[LoloLibia]

TYPICAL AMERICAN CULTURE

This was conceived as a little response in the “Layla” thread to a post that I considered (forgive me, ryan ) to be astonishingly bad advice to a first-time tourist from abroad --especially coming from a New Yorker with anti-establishment views. It grew until I realized it should really be a separate thread. Here’s what got it started:

Hi Layla-
Florida is a great place the US because you'll get a taste of typical American culture (New York is a bit different from the rest of the country).

As advice goes, this is almost in a league with telling a German tourist to spend Saturday night walking up and down 125th Street.

* * *


“AMERICAN CULTURE.” I know at least one well-known European intellectual who considers this an oxymoron. He’s wrong, but I can see where he’s coming from.

You don’t want to ask a native about it, because we Americans are uniquely subject to mythologizing ourselves with self-delusions.

Most Americans, for example, think that rugged individualism is an American trait, and perhaps it once was. But today’s average American is about as big a conformist as you’ll find on the planet. He’s just a collection of pre-digested views absorbed from advertising men and clergy.

“A nation of outdoorsmen and athletes,” trumpet the corpulent couch potatoes, Bud Light in hand and NFL on the tube.

“Devoted to tolerance and freedom, a nation of laws under God” thunders the preacher from his pulpit to a chorus of “Amens,” while the un-charged wretches in Gitmo’s limbo attempt their umpteenth mass suicide. (Put there by the elected representative and hero of all those justice-preaching freedom lovers.)

“Americans live better than anyone else.” Whoever believes this measures quality of life by the cubic feet of stuff he has in mini-storage. Tell that to a Frenchman with his five-week vacation, his health care, his walkable cities, his fresh food trucked in daily from the countryside (and maybe his mistress in Montparnasse). Tell it to a Swede who regards murder as an exotic event mostly made up by American screenwriters. Tell that to an average Andorran, who lives to be 86.

I bet every single member of this forum can add at least three fictions of his own to this list.

We’re addicted to mythologizing ourselves, and we’re really the only ones who believe the myth; and that makes us classic fools.

Here’s one many Americans believe: “Typical American culture is interesting.” The source of this misconception is something that is true: “American pop culture --as exemplified by action movies, popular music, fast food and casual clothing—fascinates the world.” The second statement is quite different from the first. And it has the virtue of being true.

Now all of us are entitled to our opinions, though if we’re wise we’ll change those opinions when we find out we’re wrong. John Kerry did that when he discovered he’d been fed falsehoods about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, so he “flip-flopped” on the Iraq war’s wisdom, while his steadfast adversary dug in his heels, damned the torpedoes and won the election.

What that is evidence of is yet another widespread myth only Americans believe about themselves: “Americans are well-informed and American public opinion has good judgment.” Tell this to a Spaniard.

* * *

From the dictionary:

cul•ture noun

1. The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought; these patterns, traits, and products considered as the expression of a particular period, class, community, or population: Edwardian culture; Japanese culture; the culture of poverty; these patterns, traits, and products considered with respect to a particular category, such as a field, subject, or mode of expression: religious culture in the Middle Ages; musical culture; oral culture; the predominating attitudes and behavior that characterize the functioning of a group or organization.

2. Intellectual and artistic activity and the works produced by it.

3. Development of the intellect through training or education; enlightenment resulting from such training or education.

4. A high degree of taste and refinement formed by aesthetic and intellectual training.


* * *

All groupings of people have culture by the first definition; in fact you’ll find it among social animals like chimps and wolves.

Most groupings of people have culture by the second definition; it’s a rare group that eschews art and philosophy entirely.

The third definition excludes quite a few groups of people. There are plenty of unenlightened groups and individuals. You can supply your own list; it probably will differ from your neighbor’s.

And I think we can agree that groups that fit the fourth definition are quite rare. Zen monks, auctioneers at Sotheby’s, wine connoisseurs, novelists and opera critics spring to mind, among others.

As you go down the list of the dictionary’s definition, culture grows rarer and more precisely defined.

I can name places a half-hour’s drive from my home where by the last definition you won’t find any culture at all –and one place where you’ll find a whole lot. The one place where I find a lot has enabled me to encounter the Royal Shakespeare Company, an arthritic Bob Dylan and I Musici –in surroundings that would have found Frederick Olmsted’s approval, along with Leonard Cohen’s.

I’m blessed; most of America is more than an hour’s drive from this kind of American culture. It’s common in all the places, like New York, that are “a bit different from the rest of the country”: SFO, BOS, WAS, NOL, Miami Beach, Charleston, Chapel Hill, Santa Fe… Those are also the places I’d advise a foreign tourist to seek out for a good time. The interesting places.

