[avappyboalt]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe...eut/index.html

[Barbshowers]

Originally posted by BeBro
"Georgia claims 700 kg bomb hit Tsitelubani village, didn't explode; nobody hurt" i guess worse than being an aggressor is being an aggressor who doesnt succeed in killing even a single person...

[Immonnaornach]

Sure. Just when they really want to deal some damage, using exploding bombs would not be a bad idea.

BTW, one of our tabloids had yrs ago a story that some Russian mafia guys have stolen a herd of cows and transported them by air in an Antonov transport plane. According to the story in flight something went wrong, and they had to open the aft cargo bay doors (those which are also used for para drops etc.) and throw the cows out over the Pacific, where one of the cows hit and sunk a Japanese fisher boat. I doubt the story was actually true, but it was funny to imagine the "cow-bombs"....

[Weislenalkata]

Did not explode would indicate the bomb was not armed. This indicates to me it fell off by accident.

[meteeratymn]

Originally posted by pchang
Did not explode would indicate the bomb was not armed. This indicates to me it fell off by accident. Or maybe that it's a dud manufactured by drunken factory workers in Vlasglovradominsk, Siberia, who stuffed it with scrap metal and sold the actual explosives to extremists for vodka money? This is Russia we're talking about here.

[feseEscaple]

Just another remnant of the globe's most incompetent military in the past, present, and future.

[prmwsinfo]

No, not dwarves, dwarf bread. Much more effective.

[Vipvlad]

Im not seeing the proof part.

[Sakkola]

Sounds like an accident which Russia won't acknowledge. Not so weird really, it's not like Russia has much of a good reputation on aggression, and I'm sure Putin don't need another proof to the world of his administration's incompetence AND aggressiveness.

[Iphone]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi


You could prove alot operating on the level of data in the article.

Im not a fan of russia, but this is just finger pointing. If anything it was a mistake If it's russian, the question still is what the airplanes where doing in Georgian airspace

[Draftcasino.com]

I don't really care if Georgia joins NATO. I didn't even know it was on the table. It's just that at this point we could believe anything of Putin, up to and including charges that he breakfasts on babies every morning.

[allachakb]

Most of us know that one of the surest signs of a free society is that a leader will occasionally (hell, often!) have terrible approval ratings. Consistently high approvals (75%+) are highly suspect. It suggests either tampering with the numbers or a lot of propoganda.

Anyway, Elok was exaggerating just a wee bit. Most of us are simply very suspicious of Putin.

Bush's high approvals lasted only so long as he was able to convince people he was doing a good job. Once it became clear he wasn't, they crashed. Granted, it was way late, but it happened. Putin is a more competant leader than Bush, but he's also scarier in some ways (particularly, I would think, to Russia's neighbors and to his own people, but it would seem that the latter group still love him).

-Arrian

[vulikox]

Originally posted by Arrian
Anyway, Elok was exaggerating just a wee bit. Most of us are simply very suspicious of Putin. Speak for yourself, Arrian. I clearly saw Putin trying to suck that little boy's soul out through his belly button. That man is EVIL, through and through.

Ellestar, a couple of things:

1. Since when is India our "closest ally?" Unless by that you mean "chief supplier of math and physics professors," I think you are in fact mistaken.

2. I did not know we purchased Russian arms (except for those AK-47s we misplaced in Iraq). It does not matter, since I never claimed our own administration was competent. Beware the et tu quoque fallacy...

3. I meant to attack not the Russian arms industry but the Russian Armed Forces, which are regularly cited as the biggest fustercluck in the industrialized world. I suppose I was inaccurate.

4. What Arrian and Alva said. And Bush isn't a dictator, he's an overgrown toddler throwing a constitutional-rights-destroying hissy-fit at people who contradict or oppose him. I believe his intentions are basically good, he's just pig-headed and silly.

5. You aren't Serb, are you? Just asking.

[medprof]

Originally posted by alva
Maybe there are all Serbs or even worse, there are all Serb.

