[vicgirl]

For the record, my mom felt guilty when she learned how much I spent on the earrings (which she did without my prompting her to - she's just like that). Of course, in the world of Gribbler, mothers don't do that sort of thing - the value of a gift is directly proportional to its monetary value. (I was able to convince my mom that the cost of the earrings was no big deal, just in case anybody was worried about her feelings.)

[Janny2006]

YOu can't conceive of a philosophy other than Utilitarianism? Okay. I now know where to categorize you.

"I am morally bound to pick x over y even though y would probably make me happier and this doesn't affect anyone else"?

[Aleksis]

What is your rational alternative? "I arbitrarily choose goal x over goal y, for no reason in particular, now don't call me irrational! If you think goal y might have been a better choice you don't understand what competing goals are!"?

Presumptively goal x is chosen with goal z in mind, goal z being that person's inculcated beliefs about what's generally most valuable in life. Now, how was goal z chosen? From life experiences, from friends and family, from other goals. And where did those other goals come from? Still other goals/priorities, and it's turtles all the way down. Possibly, if you really dig into it, goal z winds up justifying goal z to some extent. But even if you take the time to precisely order your whole philosophy of life so that everything from the person you marry to the shoes you wear ultimately fits into one single end goal...how is that end goal "rationally" chosen?

[Angeheade]

Presumptively goal x is chosen with goal z in mind, goal z being that person's inculcated beliefs about what's generally most valuable in life. Now, how was goal z chosen? From life experiences, from friends and family, from other goals. And where did those other goals come from? Still other goals/priorities, and it's turtles all the way down. Possibly, if you really dig into it, goal z winds up justifying goal z to some extent. But even if you take the time to precisely order your whole philosophy of life so that everything from the person you marry to the shoes you wear ultimately fits into one single end goal...how is that end goal "rationally" chosen?

I don't see how you could rationally pick an "end goal". When it comes to intermediate goals that are a means to whatever your end goals are you can definitely pick them rationally, and I think physical fitness or eating a donut are intermediate goals, not end goals. And if someone tries to go on a diet, they are showing that physical fitness better suits their end goals than eating a donut. If they eat the donut anyway they have behaved irrationally.

[UitEz0Qo]

I guess, but my example made Loin think that I think people are robots so it must not be exactly what Loin was talking about.

[TSVIDeo]

I don't know what Loin would say about that, but I would say that you can't always find the choice that will lead to the greatest happiness, even given perfect information about the results of one's choices. Probably you don't disagree. Still, just to be clear, take the somewhat tired example of the post-feminism woman's dilemma: a career or children? Maybe she really likes her job, but she also really wants kids. Choosing both will mean less time with the young ones and less progress in the career, so no matter what she does she's sacrificing something. Nor can you really compare the two types of happiness, since they're so drastically different in kind. It boils down to different priorities, and in that sense there are a number of different, equally rational choices she can make.

[Sakkola]

I'm going to just assume that's a troll...

[stuntduood]

I reject any policy that does not directly lead to more tits in my face