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Old 02-21-2009, 01:41 AM   #1
gactanync

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Default My Letter Got A Response From The HSUS....
So, I took the time and wrote a letter, and sent it to the HSUS, to the following: John Goodwin (jgoodwin@hsus.org), to dog-fighting campain PR person Nadya Vera (nvera@hsus.org), to corporate communications person Rachel Querry (rquerry@hsus.org), to the general membership email address (membership@hsus.org), and to the director of the Eastern Regional Office (eros@hsus.org).

Per this blog.

Two people responded back, John Goodwin and Nadya Vera, they used the same letter:


Thank you for contacting us regarding a county judge’s decision in North Carolina to euthanize fighting dogs seized from the property of notorious dogfighting kingpin Ed Faron. We understand your concern about the judge’s order to euthanize the dogs, and it is always a tragic outcome when healthy animals meet such a fate. But the blame lies with Mr. Faron, and not with county officials or The Humane Society of the United States. While we may not endorse every action of the county, we are grateful to them for working with The HSUS to bust a man who is responsible for an enormous amount of cruelty to dogs, and to bring him to justice.

No organization has done more to attack and harm the dogfighting industry than The HSUS. We’ve probably invested more in combating dogfighting than all other humane groups combined, and to great effect. We are principally responsible for the strong state and federal laws that make the practice a felony and ban possession and sale of fighting animals, and we have trained thousands of law enforcement personnel on investigating and raiding fighting operations. What’s more, it is our training, investigations, and rewards programs that are resulting in the arrest of countless dogfighters and the seizure of thousands of fighting dogs (which are, according to the dogfighters, an asset they lose upon seizure).

We are involved in dogfighting busts on almost a weekly basis, and the handling of Mr. Faron’s dogs raises the same questions that confound us constantly. With approximately 600,000 pit bulls killed in shelters each year, why should fighting dogs, which obviously require more resources to manage and which pose an obvious threat to other animals, get placed in favor of other equally deserving pit bulls and other breeds slated for euthanasia? In a local jurisdiction that has perhaps hundreds of other pit bulls waiting for loving homes, why not save them in favor of fighting dogs that will cost far more to handle on a per dog basis? How do we solve the larger pit bull problem in the nation, since we have an epidemic of dogfighters and others breeding them for aggression and for uses other than as companions?

We conducted a long-term investigation that led to the arrest of Mr. Faron and the seizure of his fighting dogs. He is considered one of the “Godfathers” of dogfighting, and it was our goal to put him out of business, just as it is our goal to target other industry leaders, in order to prevent thousands of dogs for use in fighting pits. Had it not been for our investigation, most of his dogs would have suffered immensely in a fighting pit in the weeks and months ahead. And who knows how many other dogs he would have bred to face this same fate.

It is now an HSUS policy to recommend an evaluation of all fighting dogs. In this case, The HSUS offered to pay for an additional professional evaluator to assess the dogs, even though we were skeptical that these dogs could be safely rehabilitated. The county did not take us up on that offer. Without an affirmative professional evaluation to indicate that the dogs could be safely placed in a new setting, we could not recommend adoption of these dogs who had been bred for generations for their instinct to kill.

While separate evaluations were not done, it is safe to say Faron’s dogs have been bred to produce animals with an unstoppable desire to fight, even in the face of extreme pain and fear. Professional dogfighters typically “cull” the dogs that don’t exhibit gameness or aggression, and only keep and breed the ones that exhibit the desired traits. For proof of that, we can refer to Faron himself, from his book about dogfighting:
“His face had only just healed from that fight with the Wreckers’ dog and he got his nose chewed half off again, that night.”
“The gamest dog I ever saw in my life was King David. At ten minutes, his right leg was broken. At twenty-three minutes, his left leg was broken. At thirty-seven he scratched on stumps, and at forty-eight minutes when he scratched he scratched down one wall and down the other ….until he got to Beau again.”
“ I mean, he broke muzzles, crushed skulls- we saw him bite dogs in the chest and their chest would literally collapse. That was Beau…”

Game-bred dogs pose a risk to other dogs and to people not just because of training, but more importantly because of breeding for aggressive characteristics. Even no-kill shelters typically recommend euthanasia of obviously dangerous dogs.

These fighting dogs do not compare with the dogs from amateur “street fighters,” who typically take any, random pit bull and try and force them to fight. If pit bulls have not been bred for generations to have a “fight crazy” instinct, even if they have been exposed to dogfighting, they have a chance of being rehabilitated. This is why a substantial number of Michael Vick’s dogs were candidates for rehabilitation, after the court ordered Vick to pay $1 million as a set-aside to provide care and retraining for the dogs.

Once game-bred dogs are confiscated from a fighting situation, there are very few good options. There are no sanctuaries that exist for the thousands of game-bred dogs confiscated each year, and as a nation, there are hundreds of thousands of pit bulls awaiting adoptions in shelters every year. The resources that would be required to confine or rehabilitate fighting dogs could save many more dogs in shelters every year. So, in that sense, it is not a zero-sum game when it comes to euthanasia; it is a negative-sum game, and an inordinate focus on these few pit bulls would result in more euthanasia of other dogs. And if you impose upon rural counties — where most fighting busts occur — the burden of long-term holding of fighting pit bulls, then they may decline to intervene in criminal fighting cases, allowing the dogfighters to continue to operate.

There are tough choices to be made, and the only morally clear act is to attack the dogfighters where they live. We are the only national organization that has an entire unit devoted to this work on a national scale. That’s what we’ll continue to do.
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Old 02-21-2009, 03:01 AM   #2
astefecyAvevy

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Screw the HSUS. What BS they spread.

Yeah, they called FB one of the Don's of dog fighting as well, but luckily FB had the money to get a good lawyer to take them on and won and proved his innocence. They also refered to him as one of the "Dons" of dog fighting, and that proved to be wrong.

What the HSUS should really write is, "Each week we disturb the lives of both innocent and guilty people we don't really care either way and kill their dogs, then we pretend that we saved dogs from being fought in a pit."
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Old 02-21-2009, 03:19 AM   #3
traithJah

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omg . I need anger management or something because honestly i wouldn't be able to control my self if i saw john goodwin in person. Omfg! John Goodwin = the person that i hate the most in this world @#!@!. I just gotta stop viewing these threads about the HSUS. They really piss me off ALOT. I cant read these ignorant full of sh*t stuff that they are telling people and people dont know who they really are and are donating them money. those mofo's! @!#@!!@#@!
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Old 02-21-2009, 04:30 AM   #4
teergoBissono

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Hell, I could have saved you the time of reading that... THIS is all they had to say!

"Dear Concerned Person,

Thanks for sending us a letter that you took hours to thoughtfully write out and research. We certainly don't appreciate it though, and in fact didn't even read it, which is evidenced in the fact that we are all sending you the same generic response -

We are out to anilihate and make extinct this dangerous animal called the "game dog", whose only purpose is to maim and kill everything that comes too close. It's for YOUR safety, we swear! We are busting down the fences of those HORRID dog fighters like Ed Faron and Floyd Boudreaux and saving their TERRIBLY neglicted dogs from further abuse and horror. No need to thank us, we KNOW you're pleased! Our goal is to have every single respectful, well known, well idolized gamebred APBT breeder wiped out within the next 5 years... and we're well on the way to seeing our goal realized! We hope you'll support our extreme distortion of the truth about this amazing breed so that we can reach our goal EVEN faster... please, if you have any information that would assist us in stealing and killing more dogs in the future, we'd love to line your pockets - ahem, I mean hear from you!

Sincerely,
The Heartless, Close Minded, Ignorant, Asshole Staff of HSUS"
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Old 02-21-2009, 04:33 AM   #5
astefecyAvevy

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So true, Teal.
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Old 02-21-2009, 04:51 AM   #6
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:54 AM   #7
swissloveone

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Vicky I cross posted this, I hope you don't mind but it should get out there
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Old 02-21-2009, 07:02 AM   #8
xLQLRcXh

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Grrrrr!!! How ridiculous! What idiots the HSUS are.
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Old 02-21-2009, 07:23 AM   #9
acneman

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Love the translation Teal
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Old 02-21-2009, 08:13 AM   #10
AngelBee

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At the risk of being slammed here, does anyone really know for sure what Faron did when no one was around? Just asking because I am new to APBTs and don't know Wildside Kennels. I would love to know the history here.
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Old 02-21-2009, 08:16 AM   #11
NvrNoNowX

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Amen Teal!
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Old 02-21-2009, 08:31 AM   #12
moohassinny

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Hell, I could have saved you the time of reading that... THIS is all they had to say!

"Dear Concerned Person,

Thanks for sending us a letter that you took hours to thoughtfully write out and research. We certainly don't appreciate it though, and in fact didn't even read it, which is evidenced in the fact that we are all sending you the same generic response -

We are out to anilihate and make extinct this dangerous animal called the "game dog", whose only purpose is to maim and kill everything that comes too close. It's for YOUR safety, we swear! We are busting down the fences of those HORRID dog fighters like Ed Faron and Floyd Boudreaux and saving their TERRIBLY neglicted dogs from further abuse and horror. No need to thank us, we KNOW you're pleased! Our goal is to have every single respectful, well known, well idolized gamebred APBT breeder wiped out within the next 5 years... and we're well on the way to seeing our goal realized! We hope you'll support our extreme distortion of the truth about this amazing breed so that we can reach our goal EVEN faster... please, if you have any information that would assist us in stealing and killing more dogs in the future, we'd love to line your pockets - ahem, I mean hear from you!

Sincerely,
The Heartless, Close Minded, Ignorant, Asshole Staff of HSUS"
This just needed to be posted again.
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Old 02-21-2009, 09:57 AM   #13
milfovoxapl

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At the risk of being slammed here, does anyone really know for sure what Faron did when no one was around? Just asking because I am new to APBTs and don't know Wildside Kennels. I would love to know the history here.
OK so no one answered this question, and not running in gaming circles I too have questions......The HSUS wrote:

We are involved in dogfighting busts on almost a weekly basis, and the handling of Mr. Faron’s dogs raises the same questions that confound us constantly. With approximately 600,000 pit bulls killed in shelters each year, why should fighting dogs, which obviously require more resources to manage and which pose an obvious threat to other animals, get placed in favor of other equally deserving pit bulls and other breeds slated for euthanasia? In a local jurisdiction that has perhaps hundreds of other pit bulls waiting for loving homes, why not save them in favor of fighting dogs that will cost far more to handle on a per dog basis? I think this is crap. The value of one life is no more or less valuable than another. It seems to me that just because a dog is a pit does not make it agressive, it is the owner and the way a dog is handeled.

How do we solve the larger pit bull problem in the nation, since we have an epidemic of dogfighters and others breeding them for aggression and for uses other than as companions? Being a rescue this is a question I also have.

We conducted a long-term investigation that led to the arrest of Mr. Faron and the seizure of his fighting dogs. He is considered one of the “Godfathers” of dogfighting, and it was our goal to put him out of business, just as it is our goal to target other industry leaders, in order to prevent thousands of dogs for use in fighting pits. Had it not been for our investigation, most of his dogs would have suffered immensely in a fighting pit in the weeks and months ahead. And who knows how many other dogs he would have bred to face this same fate. I do not know this man and no one has atated wheather he was a dog fighter or not, so for me to make a person al judgement would be way out of line, but from his own words( in the quotes of his book) he seems to admit guilt. But I am not an advocate of dog fighting and do not consider the practice a sport. I think the dogs in a pit, although having the desire to fight, to suffer from the experience.

It is now an HSUS policy to recommend an evaluation of all fighting dogs. In this case, The HSUS offered to pay for an additional professional evaluator to assess the dogs, even though we were skeptical that these dogs could be safely rehabilitated. The county did not take us up on that offer. Without an affirmative professional evaluation to indicate that the dogs could be safely placed in a new setting, we could not recommend adoption of these dogs who had been bred for generations for their instinct to kill. I think thier statement about not being able to recommend adoption for these dogs because of breeding is CRAP! Using breeding to justify euthensia is a cop out. It is an excuse that makes them feel better about an injustice.

I do question the statement that these dogs were bred for generations for their instinct to kill.....I have heard, and have had conversations with others on this very forum that say that a dog cannot be considered a"Game Dog" without "Matching" the dog with another to see if it will fight. So are they or are they not breeding dogs for fighting? Are these dogs being bred for agression, are they culling dogs that do not have a agressive temprement?

