[Lgcjqxlw]

It will also upscale existing DVDs to 1080p(!), that's a high-end DVD feature...

I had a chance to talk to Shane Kim, who recently named the corporate vice president of Microsoft Game Studios, about the day's announcements over in Tokyo.

If you missed the news check out the full press release on the jump, but in a nutshell Microsoft announced the Japan price and date for the HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360. More importantly, they announced that the fall software update for the console will allow the console to output game and movie content in 1080p resolution. That's right I said movies and games.

The interview was exactly 10 minutes long, so naturally I spent nine minutes trying to figure out just how a console with no HDMI out would gain 1080p output with a software update.

Kim was clear that the console could support true 1080p out.

"If it is running at 720p we will up-res it to 1080p, (interesting... everything if you set it for 1080p?) if it it's already 1080p then we can display it in 1080p," he said. " This is a great example of our console's ability and the great advantage of being a software company."

Kim said that while the console will soon support 1080p out, it will not have an HDMI out.

"We have the ability to output either through VGA or component. We have no HDMI announcement now," he said. "We do have the capability to deliver the software and, if needed, the hardware."

I pointed out that some movie studios have said they will use HDMI output as a form of copy protection and Kim acknowledged that if a studio uses that scheme then HDMI will indeed be required.

While Kim expects that some third-party game developers will create 1080p games, he said that 720p will likely remain the norm.

"We believe 720p is the sweet-spot for high definition," he said, adding that Microsoft Game Studio titles will, for now, continue to be created at 720p.

While the release of a low-cost HD-DVD player for the 360 could help make the console more competitive against Sony's upcoming PS3, Kim things the main development that could help jumpstart 360 sales in Japan are game titles.

Kim said that Microsoft plans to have 110 titles available for the 360 by the end of the year in Japan and 160 in North America.

"It's all going to be about the content and how customers value the content," he said.

Hit the jump for the official press release with details on new Live games, the Pac-Man World Championships, Xbox 360's HD-DVD player, some new titles and XNA support in Japan.

[animilius]

Originally posted by LordShiva
Upscaling

"1080p" over analog Upscaling is awesome for standard DVD content.

As someone with a 1080p TV, I can safely say I can see no difference between HDMI and Component -- at least with the current HDMI 1.2. HDMI has copy protection, that's the only difference.

[Kingerix]

Upscaling of SD DVDs is awesome. Upscaling by a $170 device isn't. Heck, even top-of-the-line upscaling DVD players can't compare with an HTPC running ffdshow and avisynth.

[epPtsDno]

Originally posted by Asher
All processing is done by the tri-core 3.2GHz CPUs with help from ATI's Xenos. I'm willing to bet it's way better than even what you get with ffdshow on a HTPC. I'll take that bet. The CPUs have nothing to do with scaling.

[wsbizwsa]

Originally posted by DanS
I'll take that bet. The CPUs have nothing to do with scaling. The more horsepower you've got the more advanced algorithms you can implement. It's a conjunction of GPU + CPU, and I'm willing to bet the universal shaders on the GPU will help quite a bit, too.

I don't think you understand how scaling algorithms work, or you seem to be stuck in the ASIC video scalar era. It can be done on the CPU, GPU, or both.

[flueftArete]

Darn, thought this was your typical adbot post.
I wanted to delete it and ban the user.

This does look interesting though.

[Clarissa]

k.

Dan, do you realize the 360 is not a Windows PC?

Do you realize that Xenos is a custom GPU without standard PC DirectX features such as the progressive-scan overlay?

The 360 has a scaling chip, designed by their WebTV group that is currently being used. It only supports up to 1080i. This is why this is big news, they are obviously doing software scaling using the CPU/GPU in conjunction with the "mystery" chip for A/V output.

Do you follow?

[abossakon]

We already know the limitations of the scalar built into the 360 that's currently used. Its development process is documented in Dean Takahashi's book on the 360 development.

I also understand enough about computers that if they're not using the hardware scalar, they're using a software one. I understand that software has "something to do with CPUs", in contrast to your earlier statement.

It's not me pulling things from my netherregions...

[lasadeykar]

Let's put it this way. Currently, you would not use a general purpose chip like a CPU to do scaling. Even the CPUs in the 360 couldn't contribute much help. Rather, you're going to pass it the task off to the video hardware in any event, which is built to handle these types of tasks. In this respect, the 360 doesn't have an advantage over PCs, and therefore I wouldn't expect the 360 to surpass HTPCs on scaling. But this patently isn't true. It's true that on the PCs, the CPUs are comparatively very weak in terms of vector processing so this task gets sent to hardware on the GPU.

