[Fvmfrctt]

While it certainly sounds bad, Imran, I'd wait until the investigation is complete and the full facts are known before coming to a conclusion.

edit: though I doubt the conclusion will be pride in the Marines here, based on this story.

-Arrian

[97dYA9L3]

This grim news here is more than just the loss of life.

This is a necessary step if the insurgents are going to win. They have to induce our troops into believing the Iraqi people are the enemy, which -- worse case scenario -- is what appears to have happened here.

[xIuvyAuT]

The Marine Corps initially reported that the deaths were caused by a roadside bomb and ensuing firefight with insurgents.

Very nice. I thought honor was part of the Marine Code...

[bettingonosports]

Originally posted by Arrian
While it certainly sounds bad, Imran, I'd wait until the investigation is complete and the full facts are known before coming to a conclusion.



-Arrian True. And for this same reason alone Murtha is a huge dick.

[LxtdK9i4]

not accustomed to that? What is that, some racist **** you claim with a serious face or trolling?

[PersonalLoansBank]

I'd have more compassion in both cases if could tell the opponent; and in both cases cited, it's impossible.

Unfortunate that the burden is put on military members. Pass them by, chances are they blow you up.

[LianneForbess]

Before anyone spouts theories, it might be relevant to their case, and viewpoint, to have a frame of reference.

Easy to sit and swill beer in an air conditioned house somewhere, and shake your head.

[cepAceryTem]

Originally posted by Pekka
Geronimo, I don't know if we're talking about units here but there are ALWAYS rogue individual soldiers. That is guaranteed, denying this is sticking ones head in devils butt. We know this to be true.

Unit level, that I don't know. Of course that's far worse but who knows. I claim there is always at least one unit trying to cover up things like this in every single war, country, time and army.
It still isn't OK in my book though. Murder is a murder. Just like torture is torture. I cope much better with news of acts of depravity by individual soldiers. However this sure as hell sounds like an entire unit of rotten apples or at the very least a unit with multiple rotten apples and an entire lot of complacent bastards who couldn't bring themselves to turn in or at least anonymously tip off the authorities on the saddistic psycopaths in their unit.

[Vobomei]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

This shames me as an American. Why be one then?

[irrascaft]

Because the only other option is Canadian.

[shashaffff]

Originally posted by Geronimo


What kind of reply is that? Did imran say he can no longer ever feel anything but shame about being an American now? You're an american right? Every moment of your life is just brimming with pride in everything done on behalf of your country? I think you took what I said the wrong way. I'm not ashamed, because I don't consider myself one of those people.

[nitivearchit]

Originally posted by DaShi
Because the only other option is Canadian. When you put it like that, it's hard to disagree.

[Candykiss]

Originally posted by Geronimo
The hardest thing for me is the way that this is like seeing a cockroach in a house. How can I tell if this is an isolated atrocity or if there are perhaps dozens of rogue US military units out there indulging in murder at their whim? My best guess is that, at this point in time, this is just an isolated incident.

But guerilla wars are very difficult to fight...especially for foreign troops. There is the malignant lure of reacting to seeing your buddies killed in abushes by thinking of the foreign nationals as the enemy. Even tho you've been sent to protect them, the attacks come from behind and from among them.

Unless our troops can exercise an almost unhuman discipline, these types of atrocities will happen more and more.

[Fdmnrnba]

Originally posted by Wezil


Can they (US military) ever do wrong Sloww? Absolutely. They can pass by unidentifed people and be killed. They make mistakes almost daily in that regard.

[Neitteloxesia]

If this stuff is right, I hope the unit (at least the commanders) goes away from a loooong time .

[Jesslovers]

Is it Vietnam yet?

[Bemapayople]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Is it Vietnam yet? Depends on whether the Dems gain power and cut and run.

[blenIgnigeSef]

Originally posted by Ned


Depends on whether the Dems gain power and cut and run.

[KellyMP]

Originally posted by Joseph
You might remember that one of the Marines was killed the day before by a road side bomb in this area. None of us were there to see what happen.
Think about this for a second, these kids are walking and riding around these streets each day and someone is being killed or being wounded each day. Would you be able to keep your cool.

I was in the Navy and did not go to Nam.
But when we were in Korea, and I was on watch, my gun was loaded and I was told if anything move out by the water to shoot and they would sort it out later if I did the right thing. We also had a boat in the water and I had to go over to them every few minutes and may sure the 3 guys were my guys. They to were told to shoot at anything in the water. if by keep my cool you mean refrain from murdering unarmed women and children yeah I probably could. By all accounts the kids killed weren't even involved in typical provocations like pelting the soldiers with rocks and bottles.

This wasn't a case of split second decision gone bad either. There was nothing to indicate the presence of armed hostiles among the victims or even in the general vicinity at the time of the incident.


Let me ask you, do you think it's never possible to judge the conduct of soldiers in war? Would it be ok to judge the conduct of SS troops on the eastern front in ww2?

I have a lot of respect for our soldiers as a group. Each and every one of them volunteered to put themselves in harms way to serve our country. But by no means do I feel complelled to extend that respect to every last person who volunteers. Once soldiers abandon their discipline and begin to commit such crimes I can't see why those 'solidiers' are any more deserving of our respect than deserters. And yet traditionally nobody objects to branding deserters as scum.

[Morageort]

If the basic facts are correct then those men are shitbags. Basically an IED went off killing one Marine so the rest went on a rampage and killed a bunch of villagers to get even. That is very typical of the us vs them mentality people complained the Marines had when I was over there.

That said I remember Hyditha being mentioned as a particularly hostile town full of cowardly insurgents who would attack from crowds. Crowds who would never admit to knowing who the triggermen were.