While separate evaluations were not done, it is safe to say Faron’s dogs have been bred to produce animals with an unstoppable desire to fight, even in the face of extreme pain and fear. Professional dogfighters typically “cull” the dogs that don’t exhibit gameness or aggression, and only keep and breed the ones that exhibit the desired traits. For proof of that, we can refer to Faron himself, from his book about dogfighting:
“His face had only just healed from that fight with the Wreckers’ dog and he got his nose chewed half off again, that night.”
“The gamest dog I ever saw in my life was King David. At ten minutes, his right leg was broken. At twenty-three minutes, his left leg was broken. At thirty-seven he scratched on stumps, and at forty-eight minutes when he scratched he scratched down one wall and down the other ….until he got to Beau again.”
“ I mean, he broke muzzles, crushed skulls- we saw him bite dogs in the chest and their chest would literally collapse. That was Beau…” I see the pride in these statements, but at what expense? And are statements like these hurting the chances of our saving this breed? Groups like the HSUS, PETA and other AR groups are using statements like these to turn the public against our pups.And I might add it is working.

Game-bred dogs pose a risk to other dogs and to people not just because of training, but more importantly because of breeding for aggressive characteristics. Even no-kill shelters typically recommend euthanasia of obviously dangerous dogs. What is GAME BRED? Do these dogs post a risk to other dogs and humans if in the wrong hands? Should there be regulations on breed and owning of these dogs? The term GAME BRED confuses me.

These fighting dogs do not compare with the dogs from amateur “street fighters,” who typically take any, random pit bull and try and force them to fight. If pit bulls have not been bred for generations to have a “fight crazy” instinct, even if they have been exposed to dogfighting, they have a chance of being rehabilitated. This is why a substantial number of Michael Vick’s dogs were candidates for rehabilitation, after the court ordered Vick to pay $1 million as a set-aside to provide care and retraining for the dogs. I think this statement is CRAP! The dangerous thing about amature street fighters is that they ARE amiture. The breeding is random, the genetics of these street pits is horrid, and the temprement and stability of the dogs will always be in question.
As for Vick's dogs, I do not think they were any easier to rehabilitate because they were not specially bred for gaming, and did not have the best geneoligy. I think they just were given a chance. Farons dogs were not.

Once game-bred dogs are confiscated from a fighting situation, there are very few good options. There are no sanctuaries that exist for the thousands of game-bred dogs confiscated each year, and as a nation, there are hundreds of thousands of pit bulls awaiting adoptions in shelters every year. The resources that would be required to confine or rehabilitate fighting dogs could save many more dogs in shelters every year. So, in that sense, it is not a zero-sum game when it comes to euthanasia; it is a negative-sum game, and an inordinate focus on these few pit bulls would result in more euthanasia of other dogs. And if you impose upon rural counties — where most fighting busts occur — the burden of long-term holding of fighting pit bulls, then they may decline to intervene in criminal fighting cases, allowing the dogfighters to continue to operate. The numbers are outstanding. We here have 65 percent of our shelter dogs tagged as pits. Now for a shelter that means anything resembeling a pit, not true pits. In any case that is frightining. We do have a problem with irresponsibility in this community. And the irresponsibility of the HSUS to mis label any power breed as a pit.

There are tough choices to be made, and the only morally clear act is to attack the dogfighters where they live. We are the only national organization that has an entire unit devoted to this work on a national scale. That’s what we’ll continue to do.

OK before I get linched, please let me say, I know very little about dog fighting, true dog fighting. I have alot of respect for the knowledge that many of the people on this forum have in respect to this subject.

I live in the city, and the irresponsible idiots have flooded our shelters and streets with mix breed pits. Many neglected, abused, misbred and abandoned. They are fighting dogs on the street corners, back yards and garages. They are misbreeding and over breeding litter after litter, causing a instability in the breed itself. Now with hundreds of abandoned "pits" on the streets and so many irresponsible owners allowing their dogs to reek havoc, I may loose the priviledge of owning one of the best breeds that I have come across.

