Gold in the DR - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**soipguibbom** · 01-12-2009, 08:21 PM

At least we are not the only ones who are complaining about it.

**we0MA4MI** · 01-12-2009, 09:00 PM

Well I'm not totally in agreement with these folks, because it sounds like they just want to do the same thing they did against the Cementera. Again I'm not against Cotui's gold being exploited, because needed jobs will be created, but I would like to see a fair, clear, enforceable contract with Barrick Gold makes a profit but also Cotui get's the cut they deserve and most importantly that at the end we're not left with our beautiful lake, mountains and rivers full of pollution

**we0MA4MI** · 02-12-2009, 07:03 PM

They are definitely not gaining the public's trust and support with actions like these.

http://comederoarriba.blogspot.com/2...erreno-de.html

Sorry in Spanish, but basically the gist of it is that Barrick is not allowing some farmers to access their Cocoa plantations. They have "bought" the land in front of these plantations and now these farmers are not allowed on their own land and as a result their crops are going to waste.

**we0MA4MI** · 04-11-2009, 10:58 PM

Regardless of what the gold price is everyone in Cotui (well those of us who care) are just astonished at the "renegotiation" of the contract that just took place, by which the Dominican government basically just gave up any income they were supposed to receive from this gold mining enterprise for at least six years. An amendment was introduced to congress (don'k know by whom) and it was passed without any resistance from anyone except the deputy and senator from Cotui.

Listen to this...Barrick will give The DR any money only after they have recouped all of their investments (estimated at about 2700 million USD) and only after they are making at least 10% net profit. So in reality the government could in effect get Zero, nothing, zippo from this if Barrick turns out to not have at least a 10% net profit once they've recouped all of their investments. This is ridiculous beyond belief...

Imagine you own a huge pile of gold only it's buried and needs extracting. You may not have the equipment to extract it yourself, but I'm pretty sure nobody is going to say "Mr. extractor all of this gold is now yours and you can pay me something once you get every penny you spent to buy the equipment, train people, etc and then and only then you can give me some money if you so desire...". This makes me so angry because in this negotiation WE should have the power. WE are the ones with the nonrenewable resource (gold). We probably could have hired Barrick to extract this gold for us instead of just giving to them...

**Kimeoffessyr** · 04-11-2009, 11:08 PM

The DR will not get paid but I wouldn't be surprised if somebody already has been paid or will be in the future.

Regardless of what the gold price is everyone in Cotui (well those of us who care) are just astonished at the "renegotiation" of the contract that just took place, by which the Dominican government basically just gave up any income they were supposed to receive from this gold mining enterprise for at least six years. An amendment was introduced to congress (don'k know by whom) and it was passed without any resistance from anyone except the deputy and senator from Cotui.

Listen to this...Barrick will give The DR any money only after they have recouped all of their investments (estimated at about 2700 million USD) and only after they are making at least 10% net profit. So in reality the government could in effect get Zero, nothing, zippo from this if Barrick turns out to not have at least a 10% net profit once they've recouped all of their investments. This is ridiculous beyond belief...

Imagine you own a huge pile of gold only it's buried and needs extracting. You may not have the equipment to extract it yourself, but I'm pretty sure nobody is going to say "Mr. extractor all of this gold is now yours and you can pay me something once you get every penny you spent to buy the equipment, train people, etc and then and only then you can give me some money if you so desire...". This makes me so angry because in this negotiation WE should have the power. WE are the ones with the nonrenewable resource (gold). We probably could have hired Barrick to extract this gold for us instead of just giving to them...

**JEWELMARGY** · 04-11-2009, 11:26 PM

So much for negotiations and the Desarrollo of Sanchez Ramirez Province....

Bonao did so much better. It is a shame that there was not, apparently any time to get the people together to protest this violently. Perhaps something can be done before "Lord Leonel" puts his signature on the thing../????

Good luck..

HB

**we0MA4MI** · 04-11-2009, 11:57 PM

I've put in a request to Nuria to do a piece on this. I doubt if she will though given the stuff that's going on right now with death of her friend Micky Breton and the beating and subsequent shooting up of the house of Franklin Guerrero (who works for her) for taking pictures of the largest drug distributor in Santo Domingo who got arrested this week. La República - Franklin Guerrero: ?La **** de los narcotraficantes es conseguir el silencio?

I'm sure these will be topic number one on her next program.

**JEWELMARGY** · 07-11-2009, 08:33 PM

More fuel for the fire: I was told this morning that the lobbyist for Barrick is none other than Hans Hertel the former ambassador that seems to be all over the place these days. It was mentioned that Hans got back Amable Arity's visa for a cool 200 large....no substance, but lots of traction in Santo Domingo circles...

