[Evsltkzl]

its a we we we world nowadays and everybody a VIP so nobody going to hold any doors for anybody anymore and even if you BUY it there is no THANK YOU as what it used to be.

cheers

[QysnZWB4]

Hmm this probably the v.narrow point of view survey, many thais have this coutesy also anyway don't forget this bangkok is just have build new building and all departmentstore and eating out just boom not even full 20 years so people still not used to public manner like western do also. If someone dare to compare and rank us in the top 20 of lag of courtesy. That's good for this article to remind the education department to add all this city life courtesy in some lesson. Thanks for all foreigner that interesting in thailand and mention that indeed.

Tassamona

[QysnZWB4]

Nice article to ring the bell about the must known courtesy in city life such as the door opening and etc. Sorry we're underdevellop country just have building and departmentstore in quantity not even 30 years yet so that kind of manner still not used to for some people and this kind of public manner is from british actually .. if you use your standard you should make it compare to each city of your country better... And how many country you can really research? and tell me the detail how they process the research also. doubt that.

[psbiuigw]

Empty acts of courtesy such as the 7 Eleven greeting I can live without. The unmotivated, genuine kindness I have seen in Thailand on the other hand, is something very special.

Now I agree it'd be great if people could hold up the door for me, but I have also learned to not expect it - because it is obviously not one of the things kids are taught here. The term *common* courtesy is useless in trying to look at Thailand. This *common* courtesy does not even look the same between European countries - Swedes thank their tobacconist twice when paying, the Aussies once at most. Englishmen always say 'sorry' after bumping into someone, Swedes don't. Etc.

If you are not taught it, you cannot be expected to practice it.

[movlabc]

Reminds me of the time when i met an old Farang couple who were travelling.

For half an hour 'the wife' gave me a complete rundown on the rudeness of the Thais. The classic of all was this "Do you know those drivers in Bangkok have no respect for any pedestrian. For twenty friggin minutes we were stood at a zebra crossing and not one of them stopped for us to cross the road!"

Obviously, they hadn't realized that drivers DON'T automatically stop for pedestrians to cross the road at the nation's zebra crossings!

I reckon those guys and girls from Readers Digest hadn't done any prior research on such differences too !

[ireleda]

even if it was a law, which it might be,,You will have no laws obeyed without law enforcement,, they are putting in ped. crossings and say they are going to enforce it in CM. now, but thats what they always say.

[ireleda]

OK, so then you think that courtesy and respect mean a total lack of consideration for everyone but yourself.

I got it now, maybe with the right training I can become courteous and respectful too..

What a load of bullocks.

But it seems they were talking about what goes on in the citys, not what a few farang do there..

[movlabc]

What Common Courtesy is to Readers Digest is what they have been conditioned to think.

There is where this survey is flawed, it is full of western concepts of 'courtesy'. ie.. turning down the music for respect of your neighbours privacy or saying thank you to the waitress etc....

It is rude in this article to write 'lack of civility', that's typical of the usual western and especially American mentality of 'We are better than you - you are weird'.

Farangs lack courtesy in plenty of ways which Thais would consider 'lack of civility' ie..walking along a street shirtless while scoffing a hamburger in 3 bites and then sticking a toothpick in yer mouth for everyone to see.

Did Readers Digest think about these 'vulgarities' when making the survey? Of course not!

What a loada crappo!

[LasTins]

it's not a question of time, it's the question of effort. if kids hear and see the same rules of conduct at school and at home, it will work. if the teacher shouts when the kid kicks someone but the parents don't mind, though it would just take two words, we are heading into trouble. most kids spend a lot more time at school than at home, but they still do need the odd word or warning from their parents too.

[LasTins]

btw, Steve I think you are right. I had a very similar conversation this week with a bunch of English colleagues who have amazingly been here for years and one of them even has a Thai (Karen) husband, but they said they had never seen a good-mannered Thai. the complaints ranged from one of them being told all the time straight to her face that she is fat and ugly (she indeed is) to all the pushing and traffic chaos mentioned in the article above. I was trying to suggest that my impression is Thais don't mean to be offensive at all, they don't lie to you and then stab you in the back (most of the time). that I prefer a Thai shopkeeper telling me with a big smile "have bigbig size for you" to a European shopkeeper smiling at me as if contemplating some disgusting worm, but I couldn't get the idea across. I guess Brits tend to have a superiority complex, this mind that put them on a track of colonising half the world.... the American colleagues are much more relaxed. (but I don't want to overgeneralise.)

but apart from culture-specific ways of being polite, there must be some universal values too. I would say not kicking others and listening to others are amongst them for a start.

I didn't mean to complain about Thais in general, I don't think they are rude. you just have to get used to having the doors shut in your face and forget about it. however, there are some really scary patterns in this middle-class school where I'm teaching. I think it has to do with the general spoiling of kids.

