[AssinHT]

To yet a long story short, a guy said he worked at supermarket where he has to sell alcohol and pork and other haram stuff etc and he knew it was wrong.So the four scholars present at the talk all highly regarded and from different Madhabs said you get paid whether or not you sell alcohol for Haram items you get paid for your services but all long as you do not consume these items Allah is All Merciful, All Forgiving and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

They also added that almost all jobs in the western world are haram from medicine to law and accountants due to riba, meddling in peoples business and the haram ailments used. And the only real Halal Jobs are to become a Imam/scholar or builsing your own business up from the ground up as long as you don't rip someone of while doing so.

So I would like your guys opinions on this.

[MikeGotTalentz]

My personal opinion is... it depends on if there are other jobs available. If there is absolutely no other way to provide a living for your family, then I would say it was okay. I'm not a scholar, but I'm sort of deriving it from this:

The Quran Al-Nahl 115

He has made unlawful for you only (carcass) that which dies of itself and blood and the flesh of swine and that on which the name of any other than Allah has been invoked. But he who is driven by necessity, being neither disobedient nor exceeding the limit, then surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.

[Honealals]

It is absolutely halal! He is not "spreading" alcoholism and Pork eating. If he leaves this job , there won't be an iota of difference in the Pork and Alcohol consumption from that store. So there is nothing wrong. If this brother is not yet satisfied with his job , keep doing it and if find a better job, go there. But don't leave this job as of now!

[www.forumsovetov.ru]

Ignore the post above (he seems to always put dunya over Islam) and also pay no heed to those that say that there is no halaal employment in the West. What an absurd statement to say that every job is linked with riba. It may be linked at a higher level but it does not in any way affect you. Similarly, accountants do not earn interest but they earn their wages for the work they do - Muslims should be more careful, though, when dealing with known institutions that deal in interest (e.g. banks). Even in medicine, there are halaal alternatives and if they aren't present, only then are the haraam medicines considered halaal. Whoever assumes that the default is haraam is naive.

On the other hand, the sale and transmission of alcohol are amongst the haraam acts mentioned in the ahadeeth.

[Honealals]

Ignore the post above (he seems to always put dunya over Islam) and also pay no heed to those that say that there is no halaal employment in the West. What an absurd statement to say that every job is linked with riba. It may be linked at a higher level but it does not in any way affect you. Similarly, accountants do not earn interest but they earn their wages for the work they do - Muslims should be more careful, though, when dealing with known institutions that deal in interest (e.g. banks). Even in medicine, there are halaal alternatives and if they aren't present, only then are the haraam medicines considered halaal. Whoever assumes that the default is haraam is naive.

On the other hand, the sale and transmission of alcohol are amongst the haraam acts mentioned in the ahadeeth.

haram medicine ? lol smh

[jimmy28]

To yet a long story short, a guy said he worked at supermarket where he has to sell alcohol and pork and other haram stuff etc and he knew it was wrong.So the four scholars present at the talk all highly regarded and from different Madhabs said you get paid whether or not you sell alcohol for Haram items you get paid for your services but all long as you do not consume these items Allah is All Merciful, All Forgiving and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

They also added that almost all jobs in the western world are haram from medicine to law and accountants due to riba, meddling in peoples business and the haram ailments used. And the only real Halal Jobs are to become a Imam/scholar or builsing your own business up from the ground up as long as you don't rip someone of while doing so.

So I would like your guys opinions on this.

In the Shafi madhab, if the income of a place of a mixed sources... Then a muslim can work there and believe that their incomes comes from the halal parts... The main product of a grocery store isn't alcohol or pork... It is food in general. So I wouldn't worry about little stuff like that... You are just making life difficult on you...

Here is a rule in fiqh... if everything is haram than everything become halal... Within reason of course....

and allah knows best...

[www.forumsovetov.ru]

haram medicine ? lol smh

So, there is no such thing as "haram"? Do you even have any idea of what you're laughing at?

Answer this question for me: Is medicine halaal if it contains pork and/or alcohol, especially when there is an alternative without pork and/or alcohol?

You can laugh at the Shari'ah all you want but the last laugh will be of those who are successful on the day of qiyaamah.

[PharmACT]

Brother, please also take the time to consult an Alim or other scholars on this issue.
And you can use the advice given on this forum in context.

[Honealals]

So, there is no such thing as "haram"? Do you even have any idea of what you're laughing at?

Answer this question for me: Is medicine halaal if it contains pork and/or alcohol, especially when there is an alternative without pork and/or alcohol?

You can laugh at the Shari'ah all you want but the last laugh will be of those who are successful on the day of qiyaamah.