“Typical American culture” is present at its best on Thanksgiving Day. Weekdays it's Rush Limbaugh in the traffic jam, lunch at McDonald’s, exercise machines at the Y, reality television, a six-pack to unwind. Saturdays it’s shopping at the mall, little-league soccer, the “funky” bar’s country rock amplified to ear-splitting decibels to mask its musical bankruptcy. Sundays it’s political sermons masquerading as God’s word, chased down with a pizza and a Sprite. Above all, it's hours and hours in your car.

At various times in the past my job description included entertainer, tourguide, conversationalist-companion, debater and dinner escort to luminaries with familiar names bandied daily about these forums. Several of these superstars arrived directly from Europe. Being well-informed and traveled, they knew they were coming to one of the epicenters of “typical American Culture.” As much as Omaha, Atlanta, Memphis, Phoenix, Houston or Tampa, my city has a reputation for exemplifying the straight and narrow centerline of “American Culture;” in fact it’s often cited as an exemplar, even on this forum.

At other times, social connections made abroad and family ties to the old country found me hosting European guests across a broad spectrum of social classes and intellectual achievement –ranging from tattooed teens from Central Europe to an Italian self-characterized as a Roman “peasant” and cinema extra.

Whether they were intellectual superstars or plain folk, what these Europeans had in common was that they found “typical American culture” boring and vapid.

Empty and a little sad. Jack Kerouac, Tom Wolfe, Neil Young, Miles Davis, Mother Teresa, Allen Ginsberg, Richard Serra, Bono, Richard Pryor…I think you could count on them all to agree.

All that pointless materialism…all those empty moments…

“American Culture”: the European intellectual who thinks it’s an oxymoron is wrong. We have a culture –just like everybody else.

It’s past due for an overhaul.

.

[Jerwittdergut]

from urban dictionary:

troll 216 up, 21 down
One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.

[sStevenRitziI]

Amen to that.

[MilenaJaf]

Oh Ryan, come on.

[kuklame]

from urban dictionary:

troll 216 up, 21 down
One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.

Are you accusing him of this, or demonstrating how it can be done?

[avavavava]

ablarc's no troll, he's a member of the family here.

[gkihueonhjh]

The word can also be a verb.

[JMLot]

The word can also be a verb.

As you so demonstrate.

I think we paid our fine ryan, lets cross this bridge before someone burns it, k?

[AndyScouchek]

I always thought the essential component of a troll is that he/she is a forum visitor, someone who "trolls around, fishing for an argument," disrupts the discussion, and moves on, leaving the forum in turmoil. As a fisherman, I saw the analogy that way, the Nordic troll a secondary characteristic.

Wikipedia on Internet Troll

[pepBarihepe]

I always thought the essential component of a troll is that he/she is a forum visitor, someone who "trolls around, fishing for an argument," disrupts the discussion, and moves on, leaving the forum in turmoil. As a fisherman, I saw the analogy that way, the Nordic troll a secondary characteristic.

Wikipedia on Internet Troll

I saw it the same way.

Actually, I think it has become a hybrid of the two, both as a mythical beast and a net-slinging cruiser.

But this thread isn't about trolls or trolling. At least, I hope it isn't.

[eropiereetuekm]

At the risk of ad hominem attack (being called a troll), I have to side with ablarc on this one.

There is a 'typical New Yorker provincialism' implicit in the categorization of anything other than New York as "the rest of the country" and typifying "American Culture."

It is equal parts insensitive, insulting and ignorant to lump West-Texans and Cantabrigians into the same generic non-cosmopolitan stereotype.

While nothing in the US (or arguably the world) compares with New York, it is fallacious reasoning to conclude that all non-NYC places share anything resembling a common culture.

[accelieda]

Despite the fact that this topic is probably the result of bickering from another thread (I'm not sure, as it would be too boring to search for the originating thread), I'm gonna assume this is a serious discussion.

I'm not gonna wax noetic about the nature of "Culture" as I my feelings on the subject are ambivalent. I don't know what "Culture" is, nor will I pretend that I do. So I offer questions, of which I hope you will help me to better understand the concept.

Question:
Isn't a society's Culture an amalgamation of three components: traditional culture - a distinct collection of characteristics of how a society behaves, conceived from the society's origin and perpetuated throughout the life of the society; modern or current culture - the real, or perceived real, behaviors of the society in the Now, the Present; (and perhaps) a pop culture - effectively the stereotypical notions of how a society behaves, perceived by the society itself or by others (whether the notions are true or false is irrelevant)?

[LkEHaduy]

Despite the fact that this topic is probably the result of bickering from another thread (I'm not sure, as it would be too boring to search for the originating thread), I'm gonna assume this is a serious discussion.

Thanks. It is. At least, most folks are treating it as such. I'm grateful for that.

I'm not gonna wax noetic about the nature of "Culture" as I my feelings on the subject are ambivalent. I don't know what "Culture" is, nor will I pretend that I do. So I offer questions, of which I hope you will help me to better understand the concept.

Check out the post for the dictionary's take, which is pretty informative.

