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Old 11-09-2012, 02:46 AM   #1
SallyIsNice5

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Default Isaiah 9:10 - The Harbinger - God's Judgment on America?
I heard about the book and DVD from a friend and ordered both from Amazon. (Link Below)

Just watched the DVD tonight. It is fascinating! And factually correct.


The Trailer is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvhZhGeMwoo


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Old 11-09-2012, 12:44 PM   #2
adultcheee

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I have read part of the book and seen the movie. It is eye-opening to say the least.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:08 PM   #3
AndyPharmc

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http://www.thebereancall.org/content...al-discernment
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:20 PM   #4
SallyIsNice5

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Eric thanks for posting that link. I fully expected when I started this thread that there will be naysayers on other web sites after having googled.

Have you seen the movie or read the book? I would be more interested in YOUR thoughts if you have seen the movie or read the book, rather than reading an opinion piece posted on another web site.

As DiamondLady said about the movie, "it is eye-opening to say the least."

I would like to point out that while the book is fictional based on facts, the DVD is factual.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:47 PM   #5
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I think it is the epitome of arrogance to equate the United States with God's chosen people Israel.

I watched this video with Cahn being interviewed by Sid Roth. I found it be a mixture of exaggeration, stretches, misapplication of scripture, and false prophecy.

The Berean Call article was excellent.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:53 PM   #6
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:15 PM   #7
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Was it wrong for America to want to rebuild after 9/11?
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:59 PM   #8
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I agree with CK, and agreed with the link I posted.

America is not a special covenant nation with God. Even if you argue that a nation doesn't have be in covenant like Israel; any nation that sins will suffer the same fate; still, the focus on America makes it seem either special, like other nations aren't sinning just as much or more (as we are specifying America as where this is happening), and especially that America must have been less sinful in its founding (and thus "prospered" as a "blessing" by God for it), which is not true
(and which has always been my concern. All of these "judgment on America" polemics are based on focusing on only SOME sins; especially sexual and regarding reverence or lack of to God, as determining a nation's standing before God. But there were TEN Commandments, not just two or three, and we don't get to pick and choose which ones God punishes for. To do so is to do the same exact thing as everyone else who reject the two commandments we focus on! But we're the ones who should know better! James 2:10, 11 speaks right to this issue; even down to the sins that people think determine one's righteousness or guilt).

The truth is, all nations are equally sinful, and continue exist only by grace!

I used to listen to Johnathan Cahn, and really liked him on his radio show "The Two Nice Jewish Boys" years ago. I used to make special attempt to listen to him in person and shake his hand every year, in the annual "Big Splash" event in New Jersey.
So I'm surprised he's taking scriptures to interpret modern political events, now. He used to stay out of politics and focus on the Gospel.

As Hunt says, there may be similarities (or "parallels"), but we cannot just be tearing these passages out of their original context, to apply them to America. This is the same exact thing the date-setters do. Camping, the Korean group (1992), the 1988 guy, and even cults like Armstrong and the JW's earlier on. With many convincing arguments about symbols and events in Israel in scripture that seemed so much like "more than co-incidence" when applied to our time. And none of them ever came to pass. Cahn is just leaving out any exact Second-coming date, but it's the same exact method.

With all the talk about "America", most of the people doing this preaching against it are apart of America. But they think it's everyone else in America, while they are God's spokesmen to call everyone else back in line. While this is included in the Biblical paradigm of Israel (OT prophets, and NT Christ and the Church), I think stretching it to ourselves now to this extent has blinded people into finding scriptures to vindicate their own pet issues they are unhappy with the country or world about (even if some of them might be legitimate evils; still, our focus on some of them to the near exclusion of others is what makes it "pet"); and I had fallen to this myself (though my issues were different, and I focused more on conservative and past sins, rather than liberals and present sins).

But in a sinful world, everyone will be unhappy with something (and everyone wants some sort of "freebies"; i.e. more than they have actually "earned"), and in our natures, look to blame others. That's what everyone is doing, but if those who claim to be on God's side are truly "different" from others about anything; it should be in recognizing the sinfulness (manifest through bad behavior or wrong beliefs) of all men; not just some groups.

Michael Horton's Beyond Culture Wars (don't even know if it's still in print, and was followed up by one called Christless Christianity) is an excellent treatment of the issue.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:10 PM   #9
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The fact remains that a nation will not survive with the following happening:

1. Anything goes sexuality
2. a total disregard for life...be it unborn, the aged, the infirm, or otherwise deemed lesser classes
3. Spiritual adultery
4. An economic system that is based on social injustice
5. Massive national debt


Do we see that in the history of Israel? A reading of Isaiah says yes.
Do we see that other nations in history? Yes. Look at ancient Greece and the Roman empire as examples.

In regards to this discussion:
Whether or not you think God has blessed America as a special people does not matter much.
Whether or not you think America has somehow replaced Israel does not matter much.

What lessons do we learn from history?
What correlation do we see in America today?
Do we believe God warns nations other than Israel? A reading of Jonah tells me yes.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:48 PM   #10
SallyIsNice5

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Wow, Eric, all of this rant and conclusion jumping without seeing the DVD? Amazing, it is.

I would suggest watching the DVD in its entirety first and then give a opinion. Political? If anything, it is apolitical - nothing about any certain party or president.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:14 PM   #11
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