Colloquial Tamil - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**doctorzlo** · 11-15-2005, 07:00 AM

Topic started by

punnahai (@ d221-216-99.systems.cogeco.net) on Thu Jun 20 18:39:20 .

How many variations of colloquial tamil do we have and what are they? How do they differ from each other in terms of words, pronounciation, etc.?

**Ifroham4** · 01-26-2006, 07:00 AM

In some Tamil news articles I read "vIrappan oLinthuLLa idam...."

Apparently they've used 'oLi' to denote hide.

But as I learnt in school ( as I recall)
oLi means light or anything to do with brightness
and
ozhi means hide/or destroy or wipe out etc.
and
oli means sound!

Please comment!
PS: I've seen several differnt articles or books using 'oLi' to denote hiding. So a typo is ruled out.

**radikal** · 06-18-2006, 07:00 AM

>>But as I learnt in school ( as I recall)

**Peptobismol** · 11-28-2005, 07:00 AM

So oLi is used for hide too, that's weird! I need to check on that!
You see we didn't retain the correct pronounciation of zhi (some exceptions) so this confusion!

I dind't ask any adivice on correcting this problem did I? Anyways' thanks for your shortsighted quick advice!
Learning Tamil is a lifelong joyous activity, that can be achieved through various means (including schooling) and at various paces!

Also I didn't learn all of them wrong did I!
Only some fraction! Still I never claimed to be a Tamil pandit. I am aware of my limited Tamil knowledge and the need to improve it!

**Big A** · 05-18-2006, 07:00 AM

>>So oLi is used for hide too, that's weird! I need to check on that!
You see we didn't retain the correct pronounciation of zhi (some exceptions) so this confusion>Only some fraction! Still I never claimed to be a Tamil pandit. I am aware of my limited Tamil knowledge and the need to improve it!

**brraverishhh** · 05-22-2006, 07:00 AM

punnahai,

But maRai(veda) has possible meaning as the true meanings are decoded(hidden), thus a wise only understands it. Or (hide) make it not so accessible to the general public!

I guess there could be exceptions where one word could mean two (or more ) differnt things that are close to opposites!

**9mm_fan** · 01-11-2006, 07:00 AM

The following excerpts from N.Ganesan's writings might explain why some people thought h (I prounouce as similar to h) and others thought g.

"...When I talk of 'hard' consonant 'k' becoming soft '*h*', there is
a qualification. It is not english h, There is little of english
g in *h* too. Can we denote it as 'g-h' or a weighted average
(0.7h + 0.3g)?? Similarly, When I talk of 'hard' consonant 'c'
becoming soft '*s*', there is a qualification. It is not english s,
There is little of english c in *s* too. Can we denote it as 'c-s'
or a weighted average (0.7s + 0.3c)?? *TR* = (0.2T + 0.8R);
*DR* = (0.2D + 0.8R), I think. Have seen Toronto transcribed as
RoraaNTO, observe the TR sound in "Ro" of RoraaNTO.
Also, Peter is transcribed as piiRRar, not as piiTTar.
The 'T' in *TR* is like english 't' as in Peter, an alveolar.
Definitely not a retroflex. ..."

**Ifroham4** · 03-15-2006, 07:00 AM

Punnahai:

As you may aware, in Southern part of TN people say colloquially (RMT dists),

angittu, ingittu (for that side or this side)

but in the northern part people say

"anthandai" "inthandai".

I am from South and I was not aware of the latter ones and felt like laughing especially when I was speaking to a friend a friend of mine, who is from the north and thinks that their Tamil is better than southern Tamil though she speaks Telugu at home (in fact, horrible TeluNgu at home and which is their mother tongue)

Obviously, I feel Northern people are always cocky and think that they speak better Tamil than South. (Hope u are not originally from northern part of TN!!!)

MY friend started criticizing the southern Tamil,

angittu ingittu - why do you people talk like this and so on so forth.

and was telling me as if "anthandai" "inthandai" are better than ""angittu or ingittu"".

Do you agree with her or not?

Sounds like you grew up in Madras. So you may join with the northern people and turn me down here. Hi, this is a joke!

Again the question is which one sounds better or more sensible colloquial Tamil?

**MannoFr** · 05-09-2006, 07:00 AM

kongu tamizh sounds sweet and respectful.

**Ifroham4** · 12-31-2006, 09:10 PM

what about Jaffna thamizh?

**Fegasderty** · 03-23-2007, 10:57 AM

what about Jaffna thamizh?