HB

**ptolerezort** · 07-12-2009, 05:02 AM

"Imagine you own a huge pile of gold only it's buried and needs extracting. You may not have the equipment to extract it yourself, but I'm pretty sure nobody is going to say "Mr. extractor all of this gold is now yours and you can pay me something once you get every penny you spent to buy the equipment, train people, etc and then and only then you can give me some money if you so desire...". This makes me so angry because in this negotiation WE should have the power. WE are the ones with the nonrenewable resource (gold). We probably could have hired Barrick to extract this gold for us instead of just giving to them..."

Imagine an existing ecological nightmare that would NEVER be cleaned up in any significant way unless the Dominican government got someone to buy into a SERIOUS "clean up" as well as to deal with extracting their gold from sulphide tailings.....this is not general unsophisticated hard rock gold processing as it was when the mine was first established so long ago......

**we0MA4MI** · 08-11-2009, 07:16 AM

Imagine an existing ecological nightmare that would NEVER be cleaned up in any significant way unless the Dominican government got someone to buy into a SERIOUS "clean up" as well as to deal with extracting their gold from sulphide tailings.....this is not general unsophisticated hard rock gold processing as it was when the mine was first established so long ago......

What's your point? You lost me...

**ptolerezort** · 10-11-2009, 05:47 PM

For some reason, I get the impression when I read many of these posts, that some folks believe that running these gold mines is as easy as opening up the ground with a front end loader and huge nuggets of gold roll out into the bucket....and that anyone here in this country can do it. That is just not the case.

One important reason why the DR Govt. did not/does not mine/process the gold and "keep it for the country" is that they do not (by themselves) have the expertise to mine the gold out of the sulphide tailings that were left behind as a result of the previous mining efforts at Rosario. Additionally, that area was also left with a huge ecological mess that the DR Govt. was not prepared financially to clean up. So, in order to induce someone with that expertise to come into your country and produce employment, clean up your mess, and take the risk of producing gold in a very unique processing method...you have to öffer them the incentives necessary to get the job done. Thats what the DR govt did. It was a solid decision. There was no longer an "imagining" a best case scenario when an actual worst case scenario was staring them in the face.

**soipguibbom** · 10-12-2009, 12:14 AM

While dms3611 has a point, that contract is way too steep, how about sharing 20% of ANY profits with the DR government?? that would have been a good business deal too. Somebody in the government received a huge amount of money for that deal to go through.

**Kimeoffessyr** · 10-18-2009, 05:33 PM

Below is from the Panamanian La Prensa about a Canadian company investing in a goldmine here in the DR.

Negocios

Empresa canadiense explotará mina dominicana

8:32 a.m. - SANTO DOMINGO, República Dominicana. (AP). -La empresa canadiense Barrick Gold Corpooration invertirá en lo inmediato 700 millones de dólares para explotar una mina de oro en República Dominicana, informó el sábado el gobierno.

Barrick Gold, el mayor productor de oro del mundo, proyecta una inversión total de 2 mil 700 millones de dólares en los siguientes cinco años, en la denominada mina de Pueblo Viejo, señaló el gobierno.

El presidente Leonel Fernández declaró el sábado que solicitó a la Barrick Gold que las ayudas solidarias que realice al país sean para desarrollar un instituto tecnológico en la ciudad de Cotuí, 100 kilómetros al norte de la capital, donde está ubicado el yacimiento.

Fernández manifestó su deseo de que los dominicanos puedan ir a Canadá a realizar postgrados y maestrías pagados por la minera.

"Eso nos va a permitir efectivamente contar con profesionales reconocidos de calidad mundial'', afirmó el mandatario ante dirigentes comunitarios de Cotuí. "Ellos, los directivos de la Barrick- se han comprometido conmigo de que efectivamente habrá un programa de becas para egresados de la universidad del Iteco''.

**JEWELMARGY** · 10-18-2009, 05:49 PM

So? This has been on DR1 News and Diario Libre English for quite some time.
Barrick is supposed to be reprocessing the trailings and then going in for the sulfates/sulfides??? whatever, that also have gold. A lot of ore for a tiny bit of gold, but with gold over 800 an ounce (right?) and processing under 200, they stand to make billions. They are not stupid.

Major worry is what to do with all of the sulfuric acid that results from the processing.
Something like 10,000 gallons a day according to reliable estimates. This project has been on hold since 86 for various reasons...