Serb

[padlabtard]

Originally posted by Ellestar
Sigh of course everyone believes Georgia just because you want Georgia in NATO. When Russia said that there are no 700 kg bombs in existence, Georgia said that it's a missile. However, they dismantiled all significant parts from that missile before the arrival of peacekeeping forces (so even the type of the missile can't be confirmed by a peacekeeping forces). Now tell me who the hell destroys favorable evidence if there is one in the first place?
People afraid that an unexploded missile might blow up?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070809...d_070809201935


Georgia, Russia deadlocked over mystery missile strike by Irakli Metreveli
Thu Aug 9, 4:23 PM ET


TBILISI (AFP) - Georgia attempted to rally international support Thursday behind its allegations that a Russian plane engaged in a missile strike on its territory, amid angry denials from Moscow.


Georgia's minister for conflict resolution, David Bakradze, released a report he said was written by Europe's main security and democracy body, the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE).

The report, which has not been released by the OSCE, says that military observers in Georgia at the time of Monday's incident saw one aircraft flying from the northeast.

"There is no other country than Russia to the northeast," said Bakradze.

Other monitors reported seeing a plane fly from southwest to northeast, the report said.

An OSCE spokeswoman in Vienna, Virginie Coulloudon, confirmed the document was genuine, but stressed that it was "an internal report that does not represent the position of the OSCE."

The United Nations Security Council said it would wait for more information before acting after the 4.8 metre (15.7-foot) missile landed in a field some 50 kilometres (30 miles) from the Georgian capital on Monday.

"We are looking forward to hear more about the facts ... from OSCE particularly ... so that would enable the Security Council to have a full picture of the situation before engaging any action," said a statement from Congolese ambassador to the UN Pascal Gayama, who is presiding over the Security Council this month.

The missile did not explode and caused no injuries, but Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili accused Russia of bombarding Georgia, raising the stakes in already tense relations between the pro-Western country and its Soviet-era master.

Meanwhile, Georgian Foreign Minister Gela Bezhuashvili engaged in a round of telephone diplomacy to try to secure the holding of a UN Security Council session to discuss the incident.

"The Georgian foreign ministry is working very actively to obtain adequate international support over this missile incident and the minister held a series of conversations with his foreign counterparts," his spokeswoman, Nino Kizhaia, said.

Russia has been infuriated by Georgia's preparations to join the Western-led NATO military alliance, regarding them as an incursion into its historical sphere of influence.

On Thursday a NATO spokeswoman said that the alliance's Deputy Secretary General Alessandro Minuto Rizzo had spoken by phone with Bezhuashvili.

"They agreed that NATO would stay in close contact with the Georgian authorities and that it will follow the ongoing investigations," said the spokeswoman, Carmen Romero.

But Russia again rejected claims that one of its jets had entered Georgian airspace and released a missile.

Senior air force officer Igor Khvorov told journalists in Moscow "we didn't plan or carry out any flights over Georgian territory.... It's fairly difficult to talk about the flight because there was none."

Russia also accused Georgia of tampering with evidence.

A senior Russian officer, Major General Marat Kulakhmetov, said that Georgian officials had removed "all the main pieces of the explosive device" before investigators arrived at the scene.

However, a spokesman for the Georgian interior ministry, Shota Khizanishvili, said that part of the missile had simply been destroyed for safety as it "contained a large quantity of TNT."

In a statement, the OSCE urged "an inclusive investigation" with "participation of all implicated parties."

Meanwhile the United States said it was looking into the incident.

Such "provocations need to end," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack warned.

Later Thursday another US official indicated on Georgian television that Washington did not believe assertions that Georgia had attacked itself.

"We listened to the statement that it was Georgia who bombarded its own territory. But there is no any evidence to say that this is the case," said Matthew Bryza, US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs.

"The most important thing is that Georgia undertake a credible investigation. Georgia has presented serious information which must now be examined within the United Nations," he said, according to comments translated first into Georgian and then back to English by AFP.

[EsAllCams]

Originally posted by BeBro
Sure. Just when they really want to deal some damage, using exploding bombs would not be a bad idea.

BTW, one of our tabloids had yrs ago a story that some Russian mafia guys have stolen a herd of cows and transported them by air in an Antonov transport plane. According to the story in flight something went wrong, and they had to open the aft cargo bay doors (those which are also used for para drops etc.) and throw the cows out over the Pacific, where one of the cows hit and sunk a Japanese fisher boat. I doubt the story was actually true, but it was funny to imagine the "cow-bombs".... It's a fake. Actually it's an episode from the Russian comedy movie.

[Noilemaillilm]

Originally posted by Elok 2. I did not know we purchased Russian arms (except for those AK-47s we misplaced in Iraq). It does not matter, since I never claimed our own administration was competent. Beware the et tu quoque fallacy... You did.
Just a couple of examples: F-35 is a copy/paste of Soviet Yak-141, designers of PATRIOT used S-300 technology illegaly purchased from Russia in 90's, NASA uses Russian engines, etc. You've stolen a lot of Russian technology when we were an Eltsin's anarchy.

3. I meant to attack not the Russian arms industry but the Russian Armed Forces, which are regularly cited as the biggest fustercluck in the industrialized world. I suppose I was inaccurate. Any time, any place (c).
You suckers.

4. What Arrian and Alva said. And Bush isn't a dictator, he's an overgrown toddler throwing a constitutional-rights-destroying hissy-fit at people who contradict or oppose him. I believe his intentions are basically good, he's just pig-headed and silly. Sure, it's Putin who invades independent countries, thus breaking fundamental internatinal laws at will, not Bush.

5. You aren't Serb, are you? Just asking. Nope, he is not. But anyway, in this kingdom of anti-Russian idiotism, he is doing a fine anti-brainwashing job.

Have a nice day in your fantasy world.

[Yswxomvy]

Originally posted by Serb
WTF? Did he say anything about the US Army? Couldn't you have come up with something better than "I know you are but what am I?"

[kuklame]

Originally posted by alva
He has what, just a mere 80%-85% domestic support - an obvious dictator who opresses it's people

As Arrian said, you really aren't going to use that to present your case, are you? With a war going on or a marriage or something, a politician might get a very short spike and lift his or her ratings to such a high level but when it remains there, eyebrows will get raised.
Did Bush even hit 85% the days after 9/11? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin

Domestic Support and Criticism

While having widespread public support in Russia, Putin also has many critics.

While many reforms made in modern Russia under Putin’s rule have been generally criticized by Western media and some American politicians as antidemocratic [82], a joint poll by World Public Opinion in the U. S. and Levada Center Russia around June-July 2006 stated that "neither the Russian nor the American publics are convinced Russia is headed in an anti-democratic direction" and "Russians generally support Putin’s concentration of political power and strongly support the re-nationalization of Russia’s oil and gas industry" [83] Russians generally support reforms initiated by Putin's team.[84]

According to public opinion surveys conducted by Levada Center, Putin's approval rating was 81% in June 2007, and the highest of any leader in the world. [85] His popularity rose from 31% in August 1999 to 80% in November 1999 and since then it has never fallen below 65%.[86] So, 65%+ for almost 8 years straight. Hardly a short spike. And there is a simple explanation - he does what people want, isn't it a democracy? It may have been done better in an ideal world, but it's good enough for Russia as it is.

And my case is what exactly? If it's that you're all brainwashed about Russia and Putin, then sure. After all, i read western press too, i see it with my own eyes.

[AnypecekceS]

Oh, I see. I'd forgotten I even had the Bhutanese flag, I just chose it because I thought it looked cool. The flag doesn't always mean something, FYI; there are a lot of wiseasses around here that use the DPRK flag, for example.

WRT the screwiness of the Russian army, I'm too lazy to look up examples but it's well-known that lots of your officers, in addition to being drunkards, regularly abuse their subordinates. There used to be a different Corruption-in-the-Russian-Army story every couple of days--then it got to be old news, I guess, since we stopped seeing them. Maybe you haven't been following the Western Media that closely, or that long. At least U.S. soldiers only torture the enemy...

I will admit that the Russian army was quite effective, as you said, in the late seventies and early eighties, shortly before I was born. On a related note, you guys would have lost WWII without our help.