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Old 04-17-2011, 09:30 PM   #1
SypeKifef

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Default American Bandogge question
I stumbled across this website, bandog-slovakia and i read this..

Bandog, Bandogge and American Bandogge Mastiff:

"The name "Bandog"(also known as Bandogge) comes from the word "Banda", which means, "chain." It was used by the Saxons around 1250-1300 in Middle England. The Saxons would leave the dogs on a chain during the day, and release them at night as a guard dogs.The name Bandog was attached to a mix breed of a Pit Bull and an Mastiff mix. Now it has expanded to cover a wide range of mixed breeds, all of them with a Mastiff. The most common mixes that make the Bandog are: a Pit Bull and an Mastino Napoletano, Pit Bull and a English Mastiff. Or other breed programs: a Pit Bull and American Bulldog, Dogo Argentino, Fila Brasileiro, Cane Corso, Perro de Presa Canario, Tosa Inu, Boerboel, Great Dane, Bullmastiff, Dogue de Bordeaux. Bandogs were originally developed to perform a wide variety of duties, such as fighting, pulling, hauling, hunting, rescuing and guarding.

Andante Bandog Kennels, Lucero´s Working Class K9 Kennels, Thunderdome´s Kennels and On/Off Bandog Kennels blood lines are the most well known Bandogs, and have a great temperament with outstanding working abilities. They are believed to be the perfect protection and working class guard dogs available today. Andante´s, Lucero´s, Thunderdome´s and On/Off´s Bandogs are the most famous kennels celebrated for their stable temperaments and outstanding working qualities. Many people believe these dogs to be the perfect protection and working class guard dogs. These dogs could require firm control if not properly obedience trained. As with all dogs obedience training should include a proper socialization program. This should start from the time that they are weaned to avoid problems and having an uncontrollable dog."


Now, my question to those that may know more about this "breed" than i do, isnt the American Bandogge more or less supposed to be APBT x Neo Mastiff or Bull Mastiff? They have listed many dogs including Great Dane..

Now i have an APBT x Great Dane and i refuse to call him anything but that, but it was some what interesting to see that according to this, because its a type of mastiff, he would fall under the same Bandogge grouping.

Now again, i am not asking because i want to name Myles anything else, i am simply asking for knowledge and pure interest.

This page could be just another BS page with many
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:36 PM   #2
Theorsell

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theres more to creating bandogs than just sticking two dogs of specific breeds together.
it is a working dog, so the parents must be proven at their given task. it does sound like several different breeds are being crossed with the APBT.
personally id want to use a Fila...... something that hasnt been ruined by the showring
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:43 PM   #3
SypeKifef

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theres more to creating bandogs than just sticking two dogs of specific breeds together.
it is a working dog, so the parents must be proven at their given task. it does sound like several different breeds are being crossed with the APBT.
personally id want to use a Fila. something that hasnt been ruined by the showring
Right, that i understand. Im more or less confused about the parent make up though. If you have a working (proven) mastiff and you have a proven APBT, would it be a bandogg regardless of what type of mastiff was used so long as it met the criteria of what the breed should be?

I was always under the assumption that there was closer to a standard (appearance) than what i read. If you use any Mastiff type breed, you can result in a similar drive standard but appearance could range any where from lean muscle and 80lbs to bulky, wide and 140lbs if not larger..

---------- Post added at 03:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

Oh and yes, you wouldnt believe how many "breeds"/mutts ive heard of lately using an APBT or Ambully in the mix..unfortunately if people can pawn them off as a breed and sell them..theres no stopping it.

This in particular interested me since the American Bandogge isnt (supposed to be anyway) some money or fashion fad.
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:44 PM   #4
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would it be a bandogg regardless of what type of mastiff was used so long as it met the criteria of what the breed should be?
i think so. if the breeding was done on purpose and produced capable dogs. then theyd be a bandog imo.
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:45 PM   #5
SypeKifef

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i think so. if the breeding was done on purpose and produced capable dogs. then theyd be a bandog imo.
Thats interesting, if this was the general case.. That could prove to be a potential plus. If theres no real solid standard for the A.B than it might never see the AKC or UKC to be show - destroyed.
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:48 PM   #6
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i would use any breed thats gonna pass on some HA as well as size. thats really what youre shooting for, right? APBT intensity in a larger HA dog?
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:54 PM   #7
SypeKifef

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i would use any breed thats gonna pass on some HA as well as size. thats really what youre shooting for, right? APBT intensity in a larger HA dog?
I suppose that would be true in which case, you mentioned the Fila which would be a perfect choice.

Lee as always very insightful, i think i could learn a great deal from you.
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:37 AM   #8
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I am far from an expert, but what APPEARS to be happening to me is:

You take a pit type dog that has a lot of strength and drive. This is crossed with any of a wide variety of molosser type dogs to increase size.

The resulting animal is a "modern" Bandogge.

The term American Bandogge comes when the pit type dog for one half the equation is an American Bulldog. Basically 'American Bandogge' is like 'labradoodle'....a name that denotes the parentage (although the Bandogge half is undefined)

Of course the modern breeds did not exist when the Bandogge title was first applied, rather this was just one of many mastiff-type which eventually split into the traditional mastiff breeds and the ancestors of the bulldog. Also in the original Bandogge human aggression was encouraged, but this trait has been bred out of most existing Mastiff breeds over the past 100 years.
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Old 04-18-2011, 01:35 PM   #9
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I really like the idea of dogs bred for a purpose more than for their "pure bred" status.

It's why I'm such a proponent of cross bred hog dogs and hounds.

I LOVE a dog bred to work in some way, I don't give two shits if it's "purebred". Who cares what it looks like--look what it can DO!

Also a tremendous Fila fan, BTW. I would LOVE to have one someday, but only if I live my dream and own my 5 acres in the woods, lol.

---------- Post added at 07:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 AM ----------

Of course the modern breeds did not exist when the Bandogge title was first applied, rather this was just one of many mastiff-type which eventually split into the traditional mastiff breeds and the ancestors of the bulldog. Also in the original Bandogge human aggression was encouraged, but this trait has been bred out of most existing Mastiff breeds over the past 100 years. Exactly. Bandogge was a title given to any overly aggressive dog that needed to be kept locked up, generally on a chain (which is what bandogge means...band=To tie, bind, or encircle with or as if with a band, dogge= dog), and then released at night to guard the property.

*the factoids were not directed at you guys, I'm sure that came up in your research, but for others that may peruse this and choose not to dig deeper on their own.
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Old 04-19-2011, 11:02 PM   #10
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I really like the idea of dogs bred for a purpose more than for their "pure bred" status.

It's why I'm such a proponent of cross bred hog dogs and hounds.
There are some good and some bad in both methods.

Originally, pedigrees were kept as records and guides to breeding. Dog X had some trait, a dog breeder wanted it and if Dog X was generations dead, would look to his offspring in hopes of find it there. However, if a genetic mutt had that same trait the breeder would have no problem with crossing to the mutt...but he'd record it.

Thing is, the breeder hand an end goal product he was crafting and a pedigree was a tool to get there.

Nowadays a pedigree is just a pedigree. People talk about champions in their dog's pedigree but can't really point out the great features of those champions.

A true breeder looking to craft a specific end goal, to him certain champions would be desired and other champions wouldn't be giving him anything.

Hence breeding with a purpose, especially working dogs, it totally makes sense to not care much about a dog being a 'purebred' and simply cross the best at the tasks.



Now, the FLIP side of that is if you simply look at a handful of working traits and don't mind bringing in outside bloodlines you can loose a lot of great traits and many breeds will simply congeal into one.

Take pointers for instance. The English Pointer is probably the most refined, skillfull, fast, etc etc. If we didn't have a system of breeds and just bred the best pointers, then the German Longhair, German Shorthair, Pudelpointer, Old Danish Pointer, Portuguese Pointer, Vizsla, Wiemeraner, Bracco Italiano, etc etc would all just cross with the very best English Pointers and unfortunately rather than some very distinctly different pointing breeds all those would start to look and act a lot like the English Pointer.

Now, if some flaw was ever found in the English Pointer line, it would have contaminated all those other pointers. Also, what we want our dogs to do change. If the world of pointers all becomes small variants on the English Pointer what happens when people decide they need a better swimmer? Or dogs better able to withstand the cold? Or that as everyone becomes weekend hunters who only actually go hunting twice a month then family companion traits become more important. If everything becomes more like one 'best type' then the people who have those wants can't choose the web-footed pudelpointer because that trait has been lost due to the constant crossing with the English Pointer, the Wirehaired German Pointer no longer has his coat or cold weather durability because that breed has been altered too much, and the ever-friendly Viszla has also been morphed into a fast bird dog only.

Thanks to pedigrees and fixation on purebreds we maintain this wonderful variety and it keeps us from all just shifting with what is popular at one given moment.


Both methods have their place, both methods have their usefulnesses and their pitfalls.
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:54 PM   #11
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Very good points Outsider. You are quickly becoming one of my favorite posters.
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:03 PM   #12
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This in particular interested me since the American Bandogge isnt (supposed to be anyway) some money or fashion fad.
they will probally never be a fad because you can't get papers. and to create a good line takes years and alot of culling to keep a sound temp and one look.
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:33 PM   #13
SypeKifef

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they will probally never be a fad because you can't get papers. and to create a good line takes years and alot of culling to keep a sound temp and one look.
Correct but it doesnt stop idiots from claiming they have a bandogge and breeding creating a cycle of high dollar mutts.
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