car trouble - dead cylinder - replace engine?
 

this is way off-topic, but maybe someone has had some experience.

i have a 1997 honda civic. recently the "check engine" light lit up and it would idle pretty hard, so i took it in to the dealer. they told me that the engine would need to be replaced.

i took the car to another shop for a second opinion, and they also said i need a new engine due to my #3 cylinder being "dead."

my question is this: can't the cylinder be fixed? why would i have to replace the entire engine?

the car has 157,000 miles on it, and might be worth $1,500.

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Wow thats kind of unheard of for a Honda with only 157,000 miles on it. I don't know what they mean by a dead cylinder. Being that the engine still idles I would assume the piston is still free to move up and down. I would have thought that it just wasn't putting a spark to that one cylinder. Have you tried changing your plugs, or taking the plug out and seeing if its putting out a spark at all? I really don't' know much about engines though. Hopefully somebody like GSXR Jack will chime in.

Edit:

I found this artical maybe it will help.

http://autos.yahoo.com/maintain/repa...ques090_3.html

Dead cylinder doesnt mean anything really.

They are going off the sound i guess as to strip the engine down and find out what the noise is will cost a fair amount of money.

$1500 car? Not worth doing anything with unless you really love it.

I think they're saying it because the amount of hours they would spend taking apart the engine and replacing the cylinder would be just as much as putting an engine in. I've head to take off the head off my brother's civic and replace valves and headgasket and all that crap. Since we didn't do it right the first time we did it 3 times all together.. pain in the ass.

If your car's body is in good shape and nothing else is wrong and you plan on keeping the car for a few years get the engine. 2 grand for a new engine now and you'll be good for a few years if the car's in good shape and you take care of it. Then again things could go wrong with the engine you get as well..

You can also buy a new car 5-6 grand but who knows what's wrong with it.

It's risky business..

that's what i was curious about, whether or not the cylinder could be repaired. i found it odd that repairing wasn't an option, but i suppose it would make more sense to replace the engine if the time and cost was the same.

i watched the second shop inspect the car. they started by listening to the engine and throttle. they then checked each spark plug with the engine running. when they pulled the 3rd plug the engine didn't do what it was supposed to do. when they checked the compression on the 3rd cylinder it was ~30 when it should have been 175.

they said the engine was running on 75% power (only 3 of the 4 cylinders) and that something could go really wrong if i continued to drive it.

the first quote for an engine replacement was $3000, the second $2600 and lastly an engine rebuild quote of $1050. the really lame thing is i just put $1200 into it in November: 150K service, new brakes, etc

Find a decent mechanic,you should be able to get it all done for around or under $1000.

You should be able to find the engine itself for around $500-$650,the work should be around $500. A rebuild shouldnt be $1000,I'd say look around until you find mechanic who isn't intersted in ripping you off.

You can either get it rebuilt. Shop around, you should be able to find it for pretty cheap somewhere. Even the "backyard" type mechanic shops are extremely good at what they do, and are super cheap.

Or, find yourself an engine on ebay or a scrap car for cheap, and drop that in.


After that tune up that you put into your car, I would get a new engine or rebuild instead of buying new if the car is in decent shape. If not, then that $1,500 goes to waste.

loss of compression ?

likely the bores worn or even possibly the cylinder is cracked.

but I dinno, the first symptom can sometimes be fixed with new piston rings and piston but the problem is vague

if you can hear piston slap then the bores worn take the head off ur self amd feel for a lip around where the piston is usuallay at tdc but ake sure the piston is a bdc by cranking the engine

The first thing that came into my head was a snapped con rod. would let the rest of the engine still work fine, would trash the block, and make it more practical to just put in a new engine.

^^^ http://discussworldissues.com/forums...ies/laugh1.gifhttp://discussworldissues.com/forums...ies/laugh1.gifhttp://discussworldissues.com/forums...ies/laugh1.gif

Two main reasons for low compression on a cylinder - worn rings or leaking valves. I presume they did a cylinder leakdown test to see where the leak was - I would suspect a valve*.
I'm not sure it those engines use a mechanical (solid)or hydraulic system - if the former, you could try adjusting them and seeing if that makes a difference.
Personally, if the engine isn't making any mechanical noises or using excessive amounts of oil, I'd probably keep driving it while putting money aside for a rebuild or replacement. Alternatively, you may wish to consider selling it as a runner for a grand or so and getting a new car.
Very hard to second guess faults, especially if the symptoms aren't that clear.
*At that mileage, I'd be very surprised if the rings were worn unless it has been severely abused

thing is if the valve guides are worn a simple remedy is to get a new cylinder head and the mechanics would say that.

sometimes you can replace the guides buts its one hell of a job and a new cylinder head is the quick fix.

also sometimes the cylinders can be replaced but once again that can be one hell of a job but most modern engines don't have removable cylinders as the bores are part of the block.

Ive also noticed that theres no shortage of jap engines because the Japanese have very stringent emissions rules and engines get replaced that don't have anything wrong with them apart from failing tests and are then sold to Europe and America as recons

so whilst they are two to a penny thats a possible reason for an engine swop because its most likely cheaper and quicker to do so

Yes I'm pretty sure it can be fixed. But the cost to get it professionally fixed it would be cheaper to just get a new engine, and if your car is worth around $1500 (which is what I paid for mine) your better of just getting a new (or second hand which will probably be better) engine or fix the problem yourself which will be even cheaper

I have an idling problem in my car and the other day I did some work on it, took about 7 hours. Checked the timing which was perfect, than we checked the tappets and every single one of them was not adjusted properly so we spent about 2 hours figuring out which is the proper adjustment cause the car manual didn't have the same engine as mine. Once we figured it out we spent about an hour or 2 adjusting the tappets which was easy but still a pain in the *ss. After that the idling problem was almost completely fixed. All I need to do is clean the injectors, get a new fuel filter and check the auto choke as I think its f*cked.

Cost me nothing, and if I got it professionally done would of cost me about $300-400

This is a great place to ask a question like that.
http://honda-acura.net/forums/index.php

Here's a test for you that will tell you if its rings, valves, or something else.

pull the spark plug on the affected cylinder, Measure the cranking compression and record it. Then put about a teaspoon of motor oil down the spark plug hole and measure the cranking pressure again. If the compression increases then your rings are worn and you need a rebuild.

If the compression stays similar to the pre oil test then your rings aren't the problem and its time to start looking at head gaskets, and valves. This does test wont' rule out the possibility of a cracked piston either. The only way to verify if you have a cracked piston is to pull the head and inspect the piston.

Had the timing belt ever been changed? If the timing belt lets go (or skips a tooth) the valves can come in contact with the pistons and cause some damage. If this is the case you would be lucky to get away with only a valve job.http://discussworldissues.com/forums...es/unsure1.gif

Thanks for all the replies. As I'm no car guru, what I'll do next is get a third opinion from a mechanic who doesn't know what the previous two recommended.

The car still drives ( I ran some errands in it Saturday), it just idles hard. I haven't driven it hard, or pushed it past 45MPH, but it's still a little scary not knowing how much it can really take.