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Old 02-01-2011, 01:27 AM   #1
Thigmaswams

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Default I just thought...
It is quite interesting. In ancient or medieval ages we called people moving from one area to another "settlers" and suddenly over time we started calling them "immigrants". what's the difference? Where did the change happen and how?
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:32 AM   #2
Green_Monkey23

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Maybe because borders these days are precise, and a nation often "belongs" to a certain people.
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:33 AM   #3
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I think one difference is that in ancient times those places where people settled were either empty or quite low populated, where as in modern times people usually immigrate into more developed densely populated places.
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:47 AM   #4
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yeah its all true, but still- e.g. in theory borders in Europe were established way over 1k years ago, but still 200 or 300 years ago people were settlers. I will not mention (even though I am mentioning) USA, where "settlers" stole the land from Native people and soon started calling the next ones immigrants.
A European man in XIX century came to USA as a "settler" and he claimed his right to do so, 200 years later a Mexican man wants to come and is illegal immigrant, nearly criminal.
I know it is a bit academic discussion, but still shows something about us people.
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:50 AM   #5
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It is quite interesting. In ancient or medieval ages we called people moving from one area to another "settlers" and suddenly over time we started calling them "immigrants". what's the difference? Where did the change happen and how?
A settler is a person who move to set thier culture and way of living on a place, an inmigrant is anyone who comes to live on an already settled place.
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:54 AM   #6
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A settler is a person who move to set thier culture and way of living on a place, an inmigrant is anyone who comes to live on an already settled place.
Yes, but have there ever been really places which had no residents, apart from the beginning of mankind?
Anyway, let's take your path and go down it- why Mexicans cannot settle in the USA? There are lots of free land in Utah or Nevada or Arizona, why cant they just take this bit of land as it used to be over centuries? Why cannot they tick a box settler instead of immigrant when come to US?
I am provoking a bit here, but its still true in a way.
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:58 AM   #7
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It is quite interesting. In ancient or medieval ages we called people moving from one area to another "settlers" and suddenly over time we started calling them "immigrants". what's the difference? Where did the change happen and how?
Romans -and subsequently romance speakers- used the word "immigrantes" and "migratio" to designate population movements.

Immigratio: they come
Emigratio: they go
Migratio: they move
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:02 AM   #8
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back then alot of places werent established as nations and had set borders or governing bodies,where as now we do.when people settled the frontiers no one was really outthere it was just wilderness.now that our governments have a wider reach over the nation,if you come here you are immigrants,because youve migrated to an already established place.as opposed to just settin up shop in the middle of no where...



my thoughts.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:06 AM   #9
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Yes but dont forget that when Europeans came to the US (or North America that time) they met American Indians, who had been there before, so the Indians owned the land and in fact Europeans were immigrants. Then they f... off the RedSkins and took over all the land and forgot that they were immigrants themselves.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:09 AM   #10
mincarlie.frymyer

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yeah its all true, but still- e.g. in theory borders in Europe were established way over 1k years ago, but still 200 or 300 years ago people were settlers. I will not mention (even though I am mentioning) USA, where "settlers" stole the land from Native people and soon started calling the next ones immigrants.
A European man in XIX century came to USA as a "settler" and he claimed his right to do so, 200 years later a Mexican man wants to come and is illegal immigrant, nearly criminal.
I know it is a bit academic discussion, but still shows something about us people.
maybe because at the time the euro's were claiming land that was until that point unclaimed,atleast by any recognized government,so it was up for the taking so to speak,even though indian folks had it first.today though we have settled all or most of the areas,and what isnt settled is still within the boundaries of the county,state,federal borders so if you cant really claim your settling it can you?


thats the point of conquest,they claim the land and set up shop,after which anyone who comes in is an immigrant.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:16 AM   #11
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maybe because at the time the euro's were claiming land that was until that point unclaimed,atleast by any recognized government,so it was up for the taking so to speak,even though indian folks had it first.today though we have settled all or most of the areas,and what isnt settled is still within the boundaries of the county,state,federal borders so if you cant really claim your settling it can you?


thats the point of conquest,they claim the land and set up shop,after which anyone who comes in is an immigrant.
Aaaah I see, now we call it "spreading democracy", thast how USA and allies "claimed unclaimed" land in Iraq and Afghanistan

So are the Iraquis now immigrants in Iraq?
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:17 AM   #12
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Yes but dont forget that when Europeans came to the US (or North America that time) they met American Indians, who had been there before, so the Indians owned the land and in fact Europeans were immigrants. Then they f... off the RedSkins and took over all the land and forgot that they were immigrants themselves.
though i agree it was fucked up how alot of the europeans went about getting the land i cant really blame them for wanting to come over in the first place.the first euro's over here were trying to escape the iron grip so to speak of england and to make something of themselves...and after 6 months or whatever sailing through treacherous waters...i mean i wouldnt turn back after that.i cant blame the first europeans for setting up shop,because thats in human nature,to try to find new and better horizons and whatnot.but then after the government was established they saw it less about trying to just get theirs and more about obtaining power and wealth and fucked alot of people over in the end.

the idea of fighting for lands doesnt bother me really,because thats what we do.but not honoring treaties and killing kids and women and the elderly,and massacring people isnt cool.and thats where my issue with it is.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:19 AM   #13
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though i agree it was fucked up how alot of the europeans went about getting the land i cant really blame them for wanting to come over in the first place.the first euro's over here were trying to escape the iron grip so to speak of england and to make something of themselves...and after 6 months or whatever sailing through treacherous waters...i mean i wouldnt turn back after that.i cant blame the first europeans for setting up shop,because thats in human nature,to try to find new and better horizons and whatnot.but then after the government was established they saw it less about trying to just get theirs and more about obtaining power and wealth and fucked alot of people over in the end.

the idea of fighting for lands doesnt bother me really,because thats what we do.but not honoring treaties and killing kids and women and the elderly,and massacring people isnt cool.and thats where my issue with it is.
Yeah, l can relate to this and agree with you about this human and prosaic aspect of the things.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:20 AM   #14
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Yes but dont forget that when Europeans came to the US (or North America that time) they met American Indians, who had been there before, so the Indians owned the land and in fact Europeans were immigrants. Then they f... off the RedSkins and took over all the land and forgot that they were immigrants themselves.
Indians didn't own shit imo,they were in the stone age when europeans came. At best they had some tribes and were killing each other happily like primitives. But you can bitch that americans did indeed steal very large amounts of land from a sovereign state - Mexico.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:21 AM   #15
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Who cares about a bunch of savagers. ~_~
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:24 AM   #16
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Who cares about a bunch of savagers. ~_~
You are talking about European Settlers obviously?

---------- Post added 2011-01-31 at 19:26 ----------

Indians didn't own shit imo,they were in the stone age when europeans came. At best they had some tribes and were killing each other happily like primitives. But you can bitch that americans did indeed steal very large amounts of land from a sovereign state - Mexico.
They were just relaxed and trusted people thats how they owned the land, no papers, spoken agreements instead, man of honour counts a word more than a paper, init?
And then white pricks came with their papers, lawyers and signatures and screwed it all up hahaha.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:27 AM   #17
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You are talking about European Settlers obviously?
No, I do not fancy preferring primitive tribesmen over civilisation. :3
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:31 AM   #18
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They were just relaxed and trusted people thats how they owned the land, no papers, spoken agreements instead, man of honour counts a word more than a paper, init?
And then white pricks came with their papers, lawyers and signatures and screwed it all up hahaha.
i was under the impression that the natives were fighting over land way before we got here..i think there is this myth that all native peoples were all sitting around a big bon fire singing and holding hands and shit.indians were people too,and fought and had land disputes like everyone else.its human nature to try to get the best you can get.

idk if they had bounderies,but i assume they did,atleast natural ones to mark their tribal territory and shit.and there was probably alot of land disputes over that.so it wasnt peachy before europeans arrived either..[COLOR="Silver"]
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:33 AM   #19
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если ваш перевод этой вашей геев в прикладом и, как boys2men для пения в Вашем автомобиле на диски домой из гей-бар
Stop using translators because it sucks badly.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:35 AM   #20
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hahaha i know.i didnt know google had a translator feature and wanted to use it.it failed badly though hahaha.
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