Well I don't know of any medicine that contains alcohol in large amounts...Secondly , most people don't look at the "ingredients" of the medicine. Doctor prescribes them a medicine and they go and buy it from the store and take it. Secondly , medicine is medicine...it is suppose to treat you and thats it! No "halal" , "haram" in it. Please don't make deen THAT hard ...it sounds ridiculous !

[www.forumsovetov.ru]

Well I don't know of any medicine that contains alcohol in large amounts...Secondly , most people don't look at the "ingredients" of the medicine. Doctor prescribes them a medicine and they go and buy it from the store and take it. Secondly , medicine is medicine...it is suppose to treat you and thats it! No "halal" , "haram" in it. Please don't make deen THAT hard ...it sounds ridiculous !

What an idiotic statement. People get drunk on cough syrup because it contains alcohol (and it is one of the most widely abused MEDICINES there is). People who are conscious of their deen do look at the ingredients. Only those who don't care about their religion won't bat an eye when they are told that something may contain haraam or halaal ingredients. And once again, you contradict the Qur'an!
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِنَّمَا الْخَمْرُ وَالْمَيْسِرُ وَالْأَنصَابُ وَالْأَزْلَامُ رِجْسٌ مِّنْ عَمَلِ الشَّيْطَانِ فَاجْتَنِبُوهُ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ
إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ الشَّيْطَانُ أَن يُوقِعَ بَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةَ وَالْبَغْضَاءَ فِي الْخَمْرِ وَالْمَيْسِرِ وَيَصُدَّكُمْ عَن ذِكْرِ اللَّـهِ وَعَنِ الصَّلَاةِ ۖ فَهَلْ أَنتُم مُّنتَهُونَ

And medicines are either halaal or haraam. Do you just sit around passing fatawa based entirely on your desires?

There are many halaal alternatives present for many medications. There are alcohol-free cough syrups. There are medicines that can be found in liquid form or tablet form instead of capsule form. There are a variety of medicines available for almost any disease condition.

And once again, using your flimsy logic, anything can be called "medicine" and made halaal since everything we consume has an effect on the body. "Sadly", it does not work like that in Islam.

Since most medications are synthetically produced, it isn't even the active ingredient that comes into question, but the other ingredients that are found within the medications that either are used as solvents (e.g. alcohol) or for texture (e.g. gelatin in capsules) that make the medication haraam. So, the active ingredient of the drugs themselves is not haraam in most cases but since these drugs come packaged with haraam additives, the medication becomes haraam to consume. It is as if eating a piece of fish wrapped in bacon.

[Michmant]

Answer this question for me: Is medicine halaal if it contains pork and/or alcohol, especially when there is an alternative without pork and/or alcohol?.

I think it's pretty clear that when Allah forbade pork and alcohol, he was only referring to it as a food. If it's in medicine, then we don't consume the pork or alcohol for food purposes, but for medical purposes. That's different.

The Qur'an can be interpreted as such as well.

"Say: I find not in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it unless it be...the flesh of swine" (Qur'an 6:145)

"He hath forbidden for you only...the flesh of swine...But if one is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience nor transgressing, then Allah is indeed Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful" (Qur'an 16:115)

We can argue that...

#1: Consuming pork or alcohol for medical reasons only does not constitute "eating" or "wishing to eat" it unless one is only taking that medicine to somehow "trick" Allah. But if one is consuming the medicine simply for medical purposes, then that is different.

#2: Consuming pork or alcohol for medical reasons can constitute being "forced by necessity", as medicine is a necessity.

So, it seems that if one is given the option between 2 equally-performing medicines in which one contains pork/alcohol and the other doesn't, then choosing the pork/alcohol one might be considered a transgression. But if one is given the option of 1 medicine that works very well and contains pork/alcohol and 1 medicine that doesn't work nearly as well and doesn't contain pork/alcohol, then taking the pork/alcohol medication may count as being "forced by necessity" and not count as "wishing to eat."

Furthermore, we are told countless times in Hadith and Qur'an that Allah does not wish to place us under unnecessary hardship.

Allahu `alaam, as this is only my interpretation and I'm no sheikh.

[www.forumsovetov.ru]

I think it's pretty clear that when Allah forbade pork and alcohol, he was only referring to it as a food. If it's in medicine, then we don't consume the pork or alcohol for food purposes, but for medical purposes. That's different.

The Qur'an can be interpreted as such as well.

"Say: I find not in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it unless it be...the flesh of swine" (Qur'an 6:145)

"He hath forbidden for you only...the flesh of swine...But if one is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience nor transgressing, then Allah is indeed Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful" (Qur'an 16:115)

We can argue that...

#1: Consuming pork or alcohol for medical reasons only does not constitute "eating" or "wishing to eat" it unless one is only taking that medicine to somehow "trick" Allah. But if one is consuming the medicine simply for medical purposes, then that is different.

#2: Consuming pork or alcohol for medical reasons can constitute being "forced by necessity", as medicine is a necessity.

So, it seems that if one is given the option between 2 equally-performing medicines in which one contains pork/alcohol and the other doesn't, then choosing the pork/alcohol one might be considered a transgression. But if one is given the option of 1 medicine that works very well and contains pork/alcohol and 1 medicine that doesn't work nearly as well and doesn't contain pork/alcohol, then taking the pork/alcohol medication may count as being "forced by necessity" and not count as "wishing to eat."

Furthermore, we are told countless times in Hadith and Qur'an that Allah does not wish to place us under unnecessary hardship.

Allahu `alaam, as this is only my interpretation and I'm no sheikh.

And this is why we run into problems when we apply our 'aqal to these issues.

As I mentioned, anything can be called "medicine" since everything can be shown to have some sort of positive effect on our body - even things that we consider as poisons. You have to prove that taking medication is not the same as consumption because at even the basic physiological level, medication falls under the category of food. Even in the USA and many other countries, the agency that governs food safety also governs drug safety. The way medicines are absorbed by the body is the same way food is absorbed.

Furthermore - I don't know why this point isn't getting through - there are many halaal alternatives available for all the common medications we take. There are very few drugs whose halaal alternatives aren't available, such as heparin, which is derived from pork (but can be derived from cows, but it is usually pork and difficult to tell what the source is). Of course, every necessary drug becomes halaal when one's life is in danger and no alternative is available, but when there are, then there is no excuse for consuming haraam medicines.

You have to define what unnecessary hardship is, as well. For some people, not being able to eat meat is "unnecessary hardship" and they'll resort to eating haraam meats instead of switching to a vegetarian or seafood diet until they can get halaal meats. For others like Auzer, there is no haraam medicine, so if you cannot drink that codeine-based cough syrup when there are alcohol free cough syrups available, it is still an unnecessary hardship to make the switch.

[Honealals]

What an idiotic statement. People get drunk on cough syrup because it contains alcohol (and it is one of the most widely abused MEDICINES there is). People who are conscious of their deen do look at the ingredients. Only those who don't care about their religion won't bat an eye when they are told that something may contain haraam or halaal ingredients. And once again, you contradict the Qur'an!
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِنَّمَا الْخَمْرُ وَالْمَيْسِرُ وَالْأَنصَابُ وَالْأَزْلَامُ رِجْسٌ مِّنْ عَمَلِ الشَّيْطَانِ فَاجْتَنِبُوهُ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ
إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ الشَّيْطَانُ أَن يُوقِعَ بَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةَ وَالْبَغْضَاءَ فِي الْخَمْرِ وَالْمَيْسِرِ وَيَصُدَّكُمْ عَن ذِكْرِ اللَّـهِ وَعَنِ الصَّلَاةِ ۖ فَهَلْ أَنتُم مُّنتَهُونَ

And medicines are either halaal or haraam. Do you just sit around passing fatawa based entirely on your desires?

There are many halaal alternatives present for many medications. There are alcohol-free cough syrups. There are medicines that can be found in liquid form or tablet form instead of capsule form. There are a variety of medicines available for almost any disease condition.

And once again, using your flimsy logic, anything can be called "medicine" and made halaal since everything we consume has an effect on the body. "Sadly", it does not work like that in Islam.

Since most medications are synthetically produced, it isn't even the active ingredient that comes into question, but the other ingredients that are found within the medications that either are used as solvents (e.g. alcohol) or for texture (e.g. gelatin in capsules) that make the medication haraam. So, the active ingredient of the drugs themselves is not haraam in most cases but since these drugs come packaged with haraam additives, the medication becomes haraam to consume. It is as if eating a piece of fish wrapped in bacon.

lol .... people generally don't look at the "ingredients" of their medicine. Doctor prescribed them , they'll take it. Simple.

It has nothing to do with "religiosity" of the people. Most people's thought won't even go there. They won't think "Hey , does this medicine contain alcohol or pork"?

Go to doctor and when he gives you a medicine...ask him...is it "halal medicine" ? Only one looking like an idiot would be you ......

[Heacechig]

Well I don't know of any medicine that contains alcohol in large amounts...Secondly , most people don't look at the "ingredients" of the medicine. Doctor prescribes them a medicine and they go and buy it from the store and take it. Secondly , medicine is medicine...it is suppose to treat you and thats it! No "halal" , "haram" in it. Please don't make deen THAT hard ...it sounds ridiculous !

Brother I'm not sure how old you are (I would assume you're fairly young, but forgive me if that's not the case), and I'm most definitely not sure why you're going around passing fatwas in different threads. I called you on it in a different thread also.

Like some others said, if a medicine contains pork for example, it is 100% haram, as the Prophet said not to ingest even a single hair of a pig. I heard this fatwa being given live to a brother in a Masjid who was asking a Mufti (who was visiting from overseas) that he is diabetic and the insulin his doctor wants to give him contains pig product so if he is allowed to take it, and the mufti told him it would not be allowed and to seek alternate means. That's just one example of how medicine can be haram. Of course Islam accommodates all types of situations and circumstances and it is extremely rare (if not impossible) where someone would be asked to stay away from something if that was the only choice they had and their life depended on it. One is allowed to eat pork (just enough to keep them from dying) if they are in the middle of nowhere, about to die of starvation, and the only thing around them to eat is pig. There are countless other examples like that where the impermissible becomes permissible, based on extraordinary circumstances, so deen is not as "hard" or "ridiculous" as you say. That's why we have scholars who we need to consult in these matters and not give our own fatwas like you are. May Allah protect us all, Ameen.

In any case, once again, I am not sure why you are going around passing fatwas in different threads, but I would humbly request you to control yourself. If you don't believe in something or it doesn't suit your taste or style, that's fine, but don't try to contaminate it for everyone else as well.

May Allah show us all the right path. Ameen. Do forgive me if I said something wrong.

[Honealals]

Brother I'm not sure how old you are (I would assume you're fairly young, but forgive me if that's not the case), and I'm most definitely not sure why you're going around passing fatwas in different threads. I called you on it in a different thread also.

Well brother it depends. What is "fairly" young here? 17? 23? 31? All of these ages are fairly young. What is your guess/estimate of my age? Secondly , I am not passing Fatwas...just giving my own opinions. I never said that I am a Shaiykh and that my statement must be taken as "Fatwaas"...but what my aqaal says , I write it.

[fotodemujerahldesnugdo]

lol .... people generally don't look at the "ingredients" of their medicine. Doctor prescribed them , they'll take it. Simple.

It has nothing to do with "religiosity" of the people. Most people's thought won't even go there. They won't think "Hey , does this medicine contain alcohol or pork"?

Go to doctor and when he gives you a medicine...ask him...is it "halal medicine" ? Only one looking like an idiot would be you ......

There are many people who are concerned about such things. Search this very forum and you will find threads on the subject.

Do not think everyone is as unconcerned as you are.

[www.forumsovetov.ru]

lol .... people generally don't look at the "ingredients" of their medicine. Doctor prescribed them , they'll take it. Simple.

It has nothing to do with "religiosity" of the people. Most people's thought won't even go there. They won't think "Hey , does this medicine contain alcohol or pork"?

Go to doctor and when he gives you a medicine...ask him...is it "halal medicine" ? Only one looking like an idiot would be you ......

In the sight of Allah , the "only one looking like an idiot" would be the person who doesn't bother to ask. Ignorance, especially the willful ignorance you're suggesting, doesn't hold up in our courts. What makes you think it will hold up in the court of Allah where everything will be laid bare?

Since I'm in the medical field myself, I do know a bit about the sources of the more common medicines and where they're derived from. As I've mentioned before, the actual active ingredients tend to be synthetic and the coating/solvent tend to be made of non-active ingredients, such as gelatin or alcohol, which would make them haraam. If a halaal alternative is available, it is obligatory to use that instead of the haraam "option".

[Heacechig]

but what my aqaal says , I write it.

And therein lies a great danger. As the saying goes in English; "think before you speak". That saying applies even more so in Islam and to a Muslim than it does to anyone else.

SCHOLARS who spend their entire lives studying one specific branch of the deen are still often apprehensive to comment on many things... they often tell you "oh brother I gotta research that a little bit and get back to you" for things which are seemingly so 'simple' especially for people of their caliber. Why? Because they don't want to say the wrong thing and set off a chain reaction for which they will be held accountable.