Isn't a society's Culture an amalgamation of three components: traditional culture - a distinct collection of characteristics of how a society behaves, conceived from the society's origin and perpetuated throughout the life of the society; modern or current culture - the real, or perceived real, behaviors of the society in the Now, the Present; (and perhaps) a pop culture - effectively the stereotypical notions of how a society behaves, perceived by the society itself or by others (whether the notions are true or false is irrelevant)?

Seems reasonable.

Oh, and the bickering: http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9261

.

[Rqqneujr]

Question:
Isn't a society's Culture an amalgamation of three components: traditional culture - a distinct collection of characteristics of how a society behaves, conceived from the society's origin and perpetuated throughout the life of the society; modern or current culture - the real, or perceived real, behaviors of the society in the Now, the Present; (and perhaps) a pop culture - effectively the stereotypical notions of how a society behaves, perceived by the society itself or by others (whether the notions are true or false is irrelevant)?

I guess you say this because you don't feel stereotypes have to be true, just interesting to somebody. That's fine until folks start drawing conclusions from the stereotypes.

.

[AntonioXYZ]

Broadly, Ablarc's characterization of 'American' culture seems accurate and certainly it reflects what most non-US people think of it.

However, having had the opportunity to spend more time in the US than most furryners, I've found that there are many subtle and interesting aspects of Merkun life that transcend the vapidity of US mass culture.

I would also point out that other 'cultures' I am throroughly familiar with are in many ways no 'deeper' than US culture once you get past the "gee ain't it neat / exoticist" aspects.

Some uncommonly strong positives in US culture (some may disagree these are positive traits):
> Charity-giving and civic mindedness
> Prosperity so diffuse that any reasonably intelligent person can have a
tolerable material lifestyle without working much / conforming
> Attachment to 2nd amendment rights
> Endemic politeness
> A generally cheerful, practical, empirical outlook

Some bizarre things about Merkun culture that, no matter how much time I spend there, I'll never understand:
> General disinterest in other cultures
> Blatant hypocrisy on 'sin' issues (nudity, alcohol, etc.)
> Inability to differnetiate between quality and 'symbols' of quality in
commercial goods

[nvideoe]

> Blatant hypocrisy on 'sin' issues (nudity, alcohol, etc.)
> Inability to differnetiate between quality and 'symbols' of quality in
commercial goods

...just a collection of pre-digested views absorbed from advertising men and clergy.

.

[greekbeast]

Some uncommonly strong positives in US culture (some may disagree these are positive traits):
> Attachment to 2nd amendment rights

The right to bear arms as an "uncommonly strong positive in US culture": Mayor Bloomberg and many others would disagree. Why do you think this is such a positive?

[vNQmO2BF]

The right to bear arms as an "uncommonly strong positive in US culture": Mayor Bloomberg and many others would disagree. Why do you think this is such a positive?

Partly because I think it is examplary of the individualistic (in the best sense), self-reliant, libertarian, conservative (again, in the best sense of the word), pugnacious streak in the American psyche that comes from beign a nation of strivers/immigrants.

But mostly, I think that disarmament of the citizenry is a sure sign of deep distrust of thw governing for the governed and maybe of a people in itself. Disarmament precludes the ability, whatever the legality, of challenging the state's monopoly on violence (including retributive or defensive violence), which I think is a mistake.

Most democratic nations have just rolled over on this one, while maybe getting very het up about soem minor stuff. I appreciate that the US has not. Notwithstanding that many people one reads about would be much better off without any firearms

[mxzjxluwst]

To counteract inevitable accumulation of power in the government, Jefferson thought there should be a revolution every fifteen years --and an armed citizenry was the way to accomplish this.

Recently some Americans actually took this to heart and acted accordingly. They include the executed Timothy McVeigh and jailed Eric Rudolph.

Meanwhile, the government's power has grown as Jefferson foresaw.

The first Revolution took thirteen years to unfold. If we had one every fifteen years, we'd be in a more or less permanent state of revolution. Sort of like Iran, Cuba or Mao's China.

Don't know what to think of any of that.

[hapasaparaz]

To counteract inevitable accumulation of power in the government, Jefferson thought there should be a revolution every fifteen years --and an armed citizenry was the way to accomplish this.

Recently some Americans actually took this to heart and acted accordingly. They include the executed Timothy McVeigh and jailed Eric Rudolph.

Meanwhile, the government's power has grown as Jefferson foresaw.

The first Revolution took thirteen years to unfold. If we had one every fifteen years, we'd be in a more or less permanent state of revolution. Sort of like Iran, Cuba or Mao's China.

Don't know what to think of any of that.

Revolution every 15 years sounds like a provocation on the part of Jefferson, rather than a policy tenet. I think that aside from ‘militia’ types hardly anyone thinks there will be a military dictatorship in the US. I would guess that armed citizens are more protected from pettier threats but in general command a certain respect.