And don't hit me with the "You must be AR " crap. I hate AR Tree hugger idiots, and cannot stomach PETA or the HSUS. This is about MY RIGHTS. My right to own the dog of my choice! And with dog fighting being illegal, the ones who are TRULY fighting these dogs, and glorifying the practice seems to be contributing to the problem, because these inner city thugs are trying to imitate you.We don't want tougher laws, we don't want licencing, we don't want manditory spay and neuter, What do we expect. Dog fighting is illegal, that makes anyone that practices it is a criminal, wheather he is a good ol boy or not.

Most of you are responsible dog owners, but unless we come up with some solutions our dogs will stay in danger or could be forced into extenction. All is unacceptable.....


As for Faron, I wish someone would clarify what the actual involvement was. What evidence did the feds have to prosicute him and kill all of his pups?


Sorry so longwinded, I can't sleep, and Here in Texas we have BSL legislation hanging over our heads and am worried about what Texas will pass.

AFTER this post I will probably be hung in town square...Be gentle.
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Old 02-21-2009, 10:16 AM   #14
Thunderzee

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Disgusting.


I hope that anyone with yards have looked to farming out the dogs. This letter makes it loud and clear that they will target anyone anytime they please.
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Old 02-21-2009, 10:24 AM   #15
milfovoxapl

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Disgusting.


I hope that anyone with yards have looked to farming out the dogs. This letter makes it loud and clear that they will target anyone anytime they please.
That is what I am worried about, It takes one stupid person to plant a seed and my dogs out romping in the yard will become a vicious group of fighting dogs.....
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Old 02-21-2009, 11:56 AM   #16
WumibBesowe

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Sincerely,
The Heartless, Close Minded, Ignorant, Asshole Staff of HSUS"
so true^^
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Old 02-21-2009, 12:50 PM   #17
AngelBee

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Ok, again I ask. Who really knows Faron isn't doing what they say he is? I am just asking. I am not asking because I am pro HSUS or PETA or any other group.
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Old 02-21-2009, 01:36 PM   #18
surefireinvest

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Ok, again I ask. Who really knows Faron isn't doing what they say he is? I am just asking. I am not asking because I am pro HSUS or PETA or any other group. Hi and welcome to the forum....

There are many threads here on the subject. There are many members here that know Ed and his family personally and there are other members that own dogs that form WSK. You can use the search option to look for all the information you are asking for.

My thoughts on the letter.....

This letter makes me sick in so many different ways. If I were uneducated on the breed I could see how the shit he spews would sound intelligent, he has a gift to gab so to say and this gift to gab is the very thing that keeps our breed in danger of the HSUS. This man has blood on his hands and one day it will come back and bite him in the ass really hard....
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:20 PM   #19
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Disgusting.


I hope that anyone with yards have looked to farming out the dogs. This letter makes it loud and clear that they will target anyone anytime they please.
Exactly! Close the circles folks!

Anti crulety dogfighting legistlation has been the pipeline for the HSUS and local governs to eradicate this breed. One doesnt have to be guilty, they just need to assume that you are, to destroy your animals. They dont give a shit if they get a conviction....They got what they wanted.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:21 PM   #20
Garry Hovard

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I know Ed, he is 61 years old and in bad health... he could not physically match a dog in his physical condition. If you had ever been up to his place and seen his yard you'd realize just how ridiculous this whole thing is. I've walked his yard with him and his son, I've sat in the chain spots and played with dogs like a big ass kid... He was scheduled to have yet another surgery the day they raided his property... in his condition it is impossible he was fighting dogs.

The HSUS and the Wilkes County Sheriff's department raided him because they knew he is an old man in bad health and in a financial bind... they knew he would not be able to afford a defense. And to make sure of that once they stole his dogs they then tried to force him to pay for their confinement.. and also told him he had to pay the money whether he won or lost or the dogs would become property of the state.

The dogs were going to be destroyed whether Ed won or not... because honestly who can afford almost $13,000 A MONTH.. to pay for their dogs' confinement.. The issue here is the simple fact that JP Goodwin and his lackeys want the BREED DESTROYED... they don't care about busting dog fighters.. they want to KILL THE BREED

Ok, again I ask. Who really knows Faron isn't doing what they say he is? I am just asking. I am not asking because I am pro HSUS or PETA or any other group.
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