HB

**Kimeoffessyr** · 10-18-2009, 07:04 PM

I also had read those articles and that it was kind of still up in the air but when I read the article this morning in the Panamanian newspaper for me it became news again that I wanted to share with DR1.
Gold is already more than $1000/ounce and I do share your concerns about the pollution.

So? This has been on DR1 News and Diario Libre English for quite some time.
Barrick is supposed to be reprocessing the trailings and then going in for the sulfates/sulfides??? whatever, that also have gold. A lot of ore for a tiny bit of gold, but with gold over 800 an ounce (right?) and processing under 200, they stand to make billions. They are not stupid.

Major worry is what to do with all of the sulfuric acid that results from the processing.
Something like 10,000 gallons a day according to reliable estimates. This project has been on hold since 86 for various reasons...

HB

**lapyignipinge** · 10-18-2009, 08:37 PM

There are a number of other gold deposits in the DR that have had internation exploration companies looking at development.

**Opening-auto** · 10-19-2009, 03:01 AM

So? This has been on DR1 News and Diario Libre English for quite some time.
Barrick is supposed to be reprocessing the trailings and then going in for the sulfates/sulfides??? whatever, that also have gold. A lot of ore for a tiny bit of gold, but with gold over 800 an ounce (right?) and processing under 200, they stand to make billions. They are not stupid.

Major worry is what to do with all of the sulfuric acid that results from the processing.
Something like 10,000 gallons a day according to reliable estimates. This project has been on hold since 86 for various reasons...

HB

More like Over 1000 per ounce.

**RCQDnMp5** · 10-19-2009, 03:05 AM

More like Over 1000 per ounce.

$1053.50 to be exact!

**aparneioninny** · 10-19-2009, 05:18 AM

Barrick is already started the process of setting up all necessary equipment, personnel, etc to start full fledge operations next year. Tons of people being hired in Cotui and their trucks are all over town. They are injecting quite a bit of money into the local economy already and also driving up prices of everything specially housing which is now more expensive in Cotui than in Santiago.

**wrbwrbwrb** · 10-19-2009, 06:06 AM

Methinks that current gold prices reflect a developing bubble.
Interestingly though, gold is worth half of what it was some time in the '80's if you take inflation into account.

01-12-2009, 08:21 PM	#1
soipguibbom Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 542 Senior Member	At least we are not the only ones who are complaining about it. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-12-2009, 09:00 PM	#2
we0MA4MI Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 422 Senior Member	Well I'm not totally in agreement with these folks, because it sounds like they just want to do the same thing they did against the Cementera. Again I'm not against Cotui's gold being exploited, because needed jobs will be created, but I would like to see a fair, clear, enforceable contract with Barrick Gold makes a profit but also Cotui get's the cut they deserve and most importantly that at the end we're not left with our beautiful lake, mountains and rivers full of pollution Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

02-12-2009, 07:03 PM	#3
we0MA4MI Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 422 Senior Member	They are definitely not gaining the public's trust and support with actions like these. http://comederoarriba.blogspot.com/2...erreno-de.html Sorry in Spanish, but basically the gist of it is that Barrick is not allowing some farmers to access their Cocoa plantations. They have "bought" the land in front of these plantations and now these farmers are not allowed on their own land and as a result their crops are going to waste. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

04-11-2009, 10:58 PM	#4
we0MA4MI Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 422 Senior Member	Regardless of what the gold price is everyone in Cotui (well those of us who care) are just astonished at the "renegotiation" of the contract that just took place, by which the Dominican government basically just gave up any income they were supposed to receive from this gold mining enterprise for at least six years. An amendment was introduced to congress (don'k know by whom) and it was passed without any resistance from anyone except the deputy and senator from Cotui. Listen to this...Barrick will give The DR any money only after they have recouped all of their investments (estimated at about 2700 million USD) and only after they are making at least 10% net profit. So in reality the government could in effect get Zero, nothing, zippo from this if Barrick turns out to not have at least a 10% net profit once they've recouped all of their investments. This is ridiculous beyond belief... Imagine you own a huge pile of gold only it's buried and needs extracting. You may not have the equipment to extract it yourself, but I'm pretty sure nobody is going to say "Mr. extractor all of this gold is now yours and you can pay me something once you get every penny you spent to buy the equipment, train people, etc and then and only then you can give me some money if you so desire...". This makes me so angry because in this negotiation WE should have the power. WE are the ones with the nonrenewable resource (gold). We probably could have hired Barrick to extract this gold for us instead of just giving to them... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

