Falling in Love... - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**Maserati** · 10-05-2010, 01:03 AM

yeah watching from a distance, it seems like the coalition is doing a good job. they've inherited a very difficult situation and seem to be making the best of it.

the one thing that's disappointing is the fact that the only electoral reform on the table is reducing the number of MPs and making constituencies equal in size (which i support) and the AV voting system (which i don't). proportional representation now

**Vikonbarius** · 10-05-2010, 01:29 AM

the one thing that's disappointing is the fact that the only electoral reform on the table is reducing the number of MPs and making constituencies equal in size (which i support) and the AV voting system (which i don't). proportional representation now

Unfortunately, you can only push a Tory so far, AV is about as far as you can get them to swallow what is something they are entirely ideologically opposed to. AV now (hopefully!), PR next.

**uneniaPhenits** · 10-05-2010, 01:54 AM

Wouldn't proportional representation just put a lot of power in the hands of backroom party bosses? It never struck me as a good idea.

**diplmixxxx** · 10-05-2010, 02:56 AM

AV

Cameron-Clegg

**rJohutozsfds** · 10-05-2010, 05:23 PM

I'd prefer AV to true PR.

**RG3rGWcA** · 10-05-2010, 05:26 PM

Good. The smaller parties are still almost universally extremist nutcases.

**amagmasia** · 10-05-2010, 05:38 PM

Under true PR, you'd never get any independents and you'd normally have party lists preventing you truly picking a candidate.

I like the idea of PR, but I'd want it done with appropriate safeguards to prevent the potential abuses. I also like AV.

**HoniSoniproca** · 10-05-2010, 05:41 PM

Even Ken Clarke is suggesting long standing Lib Dem policies on crime and punishment...

**ChrisGoldstein** · 10-06-2010, 01:13 AM

Ken Clarke is a Tory from a different dimension, he did not lose every nomination for party leader four times straight for no reason, coming second to such great politicians as William Hague and IDS

**VeniHemealm** · 10-06-2010, 12:14 PM

[Random musing that I haven't thought through and may have lots of problems] PR doesn't need to be election only at a national level. You could for example double the size of a constituency and have a first past the post system for half the seats (these MPs would represent your region), and have the remaining seats apportioned on a PR basis. So if you have 100 FPP seats won as 60:30:10 and the vote ratio was 40:35:25 the remaining 100 seats would be apportioned 20:40:40 such that representation is equivalent to PR in total.

**pepBarihepe** · 10-06-2010, 01:17 PM

The Welsh Assembly Government operates something like that. Not sure what the FPP/PR split is though.

**provigil** · 10-06-2010, 01:22 PM

I'm sorry, but much as I despise them, people who vote UKIP or BNP should be given a voice in a properly democratic society.

**u8MmZFmF** · 10-06-2010, 02:39 PM

I'm sorry, but much as I despise them, people who vote UKIP or BNP should be given a voice in a properly democratic society.

Wait, I'm trolling and you are being moderate? What happened.

**jagxj12** · 10-06-2010, 04:02 PM

Well...

I do think UKIP are extremist nutcases.
I do prefer Alternative Vote to full PR, 'cause of the reasons I mentioned about voting for an individual rather than a party list.

But I don't think extremist nutcases should be excluded from parliament just because one disagrees with their beliefs. Or that the system should be designed to exclude them. That bit was meant as a joke but when C0ckney took it seriously I decided to run with it.

**WhiliaStelt** · 10-06-2010, 04:19 PM

I know, I was shocked...

**ebonytipchik** · 10-07-2010, 02:14 AM

Is this about the utter hypocrisy of the top 10% earners suddenly up in arms because they're getting THEIR child benefits cut - oh the horror!

Not to mention the fact that it's the Daily HateMail that's leading the charge! Oh the ****ing hypocrisy of it all makes my blood boil!