For example, what if I'm a Muslim who goes online trying to see if it's permissible for me to take a certain medicine, because it contains pork, alcohol, or some other weird ingredient which I never heard of. So I go and Google away and I come across this thread on SF, where I skim over all the posts because they seem irrelevant, but then your post quoted below catches my eye:

Well I don't know of any medicine that contains alcohol in large amounts...Secondly , most people don't look at the "ingredients" of the medicine. Doctor prescribes them a medicine and they go and buy it from the store and take it. Secondly , medicine is medicine...it is suppose to treat you and thats it! No "halal" , "haram" in it. Please don't make deen THAT hard ...it sounds ridiculous ! Keep in mind that I'm a Muslim who lives in the middle of nowhere, I don't have access to scholars, nor was I ever 'taught' to always seek answers from scholars and take whatever anyone else says with a grain of salt. I read your post and go "oh ok, well that makes sense, so I should be fine taking this medicine then". I go and start taking this medicine. I then teach my friends, family, kids, etc, the same 'fatwa'. Any time they have a question about the permissibility of all these weird medications... I jump up and say "oh don't worry, I researched this issue and it's fine, you can take it because medicine is medicine, it is supposed to treat you and that's it, No "halal" or "haram" in it." I even start 'stretching' this research into other areas, such as food etc, and start telling people "yeah yeah don't worry, I researched it online, trust me you can eat this", etc. I take your comment "Please don't make deen THAT hard ...it sounds ridiculous !" and start applying it to many areas of my life. I start neglecting salat, stop reading Quran, start going to clubs, drinking, smoking... you name it... why? Because every time I'm about to do something which I shouldn't do, your quote flashes in mind and shaytaan tells me "it's ok go ahead" so I go ahead and do it. If you think that sounds extreme, then think again.

Now I have several people committing haram acts, who are in turn teaching their families, friends, and kids; who are in turn teaching more people, and the vicious cycle continues (for generations and generations). It all started from the one post I read on SF by you. Now you're collecting tons upon tons of sin into your account, without even knowing it. You could have prevented it simply by watching what you're saying. Same goes towards what you were saying in the other thread (the one about masturbation), that "stop listening to music, stop watching tv, etc etc" are not "real solutions" and what not. What if someone reads that and it makes sense to them, so they let themselves loose and become addicted to music, movies, and all the filthy 'entertainment' which is out there today? They stop making salat, become involved in huge sins, etc etc, all because of what you said in your post. How would you feel about that and how will you answer to that in the hereafter? That's not specific to you but even more so to me and others as well I'm sure, because we all say things, even if unintentionally, which can give people completely wrong ideas. May Allah protect us all, Ameen.

Though I am a nobody myself who knows nothing so forgive me if whatever I'm saying is coming across as arrogant or something, but it's still my responsibility to try to educate you on this. Don't say things in regards to the deen if you don't 100% know what you're talking about, and even then be extremely careful as far as the words you use, what you say, and how you say it. Leave it to the scholars. This is one area where it is most definitely better to be safe than sorry. Especially on the internet, whatever you post can stay there for years and years, possibly decades and even more, so we better be 1000% utterly careful to make sure no one ends up doing the wrong thing or getting the wrong idea because of something we posted.

Lastly, I would suggest for you (and anyone) to watch this video by Nouman Ali Khan called "Intellectual Humility - A Message for Facebook Sheikhs" (less than 10 min long).

I won't debate this back and forth with you so this will probably be my last post to you regarding this matter. You can take it for what it's worth or laugh it off. Please forgive me if I said anything wrong and ask Allah to forgive me as well.

[Kneefrenolf]

lol .... people generally don't look at the "ingredients" of their medicine. Doctor prescribed them , they'll take it. Simple.

It has nothing to do with "religiosity" of the people. Most people's thought won't even go there. They won't think "Hey , does this medicine contain alcohol or pork"?

Go to doctor and when he gives you a medicine...ask him...is it "halal medicine" ? Only one looking like an idiot would be you ......

and your Prophet says,


12 - (1984) حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى، وَمُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بَشَّارٍ، وَاللَّفْظُ لِابْنِ الْمُثَنَّى، قَالَا: حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ سِمَاكِ بْنِ حَرْبٍ، عَنْ عَلْقَمَةَ بْنِ وَائِلٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ وَائِلٍ الْحَضْرَمِيِّ، أَنَّ طَارِقَ بْنَ سُوَيْدٍ الْجُعْفِيَّ، سَأَلَ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ عَنِ الْخَمْرِ، فَنَهَاهُ - أَوْ كَرِهَ - أَنْ يَصْنَعَهَا، فَقَالَ: إِنَّمَا أَصْنَعُهَا لِلدَّوَاءِ، فَقَالَ: «إِنَّهُ لَيْسَ بِدَوَاءٍ، وَلَكِنَّهُ دَاءٌ»
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