of the Shariah in no way can be used to prove this stipulation and specification, in fact, this (stipulating of conditions) is contrary to the Shariah.”

Al-Minhaj al-Wadih- The Path to Sunnat- is a really good book to counter Bidatis.

[Kneeniasy]

As-Salaamu 'alaykum

Shaykh Sarfraz Khan Safdar states:

"It is not necessary that a thing which is evil from its inception only be termed a bid’ah. In fact, to add conditions, to change the form or stipulate a specific time for any important act of obedience and Ibaadat which the Shariah has left general, is also regarded as a bid’ah in Shar`i terminology. This is detested in Islamic Shariah."

Now could you please explain a bit further about why the inception of giyarwee was evil. Was it not started by shaykh Abd al Qadir Jilani although of course it was not termed giyarwee in his time and the purpose was to feed the poor, do tabligh to the gathering, read quran etc. Also, what are the conditions prelavent today which make it problematic as well as what "form" of it is reprehensible today? I have already stated that it is not done just on the 11th, so I don't think time is an issue.

[piramirra]

I dont know if it was started by Shaykh Abdul Qadir Jilani or not , Barelvis are not reliable source for information.

However if one wants to get a group together and for organisation purposes sets a particular day of a month then on that day they go out feed the poor, call people to the Deen, read the Quran and then have meal at the end. Then I dont see why anyone would object to that.

But whats been described is not what people mean when they refer to "giyarwee shareef"...

[Kneeniasy]

I dont know if it was started by Shaykh Abdul Qadir Jilani or not , Barelvis are not reliable source for information.

However if one wants to get a group together and for organisation purposes sets a particular day of a month then on that day they go out feed the poor, call people to the Deen, read the Quran and then have meal at the end. Then I dont see why anyone would object to that.

But whats been described is not what people mean when they refer to "giyarwee shareef"...

Please explain to me what goes on in the giyarwees you have experienced. Because so far the barelvis at our place have agreed to:

1. Not hold it on any particular day
2. No decorations, ridiculous drum beating money hungry molvis etc.
3. Food will be given to people who attend it.
4. The point of it will be to read quran, sing naats, pass on the isale sawaab and eat some food at the end.

now the contention remains in the name. Change its name to Quran kwani (recitation) or keep it as giyarwee. They do not want to change the name what is the basis for the name anyway? Must be an indian sub continent thing as 11 is not giyarwee in arabic. So would it still be a bida to attend such a giyarwee as this where all the reprehensible things have been taken out, and pretty much only the name remains? Is the name really such a big issue?

[SeftyJokipl]

Please explain to me what goes on in the giyarwees you have experienced. Because so far the barelvis at our place have agreed to:

1. Not hold it on any particular day
2. No decorations, ridiculous drum beating money hungry molvis etc.
3. Food will be given to people who attend it.
4. The point of it will be to read quran, sing naats, pass on the isale sawaab and eat some food at the end.

now the contention remains in the name. Change its name to Quran kwani (recitation) or keep it as giyarwee. They do not want to change the name what is the basis for the name anyway? Must be an indian sub continent thing as 11 is not giyarwee in arabic. So would it still be a bida to attend such a giyarwee as this where all the reprehensible things have been taken out, and pretty much only the name remains? Is the name really such a big issue?

The basic purpose of giyarwee is to pass on the isale sawab by reciting Quran and feeding the food. To do this why to fix a particular day when these act can be carried out at any time daily.

You will be reciting some part of Quran daily, after reciting just pass on the isale sawab.

While travelling just recite whatever vesrse of Quran and pass on the isale sawab.

You might see some poor and needy ( not necessary the person to be a muslim ) on the way, do the charity on the spot and if possible provide them a packet of food and pass on the isale sawab.


When These things can be performed daily, then what is the need for grouping people and spending a particular whole day for such an easy task. Isn't this a waste of a entire day for such an easy task?

By doing giyarwee you are making things look big which Allah subhanahu ta'la has made simple and easy.

[Kneeniasy]

The basic purpose of giyarwee is to pass on the isale sawab by reciting Quran and feeding the food. To do this why to fix a particular day when these act can be carried out at any time daily.

You will be reciting some part of Quran daily, after reciting just pass on the isale sawab.

While travelling just recite whatever vesrse of Quran and pass on the isale sawab.

You might see some poor and needy ( not necessary the person to be a muslim ) on the way, do the charity on the spot and if possible provide them a packet of food and pass on the isale sawab.


When These things can be performed daily, then what is the need for grouping people and spending a particular whole day for such an easy task. Isn't this a waste of a entire day for such an easy task?

By doing giyarwee you are making things look big which Allah subhanahu ta'la has made simple and easy.