I bet only a week ago they were all tittering away at the thought of the unwashed lazy feckless dole-scum poor losing their benefits - and quite right too!

C*nts!

**exchpaypaleg** · 10-07-2010, 04:07 AM

Is this about the utter hypocrisy of the top 10% earners suddenly up in arms because they're getting THEIR child benefits cut - oh the horror!

Not to mention the fact that it's the Daily HateMail that's leading the charge! Oh the ****ing hypocrisy of it all makes my blood boil!

I bet only a week ago they were all tittering away at the thought of the unwashed lazy feckless dole-scum poor losing their benefits - and quite right too!

C*nts!

Well hopefully the government gets some respect for cutting everyone. If the rich and the poor are both complaining, then it seems like they are being pretty fair about it.

**ehib8yPc** · 10-07-2010, 04:52 AM

AV > PR. PR is just a ****ing mess, gives the smaller parties far more power than their votes would suggest, merely because they'd have to be courted to make a majority.

**Indinehon** · 10-07-2010, 11:01 AM

Is this about the utter hypocrisy of the top 10% earners suddenly up in arms because they're getting THEIR child benefits cut - oh the horror!

Not to mention the fact that it's the Daily HateMail that's leading the charge! Oh the ****ing hypocrisy of it all makes my blood boil!

I bet only a week ago they were all tittering away at the thought of the unwashed lazy feckless dole-scum poor losing their benefits - and quite right too!

C*nts!

Most top rate tax payers I know think its a good idea. I don't think there is much of a movement here, loud voices maybe, but not a following.

**CiccoineFed** · 10-07-2010, 04:51 PM

It's odd, it's punishing stay at home mums of middle class families, which is normally a group the Tories want to support.

Women see child benefit is a very empowering benefit, it's being seen as one of many attacks on women in their proposals.

Oh and £3 a week married tax credit?

What a waste of money.

10-05-2010, 01:03 AM	#1
Maserati Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 436 Senior Member	Falling in Love... yeah watching from a distance, it seems like the coalition is doing a good job. they've inherited a very difficult situation and seem to be making the best of it. the one thing that's disappointing is the fact that the only electoral reform on the table is reducing the number of MPs and making constituencies equal in size (which i support) and the AV voting system (which i don't). proportional representation now Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-05-2010, 01:29 AM	#2
Vikonbarius Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 433 Senior Member	the one thing that's disappointing is the fact that the only electoral reform on the table is reducing the number of MPs and making constituencies equal in size (which i support) and the AV voting system (which i don't). proportional representation now Unfortunately, you can only push a Tory so far, AV is about as far as you can get them to swallow what is something they are entirely ideologically opposed to. AV now (hopefully!), PR next. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-05-2010, 01:54 AM	#3
uneniaPhenits Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 684 Senior Member	Wouldn't proportional representation just put a lot of power in the hands of backroom party bosses? It never struck me as a good idea. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-05-2010, 02:56 AM	#4
diplmixxxx Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 446 Senior Member	AV Cameron-Clegg Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-05-2010, 05:23 PM	#5
rJohutozsfds Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 515 Senior Member	I'd prefer AV to true PR. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-05-2010, 05:26 PM	#6
RG3rGWcA Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 499 Senior Member	Good. The smaller parties are still almost universally extremist nutcases. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-05-2010, 05:38 PM	#7
amagmasia Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 429 Senior Member	Under true PR, you'd never get any independents and you'd normally have party lists preventing you truly picking a candidate. I like the idea of PR, but I'd want it done with appropriate safeguards to prevent the potential abuses. I also like AV. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-05-2010, 05:41 PM	#8
HoniSoniproca Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 417 Senior Member	Even Ken Clarke is suggesting long standing Lib Dem policies on crime and punishment... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 01:13 AM	#9
ChrisGoldstein Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 520 Senior Member	Ken Clarke is a Tory from a different dimension, he did not lose every nomination for party leader four times straight for no reason, coming second to such great politicians as William Hague and IDS Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 12:14 PM	#10
VeniHemealm Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 468 Senior Member	[Random musing that I haven't thought through and may have lots of problems] PR doesn't need to be election only at a national level. You could for example double the size of a constituency and have a first past the post system for half the seats (these MPs would represent your region), and have the remaining seats apportioned on a PR basis. So if you have 100 FPP seats won as 60:30:10 and the vote ratio was 40:35:25 the remaining 100 seats would be apportioned 20:40:40 such that representation is equivalent to PR in total. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 01:17 PM	#11
pepBarihepe Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 487 Senior Member	The Welsh Assembly Government operates something like that. Not sure what the FPP/PR split is though. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 01:22 PM	#12
provigil Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 493 Senior Member	I'm sorry, but much as I despise them, people who vote UKIP or BNP should be given a voice in a properly democratic society. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 02:39 PM	#13
u8MmZFmF Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 427 Senior Member	I'm sorry, but much as I despise them, people who vote UKIP or BNP should be given a voice in a properly democratic society. Wait, I'm trolling and you are being moderate? What happened. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 04:02 PM	#14
jagxj12 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 609 Senior Member	Well... I do think UKIP are extremist nutcases. I do prefer Alternative Vote to full PR, 'cause of the reasons I mentioned about voting for an individual rather than a party list. But I don't think extremist nutcases should be excluded from parliament just because one disagrees with their beliefs. Or that the system should be designed to exclude them. That bit was meant as a joke but when C0ckney took it seriously I decided to run with it. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2010, 04:19 PM	#15
WhiliaStelt Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 482 Senior Member	I know, I was shocked... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