[ireleda]

A real shame isn't it that Parents can not take time to raise kids and still wonder why the world is going to hell.

If you do not have the time or energy to raise a kid with respect and consideration for others then you should leave the breeding to those who do.

This country and Mexico show a great deal of likeness, in both manners of people, their work ethics, their gross output and GNP, how the kids are raised and what the future looks like, How do you expect to have a great and productive/powerful country when everyone just thinks of himself is beyond me.

[ireleda]

Farangs lack courtesy in plenty of ways which Thais would consider 'lack of civility' ie..walking along a street shirtless while scoffing a hamburger in 3 bites and then sticking a toothpick in yer mouth for everyone to see How would you rate someone setting in a food shop or on a bus digging around in his nose, thoroughly inspecting everything he dug out and wiping it on his pants leg before going mining for some more for 30 min. before packing his nose with menthol/eucalyptus oil???

[movlabc]

bI was trying to suggest that my impression is Thais don't mean to be offensive at all, they don't lie to you and then stab you in the back (most of the time). that I prefer a Thai shopkeeper telling me with a big smile "have bigbig size for you" to a European shopkeeper smiling at me as if contemplating some disgusting worm, but I couldn't get the idea across..

A lot of the courtesy where i am from is just 'fake'. For all the waitresses, shop assts you come across with their "Thank you very much Sir" etc.... is just part of the job.

Let's talk about some courtesy you come across in Thailand which you seldom if ever see in Farangland:

Let's presume:

i'm in London or Paris! Not speaking a word of the local language and completely lost while looking for the Post Office, a kind local Cockney or Parisian comes up (can hardly speak a word of Thai) and actually walks me there and says, on leaving "Welcome to Europe"!

I'm in New York Walking down a back street I come across a few of the black-skinned looking locals drinking cans of beer and eating chips. One shouts out "Hey, where are you going? please join us for a a beer. By the way do you like American woman? I know a few that would just love you!"

You are in Glasgow/Scotland You leave a bar at 2 O'Clock in the morning completely pished. Outside of the bar you bump into a few of the local lassies. You stare them up and down and after you get told to get lost, you continue harassing them and ask them to go back and sleep with you. A few local lads come up and tell you nicely "I think you should go home, have a good sleep and come back tomorrow"

What is this in comparison to FiP's disenchantment with Thais and jumping queues?

In fact, you will find that Thais are more often more courteous to foreigners than they are their own people.

(FiP Quote) "How would you rate someone setting in a food shop or on a bus digging around in his nose, thoroughly inspecting everything he dug out and wiping it on his pants leg before going mining for some more for 30 min. before packing his nose with menthol/eucalyptus oil???"

How would you rate a Farang on a bus who sticks their feet in the air for everyone to inspect the bottom of their shoes?

That's what i am getting at 'FiP' what you consider quite natural, Thais consider rude.
Sticking your finger up your nose on a bus in Thailand, is as bad as biting you nails.
Vice-versa.

[ireleda]

Not only BKK, that includes even the smaller places as well, seems to be even worse than China to me,, especially the not holding door from smashing into someones face behind you and the forcing ahead of others waiting in line.
Kind of a "I am more important than you" attitude.. but it is also prevalent in the driving of motor vehicles that makes travel so dangerous in Thailand..

[KukkoDrukko]

I must say that I'm quite confused about this whole thread. Admittedly I have not spent much time in Thai cities, but Thailand feels like a courteous and gentle place to me, as does Japan. (Thailand does feel a little less organised at times...). I love Hong Kong and China, but I feel a distinct drop in the courtesy meter there.

It's more the attitudes that I'm picking up on, rather than specific actions. As Steve says, many of these are so culturally dependent that they are meaningless. In China, for example, saying thank you (even in Chinese) to a waitress just seems to confuse her. People just don't seem to do that.

[Depolit]

The article is sorta flawed from a global perspective. From an Asian city's point of view, the top 5 cities could be the bottom 5 for politeness and courtesy.

As far as door slamming, getting pushed off the bus, and a sense of not helping people you don't know, I notice this sometimes too.

A dark-skinned, female, construction worker gets onto the BTS Skytrain and stands behind an older woman in a business suit and a pearl necklace. The construction worker drops her one of many bags she is holding and has a clearly difficult time readhing for the bag. Why won't a lady in a suit help her?

The same reason Betti's student knew it was ok to kick the maid. The same reason many Chulalongkorn University students have never taken a city bus, but almost all Kaesart students have. The reason why a successful business man wouldn't feel right using a 2nd hand, cheap mobile phone. Thai society has a system of social class and it really matters how you appear to others in public. Holding a door for somebody you don't know, picking things up off of the ground, are both "common" manners in the West that would seem uncomfortable and unnecessary here.