Considering that the Xbox 360's CPU is capable of 125 GFLOPS (compared to ~8-10 for a high end PC), at a higher precision than video cards, I don't see why it wouldn't be used. Scaling algorithms as they're implemented on GPUs typically use more shortcuts at the expense of precision, like most GPU operations.

I doubt the GPU will be doing most of this work for one simple reason: since this scalar works in GAMES as well, the video card is likely to be already in 100% use. The CPU, meanwhile, has a core reserved for use by OS functions which is currently sitting mostly idle...

[Rjvpicux]

!

[Ngwkgczx]

/me shrug.

[uaodnabnjz]

Asher: What you say at least seems possible to me at a superficial level (I have not talked with someone who has programmed this on a 360, only PCs). However, if that's what M$ had in mind, why didn't they use the CPU to scale when the 360 was released? Why spend money to develop and include a scaler chip?

[Oppofeescom]

OK, seems possible. Let's wait and see the details.

[Rx-Ultram]

Looks like Sony is fux0r3d.

[Elissetecausa]

It seems you'll need VGA to enjoy 1080p goodness...

http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/09/21...ent-1080p-vga/

We still don't know the US price or launch date, but we've got a bit more specifics on how the Xbox 360 HD DVD player add-on will work when it hits store shelves later this year thanks to a post by Microsoft insider Amir M. on AVS Forum. When Microsoft revealed yesterday it will support 1080p HD DVD and 1080p DVD upconversion we were surprised because it's commonly accepted that the CSS (DVD) and AACS (HD DVD & Blu-ray) copyright provisions wouldn't allow that (although some manufacturers have looked the other way before) via unprotected analog connections. We were right, sort of. Even after the software upgrade this fall, via component cables, the Xbox 360 will still only upconvert DVDs to 480p, and will play HD DVD movies at a maximum resolution of 1080i. To get 1080p output for movies, you must use a VGA cable, which is not subject to the same copyright restrictions. This just means the Xbox 360 is just like every other HD DVD and Blu-ray player on the market, but you wouldn't know that by reading Microsoft's press releases yesterday. If you ran out and bought a 1080p HDTV yesterday don't return it just yet, you should be able to get equal picture quality to 1080p if your TV processes the incoming signal correctly, and if it supports 1080p via component you can still play upconverted and native-1080p games . We're still waiting to hear exactly how HD DVD's advanced audio capabilities will be handled by the 360 and oh yeah...a US price, please Microsoft?.

Update: Added list of supported resolutions after the break.

To break it all down what you will get from the Xbox 360 after this fall's software update:

VGA:

* HD DVD - 1080p resolution and all others
* DVD - Upscaled as high as 1080p resolution and all others
* Games - 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future

Component:

* HD DVD - 1080i resolution maximum, limited by AACS
* DVD - Upscaled to 480p maximum, limited by CSS
* Games - 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future

[carinsurancess]

Total Posts: 31
User Posts
Asher 13
DanS 8
LordShiva 3
Kuciwalker 1
rah 1
nostromo 1
Dis 1
pchang 1
Elok 1
Verto 1 Originally posted by rah
Darn, thought this was your typical adbot post.
I wanted to delete it and ban the user. me too

[Adfcvkdg]

Now there's an oddity, the thread starter making the most amount of posts.

Report it to the Finnish authorities at once, make yourself feel important, VJ. 0.5/10

I don't even know who you are, all I know is you're one of the many generic Finns on here, but you're making a name for yourself with some weird unprovoked hostility against me in several threads. Is it because you love me? Or is it because you feel threatened by me? Either way, suck it up princess...and move on. Getting personal, huh?

Well, to be honest: It's because you're a worthless, shallow shitbag who masturbates all over the forums by trolling people and checking how many you can lure to get banned by making them respond into your most outrageous lies, distortions and personal attacks and usually getting involved in a long flamewar with you. Since you obviously enjoy this stuff, there's no way for others to do anything but to lose in that flamewar. Man, I just loved your "LOOK LOOK I'M BEING OPPRESSED" routine after succesfully trolling UR to ban you technically unjustly. That was a great job now wasn't it, now none of the mods have the balls to keep you in check and you can troll all you want, eh? What kind of a sick invididual enjoys something so counterproductive and idiotic?

The biggest problem with you is that you're slowly destroying the quality of OTF with your eternal spambot- and troll-routines. This is one of the several reasons why Apolyton is slowly dying as a community. Man, I wish you'd be perma-banned. But since you probably won't, all I can do is watch how Apolyton slowly is less and less active.

And the point wasn't that you had the most post in this latest spambot-thread of yours, it was that you routinely have 1/3rd of the posts in your own spam-threads since you keep on bumping them into the top of the first page. As of right now, you're responsible for 44% of the posts in this thread. Nearly half. In a community as large as Apolyton, that's staggeringly high.

There, and now I'll stop responding into your trolls. So suck it up, queen.