04-11-2009, 11:08 PM	#5
Kimeoffessyr Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 514 Senior Member	The DR will not get paid but I wouldn't be surprised if somebody already has been paid or will be in the future. Regardless of what the gold price is everyone in Cotui (well those of us who care) are just astonished at the "renegotiation" of the contract that just took place, by which the Dominican government basically just gave up any income they were supposed to receive from this gold mining enterprise for at least six years. An amendment was introduced to congress (don'k know by whom) and it was passed without any resistance from anyone except the deputy and senator from Cotui. Listen to this...Barrick will give The DR any money only after they have recouped all of their investments (estimated at about 2700 million USD) and only after they are making at least 10% net profit. So in reality the government could in effect get Zero, nothing, zippo from this if Barrick turns out to not have at least a 10% net profit once they've recouped all of their investments. This is ridiculous beyond belief... Imagine you own a huge pile of gold only it's buried and needs extracting. You may not have the equipment to extract it yourself, but I'm pretty sure nobody is going to say "Mr. extractor all of this gold is now yours and you can pay me something once you get every penny you spent to buy the equipment, train people, etc and then and only then you can give me some money if you so desire...". This makes me so angry because in this negotiation WE should have the power. WE are the ones with the nonrenewable resource (gold). We probably could have hired Barrick to extract this gold for us instead of just giving to them... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

04-11-2009, 11:26 PM	#6
JEWELMARGY Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 499 Senior Member	So much for negotiations and the Desarrollo of Sanchez Ramirez Province.... Bonao did so much better. It is a shame that there was not, apparently any time to get the people together to protest this violently. Perhaps something can be done before "Lord Leonel" puts his signature on the thing../???? Good luck.. HB Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

04-11-2009, 11:57 PM	#7
we0MA4MI Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 422 Senior Member	I've put in a request to Nuria to do a piece on this. I doubt if she will though given the stuff that's going on right now with death of her friend Micky Breton and the beating and subsequent shooting up of the house of Franklin Guerrero (who works for her) for taking pictures of the largest drug distributor in Santo Domingo who got arrested this week. La República - Franklin Guerrero: ?La **** de los narcotraficantes es conseguir el silencio? I'm sure these will be topic number one on her next program. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-11-2009, 08:33 PM	#8
JEWELMARGY Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 499 Senior Member	More fuel for the fire: I was told this morning that the lobbyist for Barrick is none other than Hans Hertel the former ambassador that seems to be all over the place these days. It was mentioned that Hans got back Amable Arity's visa for a cool 200 large....no substance, but lots of traction in Santo Domingo circles... HB Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-12-2009, 05:02 AM	#9
ptolerezort Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 432 Senior Member	"Imagine you own a huge pile of gold only it's buried and needs extracting. You may not have the equipment to extract it yourself, but I'm pretty sure nobody is going to say "Mr. extractor all of this gold is now yours and you can pay me something once you get every penny you spent to buy the equipment, train people, etc and then and only then you can give me some money if you so desire...". This makes me so angry because in this negotiation WE should have the power. WE are the ones with the nonrenewable resource (gold). We probably could have hired Barrick to extract this gold for us instead of just giving to them..." Imagine an existing ecological nightmare that would NEVER be cleaned up in any significant way unless the Dominican government got someone to buy into a SERIOUS "clean up" as well as to deal with extracting their gold from sulphide tailings.....this is not general unsophisticated hard rock gold processing as it was when the mine was first established so long ago...... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-11-2009, 07:16 AM	#10
we0MA4MI Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 422 Senior Member	Imagine an existing ecological nightmare that would NEVER be cleaned up in any significant way unless the Dominican government got someone to buy into a SERIOUS "clean up" as well as to deal with extracting their gold from sulphide tailings.....this is not general unsophisticated hard rock gold processing as it was when the mine was first established so long ago...... What's your point? You lost me... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-11-2009, 05:47 PM	#11
ptolerezort Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 432 Senior Member	For some reason, I get the impression when I read many of these posts, that some folks believe that running these gold mines is as easy as opening up the ground with a front end loader and huge nuggets of gold roll out into the bucket....and that anyone here in this country can do it. That is just not the case. One important reason why the DR Govt. did not/does not mine/process the gold and "keep it for the country" is that they do not (by themselves) have the expertise to mine the gold out of the sulphide tailings that were left behind as a result of the previous mining efforts at Rosario. Additionally, that area was also left with a huge ecological mess that the DR Govt. was not prepared financially to clean up. So, in order to induce someone with that expertise to come into your country and produce employment, clean up your mess, and take the risk of producing gold in a very unique processing method...you have to öffer them the incentives necessary to get the job done. Thats what the DR govt did. It was a solid decision. There was no longer an "imagining" a best case scenario when an actual worst case scenario was staring them in the face. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-12-2009, 12:14 AM	#12
soipguibbom Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 542 Senior Member	While dms3611 has a point, that contract is way too steep, how about sharing 20% of ANY profits with the DR government?? that would have been a good business deal too. Somebody in the government received a huge amount of money for that deal to go through. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-18-2009, 05:33 PM	#13
Kimeoffessyr Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 514 Senior Member	Gold in the DR Below is from the Panamanian La Prensa about a Canadian company investing in a goldmine here in the DR. Negocios Empresa canadiense explotará mina dominicana 8:32 a.m. - SANTO DOMINGO, República Dominicana. (AP). -La empresa canadiense Barrick Gold Corpooration invertirá en lo inmediato 700 millones de dólares para explotar una mina de oro en República Dominicana, informó el sábado el gobierno. Barrick Gold, el mayor productor de oro del mundo, proyecta una inversión total de 2 mil 700 millones de dólares en los siguientes cinco años, en la denominada mina de Pueblo Viejo, señaló el gobierno. El presidente Leonel Fernández declaró el sábado que solicitó a la Barrick Gold que las ayudas solidarias que realice al país sean para desarrollar un instituto tecnológico en la ciudad de Cotuí, 100 kilómetros al norte de la capital, donde está ubicado el yacimiento. Fernández manifestó su deseo de que los dominicanos puedan ir a Canadá a realizar postgrados y maestrías pagados por la minera. "Eso nos va a permitir efectivamente contar con profesionales reconocidos de calidad mundial'', afirmó el mandatario ante dirigentes comunitarios de Cotuí. "Ellos, los directivos de la Barrick- se han comprometido conmigo de que efectivamente habrá un programa de becas para egresados de la universidad del Iteco''. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-18-2009, 05:49 PM	#14
JEWELMARGY Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 499 Senior Member	So? This has been on DR1 News and Diario Libre English for quite some time. Barrick is supposed to be reprocessing the trailings and then going in for the sulfates/sulfides??? whatever, that also have gold. A lot of ore for a tiny bit of gold, but with gold over 800 an ounce (right?) and processing under 200, they stand to make billions. They are not stupid. Major worry is what to do with all of the sulfuric acid that results from the processing. Something like 10,000 gallons a day according to reliable estimates. This project has been on hold since 86 for various reasons... HB Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-18-2009, 07:04 PM	#15
Kimeoffessyr Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 514 Senior Member	I also had read those articles and that it was kind of still up in the air but when I read the article this morning in the Panamanian newspaper for me it became news again that I wanted to share with DR1. Gold is already more than $1000/ounce and I do share your concerns about the pollution. So? This has been on DR1 News and Diario Libre English for quite some time. Barrick is supposed to be reprocessing the trailings and then going in for the sulfates/sulfides??? whatever, that also have gold. A lot of ore for a tiny bit of gold, but with gold over 800 an ounce (right?) and processing under 200, they stand to make billions. They are not stupid. Major worry is what to do with all of the sulfuric acid that results from the processing. Something like 10,000 gallons a day according to reliable estimates. This project has been on hold since 86 for various reasons... HB Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

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10-18-2009, 08:37 PM	#16
lapyignipinge Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 576 Senior Member	There are a number of other gold deposits in the DR that have had internation exploration companies looking at development. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-19-2009, 03:01 AM	#17
Opening-auto Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 376 Senior Member	So? This has been on DR1 News and Diario Libre English for quite some time. Barrick is supposed to be reprocessing the trailings and then going in for the sulfates/sulfides??? whatever, that also have gold. A lot of ore for a tiny bit of gold, but with gold over 800 an ounce (right?) and processing under 200, they stand to make billions. They are not stupid. Major worry is what to do with all of the sulfuric acid that results from the processing. Something like 10,000 gallons a day according to reliable estimates. This project has been on hold since 86 for various reasons... HB More like Over 1000 per ounce. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-19-2009, 03:05 AM	#18
RCQDnMp5 Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 446 Senior Member	More like Over 1000 per ounce. $1053.50 to be exact! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-19-2009, 05:18 AM	#19
aparneioninny Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 486 Senior Member	Barrick is already started the process of setting up all necessary equipment, personnel, etc to start full fledge operations next year. Tons of people being hired in Cotui and their trucks are all over town. They are injecting quite a bit of money into the local economy already and also driving up prices of everything specially housing which is now more expensive in Cotui than in Santiago. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-19-2009, 06:06 AM	#20
wrbwrbwrb Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 355 Senior Member	Methinks that current gold prices reflect a developing bubble. Interestingly though, gold is worth half of what it was some time in the '80's if you take inflation into account. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote