[Brareevor]

Hello everyone. I am sort of in a dilemma right now. My boyfriend and I own two male pit bulls that are intact. Chance is 1 year and Fluke is 6 months. My issue is that before we got the boys I told my boyfriend that unless they became testosterone aggressive or anything like that they could say intact. Well we recently have had a few people talk to us about breeding out boys with their females. Yes, they would produce beautiful and great temperment dogs but I still do not want to breed them in fear of their puppies ending up in the pound/shelter/death row. I couldn't live with myself if that happened. My issue is this. How do I tell my boyfriend that I want to neuter the boys? I have told him my fear before but all he says is that they are good dogs and would end up in good loving forever homes. We cannot guarentee that. I really do not know how else to try and change his mind. Any suggestions please? Thanks for the help

BTW: They get along fine with dogs, humans, other animals, and especially each other so neutering them would be more about the puppies aspect than anything else.

[DoctorBretonDen]

Statistics. Tell him that over 4 million healthy dogs and cats are euthanized each year. And go to your local humane societies/animal control/ and see if you can get their statistics, especially with bully breeds. A large majority of shelters do not even adopt out bully breeds, they simply euthanize them even if they're good dogs. And most shelters will state their intake and euthanasia rates relating to bully breeds are extremely high.

Tell him it isn't worth taking that risk. Breeder just "because" isn't a good reason, breeding because "they're good pets" isn't a good reason either.

[xquFzpNw]

It is all up to you if you choose to neuter or not. If you keep them intact, make sure you are responsible, do not let them even have a chance to find a way to get out and roam. Neutered or not, idiots are still going to ask you to breed. You need to be the better person and say no. I, personally, would not neuter a dog unless I had a medical reason to do so, but I am not you. I just don't see a reason to do so, unless you can't or won't be responsible with your dog, as many studies have proven that there are more cons to neutering that pros. If you are intent on neutering, and your BF is intent on keeping them intact, I would say, both of you should sit down together and do research on the pros and cons of both. If the only reason you want to neuter is because people keep asking you to breed him, all I have to say, is that even if he is neutered, you will still have morons asking you. As long as you are responsible to keep an intact dog, go for it.

---------- Post added at 03:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:15 PM ----------

Oh, and please don't breed unless you have proven your dogs are worthy to help improve the breed. By this I mean in some form of actual competition.

[22CreessGah]

Take him to a high kill shelter and let him walk around and see all of the "good family dogs who would never end up at a shelter" who are about to die the next day. That usually helps change minds. bearxfoo has a good post too.

Or, just take them and have them neutered.

[MormefWrarebe]

I agree with Kady... Take him to one of your local kill shelters and take some time there with the dogs. That can change someone's opinion, knowing is one thing, but going and touching and seeing the dogs who are about to die in that awful place is another..

[PapsEdisa]

HOnestly it is so hard to convince someone who has their mind set on something else. Personally I would tell him the statistics and show him informative sites and youtube videos.

I know alot of people think "Oh those wont be my puppies in the shelters," but thats just ignorance.
your husband needs to understand the ramifications of bringing atleast 5 different lives into the world. I say leave the breeding to the professionals.

“For every 1 ‘pit bull’ placed in a loving home, there are 599 killed…that statistic unfortunately does not exclude puppies...”


http://happypitbull.com/get-one/overpopulation/


sorry the reason i am showing the adopt and dont shop video is because I think it will help him see the ramifications of breeding and so he can get why when breeding he will be adding the overpopulation of pit bulls.


hope i helped

---------- Post added at 04:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:56 PM ----------

http://www.flickr.com/photos/texasje...7618066745047/

[MortgFinsJohnQ]

Man, I just don't get what it is with men and breeding dogs, and dogs keeping their balls.

I went through this twice with my bf. He wanted to breed Lucy, because she's a great dog. We both wanted to breed my Saint Bernard. Oh, I mean 3 times. He's still being a bitch about neutering MY Rottweiler. But I'm waiting until he's at least 18 months, he's a year old now, and he wants that dog to lose his balls now, what with all the slurping and boners, and general thick headed stupidity.

Well, I realized, first of all, neither of our dogs have proven themselves. Second, we don't have the money, and we'd want them to be health tested and all that jazz. Third, I'd end up being the one taking care of the puppies, since he can't stand them until they're crate and potty trained. The final thing was, who would get the pups, and who the dogs would be bred to. He wanted to breed Lucy to his idiot friend's 100lb "pit bull", who had some crazy skin issues going on, and actually later died of parvo because he had never been vaccinated (and this guy begged us to breed him with Lucy, saying he'd hold onto her until the puppies were old enough to be sold).

What I really realized is, it's not worth it. Now, your situation is different, since you have male dogs, and wouldn't be holding onto the litter. But it still applies in a way. You care where the pups end up. Also, your dogs aren't fully matured yet, so who knows what their temperaments could be in a few years, or their health for that matter.

Why is it so important to your bf to keep them intact? Does he want to wait until they're fully mature to neuter them, or is it some "if I let them lose their balls, mine are next" thing?

Basically, just put your foot down. Show him the facts, drag him to a shelter. Make him wait a few years until they've proven themselves in some way (competitions, shows), or until they're mature. Take away the chance of him ever seeing you naked again if necessary.

Are they even papered?

[Brareevor]

No, they are not papered which is another reason why we should not breed them. They are still young and he plans on waiting to breed them. I have read that there are more cons to neutering than pros so I get that. They really never get the chance to get out and roam seeing as how we have a fenced in backyard they cannot get out of, and we watch them like hawks since people have been killing, poisining, and stealing dogs in our city over the past couple months. We plan on having them compete in shows/competations as soon as they are of age to train (we have heard not to train until they are 18 months. True or false anyone?). The other problem I have is that we live in Ohio. If you know anything about Ohio we have a BSL that sucks the big one. Even though it is up for revising, people here still have a huge issue with APBT and mixes. We also live close to major cities where dog fighting is getting worse so I would hate for a puppy to end up there. His reasoning is just why do it? Which I understand but my issue is what if. I like to be safe rather than sorry. That is just me. I do understand that by being a responsible dog owner, especially for APBT, you have to always be doing the best for the breed. Which we are doing the best we can at in a town and state that hates pits. By neutering them, in my mind, we prevent that possibly of harming the breed. Like you guys said, we do not know how they will be in a few years, or how their health will be. I just don't want to take the risk of hurting the breeds already injured status in society. I want to help it not hurt it.

[PapsEdisa]

your dogs arent papered...then they cant be shown
training for what sport?

[MortgFinsJohnQ]

It's never too early to start training just so you know. And if they're not papered, they can't be shown, and I think to do any sports they'd need to be neutered anyway.

Honestly, try to explain all this to him. Again and again. If he doesn't get it, tell him you'll pay for it and you're setting up their appointments. If he doesn't get why this is important to you, then he's a dick and you might as well do it anyway.

[sobre]

No, they are not papered which is another reason why we should not breed them. They are still young and he plans on waiting to breed them. I have read that there are more cons to neutering than pros so I get that. They really never get the chance to get out and roam seeing as how we have a fenced in backyard they cannot get out of, and we watch them like hawks since people have been killing, poisining, and stealing dogs in our city over the past couple months. We plan on having them compete in shows/competations as soon as they are of age to train (we have heard not to train until they are 18 months. True or false anyone?). The other problem I have is that we live in Ohio. If you know anything about Ohio we have a BSL that sucks the big one. Even though it is up for revising, people here still have a huge issue with APBT and mixes. We also live close to major cities where dog fighting is getting worse so I would hate for a puppy to end up there. His reasoning is just why do it? Which I understand but my issue is what if. I like to be safe rather than sorry. That is just me. I do understand that by being a responsible dog owner, especially for APBT, you have to always be doing the best for the breed. Which we are doing the best we can at in a town and state that hates pits. By neutering them, in my mind, we prevent that possibly of harming the breed. Like you guys said, we do not know how they will be in a few years, or how their health will be. I just don't want to take the risk of hurting the breeds already injured status in society. I want to help it not hurt it.

I am not sure what shows you are talking about BUT your dogs cannot show without papers. you can do FUN shows with a LP but only if they are neuterd.

[boXGWf04]

Just get them fixed, if thats what you want from those dogs. If your man cares about you he will respect your opinion of not wanting to have a litter of puppies blood on your hands. Most pit bulls and dogs in general for that matter go through several homes generally, go through abuse go through messed up situations etc before finding the one home who cares...if they even get that far in life. Save 6 to 12 puppies the suffering...and just make sure they cannot be created from the start.

[BodeOmissemia]

No, they are not papered which is another reason why we should not breed them. They are still young and he plans on waiting to breed them. I have read that there are more cons to neutering than pros so I get that. They really never get the chance to get out and roam seeing as how we have a fenced in backyard they cannot get out of, and we watch them like hawks since people have been killing, poisining, and stealing dogs in our city over the past couple months. We plan on having them compete in shows/competations as soon as they are of age to train (we have heard not to train until they are 18 months. True or false anyone?). The other problem I have is that we live in Ohio. If you know anything about Ohio we have a BSL that sucks the big one. Even though it is up for revising, people here still have a huge issue with APBT and mixes. We also live close to major cities where dog fighting is getting worse so I would hate for a puppy to end up there. His reasoning is just why do it? Which I understand but my issue is what if. I like to be safe rather than sorry. That is just me. I do understand that by being a responsible dog owner, especially for APBT, you have to always be doing the best for the breed. Which we are doing the best we can at in a town and state that hates pits. By neutering them, in my mind, we prevent that possibly of harming the breed. Like you guys said, we do not know how they will be in a few years, or how their health will be. I just don't want to take the risk of hurting the breeds already injured status in society. I want to help it not hurt it.

I am not someone who ''pushes'' spay neuter.So I won't ''tell you'' what to do.I will bring up some valid statements for you to consider..................

*your dogs are both intact male ''pit bull'' type dogs.While this is not an issue now,it could be down the road. Pit bulls are predisposed to interdog aggression.Being intact makes the likelyhood of a fight a little bit higher due to testosterone levels.

* your dogs do not have a pedigree. While I have no issues with mixed bred or dogs without a pedigree,lacking a pedigree you cannot show your pit bulls or track the health of their lineage.You CAN compete with them in weight pulling and other dog sports,but they most often must be neutered for most venues.Few will allow unaltered mixed breeds/non peds .

*Breeding your dogs.(this is more for your BF than you.) It's just not a good idea.No papers,no way of proving the line is healthy OR stable.Period.We have a ton of pit bulls dieing in shelters EVERYWHERE. We do not need anymore pit bulls added to the population.

Now its up to you if you want to neuter your dogs.We all have our preferances on how we manage our dogs.If you decide to leave them intact,PLEASE do NOT breed them,and make sure you supervise them together 100% of the time and have a breakstick on hand.

[Sierabiera]

dont tell him shit just take them to the vet and get them fixed he cant do anything if its already done

[LongaDonga]

Yeah I'd probably just do it too, but thats just me.

Whatever you decide, just don't breed them at all.
Seriously there are so many gorgeous with good temperament "pit bull" type dogs in shelters... those are not valid grounds for breeding any breed of dog.

Well maybe if you are into showing purebred toy breeds because I'm pretty sure you want the little bastards to be nice as well as look good. But any reputable breeder of even those type of dogs should have done genetic testing for whatever diseases are common to the breed in question and thorough orthopedic testing of not only those, but the lineage involved.

I have no problem with responsible people keeping intact dogs and I do think that it can be better for males to remain intact. BUT given that you have two "pit bull" type male dogs, I'd neuter them simply to cut down on the hormones. All its going to take is some hormones wafting down the street and one day they might decide to beat the crap out of each other out of frustration from that.

Also, no fence is dog proof. The only way you can be 100% sure they cannot get out is if they are on a leash in your hand or on a proper chain spot. Just sayin'.
I dearly hope they are not left outside unsupervised, especially together.

[Friend_Joe]

Sometimes, I feel like we all sound like broken records.... fact is, we do. But, it's because there is always someone (boyfriend, in this case) that just "doesn't get it" and thinks that his dogs will make beautiful puppies and all of them will go to good homes because they are good boys, and would never produce a "bad" dog.