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10-07-2010, 02:14 AM	#16
ebonytipchik Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 450 Senior Member	Is this about the utter hypocrisy of the top 10% earners suddenly up in arms because they're getting THEIR child benefits cut - oh the horror! Not to mention the fact that it's the Daily HateMail that's leading the charge! Oh the ***ing hypocrisy of it all makes my blood boil! I bet only a week ago they were all tittering away at the thought of the unwashed lazy feckless dole-scum poor losing their benefits - and quite right too! Cnts! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2010, 04:07 AM	#17
exchpaypaleg Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 435 Senior Member	Is this about the utter hypocrisy of the top 10% earners suddenly up in arms because they're getting THEIR child benefits cut - oh the horror! Not to mention the fact that it's the Daily HateMail that's leading the charge! Oh the ***ing hypocrisy of it all makes my blood boil! I bet only a week ago they were all tittering away at the thought of the unwashed lazy feckless dole-scum poor losing their benefits - and quite right too! Cnts! Well hopefully the government gets some respect for cutting everyone. If the rich and the poor are both complaining, then it seems like they are being pretty fair about it. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2010, 04:52 AM	#18
ehib8yPc Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 564 Senior Member	AV > PR. PR is just a ****ing mess, gives the smaller parties far more power than their votes would suggest, merely because they'd have to be courted to make a majority. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2010, 11:01 AM	#19
Indinehon Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 377 Senior Member	Is this about the utter hypocrisy of the top 10% earners suddenly up in arms because they're getting THEIR child benefits cut - oh the horror! Not to mention the fact that it's the Daily HateMail that's leading the charge! Oh the ***ing hypocrisy of it all makes my blood boil! I bet only a week ago they were all tittering away at the thought of the unwashed lazy feckless dole-scum poor losing their benefits - and quite right too! Cnts! Most top rate tax payers I know think its a good idea. I don't think there is much of a movement here, loud voices maybe, but not a following. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2010, 04:51 PM	#20
CiccoineFed Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 536 Senior Member	It's odd, it's punishing stay at home mums of middle class families, which is normally a group the Tories want to support. Women see child benefit is a very empowering benefit, it's being seen as one of many attacks on women in their proposals. Oh and £3 a week married tax credit? What a waste of money. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote