[Elaltergephah]

I'm after some opinions.

I'm interested in a career in trauma/orthopaedic surgery. However, getting a prized London job in the field is proving rather difficult.

If I'm not going to stay in London, I really don't care where else I am as long as the experience is good. So on a whim I a emailed the trauma surgery boss at a big South African regional hospital... when he got my CV he offered me a job for 1-3 years that day (must be desperate! :P). He's put me in touch with an SA government manager to help me get registered quickly to start work later this year (allowing for my current commitments). He said he'd take me on initially as a liability but I'd be handling their trauma cases (gunshots, RTAs, stabbings) alone within 6-8 months.

Personal safety (if a nutter can shoot/stab a fellow South African in the area I'm sure he'd happily shoot/stab me too given the chance!) and HIV (very relevant to surgery if you stick yourself with a needle/knife - one of my bosses in the UK said he wouldn't be brave enough to go himself) are the main things making me think twice.

On the plus side, pay is ok (a 15% or so paycut). Experience would be great. Lifestyle would be good.

If I said no I'd be looking at work in my field but likely in a part of the UK I had no previous connection to. Experience wouldn't be as good, lifestyle worse, similar pay but a lot safer... I really don't know if I'm brave enough!

What to do!?

[XangadsX]

I think you hit the nail on the head

Personal saftey and HIV.

Both of which would be enough to stop me in my tracks.

Research the area you are going to work very well imo.

[haudraufwienix]

I'd say go for it. SA isn't that bad taken you don't love to walk with your DSLR and laptop in the slums after dark. The probability of catching HIV by a minor wound doing surgery is close to nil, that wouldn't repel an adventurer!

On the other hand, SA surely is bad enough for you to get the best possible experience out of Baghdad in mending shot, fire and stabbing wounds, no doubt about that.

[bely832new]

I know a couple of colleagues from my last hospital who spent a year or two in South Africa (Cape Town)

This was about 4-5 years ago, before the MTAS debacle/****-up.

One was A&E orientated, the other General surgery.

1) Both said the experience was great.
2) Exposure to trauma was very high - RTA, stabbings, gunshot wounds, assaults, etc.
3) Pay was not as good
4) But lower living costs (albeit quality was lower too at some points, but not too bad)
5) However - they both mentioned there were times where they were literally shitting themselves when it came to personal safety.
Being attacked inside the hospital, and some altercations outside it too.
It is NOT like the UK. It's up to you whether you accept that.
Remember - you need to take your family into account too. They going to be happy with you going?
6) HIV is a huge problem - and you need to be very, very careful there.
Especially if you are involved in trauma.
Double glove, practice impeccable blood protection.


Both said they had a great time, but one said he would never go back, the other said he would consider it again. But he was a Senior SHO on a 2nd post after completing his BST. He was having great trouble getting a number, so was considering all options. This was back in 2005. But he was a very gung-ho Type A personality. If you are a reserved type - I think there are too many issues of concern in SA to let you enjoy your time there and not worry.


Tough call - but find out as much as you can about the hospital.
Any chance of speaking to any junior Drs there (SHO level) - who are from EUROPE/UK and see how they find it.
My advice is not to go there with the attitude - it'll be alright when I get there.

[Qesomud]

tbfh,..
I couldn´t/wouldn´t do it.

[HexcewlyRette]

Wow, South Africa sounds like a pretty bad place. [surrender]

[Kiariitf]

Wow, South Africa sounds like a pretty bad place. [surrender]

Hurry up, move! Someone is about to stab you with AIDS!!!!

[Thifiadardivy]

If that were me, I would NOT take the job. However, what is right for me may not be what is right for you. I just like to wait, be patient, and wait for the PERFECT opportunity to open up. Take baby steps along the way until that window is open.

[Mereebirl]

I'm after some opinions.

I'm interested in a career in trauma/orthopaedic surgery. However, getting a prized London job in the field is proving rather difficult.

If I'm not going to stay in London, I really don't care where else I am as long as the experience is good. So on a whim I a emailed the trauma surgery boss at a big South African regional hospital... when he got my CV he offered me a job for 1-3 years that day (must be desperate! :P). He's put me in touch with an SA government manager to help me get registered quickly to start work later this year (allowing for my current commitments). He said he'd take me on initially as a liability but I'd be handling their trauma cases (gunshots, RTAs, stabbings) alone within 6-8 months.

Personal safety (if a nutter can shoot/stab a fellow South African in the area I'm sure he'd happily shoot/stab me too given the chance!) and HIV (very relevant to surgery if you stick yourself with a needle/knife - one of my bosses in the UK said he wouldn't be brave enough to go himself) are the main things making me think twice.

On the plus side, pay is ok (a 15% or so paycut). Experience would be great. Lifestyle would be good.

If I said no I'd be looking at work in my field but likely in a part of the UK I had no previous connection to. Experience wouldn't be as good, lifestyle worse, similar pay but a lot safer... I really don't know if I'm brave enough!

What to do!?

Your concerns are quite warranted. However, I don't think you're really needing to worry all that much. There is violence everywhere. You take a risk just stepping outside of your door everyday. You never know when you could walk into a store and that person in front/behind you might take you as a hostage or something.

On a different note; you'd be closer to Matt and Graham, which is reason enough to go.

[Elaltergephah]

I know a couple of colleagues from my last hospital who spent a year or two in South Africa (Cape Town)

This was about 4-5 years ago, before the MTAS debacle/****-up.

One was A&E orientated, the other General surgery.

1) Both said the experience was great.
2) Exposure to trauma was very high - RTA, stabbings, gunshot wounds, assaults, etc.
3) Pay was not as good
4) But lower living costs (albeit quality was lower too at some points, but not too bad)
5) However - they both mentioned there were times where they were literally shitting themselves when it came to personal safety.
Being attacked inside the hospital, and some altercations outside it too.
It is NOT like the UK. It's up to you whether you accept that.
Remember - you need to take your family into account too. They going to be happy with you going?
6) HIV is a huge problem - and you need to be very, very careful there.
Especially if you are involved in trauma.
Double glove, practice impeccable blood protection.


Both said they had a great time, but one said he would never go back, the other said he would consider it again. But he was a Senior SHO on a 2nd post after completing his BST. He was having great trouble getting a number, so was considering all options. This was back in 2005. But he was a very gung-ho Type A personality. If you are a reserved type - I think there are too many issues of concern in SA to let you enjoy your time there and not worry.


Tough call - but find out as much as you can about the hospital.
Any chance of speaking to any junior Drs there (SHO level) - who are from EUROPE/UK and see how they find it.
My advice is not to go there with the attitude - it'll be alright when I get there.

Thanks for that, I've spoken to a guy out there who's just left the job I'd be taking (he spent 2 years out there), he gave the impression things weren't so bad if you don't stick out like a sore thumb.

I accept things are not gonna be like the UK. I've got into a couple of fights with patients in A&E here (one drunk and threw a metal bin at a nurse, other was high and punched a colleague in the face) and that worries me a little... I wouldn't want to be doing that out there.

I'm also a little worried about my ability to avoid blood splashes. I've never had a needlestick yet, so hopefully I can keep that record going especially if I'm extra careful. Blood splashes are another matter

Family would be ok (but not overly enthusiastic), I'm single (that's another reason for me considering it now.
) so it's just the parents who'd worry.

Wow, South Africa sounds like a pretty bad place. [surrender]

Of course there will be very decent parts of South Africa... but there are also some nutters. If you were living out there you could choose to avoid the nutter infested areas, if you were after crazy trauma experience as a medic avoiding those areas would seem rather pointless. You're also not going to have to think about things like whether you'll cut your finger on the edge of a broken rib while fiddling inside the chest of a patient with HIV. My considerations are different from your average person going on holiday or even living out there.

[CoenceLomneedtrue]

You a med student?

[Elaltergephah]

You a med student?

Doctor.

[HexcewlyRette]

Of course there will be very decent parts of South Africa... but there are also some nutters. If you were living out there you could choose to avoid the nutter infested areas, if you were after crazy trauma experience as a medic avoiding those areas would seem rather pointless. You're also not going to have to think about things like whether you'll cut your finger on the edge of a broken rib while fiddling inside the chest of a patient with HIV. My considerations are different from your average person going on holiday or even living out there.

Most of my direct family are doctors as well as two of my friends...Doctors in SA take the same precautions as doctors anywhere else.