You'll find a lot of information about Yazh Tamil on the Tamil Wikipedia:

http://ta.wikipedia.org/wiki/யாழ்ப்ப...ழ்

Enjoy

One point which that article doesn't mention is that the Jaffna Tamil pronunciation of ற்ற as -tt-, ன்ற as -nd- (i.e, மூன்று is pronounced as "mundu") and ற் as -t- (கற்பு is pronounced as katpu) are in accordance with the way Tamil was spoken in the Sangam period. The pronounciation we are used to in Tamil Nadu - as -ttr-, -ndr- and -r- - is a change that our Tamil underwent during the Vijayanagar period, but it did not affect Jaffna.

A second point is that the special Jaffna Tamil past tense forms like "செய்தவன்" instead of standard Tamil "செய்தான்" are actually a perfective tense, which was common in Sangam Tamil. It is no longer used in TN or in written Tamil, but it still exists in colloquial Tamil in Jaffna.

**MannoFr** · 05-25-2006, 07:00 AM

It goes to say TAMIZH in its original form is greatly preserved in jaffna than in TN!

**Drugmachine** · 03-23-2007, 03:46 PM

It goes to say TAMIZH in its original form is greatly preserved in jaffna than in TN!

That is because of lesser sanscrit influence there.

**Drugmachine** · 03-23-2007, 04:20 PM

Well the website talks about

hindustani(hindi?), parsi, urdu, arabic and what not influence on tamizh in TN ! (not just sanskrit)!

Also, the website talks bout

DUTCH, PORTUGESE, influence in jaffna tamizh, (apart from English). I still wonder IF JAFFNA tamizh would not have any inflence of SINHALESE at all

The percentage of influence might matter. Inspite of so much influence, jaffna tamizh remains non-shaken to the extent of TN and still retains MORE in its original form !

**Drugmachine** · 03-23-2007, 05:59 PM

DUTCH, PORTUGESE, influence in jaffna tamizh, (apart from English). I still wonder IF JAFFNA tamizh would not have any inflence of SINHALESE at all

All i know is, that we have some words in common, but they aint from Sinhalese's. those r Portuguese(mostly) words.

Some Sinhalese words used in Jaffna thamizh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan_wo...i_Lankan_Tamil

The percentage of influence might matter. Inspite of so much influence, jaffna tamizh remains non-shaken to the extent of TN and still retains MORE in its original form !

it wont last longer, i guess!

It goes to say TAMIZH in its original form is greatly preserved in jaffna than in TN!

Podalai anna:

for that link, never seen it before

**Slonopotam845** · 03-23-2007, 06:19 PM

Thamizhil Wikipedia ullathathenbathu enakku inraikku thaan theriyavanthathu!!

Podalangai-ku nanri!

Enakku sattru pidikkatha kaai thaan athu endraalum nam Manra podalangai ellorukkum pidithey aagavendum!!!

**MannoFr** · 03-23-2007, 09:27 PM

udambu iLaikka virumbupavarkaL virumbi uNNavENdiya kaay! kadalai paruppu sErthu vEga vaiththu seeragam, uLuntham paruppu, chinna vengaayam, vaththal, karuvEppilai thaaLiththu samaiththa curry yummy!

**radikal** · 03-23-2007, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Shakthiprabha DUTCH, PORTUGESE, influence in jaffna tamizh, (apart from English). I still wonder IF JAFFNA tamizh would not have any inflence of SINHALESE at all

All i know is, that we have some words in common, but they aint from Sinhalese's. those r Portuguese(mostly) words.

Some Sinhalese words used in Jaffna thamizh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan_wo...i_Lankan_Tamil

The percentage of influence might matter. Inspite of so much influence, jaffna tamizh remains non-shaken to the extent of TN and still retains MORE in its original form !

it wont last longer, i guess!

It goes to say TAMIZH in its original form is greatly preserved in jaffna than in TN!

Podalai anna:

for that link, never seen it before

wow crazy. interesting link.

All said n done, Ive always believed jaffna tamizh sounds relatively retaining its texture.!