Or maybe we just don't get it... right?

[blackjackblax]

Courtesy? What a load of old cobblers!
29th June 2006
The Nation

Get upset when people push past you to pile into a lift before you've had a chance to get out first? Disappointed when strangers refuse to say "thanks" when you hold open a door for them?

How about people chatting during a movie? Or who jump in front of you in a queue?

These sorts of small but tiringly irksome incidents are far too common in Bangkok, it would seem. Indeed, our so-called "City of Angels" has received a devil of a ranking in a survey by Reader's Digest of the the levels of courtesy shown to researchers in major cities around the world.

"This was the world's biggest real-life test of common courtesy," said Kaidsuda Suriyayos, managing editor of Reader's Digest Sansara Thai edition.

"Our researchers conducted more than 2,000 separate tests of actual behaviour, producing results that were both revealing and thought-provoking."

Out of 35 cities around the world, Bangkok came 25th in the magazine's latest survey, conducted to find out more about the "dying art" of courtesy.

The magazine's reporters were dispatched to different corners of the world to assess politeness in the most populous city in 35 countries. In every location, they staged scenarios to see if people would hold open a door, say "thank you" after making a sale in a shop, and help someone pick up papers dropped in a busy location. Points were awarded for polite responses, and the results for each city tallied and compared.

But don't worry, Bangkokians, you are hardly alone in lacking courtesy. Residents of Moscow and Bucharest also ranked very low on the global list.

A woman who failed to hold a door in Moscow quipped: "I'm not a doorman. It's not my job to hold doors. If someone gets hurt, they should be quicker on their feet."

In Bangkok, a teenage girl entering a crowded department store let the door swing back without looking behind. "I've never glanced back to hold doors for others before; this kind of behaviour is not common for me," she told the researcher.

One consolation for Bangkokians fearful of our lack of civility - our neighbours are equally as uncouth. The magazine said that eight out of nine Asian cities finished in the bottom 11.

Worldwide, New York topped the list for the most courteous residents, followed by Zurich, Toronto, Berlin, Zagreb and Sao Paulo, respectively.

Reader's Digest quoted Niwes Kanthairaj, a renowned columnist on social affairs, as saying: "The effort to develop generosity is not enough. People tend to forget to be considerate, to be concerned for other's feelings, which is part of basic manners in a society."

The survey results will be published in the Reader's Digest next month. The magazine claims it is the most extensive global collaboration in its 84-year history.

Duangporn Bodart

[LasTins]

Steve, I agree, on the whole. I have much better experiences with Thais than with farangs in Eastern Farangland especially. it is partly upbringing, but now that I come to think of it, I remember a very shy farang complaining why Thais cannot mind their own business and why they stare and ask questions from strangers, whereas other farangs enjoy these more relaxed contacts. it is not only your culture but also your personality what you make of stares and touches and comments and laughs. a few examples. my landlady invariably digs into my shopping bags if she's at the reception when I arrive. a stranger lying on the next massage mat at a temple started to chat with me and when she heard about my situation, she set up the job interview for me that got me this job. our housekeeping manager at school, Ajarn Mae, keeps hugging teachers when she is explaining something - the kind of hug you get from your mum when you're sobbing at the age of eight, and it completely freaks most farang teachers out. if you as a person don't feel comfortable with such personal contact, you tend to consider it rude. I know that many things are supposed to be rude in the country I come from, but I don't mind at all, because I try not to judge anything here by those standards. there are a couple of things that reeeeaaallllyyy get on my nerves (top of the list: parents who go to the director directly with any small question or problem before asking me to clarify a minor point about books or homework, they just smile at me and would never say a word), but I do understand that it is not malice or anything personal against me. In Thailand, on average I am treated as a human being more often than in Farangland. but others feel otherwise though they get the same stares and comments and laughs and questions.

what really bugs me is that I cannot quite fit this idea of spoiling children into the general framework of relationships and conduct as I perceive it (no, it is far from a posh upper-class school).

[ireleda]

Mike, I think that courtesy should be the watchword.
That seems to me to be the main thing that is lacking here, none is ever shown to anyone, not even from a child to an elder or parent, holding a door from hitting someone in the face is just common courtesy, not passing on a blind curve or driving the wrong way on a street is common courtesy, besides being the law. Unless your standing puts you above the law..
In some countrys courtesy is not shown to lower caste or classes, why should I, I am better than them, Why should I stay in line and wait for my turn at the teller, I am better than them, which seems to be the thoughts of most Thai, If you are with them, they will show respect, but if not, then you do not deserve consideration.

[Virosponna]

if you realy want to see common courtesy go home and stop complaining .just leave keys your under the mat of big farang house for me thankyou