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Old 08-12-2012, 07:06 PM   #41
h0ldem

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Well the article is from NASA firstly, and secondly there is no physical law that says gravity cannot be manipulated. Thanks, I missed the link at the bottom of the OP and didn't realise it was from NASA.

At the moment I disagree that control of gravity (in the sense they are talking about) would not contravene any of the "laws of physics".

It would mean scrapping the law of conservation of momentum, which would have huge implications.

In fact it would really mean going back to the start with everything.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:07 PM   #42
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JPL has been working on the manipulation of space/time as a means of propulsion for a couple of decades
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:08 PM   #43
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Also, level 4 is unnecessary. Anything that can be done with Level 4 can also be done with Level 3, it just takes a bit longer.
If I understand that, I disagree with it.

I think that there are things that are physically impossible, and always will be.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:11 PM   #44
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Without reading the whole thread... and just a few bits...

Didn't the whole Boson-Higgs particle "prove" that our laws of physics are the right ones? So therefore there is no disproving those laws anymore?
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:11 PM   #45
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I really cannot see how that would affect the manipulation of gravity. Because avoiding the law of conservation of momentum is what the article seems to be talking about when they talk about manipulating gravity. e.g. they talk about accellerating without applying a reactive force.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:12 PM   #46
Jimambol

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JPL has been working on the manipulation of space/time as a means of propulsion for a couple of decades
Ref?
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:13 PM   #47
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Without reading the whole thread... and just a few bits...

Didn't the whole Boson-Higgs particle "prove" that our laws of physics are the right ones? So therefore there is no disproving those laws anymore?
Yes, it didn't.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:14 PM   #48
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Yes, it didn't.
There's a double negative somewhere or are you disagreeing with me?
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:15 PM   #49
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It would mean scrapping the law of conservation of momentum, which would have huge implications.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


I'm not real sure how that would invalidate space/time warping manipulation....
Theoretically we need large amounts of energy [matter, anti-matter anhialation maybe ] to warp and/or manipulate space/time/gravity, to give a perception of FTL
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:17 PM   #50
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There's a double negative somewhere or are you disagreeing with me?
Sorry, just being a smart-arse

The Higgs Boson work, if it is correct, shows that the "standard model" is consistent with these particular observations, as well as all the preceding observations, but it does not, and cannot, prove that the standard model is a complete correct description of reality in all respects.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:21 PM   #51
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It would mean scrapping the law of conservation of momentum, which would have huge implications.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


I'm not real sure how that would invalidate space/time warping manipulation....
Theoretically we need large amounts of energy [matter, anti-matter anhialation maybe ] to warp and/or manipulate space/time/gravity, to give a perception of FTL
I didn't say it invalidated space/time warping manipulation, I said that if space/time can be manipulated in the way they are talking about then that would contravene the law of conservation of momentum, which would mean a complete re-write of the entire theory of physics as it now stands.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:22 PM   #52
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e.g. they talk about accellerating without applying a reactive force.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


The energy [at least according to Star Trek] is obtained via anti matter, matter anhialtion.
But we also have other means possible including ZPE, and or an as yet undiscovered "new physics"



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
Originally Posted by B.C.
JPL has been working on the manipulation of space/time as a means of propulsion for a couple of decades
Ref?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I actually thought the work JPL did was well known....
From the article...

Historically, gravity has been studied in the general sense, but not very much from the point of view of seeking propulsion breakthroughs. With the newly formed NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Physics program, that situation is changing.

Your's truly was at the JPL Lab and work site outside LA just recently
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:24 PM   #53
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I actually thought the work JPL did was well known.... It may well be, but not by me.

Got a link?
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:27 PM   #54
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The energy [at least according to Star Trek] is obtained via anti matter, matter anhialtion.
But we also have other means possible including ZPE, and or an as yet undiscovered "new physics" It's not the source of the energy that concerns me.

It's getting an action without an equal and opposite reaction.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:30 PM   #55
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It may well be, but not by me.

Got a link?
That's OK...Not everyone is a fanatic like me. -)


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/work/index.cfm
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:37 PM   #56
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It's not the source of the energy that concerns me.

It's getting an action without an equal and opposite reaction.
The energy obtainable [in standard theoretical warp drives] manipulates the space/time in front of the ship and shoves it out behind....

The other method is creating a "bubble" of space/time around the ship, which is driven [the ship and space/time bubble] through the large scale space/time....Being sspace/time it isn't governed by the law of 'c"

Not sure if that explains it.

Anyway I need to be off...
Will return in an hour or so and see what's happening.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:43 PM   #57
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That's OK...Not everyone is a fanatic like me. -)


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/work/index.cfm
I had a quick look through all their projects and they all seem very practical. I didn't see anything about manipulating space/time to provide a reaction-free method of propulsion.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:50 PM   #58
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Got a link? instead of jpl you need the glenn research centre. has a bit but not much

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/te.../ipspaper.html

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/te...warp/warp.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakth...hysics_Program
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:52 PM   #59
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http://www.asps.it/errors.htm
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:54 PM   #60
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http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/te.../warpstat.html

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/te.../ideachev.html
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