[Jasonstawnosaa]

I think the existence of this violence is not proof of the failure of the Surge. I think the conclusion of this violence will go a long way to determining whether the Iraqi state is becoming successful or not.

The point of the Surge was to temporarily suppress the violence such that the Iraqi state could get things together, breathe, and train its personnel to do the grunt work itself. They still need to be given rather more time to determine if they will be successful or not, in my opinion - it's not like this stuff was going to just go away.

[Asianunta]

I just wish Oerdin would post the damn articles.

Oerdin knows he and the usual suspects Patroklos are going to fight and argue over every damn word in it. It would help to have the text.

[agolutuaddiff]

Sometimes gorillas do this: Thread salvaged

[violetgorman]

Originally posted by snoopy369

The point of the Surge was to temporarily suppress the violence such that the Iraqi state could get things together, breathe, and train its personnel to do the grunt work itself. . The stated goal of the escalation was to give the Iraqi government "breathing room" in order to reach a formal political solution to the fundamental divides in the country. The Iraqi government has completely failed to achieve any meaningful progress on the political front. The militias are a direct result of these political failures. They always have been and they always will be.

[zzquo0iR]

DD, that is the best new song I have heard in a long time.

Is that Pat Benatar's guitarist I heard playing?

[Peter Hill]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Some people whine about posting articles. Who? I want names!


As to the topic at hand - I agree this is kind of in the other thread already. From your BBC article however the GWB quote bugs me.

"As we speak Iraqis are waging a tough battle against militia fighters and criminals in Basra, many of whom have received arms and training and funding from Iran," he said.

He just can't say "Iran" often enough these days can he? I would like to point out a large number of Iraqi's have "received arms and training and funding from" the US.

[hujdrftgkas]

Can't we just turn the entire region into radioactive glass, then dig for oil?

Y'know, like sensible people would.

[WomanBreast40356]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Imagine that, one side goes on the offensive and violence increases.

UNBELIEVABLE! QFT

[lookanddiscover]

Basically the government doesn't seem able to achieve the initial operational objectives and it has lost control of a third of the capital. Basically it looks like their first attempt at doing anything substantial by themselves is on the verge of failing and the US will once again have to bail them out.

Long term there will be a reckoning and the foreign troops aren't accomplishing much of anything other then delaying the explosion at tremendous cost. If you can't help change the fundamentals then why bother staying?

[Old-old-Ivy]

Maybe we should have followed through with paying the militias we bribed to come over to the government side. Nothing so ruins a plan to bribe a bunch of gunmen as failing to pay them.

[Abaronos]

Can we vote on this? I say 3 months and leave the country.

[dselectronics]

Mr al-Maliki has gambled everything on the success of Operation Saulat al-Fursan, or Charge of the Knights, to sweep illegal militias out of Basra. It has targeted neighbourhoods where the Mahdi Army dominates As I understand it, Iran favors the Badr Brigades over Sadr and his Mahdi army. I think Iran is pulling the strings, not us.

[salomal-qask]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Basically, that's an on-going theme. It's becoming alarmingly apparent that it's going to take a tyrant that squashes the life out of opposition. Another Hussein. ROTFLMAO!!!

Thus Sloww destroys the last remaining US excuse for invading Iraq in the first place!!!

[bonyrek]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Can we vote on this? I say 3 months and leave the country. No. You have to stay the course and fix the mess you started!

Not to mention the fact that running away now would be a terrible insult to the memories of the 4,000+ US soldiers that have died in this conflict - or for that matter the 30,000+ US soldiers that feel that the wounds they have received fighting for their country (in Iraq!!??? ) have been all for nothing!!!

Nice one Sloww, I thought you actually had respect for your military forces...

[thakitt]

Funny, I seem to remember a small matter of an invasion by your country on the pretext of WMDs a few years back...

If that's not starting it, I don't know what is!!!???

[sniskelsowwef]

Originally posted by Wezil
So how long until US forces intervene in the fight? This morning. U.S. helicopter gunships joined in.

[SimSlim]

Originally posted by Oerdin


That was a fundamental problem with the surge and a complete bungle by the Bush administration. The surge relayed upon bribing insurgents to put down their arms but once they did the administration, yet again, didn't make good on its promises. Now no one trusts them. Just shear incompetence.

Americans might have been dumb enough to keep believing the administration after repeatedly being lied to (we're still waiting for New Orleans to be rebuilt) but the Iraqis have basically had enough. They lied about rebuilding the electricity system, they lied about the reconstruction funds, they lied about the payments to put down arms, and just about everything else. Bush always promises big and then doesn't deliver thinking people will forget. They haven't forgotten.
No, Cheney makes up the lies, then Bush forgets they're lies by the time he announces them.