[Hlennisal]

We don't plan on taking in another APBT or any pitbull type dog until we have a house and yard, and until I learn more as far as to what lines I might be interested in, and whether I even want another APBT, or if I'd rather have an Am. Staff or Am. Bully, etc. I'm definitely learning A LOT on here when it comes to the differences, and I still have lots to learn. For the love of dogs I asked if an AST puppy was an Am. Bully hahaha. I've fallen in love with Torque, but in all honestly chances of finding such a good looking Am. Bully up here is gonna be slim. In fact pit bull type breeds aren't common here in the first place!

I have my experience with the pit bulls types, I volunteer at a shelter, have fostered a few pitbull types, and have recently put in an application to work with a Pit Bull breed specific rescue. And mind you I own Diesel So I know a lot as far as their temperaments, their tendency for D.A. and some F.A., I have read the standards for the pit bull types according to AKC, UKC, CKC, and I know a lot of the basic stuff. But when you start getting into specific types of pit bulls, lineages, breeders, and registries... that I'm not all too familiar with.

My main point... if you don't feel like reading the above!


I am still trying to figure out all the navigation on this site and what categories and sub categories I can search though. But I would love personal opinions too...
1. What are some of the better lines for Am. Bully, APBT, and Am. Staffs. [I know that everyone claims to have Notorious, Razor "pit bulls" lol, that's about it. And I know from on here Colby is a good APBT line, but I'm not a fan of the white/brindle spotted dogs.] I'd like to read up on all the different quality lines that are out for each breed.

2. For someone wanting a papered dog, what is your registry of choice when picking an Am. Bully, Am. Staff, APBT? I know there's the UKC, Can.KC, AKC, ADBA... but the AKC does not recognize the APBT. It seems like some of the other registries aren't reliable though... ex: registering Am. Bully as Am. Pitbull Terrier [Just had a lady show my papers with Razors &Notorious by the UKC saying the dog was Am. Pitbull???] I have head people on hear who like the UKC as well though. And I have seen ADBA on here lots, but have also saw where someone said their papers were crap.

3. Outside of attending events, because where I live it will be hard to travel to every event when I don't have a dog participating, what is the best way to find good breeders who are reputable and that I can establish a relationship/contact with? I do plan on attending some events this coming year in British Columbia just won't be able to make them all since it's a 13hr drive. I will probably make it down 3-4 times. If I find an ADBA schedule for any Alberta events I may be able to attend more. I'd like to get Diesel into some fun shows and some good sports!


Mainly I'd love opinions from you guys, and any helpful links! I can google til the sun comes up but I find that the internet is overflowing with a lot of incorrect information about these breeds. So it'd be nice to have some reliable links! And anything off PBC would be nice... I'm trying to find all the history sections etc.


Thanks!

[Filling25]

well. I'm an amstaff lover. however they are not APBT's.
as far as bullies go I'd try and find one like torque, however thats not very likely.

APBT's I prefer the look of the UKC dogs, but a really nicely conditioned ADBA dog is a sight to see!

[tobia]

I love APBT's, but I don't know that I'll ever be at a point where I can say yes to getting one. Wouldn't really fit my training goals, etc. at this point. That said I know exactly who I'd want to talk to for a nice apbt. Its really a matter of getting to know people, meeting dogs, seeing a variety of the dogs from those lines, etc.

I've also heavily researched the breed(s) I am much more likely to go out and purchase in the future for a sport/working prospect. Working line GSD, Malinois, and Dutch Shepherds. I've been reading and researching on the breeds since I adopted Lily 4 years ago. I've talked to many people and interacted with many dogs. I've researched genetics, health testing, etc. and I still feel like I'm only begining to learn all there is to know. That said I do have short lists for what breeders I would feel very comfortable going to.

I wouldn't buy a papered sled dog. I'm not going to show, so what the hell is the point with all the idiot pet owners of the world getting them because they are pretty and then dumping them because they act like what they are.

[Hlennisal]

Yeah I've pretty much been spending my days reading on here and googling the crap out of everything I can... I find google is obviously useful, but at the same time a lot of sites seem mis-informed or just plain clueless. I know there are some breeders on this site, some of who's dogs I have seen and REALLY admired!

Living in Northern Alberta in a town of 3000 or so and the nearest big city being 5 hours away it's hard to find decent breeders, so I already know that when the times comes we/i will be traveling. Just a matter of getting to some events in BC/AB this spring/summer coming up.

I would like to establish a relationship with a breeder from each type of dog over the next year and get to really know the dogs and the differences and finding out which I really prefer. My dream dog would be a Torque built Am. Bully, and I already know I love the APBT, especially well conditioned ones I've seen via ADBA... my plan is to get Diesel looking good this Spring As far as Am. Staff's I have only ever met one, my friend owns one and I wasn't impressed but mind you she does nothing with her dog. No matter which breed I choose I plan on doing shows, events, and sports, etc.

Just hard figuring out were to start. I mean do I just messege some of the breeders on here, or is that rude/annoying? Do I have to wait until Spring when I can travel and get to sanctioned events? Anyone have good sites as far as lineages, history info?

[JulietOreira]

you can message just about any of us and most here are more than willing to help you out on APBT matters.

[maxfreemann]

I'm going through the same thing except with an SBT. This whole finding a well bred dog is a whole new can of worms for me. I don't really have and advice other than learn everything you can and attend some shows and meet some of the dogs and talk to the people there. And ofcourse there are people here on this forum who can help you too.

[Hlennisal]

BrindleXPitt thanks I wasn't sure if it would it would be annoying if just up and pm'd 3-5 different people asking about their dogs and their lines and the registries they prefer lol. Like I said I'm not a 100% newb to pitbull types when it comes to basic knowledge, BUT to well bred pit bull/pit bull types and what makes them, I am fairly new.

SBT... I hear ya, I know what to look for in the breeder when it comes to their appearance of their kennel/set up etc. But when it comes to the dogs and their lines and finding the one I really want, that I'm still figuring out.

If I wasn't interested in showing for Ch. titles ect, I would just find out who bred Diesel [he came from two registered parents but they aren't from the same registry? lol] and get another from them.... he's an amazing APBT and I couldn't have asked for better for my first bull breed. But now that I have spent time reading and then joined this site and I see everyone with different breeds... AST, APBT, Am. Bully, SBT's etc I'm find that I'm interested in more than just the APBT.

Anyone... advice on registries? Which you prefer for Am. Bully, APBT, and Am. Staff? I really like a few of the UKC Am. Staff's I have seen. And I love the look of the ADBA APBT, but I saw someone on here call their papers trash? Why is that, can you not title in ADBA like you can in UKC/CKC/AKC? I have been on their site but it's not like other registry sites.

[moohassinny]

You're trying to find out things that take YEARS of being involved with a breed bring you! A lot of this stuff you just soak up as you go along.

Also, if you are serious, you will probably have to move to be able to go to the shows and other events and breeders etc. Most of this just comes from LIVING and DOING, but you are not in a very good area to become "involved" like you want to be.

---------- Post added at 06:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------

*It seems like some of the other registries aren't reliable though... ex: registering Am. Bully as Am. Pitbull Terrier [Just had a lady show my papers with Razors &Notorious by the UKC saying the dog was Am. Pitbull???]

You HAVE to understand that these dogs that get called "bullies" have UKC registration FIRST! The PARENTS are UKC registered. Even if someone tears up their UKC papers, the DOG is still in UKC records.*

SO, I guess you'd have to find someone that has torn up their UKC papers if that would make you feel better about the "bullie".*

Honestly, I would forget about these things called "bullies" and the people involved with them. In my opinion, you will NEVER be able to sort it all out if you give that whole movement any legitimacy.

---------- Post added at 06:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:49 PM ----------

I'm find that I'm interested in more than just the APBT.

Ya know -- *PICK ONE (other than "Am Bullie"). From the base of having ONE of them -- it's a good place to learn about the others. "Learning" about a breed through Google and message boards ain't gonna get it.

[Hlennisal]

I guess I'm confused about what you're saying about am. bullies? They don't exist or that you have to ignore the fact they are registered as APBT's in the UKC? Are you saying that by ripping up the UKC papers that say APBT and just calling the dog an Am. Bully that's what makes them that breed. I know there's the ABKC... so maybe I should just start there for Am. Bully. I like Pink's Am. Bullies and a few I have seen elsewhere in person and online... and I don't think it's impossible to find someone who is able to breed them in that quality. It will just be harder.

We do plan on moving south to Edmonton, and then landing/settling in Kelowna, BC... like 4 hours from Vancouver where most of the ADBA sanctioned events happen in BC. So that will help me a lot, but for now I am going to do what I can.

Like I said my goal over the next year is to establish relationships with breeders and simply just learn. And continue from there. There's a good chance I won't get my next dog for 3 years/until we end up in Kelowna, could be 3-5years. In the mean time I'm going to make use of EVERYTHING I can that's available to me, and one of those things are the people on this site and the people I will meet at the few events I can attend, and it'll be nice to meet people from here at those events. I've always loved dogs, and I've found a breed type that I love above most others, and I'm a pretty determined person when I set my mind on something.

I realize I can't learn everything via the web. And I realize I am going to have to choose one breed and go from there just having a hard time picking one to start at.

[XzBZB2UV]

I myself prefer ADBA over the UKC and AKC dogs but a good dog is where you find them. I've owned Hemphil/Wilder x's, Hemphill/Wilder x Mayfield/Clouse, Mayfield/Clouse/Jeep, Jeep x, and Clemmon's x dogs. Plenty more lines out there I'd love to get a chance to handle. I've handled a ton of amazing rescue dogs as well and own two possible Am Staff type rescues right now. I wouldn't go out of my way to acquire an am staff or bully but if it's a good dog and landed in my lap I'd feed it.

---------- Post added at 05:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:14 PM ----------

You know actually... there is or was another club. UKC sanctioned that were running shows out of the interior of B.C.. Get Er Done APBT Club of B.C. or something. Not sure if they are still running or not but might be something to look into. I believe there are bully breeders invovled....

[Gakeincidoniac]

An APBT (American Pit Bull Terrier) can be registered by ADBA and UKC but not AKC.
An APBT is the slender, more agile and muscular.... more 'terrier' than 'bully'.
The Colby line is the eldest, longest owned and produced line of true APBTs.

Back in the day a few people wanted to get away from the fighting image of the APBT.
They chose to take their APBTs to AKC to be registered.
The only way AKC would register their dogs was if they changed the breed name to AST (American Staffordshire Terrier) because they didn't want to be associated with fighting dogs.
ASTs usually are a lil' larger, thicker and not as fit as an APBT.

Now this is the part that makes this difficult to understand in which you will find numerous debates over... but here's the jist of it...... everyone has different opinions therefore when you ask a 'simple' question... it may not be so simple after all:

-Some people view APBTs and ASTs as the same exact breed because the APBTs were never bred to any other breed before becoming the AST therefore they have the same ancestry.... they were just called a diff. name because of the registry change. These people see no differences between the APBT and AST whatsoever.

-Some people on the other hand view the APBT and AST as completely different breeds now because APBTs are bred to be game fighting dogs and the AST has been bred for show purposes (to look pretty). Because of the major difference in the reasons that they were bred for... some people feel as though the AST has lost the traits of the original APBT. These people notice all the differences of the APBT and AST and refuse to claim them the same at all because they feel that calling an AST is disrespectful to the true hard working APBTs and APBT breeders.

-And some people (myself included) view them as different types of the same breed. APBTs are the working type and ASTs being the show type. These people notice the all differences between the APBT and AST but because they share the same ancestry they feel they are different types of the same breed.



American Bullies are somewhat new with different looks.
Some standard AmBullys do resemble APBTs or ASTs.
But the other standards look absolutely nothing like an APBT or AST.
This 'breed' has numerous different classes; standard, pocket, extreme, etc. etc.
The standard class dogs are supposed to be APBT/AST bred together.....
The other standards most likely have other breeds mixed in to make them smaller to fit the pocket standard... or larger to make the extreme standard... but the other breeds mixed in never seem to make it in the pedigree.
But some AmBully owners will register their dogs through UKC and ADBA as APBTs (which really pisses off APBT owners).
The correct registry would be ABKC (American Bully Kennel Club).

So when people say 'you need to rip up your dogs papers' etc. they are talking about AmBully owners that have UKC and ADBA APBT papers.

It's pretty confusing especially for new people trying to learn.

Examples of Game APBT bloodlines(ADBA and/or UKC): Colby, Jeep, Sorrell, Wilder, Hemphill, Clouse, Mayfield, Carver
Examples of AmBully lines: Razors Edge, Gotti
There's many many more lines... those are just examples for ya.

[Irrampbroow]

As a throw in to the rip ip the papers things.. I would only show a am bully in the abkc because they don't fit the ukc standards really but I also would never buy a dog with just abkc papers and no ukc.. Abkc is still new until they can show me a 20 year pedigree all bred with just abkc papered dogs I'll stick with dual registries

[Hlennisal]

Zoe, Blaze, Randy... great info all around from you guys, thank you very much. I'm not trying to have info/answers handed to me. But just help getting started and understanding things a little better. Just looking for direction!

Blaze... you really helped me make sense of what you mentioned. I believe I fall under the category "different type of the same breed" for AST/APBT, but that could change as I keep learning and building my own views/opinions etc. But that view seems to make sense to me. I AST always seem much heavier than APBT's but having a lot of similarities too.

Althought the ripping up of papers is still a little confusing haha. So you rip up the papers because they aren't reliable?

[CathBraun]

Ashley, there is a breeder of AST's and APBT's (both UKC and ADBA registered) based out of B.C. whose website I have looked over quite closely and am thoroughly impressed with. Their dogs are thoroughly health tested and proven - they are active in Weight Pull, Conformation Showing, Agility, Dock Diving, Obedience, as well as finding it very important to get all our dogs the CGN (Canine Good Neighbor) title. They DNA profile all dogs and health screen as well (OFA/PennHip Hips, Ataxia, OFA Cardiac, OFA Patellas, as well as CERF eye clearance and they are VERY picky about who gets their pups. They look to be the best type of breeder around, at least judging from the website.

Maybe one day (likely way in the future) I might consider getting a pup from them. Anyway, you might want to contact this breeder with any further questions you may have as it sounds like they would be impressed with someone like you who wants to learn all they can. And they would be right on top of whatever shows and events in BC and likely in Alberta too. Their site is Flatlands Home - Flatlands Kennels .

[XzBZB2UV]

Just to add, having handled both am staff type, bully type and APBT's, I definitely have seen a difference between them and not just looks wise. Their temperaments are different. My am staff type dogs are more quirky and have "special needs" behaviourally while my ABPT's are much more stable, bidable and eager to please. Even their dog aggression is different. Where my APBT's show dog aggression in a prey driven or simply "Yay! Fighting is fun!" way I find my am staff type dogs tend to be more reactive/defensive. Of course this is just my own experience with the differences. I'm sure there are people who have experienced things differently.

---------- Post added at 08:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 PM ----------

So that's where Crinshaw went! I was wondering where his previous owner placed him..

[Hlennisal]

Thanks! I'm on my iPod now but once I'm on my laptop I'll check them out. At this point I'm willing to talk and build relations with anyone in western canada and western/Midwestern USA. I'm from Iowa and saw a few ADBA breeders are there that I may contact as well since I'm there visiting twice a year. But if I find someone I'm thoroughly impressed with a get to know well I'm willing to fly when the time is right. This is a fairly long term goal though so no rush! Likely won't actively look for a pup for at least 2-3yrs up to 5yrs. BUT that doesn't mean I won't get one sooner if I find my perfect dog or if it's just meant to be &im confident that I'm ready for another

[XzBZB2UV]

Although I'd consider even their APBT's Am Staff's. I guess I'm in the second category that Blaze posted!

[Hlennisal]

Thanks Zoe! My friends Am Staff is very very reactive I have noticed! He's the only Am Staff I know so I can't really make a statement about it being a breed trait. Glad you shed some light on that as far as your experience

[XzBZB2UV]

You know... it's ironic... my APBT's all play together like puppies. They are very confident so there's no competition between them or need to prove anything. It's my am staff type dogs that I have to keep separate from all the other dogs as they are defensive and insecure with other dogs. Go figure.

[Hlennisal]

That exactly what my friend said about her am staff! Exact actually, she said he is very insecure with other male dogs and seems to snap at them much easier vs. Female dogs. I guess that might fall under selective DA as well. But he did snap at my yorkie while she was in my lap sleeping this summer yet he lives fine with a pom? LolI find Leon (aka diesel) is very confident and happy go lucky. Would I let him loose in a dog park... No. But I would let him play in a supervised small group of dogs whom I know and know the owners and not worry too much. I love everything about him really which is why I will probably stick to APBT but am/was curious abot ASTs too because I hear they are the same and different. And of course I just seem to have a real interest in the classic Am Bully idk why really, when I see bullies like Torque I just drool haha.