11-15-2005, 07:00 AM	#1
doctorzlo Join Date Jun 2006 Posts 4,488 Senior Member	Colloquial Tamil Topic started by punnahai (@ d221-216-99.systems.cogeco.net) on Thu Jun 20 18:39:20 . How many variations of colloquial tamil do we have and what are they? How do they differ from each other in terms of words, pronounciation, etc.? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-26-2006, 07:00 AM	#2
Ifroham4 Join Date Apr 2007 Posts 5,196 Senior Member	In some Tamil news articles I read "vIrappan oLinthuLLa idam...." Apparently they've used 'oLi' to denote hide. But as I learnt in school ( as I recall) oLi means light or anything to do with brightness and ozhi means hide/or destroy or wipe out etc. and oli means sound! Please comment! PS: I've seen several differnt articles or books using 'oLi' to denote hiding. So a typo is ruled out. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

06-18-2006, 07:00 AM	#3
radikal Join Date Oct 2005 Age 55 Posts 4,523 Senior Member	>>But as I learnt in school ( as I recall) Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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11-28-2005, 07:00 AM	#4
Peptobismol Join Date Oct 2005 Age 59 Posts 4,386 Senior Member	So oLi is used for hide too, that's weird! I need to check on that! You see we didn't retain the correct pronounciation of zhi (some exceptions) so this confusion! I dind't ask any adivice on correcting this problem did I? Anyways' thanks for your shortsighted quick advice! Learning Tamil is a lifelong joyous activity, that can be achieved through various means (including schooling) and at various paces! Also I didn't learn all of them wrong did I! Only some fraction! Still I never claimed to be a Tamil pandit. I am aware of my limited Tamil knowledge and the need to improve it! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-18-2006, 07:00 AM	#5
Big A Join Date Oct 2005 Age 51 Posts 4,148 Administrator	>>So oLi is used for hide too, that's weird! I need to check on that! You see we didn't retain the correct pronounciation of zhi (some exceptions) so this confusion>Only some fraction! Still I never claimed to be a Tamil pandit. I am aware of my limited Tamil knowledge and the need to improve it! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-22-2006, 07:00 AM	#6
brraverishhh Join Date Jan 2006 Posts 5,127 Senior Member	punnahai, But maRai(veda) has possible meaning as the true meanings are decoded(hidden), thus a wise only understands it. Or (hide) make it not so accessible to the general public! I guess there could be exceptions where one word could mean two (or more ) differnt things that are close to opposites! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-11-2006, 07:00 AM	#7
9mm_fan Join Date May 2007 Age 54 Posts 5,191 Senior Member	The following excerpts from N.Ganesan's writings might explain why some people thought h (I prounouce as similar to h) and others thought g. "...When I talk of 'hard' consonant 'k' becoming soft 'h', there is a qualification. It is not english h, There is little of english g in h too. Can we denote it as 'g-h' or a weighted average (0.7h + 0.3g)?? Similarly, When I talk of 'hard' consonant 'c' becoming soft 's', there is a qualification. It is not english s, There is little of english c in s too. Can we denote it as 'c-s' or a weighted average (0.7s + 0.3c)?? TR = (0.2T + 0.8R); DR = (0.2D + 0.8R), I think. Have seen Toronto transcribed as RoraaNTO, observe the TR sound in "Ro" of RoraaNTO. Also, Peter is transcribed as piiRRar, not as piiTTar. The 'T' in TR is like english 't' as in Peter, an alveolar. Definitely not a retroflex. ..." Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-15-2006, 07:00 AM	#8
Ifroham4 Join Date Apr 2007 Posts 5,196 Senior Member	Punnahai: As you may aware, in Southern part of TN people say colloquially (RMT dists), angittu, ingittu (for that side or this side) but in the northern part people say "anthandai" "inthandai". I am from South and I was not aware of the latter ones and felt like laughing especially when I was speaking to a friend a friend of mine, who is from the north and thinks that their Tamil is better than southern Tamil though she speaks Telugu at home (in fact, horrible TeluNgu at home and which is their mother tongue) Obviously, I feel Northern people are always cocky and think that they speak better Tamil than South. (Hope u are not originally from northern part of TN!!!) MY friend started criticizing the southern Tamil, angittu ingittu - why do you people talk like this and so on so forth. and was telling me as if "anthandai" "inthandai" are better than ""angittu or ingittu"". Do you agree with her or not? Sounds like you grew up in Madras. So you may join with the northern people and turn me down here. Hi, this is a joke! Again the question is which one sounds better or more sensible colloquial Tamil? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-09-2006, 07:00 AM	#9
MannoFr Join Date Mar 2007 Posts 4,451 Senior Member	kongu tamizh sounds sweet and respectful. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-31-2006, 09:10 PM	#10
Ifroham4 Join Date Apr 2007 Posts 5,196 Senior Member	what about Jaffna thamizh? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-23-2007, 10:57 AM	#11
Fegasderty Join Date Mar 2008 Posts 5,023 Senior Member	what about Jaffna thamizh? You'll find a lot of information about Yazh Tamil on the Tamil Wikipedia: http://ta.wikipedia.org/wiki/யாழ்ப்ப...ழ் Enjoy One point which that article doesn't mention is that the Jaffna Tamil pronunciation of ற்ற as -tt-, ன்ற as -nd- (i.e, மூன்று is pronounced as "mundu") and ற் as -t- (கற்பு is pronounced as katpu) are in accordance with the way Tamil was spoken in the Sangam period. The pronounciation we are used to in Tamil Nadu - as -ttr-, -ndr- and -r- - is a change that our Tamil underwent during the Vijayanagar period, but it did not affect Jaffna. A second point is that the special Jaffna Tamil past tense forms like "செய்தவன்" instead of standard Tamil "செய்தான்" are actually a perfective tense, which was common in Sangam Tamil. It is no longer used in TN or in written Tamil, but it still exists in colloquial Tamil in Jaffna. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-25-2006, 07:00 AM	#12
MannoFr Join Date Mar 2007 Posts 4,451 Senior Member	It goes to say TAMIZH in its original form is greatly preserved in jaffna than in TN! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-23-2007, 03:46 PM	#13
Drugmachine Join Date Apr 2006 Posts 4,490 Senior Member	It goes to say TAMIZH in its original form is greatly preserved in jaffna than in TN! That is because of lesser sanscrit influence there. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-23-2007, 04:20 PM	#14
Drugmachine Join Date Apr 2006 Posts 4,490 Senior Member	Well the website talks about hindustani(hindi?), parsi, urdu, arabic and what not influence on tamizh in TN ! (not just sanskrit)! Also, the website talks bout DUTCH, PORTUGESE, influence in jaffna tamizh, (apart from English). I still wonder IF JAFFNA tamizh would not have any inflence of SINHALESE at all The percentage of influence might matter. Inspite of so much influence, jaffna tamizh remains non-shaken to the extent of TN and still retains MORE in its original form ! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-23-2007, 05:59 PM	#15
Drugmachine Join Date Apr 2006 Posts 4,490 Senior Member	DUTCH, PORTUGESE, influence in jaffna tamizh, (apart from English). I still wonder IF JAFFNA tamizh would not have any inflence of SINHALESE at all All i know is, that we have some words in common, but they aint from Sinhalese's. those r Portuguese(mostly) words. Some Sinhalese words used in Jaffna thamizh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan_wo...i_Lankan_Tamil The percentage of influence might matter. Inspite of so much influence, jaffna tamizh remains non-shaken to the extent of TN and still retains MORE in its original form ! it wont last longer, i guess! It goes to say TAMIZH in its original form is greatly preserved in jaffna than in TN! Podalai anna: for that link, never seen it before Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

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03-23-2007, 06:19 PM	#16
Slonopotam845 Join Date Jan 2006 Posts 5,251 Senior Member	Thamizhil Wikipedia ullathathenbathu enakku inraikku thaan theriyavanthathu!! Podalangai-ku nanri! Enakku sattru pidikkatha kaai thaan athu endraalum nam Manra podalangai ellorukkum pidithey aagavendum!!! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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03-23-2007, 09:27 PM	#17
MannoFr Join Date Mar 2007 Posts 4,451 Senior Member	udambu iLaikka virumbupavarkaL virumbi uNNavENdiya kaay! kadalai paruppu sErthu vEga vaiththu seeragam, uLuntham paruppu, chinna vengaayam, vaththal, karuvEppilai thaaLiththu samaiththa curry yummy! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-23-2007, 10:26 PM	#18
radikal Join Date Oct 2005 Age 55 Posts 4,523 Senior Member	Originally Posted by Shakthiprabha DUTCH, PORTUGESE, influence in jaffna tamizh, (apart from English). I still wonder IF JAFFNA tamizh would not have any inflence of SINHALESE at all All i know is, that we have some words in common, but they aint from Sinhalese's. those r Portuguese(mostly) words. Some Sinhalese words used in Jaffna thamizh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan_wo...i_Lankan_Tamil The percentage of influence might matter. Inspite of so much influence, jaffna tamizh remains non-shaken to the extent of TN and still retains MORE in its original form ! it wont last longer, i guess! It goes to say TAMIZH in its original form is greatly preserved in jaffna than in TN! Podalai anna: for that link, never seen it before wow crazy. interesting link. All said n done, Ive always believed jaffna tamizh sounds relatively retaining its texture.! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote