[Skete]

It is a shame it happened, but it's also a shame to hear you got rid of Madrox, when he was just following his genetic make-up. I am sorry for your loss, but hope you did learn never to leave to "pit bulls" alone together.

[oliverlogo]

oh trust me i did learn my lesson and i feel like i am waaayyyy more responsible for what happened and i blame myself more than i blame Madrox, i just felt i had to place him in a new home b/c i have a 16 month old son and i just cant trust him any more b/c my child comes first. It really shocked me that it happened because neither one of them had ever showed any kind of aggression toward anything, not even our cats, and i just did not ever imagine this would come to happen but i will NEVER let it happen again. RIP ODIN

[alecoplesosse]

BIG difference between Dog Aggression and Human Aggression. Just because a dog attacks another dog, doesn't mean that same dog would EVER attack a person. I would advise never getting another APBT if you don't understand the difference. As CHJ mentioned, this dog was just listening to his genetics.

oh trust me i did learn my lesson and i feel like i am waaayyyy more responsible for what happened and i blame myself more than i blame Madrox, i just felt i had to place him in a new home b/c i have a 16 month old son and i just cant trust him any more b/c my child comes first. It really shocked me that it happened because neither one of them had ever showed any kind of aggression toward anything, not even our cats, and i just did not ever imagine this would come to happen but i will NEVER let it happen again. RIP ODIN

[oliverlogo]

BIG difference between Dog Aggression and Human Aggression. Just because a dog attacks another dog, doesn't mean that same dog would EVER attack a person. I would advise never getting another APBT if you don't understand the difference. As CHJ mentioned, this dog was just listening to his genetics.

yeah i do know that it is not a natural thing for a pit bull to be human aggressive, you have to persuade them to be so but i also dont think that all dogs understand that a child/baby is a human, and i am not worried that he would attack a human adult, i am worried for my childs sake b/c like i said i had owned Madrox for 5 years and NEVER had a problem with him with dogs or humans but for some reason that day he and Odin had a problem and this is what happened so i am not even taking that chance with my child. I still own 2 other APBT's and they are a wonderful part of our family and are loved very much, and i will be sure that this mistake would never happen again. I guess we did not think about it hard enough "had our head in the clouds going on vacation" which is still no excuse but like i said it wont happen again, i will carry this burden with me always.

[alecoplesosse]

One of the best qualities of this breed is their LOVE FOR CHILDREN! I couldn't dissagree with you more on your statement that they don't see a child as human. That's like saying a dog doesn't think a little squirrel is a squirrel?

Glad you learned a lesson but I think it's a shame you gave the dog up due to your irresponsibilites.

yeah i do know that it is not a natural thing for a pit bull to be human aggressive, you have to persuade them to be so but i also dont think that all dogs understand that a child/baby is a human, and i am not worried that he would attack a human adult, i am worried for my childs sake b/c like i said i had owned Madrox for 5 years and NEVER had a problem with him with dogs or humans but for some reason that day he and Odin had a problem and this is what happened so i am not even taking that chance with my child. I still own 2 other APBT's and they are a wonderful part of our family and are loved very much, and i will be sure that this mistake would never happen again. I guess we did not think about it hard enough "had our head in the clouds going on vacation" which is still no excuse but like i said it wont happen again, i will carry this burden with me always.

[oliverlogo]

well i understand and respect your opinion on that but my husband had a co-worker that had a pit bull/boxer mix that never showed any signs of human or dog aggression and one day up and attacked their one year old son so we just felt it was the better decision for us to place him in a different home, which was just as bad as loosing Odin believe me i lost 2 of my precious babies this year but i am not and will not let ANY dog attack my child off of a whim. plus you dont understand the background facts, we had family members pressuring us to put Madrox to sleep (they dont understand pit bulls at all and have never been a huge fan of them) and tried to tell us he was blood thirsty now, which i TOTALLY dont believe but it was just gonna help ease a lot of hearts and minds if we made this decision. I def. was not going to have him put to sleep for my mistake but like i said it was a BIG shock to us because he had been left alone before with other dogs and NEVER even got into a fight let alone kill another dog.

One of the best qualities of this breed is their LOVE FOR CHILDREN! I couldn't dissagree with you more on your statement that they don't see a child as human. That's like saying a dog doesn't think a little squirrel is a squirrel?

Glad you learned a lesson but I think it's a shame you gave the dog up due to your irresponsibilites.

[sabbixsweraco]

well i understand and respect your opinion on that but my husband had a co-worker that had a pit bull/boxer mix that never showed any signs of human or dog aggression and one day up and attacked their one year old son so we just felt it was the better decision for us to place him in a different home, which was just as bad as loosing Odin believe me i lost 2 of my precious babies this year but i am not and will not let ANY dog attack my child off of a whim. plus you dont understand the background facts, we had family members pressuring us to put Madrox to sleep (they dont understand pit bulls at all and have never been a huge fan of them) and tried to tell us he was blood thirsty now, which i TOTALLY dont believe but it was just gonna help ease a lot of hearts and minds if we made this decision. I def. was not going to have him put to sleep for my mistake but like i said it was a BIG shock to us because he had been left alone before with other dogs and NEVER even got into a fight let alone kill another dog.

While I don't know the entire story about the dog that attacked the child, I'm going to say that the dog could of been bred incorrectly, genetically wrong.

[alecoplesosse]

First off, a mix breed DOES not have the same genetic makeup of a pure APBT so that story is irrelevant. Again, you're missing the point. APBT's are going to be Dog Aggressive to some extent about 95% of the time. A properly wired/bred dog will NEVER attack a human, PERIOD!
Why did your family members want to have just madrox put down and not your other "pit bulls"? I have a feeling you're going to reply because he's Dog Aggressive. If that's the case, I'm even more ashamed you'd kennel two of them together and it's also your fault for not relaying the difference between DA and HA to this family member, but then again, sounds like you don't even know the difference. I'm taking a break now because I'm irritated by your logic. I feel terrible for your dogs, not so much you!

well i understand and respect your opinion on that but my husband had a co-worker that had a pit bull/boxer mix that never showed any signs of human or dog aggression and one day up and attacked their one year old son so we just felt it was the better decision for us to place him in a different home, which was just as bad as loosing Odin believe me i lost 2 of my precious babies this year but i am not and will not let ANY dog attack my child off of a whim. plus you dont understand the background facts, we had family members pressuring us to put Madrox to sleep (they dont understand pit bulls at all and have never been a huge fan of them) and tried to tell us he was blood thirsty now, which i TOTALLY dont believe but it was just gonna help ease a lot of hearts and minds if we made this decision. I def. was not going to have him put to sleep for my mistake but like i said it was a BIG shock to us because he had been left alone before with other dogs and NEVER even got into a fight let alone kill another dog.

[sabbixsweraco]

So, you still have 2 remaining dogs with you?

[katetomson]

Pit bulls should never show human aggression... What happened with your dogs could happen to anyone, who wasn't finely tuned to what DA means. They can get along great, wonderful, perfect, for 5 years, 8 months and 21 days.... but on day 22... one of them can do something that ruffles the other one's feathers, and ...bam... you have to bury one of your dogs. It is never, ever, ever, ok to leave 2 bully breads alone, unattended, for any amount of time, no matter how short. I don't have 2 bullies in my house, only one, but 6 dogs... Mollie is not allowed to be alone with them, ever. If I'm outside, break stick in hand (just in case), then she can be outside with some of them. But she has already had a tiff with 2 of my males, therefore, I do not take any more chances on a fight, they are never outside when she is, ever!

Any pit bull that ever shows human aggression, is probably the result of bad genetics, a greedy BYB, and in most cases, should probably be humanely euthanized. (JMO)

[oliverlogo]

like i said above the wanted him put down b/c they thought he was blood thirsty, which is stupid and i dont believe that at all, and i didnt need or ask for your sympathy or your so called "higher knowledge" of the breed, you should also know then that pit bulls have a high prey drive and yes kids can be looked at as prey. and you are missing the point, i told you he WAS NOT dog aggressive or aggressive at all, it was just a weird that on that day him and Odin had some sort of problem. and trust me i tried to explain this to our family members but they think that if they become blood thirsty the will attack anything, which i tried telling them is stupid but they would not listen, they were torn up that Odin was gone as well because out of most of my dogs he was their favorite because he had a personality that would win over anyone. Madrox is in a great home and is still close by where i can see him when i like so i feel i did the best i could for this situation. and again i learned my lesson so i dont need you trying to tell me i am a bad person b/c i know i am not, i just made a bad mistake that i greatly learned from.

First off, a mix breed DOES not have the same genetic makeup of a pure APBT so that story is irrelevant. Again, you're missing the point. APBT's are going to be Dog Aggressive to some extent about 95% of the time. A properly wired/bred dog will NEVER attack a human, PERIOD!
Why did your family members want to have just madrox put down and not your other "pit bulls"? I have a feeling you're going to reply because he's Dog Aggressive. If that's the case, I'm even more ashamed you'd kennel two of them together and it's also your fault for not relaying the difference between DA and HA to this family member, but then again, sounds like you don't even know the difference. I'm taking a break now because I'm irritated by your logic. I feel terrible for your dogs, not so much you!

[oliverlogo]

yes i still have 2 other APBTs and they were in 2 other separate kennels.

So, you still have 2 remaining dogs with you?

[sabbixsweraco]

yes i still have 2 other APBTs and they were in 2 other separate kennels.

Ok. Please keep in mind, from this point forward, that this breed can be DA (dog aggressive). It's normal behavior for this breed.

Crate and rotate
Always supervise when they are together
Never trust them NOT to fight, even if they don't start it, they will finish it.


you should also know then that pit bulls have a high prey drive and yes kids can be looked at as prey. I have to disagree with this. Adults and kids should be seen as alpha to your dogs, always. That's where NILIF comes in:

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=1571

[katetomson]

Well, one of the great things about this forum is, it's a great place to learn.
Many members on here have owned APBT or 'pit bulls' for many, many years. I did not know nearly as much almost 4 years ago when my daughter was given a pit bull, as I do now. I believed all the myths about locking jaws, blood thirsty, they turn on their owners... I didn't know, or have the respect, for the breed that I do now. I've only been here almost a year, but I have learned years of experience, from members that have had the breed and researched the breed, way more than I could ever imagine.

It was a hard lesson to learn, but take the experience you've gained from it, move forward and continue to promote the breed (with the ones you still have) in a positive light.

[oliverlogo]

yeah i know they can, my spayed female can kinda be DA b/c she likes to think she is Queen B but thats why i had her by herself in a whole other kennel, but i guess i put to much trust in my boys, and i thought since Madrox was neutered there would not be a problem but boy i was wrong, i did learn my lesson but i will continue to promote this breed i love dearly b/c the truly do make the best dogs. =0)

[bUqLfXRI]

I want to warn people that it's not just 2 "pit bulls" that will fight, but dogs of ANY breed or mix of breed will fight! Especially when left alone for long periods of time in kennels and/or under any stressful situation.

Because of that reason, I don't know of a single reputable boarding kennel that will board 2 dogs together in the same run. It's just not a good idea.

Dog fights happen on a daily basis regardless of breed. We had a client who had 3 Yorkies until one day, while she was at work, 2 of the Yorkies ganged up on the 3rd and killed it.

The day after Gustav passed through, 2 Golden Retreivers killed a neighbor's hound mix.

Another client had a Collie that killed their Chihuahua.

The moral of the story is these things can happen, but they don't have to. And it's not the fault of the "attacking" dog that it does. It's the human's fault for allowing it by putting the dogs into a negative situation.

I feel sorry for the other dog in this situation as he's now been deemed "untrustworthy" and a "killer" and for all we know, this dog could have been merely defending himself against the other dog.

Rehoming the dog wasn't a necessity. But if you felt it was and you couldn't handle it, then you might need to think about rehoming the other ones as if you cannot be reponsible with one particular dog, you cannot be reponsible with any dog.

[Ibrattnofich]

I'm sorry that all that happened Scarecrow, I'm glad you joined the forum

[katetomson]

Miakoda's right, it can happen between any 2 dogs left alone, male or female, big or little. The main thing, I think, is that we help ScareCrow learn from this, and not let it happen again. But at the same time, not beat her when she's already down. I know it's frustrating at times, but we want to keep members here, to educate and learn all they can about the breed, we don't want to run them off by beating them when they are already down. I think she realizes she made a grave mistake, and not one she likely will make again. No sense in continuing to rake her over the coals. (JMO)

[alecoplesosse]

Alright, don't twist my words. I never said you were a bad person, I said you were irresponsible. I can't judge you, I don't even know you. I can however judge your actions based on what you've posted in these threads.

You also make mention that Madrox was not Dog Aggressive, obviously you were wrong. Many people have made the same mistake as you and as Mollie's Nana mentioned, sometimes it just shows up out of nowhere. That's why it's important to never leave two bulldogs alone together, even if they've never showed signs of DA.

I don't mean to come off as a dick, but you must understand it's people like you who give this breed a bad name from being irresponsible! They get rid of dogs because of dog aggression and when people ask what happened to Madrox, you say, "I got rid of him because I feared he would attack my child". All of this because he showed the signs of a normal "pit bull" and was DA and killed one of your other dogs. Your statement saying kids can be viewed as prey just made my stomach cringe! That's the biggest line of shit I've ever heard.

like i said above the wanted him put down b/c they thought he was blood thirsty, which is stupid and i dont believe that at all, and i didnt need or ask for your sympathy or your so called "higher knowledge" of the breed, you should also know then that pit bulls have a high prey drive and yes kids can be looked at as prey. and you are missing the point, i told you he WAS NOT dog aggressive or aggressive at all, it was just a weird that on that day him and Odin had some sort of problem. and trust me i tried to explain this to our family members but they think that if they become blood thirsty the will attack anything, which i tried telling them is stupid but they would not listen, they were torn up that Odin was gone as well because out of most of my dogs he was their favorite because he had a personality that would win over anyone. Madrox is in a great home and is still close by where i can see him when i like so i feel i did the best i could for this situation. and again i learned my lesson so i dont need you trying to tell me i am a bad person b/c i know i am not, i just made a bad mistake that i greatly learned from.