I am sorry brother arguments like this can never work to speak against things like giyarwee. The reason is that another important purpose of what giyarwee is supposed to cater for is dawa and tabligh. Yes you can do such easy tasks on a daily basis for isale sawaab, but what about the 100's that do not. They only get to read Quran at giyarwee, and that is perhaps the only oppurtunity to give dawah and tabligh to them.

In fact your argument can be applied to so many oher things. for example, doing tabligh is simple, whenever you see someone do tabligh, on a daily basis. So what is the need of an organised like tableeghi jamaat? I am sorry brother, your argument is not very well thought out, or atleast not explained well enough for me to accept it.

And as I have already said, most people do not do it on the 11th, it is just the name that has stuck in the indo-pak.

[Bridgester]

Br Genn Ignore Br Hussain, he considers everything to be bidah, and everything that his hand picked scholars say he will agree with.

Just carry on doing dhikr, help the poor, but MAKE sure you pay attention to completing what is faraaidh rather than other activities.

[SeftyJokipl]

I am sorry brother arguments like this can never work to speak against things like giyarwee. The reason is that another important purpose of what giyarwee is supposed to cater for is dawa and tabligh. Yes you can do such easy tasks on a daily basis for isale sawaab, but what about the 100's that do not. They only get to read Quran at giyarwee, and that is perhaps the only oppurtunity to give dawah and tabligh to them.

In fact your argument can be applied to so many oher things. for example, doing tabligh is simple, whenever you see someone do tabligh, on a daily basis. So what is the need of an organised like tableeghi jamaat? I am sorry brother, your argument is not very well thought out, or atleast not explained well enough for me to accept it.

And as I have already said, most people do not do it on the 11th, it is just the name that has stuck in the indo-pak.

Borther, I am not here to argue. Before I reply more I want to know few thing.

1. Is it wrong or sin to oppose Giyarwee?

2. Is it compulsory to do Giyarwee?

[Kneeniasy]

Borther, I am not here to argue. Before I reply more I want to know few thing.

1. Is it wrong or sin to oppose Giyarwee?

2. Is it compulsory to do Giyarwee?

1. Depends how it is opposed. If it is opposed with baseless allegations and lack of comprehensive understanding of why it is done and what takes place, then the opposition will be causing fitnah. This opposition would then be considered wrong. If on the other hand it is opposed due to clear and unambigous reasons from the sharia (and this is what I am trying to establish in this thread) then no the opposition will not be wrong.

2. Giyarwee is NOT fard, sunnah, or mustahab. at best, with all the conditions of sharia applied, it is mubah.

[WeestDype]

1. Depends how it is opposed. If it is opposed with baseless allegations and lack of comprehensive understanding of why it is done and what takes place, then the opposition will be causing fitnah. This opposition would then be considered wrong. If on the other hand it is opposed due to clear and unambigous reasons from the sharia (and this is what I am trying to establish in this thread) then no the opposition will not be wrong.

2. Giyarwee is NOT fard, sunnah, or mustahab. at best, with all the conditions of sharia applied, it is mubah.

To this day, I havn't understood what is and isn't Bid'ah!

[SeftyJokipl]

1. Depends how it is opposed. If it is opposed with baseless allegations and lack of comprehensive understanding of why it is done and what takes place, then the opposition will be causing fitnah. This opposition would then be considered wrong. If on the other hand it is opposed due to clear and unambigous reasons from the sharia (and this is what I am trying to establish in this thread) then no the opposition will not be wrong.

2. Giyarwee is NOT fard, sunnah, or mustahab. at best, with all the conditions of sharia applied, it is mubah.

Form the way in which Giyarwee is done in some of my relative home I would say It is not bidah It is Shirk.

[Kneeniasy]

Form the way in which Giyarwee is done in some of my relative home I would say It is not bidah It is Shirk.

IN that case, clearly your experience of Giyarwee is different to mine. Could you explain the shirki aspects.

Having said that, what about the way I have explained Giyarwee in this thread. It is clearly not shirk, question is, how could it possibly be a bida?

[Master_B]

To this day, I havn't understood what is and isn't Bid'ah!

bid'ah is when you innovate an act of worship into the religion that holds no basis in the practice of the prophet Salallahu alayhi wassalam.

For example, if I say lets do star jumps for some extra reward, thats bid'ah, why should i make up my own practices when then is nearly an infinite amount of things that I can do based on the qur'an and hadeeth?

Regarding the brother who said this is the same as tabligh, its not the same, as there are sepcific hadeeths prhibbitting making special dates and anniversaries apart from those that the prophet salallahu alayhi wassalam celbrated, so making a set date of the year or month is a bit problematic, but gathering for khair is good, it really comes down to what goes on at the gatherings and if its all legislated in the shariah i.e. all the lights stay on etc