[egexgfczc]

I was discussing things with the propietor of a orchid store and he discussed that another N.E. collector, and member of this site, recently had a delivery of plants from overseas confiscated by the authorities. I guess this person was too open about having plants that are CITESrestricted and the postal service was alerted to make the seizure. My recommendation is to be more discreet, i.e. PM people you trust about your plants, also, use 2nd party buyer, and if you order plants have them sent to your neighbors. It sucks that this whole mess is still going on, especially if the spreading of plants to growers around the world is better than losing them to habitat loss, etc.

[JulieSmithXIV]

dang it. if only the u.s. would make some rational decisions about cites!

[Toninvell]

Better to buy a small number of plants at a time. A small package of one or two must have plants attracts much less attention.

[Buyingtime]

It's a shame in so many ways for the plants. We've had threads/postings as to what the consequences can be, so why take a chance? Play with fire & you're gonna get burned!

[kertUtire]

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[JohnfAclambrJA]

It's only logical that the "authorities" would be monitoring internet forum sites such as ours. Like Forest said "Stupid is as Stupid does"

[Spongebob]

what a waste of time and money. I have not much else to say....I have had my time and money wasted before (non-orchid related). The American government is wasting your tax dollars on this crap too.

[AmfitNom]

It's more complicated than that.

The asians sellers sends a hell of a lot of boxes every month to the USA, Europe, and wherever. There is a part of the boxes that are seized, but on the seller's side, there are no legal risks really - a tip and that's finished - second, the sellers are making so much profit for each box that goes through, that the 'lost ones' are nothing.

Of course, when one box is seized, the complete network is watched, however in China, there are many networks, maybe 20-30 different ones, using many different sending companies and agents FedEx, DHL, UPS, etc... It's a hit or miss.

Generally, except there has been a physical informant that went to the Customs of the USFWS, nothing happens. And for sure, even if the authorities watch the forums, they do not care that much. There are many possible pretenders, many small size shipments, etc...

The thing being that if you ask the sellers in Asia 'everything goes smooth', but based on Kaichen that I happened to know, the rate of seized boxes per year is about 15% on her shipments. She does not care, because she earns far more than enough with the remaining. But the customers are in deep, deep shit afterwards...

Eric, your suggestion is in fact a very bad idea. If a hobbyist gets a box seized, and the box was supposedly for him, he gets a fine, and some problens. If the hobbyist ask a third part, or delivery to the neighbors, etc... it becomes far more criminal, it's like a mafia network, or a 'smuggler network'. Alone, you can loose your plants.

If you involve third part, first they will speak 99.999999999999999% of the time and give your name to the customs, second it means that you really know you do something illegal. Last, it makes a network.

[roundman]

Whoa! This is some heavy stuff! I don't understand why the AOS doesn't get involved in changing the laws. Seems like political bull!
Doesn't seem right that we are under basically British Law when they were the ones ripping millions of orchids from their habitat at the time they were known as the graveyard for orchids!
It would seem it would be better for the propagation of the species if orchid growers were stewards of the plants that have already been plucked from the wild. That way the species will be cared for and places like Troy Meyers Conservatory can help with dispersal to other orchid growers.

[Charryith]

If someone (outside the orchid world) would just understand if you get rid of strict shipping policies, you will be increasing the survival of thousands of species thru trades, tissue culture and etc.

[egexgfczc]

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[mdUzAMbG]

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[Rndouglas]

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[RalfDweflywex]

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[egexgfczc]

Don't believe that these things just happen.

[RalfDweflywex]

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[egexgfczc]

I never said that STF online activity got anyone in trouble, but if you think that the government doesn't mine information online [using key words, etc] then you're sadly naive.

[RalfDweflywex]

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[RalfDweflywex]

I think the main point I'm trying to make is that hobbiests are FAR more likely to get in trouble from ordering "illegal" plants internationally than for posting their photos on the internet, but practicing good discretion is always a good idea.

[Arr34ston]

You can get ratted out by a third party however. I know of at least a couple busts that went down that way. In general the more noise you make, the more likely you are to find trouble...not that that is surprising!