Here's something to give him to chew on.....

If you breed your boys, insist on spay/neuter contracts, or have ALL the puppies S/N before they leave your care. Also, in the contract, make sure that you state that if for ANY reason, the person taking the puppy, cannot care for it, that it will be returned to you, no questions asked, and you will either find it a new responsible home, or you will keep it. Let's just say each male produces 12 puppies with a female. That's 24 puppies.... now, of those 24... you could very likely get 10-15 of them back from people once the puppies start becoming a brat during the "teen" stage, or someone just decides that they aren't' cute little puppies any more and they don't want them. Is your b/f willing to take back 10-15 puppies, care for them, feed them, give them proper vet care, and also provide kennels and adequate shelter for each dog? The chances that you will have some puppies returned is very high, it may not be 10-15, but you will very well may get some back. He needs to think of the $$$ of taking care of more than just your two boys if that happens. Not just dog food and treats, but medical checkups, shots, Heartgard, Frontline.... everything that one dog requires to be healthy, multiply that $$ times any figure.... heck, times 5 if you get just 5 puppies back. That's 5 times more expenses than what you are providing now for your two. That is something to chew on, regardless of how cute he thinks the pups will be.

Also, here's something else to think about, and this is for BOTH of you. You have 2 male dogs that really haven't hit maturity yet at one year and the other at 6 months. You still are looking at 2-3 years before both dogs reach full maturity. They can be great friends today.... but in 2-3 years, when they reach maturity, all that testosterone may end up making them mortal enemies. Most dogs don't really start becoming dog aggressive until they start maturing. I'll tell you about my two.

Mollie and Bella have always gotten along. Mollie was about 3 when we adopted Bella (at 3-4 months old). They have been best friends, always supervised, but have always gotten along great. However, in the past 4-6 months, I've noticed that Bella isn't backing down from Mollie, and is starting to stand up to her, and even "bully" her every now and then. I've watched them super close, knowing all the while that their days of both being able to sleep with us could be ending. Within the last month, Bella has jumped on Mollie a total of 3 times. Luckily, I was right there 2 of those times, and they were apart within 15-20 seconds. The one time I wasn't, I was asleep and they were in the living room with Brad. Bella got off the couch, walked past Mollie (who was on the love seat) and she just snapped at her. A fight ensued... they were broken up in less than 60 seconds, but it was complete acknowledgment that they could no longer be around each other. I am now crating/rotating them, and Bella now sleeps in her crate at night. Sure, I hate it, but I knew it was always possible. Bella has become dog aggressive... but only toward Mollie. Why?? I have no idea, all I know is, she is. Mollie was spayed at 6 months, Bella came to us with stitches from her spay at 3ish months. Brad asked why Bella was all of a sudden doing this out of the blue.... my reply?? She's reaching full maturity... it happens.

Your boys may get along great for now, be best buds and play and have a great time, but once they both hit maturity, that may end. Of course, it may not... but it may. Please think about that. Even if you have them neutered, it is still very likely that they may just wake up one morning and decide they aren't going to be friends any longer. I urge you, if you don't have a break stick, please order one TODAY!!! You may never need it, but better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. Pit Bull Rescue Central has great break sticks, and perfect directions on how to properly break up a fight. Please, any home that has a bully breed in it, should have a break stick, even if you only have one dog. You never know when another dog will come into your yard or dig under your fence, and then you have a fight on your hands. Here's PBRC's website to order break sticks, and they are reasonably priced: http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html

One rule of thumb with this breed is, never expect them NOT to fight... regardless of if they are intact or altered, male or female, happy go lucky with everyone all the time, or not... never get so relaxed that you think you are free from worrying about dog fights, and never, NEVER let your guard down. As soon as you do, you'll regret it.

Here's some great threads that both you and your boyfriend would benefit from reading and rereading...

Always expect a bulldog to fight:
http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=13984

Never leave your dogs alone together unsupervised:
http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=2779

[Sierabiera]

well if you do breed them be ready to have your house smell like shit for a few months trust me that sux breeding period sux its a nasty smelly money pit to do it right

my hats off to the breeders who do it right and for the right reasons